1334 réponses à ce sujet

[Divitiacus]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Divitiacus wrote...
You're right. And what is your point? Within those are very well articulated complaints. People shorthand them after that. The COMPANY should not then respond to the lowest common denominator, but the cause of the complaints, which as I said, have been rather well defined. When the company's spokespeople respond to strawmen, that's a problem. At least a few fans have not used strawmen, the official response should be to that, not a deflection.

My point is that they're not well articulated complaints.  What people call "space magic" is no more magical than anything else in the game, from the Mass Relays to the Dragon Teeth.  What people call the "Starchild" is really just an AI (and possibly organic) construct that chose to form itself in an image that would be relevant to Shepard's mind, and its role in the story is no different than Vigil's was, or Vendetta, or even Soverign.  Calling the endings "red, blue, or green" completely ignores the vastly different effects each one of those endings has, and the implications for the future in them. 

BTW you do know "Starchild" is Mac Walters' actual name for the character in development notes, right?

Huh, no I didn't know that.  Doesn't change the fact that it's been adapted into a strawman.

You're ignoring the fact that decisions made in the game have no impact on A B or C regardless of the far flung impact that in the end all end up with stargazing grampa, which was promised by the company. Also, regardless of the impacts, they are all A B and C choices made in what is basically a vacuum at that point, which is exactly what was NOT promised. There are dozens of extremely well written articles on the Internet you can read on this if you have any interest in actually understanding the root problems.

[The Angry One]

Blackmind1 wrote...

Some have been civil, most haven't. I find "the Angry One" mostly pops up during uncivil arguments. One of those "fuel to the fire" kind of people, it seems.

I find myself often being accused of this by people who perpetrate it themselves, ye of the anti-Bethesda rant.

[WizenSlinky0]

Too much bickering not enough world conquering.

[Helmschmied]

It's brought into question whether video games as an art should be subject to this kind of malleability.

Well, this argument is invalid. Mass Effect 3 isn't a piece of art, it's a product.

[Geneaux486]

But you cannot argue that they make any sense.

Of course you can. Easily. I have, others have, and yes, they have withstood scrutiny from you and everyone else.

[Plasma Prestige]

Stanley Woo wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Ok but why exactly have you done the ending in the worst possible way? The endings of the prequels were great. Why the drastical change? I can't think about it without DA2 comming to mind.

I disagree that the ending was done "in the worst possible way." After all, there have been positive comments and it has spawned a lot of great discussion, theories, and criticism. A "worst possible" ending would not have had that kind of power.

Why is it so hard for you to stick to a successful formula? Is it a sort of contest? I don't get it.

If you have a formula to guarantee that everyone will like waht you've done, then you have a billion-dollar idea that every game developer would love to buy from you. But there are no guarantees when you're talking about business or creative ventures. At best, you can go with things that generally wort or things that many people would like most of the time. You can get a basic idea of the difficulty in coming up with a guaranteed winning idea by seeing the spectrum of emotions and threads posted in this very forum. Even in this thread there are varied responses and feelings about the ending.

Mordin's death stirred up a lot of discussion. Not so much speculation, but discussion on the emotional impact it had on the players. That's a success story. What isn't a success story is calling outrage by the fans to the ending a sure sign that the ending did something correct. People yell and scream about Modern Warfare not being great or whatnot, but I haven't seen Infinity Ward come out and blatantly say that their game is clearly successful because people hate it.

This is the issue I have. I feel like everyone at Bioware is looking at this from a narrow slit. I can understand it. It's not easy taking criticism for something you created, it really isn't, but at one point, you have to admit that you did not deliver what fans had been expecting in terms of quality based on the previous content you provided, and that's a simple fact, not a matter of opinion. Mass Effect 3's ending completely deviated from the entire franchise's major motifs and themes which have been consistent and reinforced everywhere else. 

And let's please not play semantics, Mr. Woo. The ending of the game is analagous to getting hit by a train on a bike, while walking, or while lying on the tracks: sure they are all a different "color," but it is all the same bloody result, and to insinuate otherwise is being blatantly disingenous to your fan base. You can either say the endings you made are fantastic because they didn't offer choice, or they were awful because they didn't offer choice, but you cannot say they did. You are entitled to your opinions as developers on your own works, but not your own facts. 

[Shalewind]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...
Members of the movement have launched personal attacks on the devs and attack players who have different opinions then them, thats hardly civil.

That cuts both ways, sir. There have been members on ALL sides that have crossed the line and not acted in civil and respectful ways.

[warrior256]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Just to let everyone know; This amount of mass childish behaviour and angry ranting is exactly why they haven't engaged you yet. Stanley came down to show that the team respects all of our thoughts, and you jumped down his throat.

This is how I know you're all still children. You want respect? Show respect.

This, this, this, 1000 times this.

I admit that many people on our side are acting illogical and being rude. But the problem is that even when Bioware addresses fans that are being respectful, their response is usually nothing more  then "Oh you just don't get how smart our endings are. We are smart people and we make smart things." How is that showing respect to us?

Modifié par warrior256, 29 mars 2012 - 02:20 .

[ZiegenkonigIII]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Do you honestly think ALL of you have been civil? Not trying to offend or anything but you are dellusional if you believe this.

Members of the movement have launched personal attacks on the devs and attack players who have different opinions then them, thats hardly civil.

Yes but Pro-enders are doing the same.  Neither side is justified in doing so.

People need to stop looking at the choice few individuals who make a group look bad and start looking at the group as a whole.

[camcon2100]

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

This if Bioware wants to label all of their fans as angry and entitled children thats fine thing is we love what Bioware has done before. We love all the developers, we don't like simplifing the situation under the label of "trolls". Bioware is a business, this is not good business to alienate the fans that love you the most...

[petipas4141]

Geneaux486 wrote...

But you cannot argue that they make any sense.

Of course you can. Easily. I have, others have, and yes, they have withstood scrutiny from you and everyone else.

if you have to argue it makes sense, it probably doesn't

[Blackmind1]

The Angry One wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Some have been civil, most haven't. I find "the Angry One" mostly pops up during uncivil arguments. One of those "fuel to the fire" kind of people, it seems.

I find myself often being accused of this by people who perpetrate it themselves, ye of the anti-Bethesda rant.

I have nothing against you personally, it was just an observation I've made. Sometimes it's good to be passionate, I just wish some in here would calm down a little.

[Shallyah]

This thread makes me a little sad.

Seriously, why don't we all wait till April before we keep beating the dead horse. I'm pretty sure all of this has been repeated to oblivion and they're aware of it.

Would be a good moment to start more threads about when do we get Aria as squad mate or requesting an ingame face model for Tali. You know, anything that doesn't vacum every thread and keeps then going in argumental circles forever.

Modifié par Shallyah, 29 mars 2012 - 02:20 .

[Divitiacus]

Geneaux486 wrote...

But you cannot argue that they make any sense.

Of course you can. Easily. I have, others have, and yes, they have withstood scrutiny from you and everyone else.

I go to law school. Anything can be argued. Doesn't make it a winner.

[camcon2100]

Geneaux486 wrote...

But you cannot argue that they make any sense.

Of course you can. Easily. I have, others have, and yes, they have withstood scrutiny from you and everyone else.

Enlighten us if you will!

[The Angry One]

Opsrbest wrote...

I lose. I lose subjectivity of the story that I have been presented with irregardless of how or why or what is changed through secondary modality.

So you must force the rest of us to endure your ending?
Do you also get annoyed because somebody took a paragon choice when you took renegade?

Why should I be faced with the option of either purchasing or dling, or being forced into a patch with "clarification" or any aspect of anything because there is a portion of the playerbase that is irrate over an ending?

If you don't want it, don't download it.

[felipejiraya]

Well, this thread had an interesting development.

[Geneaux486]

You're ignoring the fact that decisions made in the game have no impact on A B or C regardless of the far flung impact that in the end all end up with stargazing grampa

I've ignored nothing.  Your choices affect your EMS, which affects the endings.  Your choices also impact each and every major story arc in this game, even right up to the ending.

I go to law school. Anything can be argued. Doesn't make it a winner.

 
I almost can't believe I just read that.  You're right, anything can be argued.  This invalidates every single supporter of the endings how?

Modifié par Geneaux486, 29 mars 2012 - 02:22 .

[Exeider]

Blackmind1 wrote...

Just to let everyone know; This amount of mass childish behaviour and angry ranting is exactly why they haven't engaged you yet. Stanley came down to show that the team respects all of our thoughts, and you jumped down his throat.

This is how I know you're all still children. You want respect? Show respect.

respect is earned and given, not taken and entitled. You might want to think about this for a second. When they handed us that ending (probably KNOWING it wasnt going to go down well) and then gave us a prompt to buy more content, that was a slap in the face and a general sign of disrespect.

Why should i give someone respect that clearly shows me none.
-AE

[Blackmind1]

camcon2100 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

But you cannot argue that they make any sense.

Of course you can. Easily. I have, others have, and yes, they have withstood scrutiny from you and everyone else.

Enlighten us if you will!

Nothing that any pro-ender could say would ever get through to a Retaker. Each of us have already made up our minds, so to argue our points would be futile.

[wheelierdan]

what i want more than anything is to get the writers in a room and say this is why we did this or that, and i hope that happens someday. If outside pressures lead to the ending as it is i would love to know that. If it came down to the end being up to one or a few people without peer review, i would be interested in hearing about it.

I really hope we don't have to wait for someone to get fired or move on to spill those beans. I've been surprised by all the silence thus far.

[Plasma Prestige]

Geneaux486 wrote...

But you cannot argue that they make any sense.

Of course you can. Easily. I have, others have, and yes, they have withstood scrutiny from you and everyone else.

They don't make sense if you have to come up with some absurd justification to help your cause. The Indoc theory is that absurd thing, and while I agree it has a lot of evidence, it is nonetheless absurd. 

[petipas4141]

Geneaux486 wrote...

You're ignoring the fact that decisions made in the game have no impact on A B or C regardless of the far flung impact that in the end all end up with stargazing grampa

I've ignored nothing.  Your choices affect your EMS, which affects the endings.  Your choices also impact each and every major story arc in this game, even right up to the ending.

and everything gets thrown out at the ending so...

[camcon2100]

Geneaux486 wrote...

You're ignoring the fact that decisions made in the game have no impact on A B or C regardless of the far flung impact that in the end all end up with stargazing grampa

I've ignored nothing.  Your choices affect your EMS, which affects the endings.  Your choices also impact each and every major story arc in this game, even right up to the ending.

So fleets you've gathered affect wheather Shepard takes breath. You mean that impact...Ok