261 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Naltair wrote...

I think there is a case where both the critics and the fans can both be right and wrong.

This is the problem with feedback from the masses, it can be conflicted.

Besides, even most of the fans agree that 99.99% of the the game DESERVES the stellar ratings but the ending..... The endings...well, we'll see. I simply hope that they will NOT add "Happily ever after" nonsense.

Modifié par Persephone, 29 mars 2012 - 06:57 .

[turian_rage]

That's really a shame, to be honest. Seeing the sales for this game drop is really more of a bittersweet ending than the one they came up with. On the one hand, it definitely shows BioWare that people are pissed off about the ending of their game, and it strikes a sense of urgency. At the same time, though, it may in fact slow down the production of the DLC content that we want, and it can screw the fans over in the end.

[ZodiEmish]

Naltair wrote...

ZodiEmish wrote...
 First off. sorry about missing your link. multi tasking is a pain. ( try posting on the BSN, and playing skyrim at the same time.. Yeah I am just that awesome.  o-Z-<  ) that ofcouse was a job..

But I am going to have to stick by the same thing I said. even for the link in the Opening Post. You have to take these numbers with a grain of salt. The link you linked me has no source. it is not an official press release from Bioware or EA, and so it has to be taken as a guess or and estimate.  Before anything can be taken as fact you need to know how they get their numbers. It's important for info to be a fact, and not an estimate if your going to state it as a fact.

So while that is a good article, and I hope it is true too. I don't want mass effect 3 to fail. I want it to do go, and I want them to fix the ending. But until I know their sources, or if Bioware comes out and says that it is true. It has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Of course information without context and sources is not overly compelling but the evidence is there to support the claim that ME3 is not tanking.

Basically all evidence points to the conclusion that the game is selling as well as a game of it's type should be selling.  It might be down some due to word of mouth, but it seems to be selling faster than it's predecessors.

Well I agree.. the game isn't tanking. It is taking some hits but isn't tanking. the only thing I could see taking bigger hits would be DLC. but not game sales themselves.

but evidance that isn't accurate is hardly evidance at all. Were all speculating on this. To post something as a fact is taking a shot in the dark, and I give you praise for posting a link. sorry I missed it, but it shows that your looking for truth to support your arguement.

But if I may point out. Both you and the OP posted info from the same website, and your article is from the 14th, and his is from the 17th. so it is newer. But according to the OP link it sold 1.97 Million copies world wide. While yours says 1.85 million. I am not sure how people are getting 1.85 million in the US alone when the newer data contridicts the 1.85 million from the 14th. ( and I am not saying your mixing it up. I am saying some people are mixing it up )

But that is better then out right saying that 3 million copies were sold, and having no proof..

anyway I should go back to skyrim... Me gots some dragons to kill. * grabs war hammer. *

[cynicalandbored]

It's natural. We have no real data to back why people don't buy it as much now. It's too early.

[txgoldrush]

cyric085 wrote...

good very good

hope their next project fails so hard that ea will just bury them alive

god i miss the old bioware, new bioware just needs to die already

old bioware had cliche storytelling, one or two dimensional characters used as talking codexes, recycled formulas, terrible combat.....

this board is so stupid...really it is....

Could the barrier to newcomers, the save import feature, keep newer players from, IDK, buying the game???? Therefore flash in the pan sales for longtime fans.

This has more to deal with hte sales than its ending.

[Naltair]

ZodiEmish wrote...
but evidance that isn't accurate is hardly evidance at all. Were all speculating on this. To post something as a fact is taking a shot in the dark, and I give you praise for posting a link. sorry I missed it, but it shows that your looking for truth to support your arguement.

Oh of course my argument is simply that the data provided does not support that ME3 is tanking, that is it.  I can't say that it is a qualified success but the information we do have, albeit perhaps an estimation, is insurmountably better than I feel like it is selling well or poorly.

VGChartz may not be the most reliable tool, but it is a tool we can utilize and then extrapolate to make sound educated guesses on the health of the industry and the sells of a property.  Our speculation is not without merit, we are not just shooting in the dark, we have a target, now how close that target is to reality may be up for contention but we are not just guessing wildly.

The numbers that VGChartz is pulling are probably pretty close to reality.

Anyway I agree that it is too early to make a real judgement without sound verifiable numbers but we can easily see that any claims that the game is headed for financial disaster are simply claims of doom sayers and disatsified fans grasping at straws to make them feel right.  

Modifié par Naltair, 29 mars 2012 - 07:11 .

[FedericoV]

Captain Arty wrote...

I'll even defend Bioware a little further.  I think they're talented geeks like us that just made a really bad artistic and production choice. They have the opportunity to fix it, and I hope they will.

I AM worried that they're living in denial, that they are clinging to the delusion that their ending was good and that the fans are just stupid kids.  They constantly cite 75 perfect critic scores in defense, but most of those critics didn't
finish the game, and some of them have reversed or pulled their reviews after finishing it.

I mostly agree with your point. I mean, the ending suck and it was a bad call to try for something metaphisical and grand when they clearly haven't the resources (time & budget) to do it right. If they just keep it simple and do some fan service, no one would have complained and the game would have been remembered as a masterpiece (and it still deserve that place since 90% of ME3 is a  brilliant game).

I'm in the camp who believes that the issue is not in the ending in itself but the execution: yes, the idea is not that great and I do not like it a lot. But at the end is not worst than many other endings I've seen in videogames and other kind of fiction. It just completely miss the proper smoke and mirror to be believed and digested. But there are very few videogames endings that could survive the kind of in depth criticism that we have seen in the forums in these
weeks. So, it's mostly a problem of presentation that can (and probably will) be fixed. They do not live in denial: they simply missed the proper resources to do it right and the fact that one of the doctor have talked about that issue promising corrections, speak for itself.

Back on topic: it's hard to argue that the ending are influencing sales in a meaningfull way when only a very tiny fraction of gamers finish the games they buy. If I remember correctly, only 30% of legit customers actually finished ME2 according to Bioware's metrics and we are talking of a percentage that take even multiple playthroughs in to
consideration. That's a fact and not an extrapolation like VGchartz.

Btw, that's the main reason why videgoame ending sucks: devs allocate more resources to the parts of the game that will be experienced by more players. The ending is the last priority. That's why we will see more and more ending DLCs sadly. I hope that the retake movement will change the vision of the industry on that topic.

Modifié par FedericoV, 29 mars 2012 - 07:14 .

[Murkman4683]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

good very good

hope their next project fails so hard that ea will just bury them alive

god i miss the old bioware, new bioware just needs to die already

Pathetic.

This is the worst kind of BSN user, thanks for trolling buddy, hope you are happy doing what you do.

[Kanon777]

Murkman4683 wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

cyric085 wrote...

good very good

hope their next project fails so hard that ea will just bury them alive

god i miss the old bioware, new bioware just needs to die already

Pathetic.

This is the worst kind of BSN user, thanks for trolling buddy, hope you are happy doing what you do.

Are you talking about AtreiyaN7 or cyric085  

[ahandsomeshark]

Are people really arguing about numbers that will be easily verified in a few weeks/months?

[hex23]

Whether or not these sales figures are accurate is kinda irrelevant. The game is 50% off at Wal-Mart....that should be a lot more telling than any NPD or VGChartz sales stats:

trendygamers.com/2012/03/28/mass-effect-3-50-wal-mart/

The same 4-5 guys pop up in every thread claiming we're the "vocal minority". I wonder how they'll spin this.

[Helmschmied]

(and it still deserve that place since 90% of ME3 is a brilliant game)

I wouldn't go that far. The game had its moments, and I had fun with it, but overall, there was a lot to complain about, like the enemies (Not that much variation, basically just Cerberus, the Reapers and the Geth, no mercenaries, not even wildlife), occasional bad writing, and, the big one, the diminished roleplaying-aspect - most of the dialogue played out like a cutscene.

ME3 is definitely not brilliant. It's a relatively good game, nothing more.

[ahandsomeshark]

Naltair wrote...

Does Origin share their retail numbers?

I don't know but EA is a public company so most of their numbers can be found with enough searching. You may not find Origin specifically but you can find their quarterly earnings/losses and value changes.

[ahandsomeshark]

Also I really don't see how people can think the game is 99% perfect relative to ME2 and ME1.

Modifié par ahandsomeshark, 29 mars 2012 - 07:28 .

[Peer of the Empire]

It's the get rich quick mentality.  It doesn't matter how strong word of mouth is, they run off with the money, LOL!

(how their reputation is ruined, the franchise destroyed, the productive fellows lives wasted, etc)

[Persephone]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Also I really don't see how people can think the game is 99% perfect relative to ME2 and ME1.

I can. Esp. compared to those. (Me1 had ONE ending. In two colors btw...) But I love the trilogy as a whole.

[Helmschmied]

I prefer one or two well-made endings over three endings which are basically the same as well as a colossal mess.

[FedericoV]

Helmschmied wrote...

(and it still deserve that place since 90% of ME3 is a brilliant game)

I wouldn't go that far. The game had its moments, and I had fun with it, but overall, there was a lot to complain about, like the enemies (Not that much variation, basically just Cerberus, the Reapers and the Geth, no mercenaries, not even wildlife), occasional bad writing, and, the big one, the diminished roleplaying-aspect - most of the dialogue played out like a cutscene.

ME3 is definitely not brilliant. It's a relatively good game, nothing more.

That's subjective, I guess. Consider that I'm not a diehard fan of the franchise. I'm more in to fantasy stuff, then I feell more DA over ME. I even prefer DA lead writer over ME ones. And I do not like shooter a lot, so for me what mattered most was the story resolution and the Tuchanka/Rannoch sequence alone make me say that the game is brilliant. Mordin's death is one of the most beautifull sequence in the history of gaming imho. Not to talk about the adventure in Geth consensus wich I loved deeply.

So, I'm just speaking for what I was expecting and untill the ending sequences the game was doing a lot more things right than wrong. It's hard to find a recent AAA game that's better than ME3 in the last years. Only a couple come to my mind.

Btw, consider that in my opinion the quality drop does not begin with Marauder Shields but at the Cerberus base mission (the damned Citadel abducted off screen? WTF!).

[jumpingkaede]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Also I really don't see how people can think the game is 99% perfect relative to ME2 and ME1.

Even with a better ending it's still worse than ME2 for me.

Better characters + less clunky interface (ME2) > better combat (ME3).

Combat is better in ME3 though; especially since there are plenty of thermal clips.  But the lack of character development interaction really sucked.  Yes, I liked the dialogues between squad members. 

But remember when you FIRST talked to Kaiden on the Normandy?  You could ask him 5+ questions about his past, investigate why he's on the Normandy, tell him to stow it and be professional or chillax and be Bros... where is that in ME3?

Nowhere.

I know more about Jacob than I learned about any of the squad members in ME3.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 29 mars 2012 - 07:40 .

[Helmschmied]

I know more about Jacob than I learned about any of the squad members in ME3.

Well, to be fair, you already knew them, apart from Beefcake McSteroids and Javik. So, there wouldn't have been that much to talk about concerning their past. And the scenes that are in the game are great, I think. Shooting bottles with Garrus and all. There's just way too few of them.

[ahandsomeshark]

jumpingkaede wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Also I really don't see how people can think the game is 99% perfect relative to ME2 and ME1.

Even with a better ending it's still worse than ME2 for me.

Better characters + less clunky interface (ME2) > better combat (ME3).

Combat is better in ME3 though; especially since there are plenty of thermal clips.  But the lack of character development interaction really sucked.  Yes, I liked the dialogues between squad members. 

But remember when you FIRST talked to Kaiden on the Normandy?  You could ask him 5+ questions about his past, investigate why he's on the Normandy, tell him to stow it and be professional or chillax and be Bros... where is that in ME3?

Nowhere.

I know more about Jacob than I learned about any of the squad members in ME3.

Yeah I was playing ME1 yesterday and basically floored at how much dialogue there is in each encounter. And not just with squad mates but with NPC's. Like the receptionist at the consort, or Dr. Michel, or Officer Lang. There were just tons of NPC's you could interact with all over.

[jumpingkaede]

Helmschmied wrote...

I know more about Jacob than I learned about any of the squad members in ME3.

Well, to be fair, you already knew them, apart from Beefcake McSteroids and Javik. So, there wouldn't have been that much to talk about concerning their past. And the scenes that are in the game are great, I think. Shooting bottles with Garrus and all. There's just way too few of them.

Yes, too few and too short.   Also correct with Vega.  Mostly Vega, Jahvik was handled alright.  

Still would've liked more input in dialogue wheels like in ME1.  For example, after Tuchanka, talking with Garrus... he talks a lot but AT you instead of WITH you.   I wanted the option to ask what he would've done and then para/renegade him for it, ask whether the Turians had done something similar anywhere else, whether he thinks the Krogan can be placated afterward, etc.  Maybe he thanks you for saving Victus or remarks about Victus' death (I don't remember if he does or not, just thinking of conversation examples).  

Even the illusion of choice would be welcome there.  Auto dialogue was the worst part of ME3.

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Yeah I was playing ME1 yesterday and basically floored at how much dialogue there is in each encounter. And not just with squad mates but with NPC's. Like the receptionist at the consort, or Dr. Michel, or Officer Lang. There were just tons of NPC's you could interact with all over.

Right!  NPCs in ME3 just talk AT you.  You're walking by and they something at or near you.  There's almost no back and forth.

Another example is that "couple" that was planning genetic modification on their child?  In ME1 you can ask about their background, what the odds are of side effects, pros/cons, and then you para/renegade them.  In ME2 and ME3 it's just... them talking.  

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 29 mars 2012 - 07:54 .

[Fingertrip]

Or you know.

Everyone that wanted the game more or less has it this stage.

It's not that much different from copies sold from albums/movies/discs etc, so these figures are really that not big of a deal. :-)

[die-yng]

hex23 wrote...

Whether or not these sales figures are accurate is kinda irrelevant. The game is 50% off at Wal-Mart....that should be a lot more telling than any NPD or VGChartz sales stats:

trendygamers.com/2012/03/28/mass-effect-3-50-wal-mart/

The same 4-5 guys pop up in every thread claiming we're the "vocal minority". I wonder how they'll spin this.

I'd say there are about 20-25 but otherwise you are right, it's always the same few people, who desperately try to appear like they are this huge crowd who loves the ending.


And you know, ever since I read about EA paying hundreds of viral marketers to post on message boards in their defense, I keep wondering...

Modifié par die-yng, 29 mars 2012 - 10:22 .

[Aznable Char]

added the new week 4 figures plus the amazon blurb from the PR thread .