1334 réponses à ce sujet

[twizbuck]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

twizbuck wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Greer wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Danilo Luis wrote...

There's a huge difference between *listen* and give it the proper attention.

If you aren't willing to accept a response that disagrees with you, or aren't wililng to wait for an answer, or you insist that all of your issues must be resolved when you want them to be, then you're no longer making simple requests and giving feedback, are you? At that point, I would say you're making demands because you feel entitled to them, and we treat those very differently than we treat requests. Which is why we encourage people to be civil and patient and reasonable in their posts.

That's quite the low blow, don't you think?

Most people weren't expecting a fix right now. We know those things take time. All most people wanted was acknowledgement that we were upset, that there had been an error in judgement made, and that steps would be taken to rectify said error.

Instead, we got silence.

Mr.Woo is correct actually.  I did not know BioWare telling you they are listening and taking feedback from fans and then Ray coming out and telling you they are working on it and more details will be announced in april is silence.

That is in no way silence, obviously there are rules, and they can't just go out and tell you what you want when you want.  They atleast can tell you they are working on it, which they have said multiple times.

How is this not enough for people?

Because there's no guarantee the announcement will be what the fans want. And yes, I know not every single fan wants a different ending, but the vast majority does, and we need to make sure that's what the announcement will be about. If it's on anything else Mass Effect related (Retake Omega, Multiplayer especially), it could and most likely will be disasterous for Bioware.

Listen, what is in the game is not just going to go away, people need to get over that, it is NOT going to happen. IT'S GOING TO STAY THERE.  Hopefully though there will be ending DLC.  We have to wait until April to see though, if you do not get what you wanted in the april announcement, THEN you can complain, but right now, they said they're working on it and we will find out more in april, so why do people continue to complain?

Again, to make sure the fans get what they want. The idea is to silence people when they make an announcement like that. Why should we be quiet when we're this upset about it?

[ZiegenkonigIII]

Blackmind1 wrote...

Exeider wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Just to let everyone know; This amount of mass childish behaviour and angry ranting is exactly why they haven't engaged you yet. Stanley came down to show that the team respects all of our thoughts, and you jumped down his throat.

This is how I know you're all still children. You want respect? Show respect.

respect is earned and given, not taken and entitled. You might want to think about this for a second. When they handed us that ending (probably KNOWING it wasnt going to go down well) and then gave us a prompt to buy more content, that was a slap in the face and a general sign of disrespect.

Why should i give someone respect that clearly shows me none.
-AE

Every single person, no matter what, is entitled to respect from a fellow human being (Unless they've killed a baby or raped somebody). Showing respect, even when somebody has wronged you, is a sign of maturity and understanding.

As far as I know, Bioware haven't killed any babies, so they will continue to be given respect, especially when their respect is given to me by people such as Stanley. 

Delivering a bad ending and then trying their damned hardest to clean up the fallout is not a sign of disrespect. When the companies founder himself addresses your problem, you've got the respect you should need. You then begin repaying in turn.

At least, that's how an adult would act.

It may just be me, but Stanley's remarks didn't seem particularly respectful.

Unless he hasn't read any of the posts on this forum, or only chose to read the mega-threads.  If that's the case I withdraw my comment.

However, from what he said he didn't come off as respectful.  More condescending.

[Geneaux486]

Schief724 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...
 
I almost can't believe I just read that.  You're right, anything can be argued.  This invalidates every single supporter of the endings how?

I'm sure Hitler argued that his solution was logical in his eyes, but that doesn't make it right.

Of coruse that is a grossly exaggerated metaphor, but I did that intentionally to show you that just because YOU think something is correct and logical, does not make it correct and logical. It just makes it your opinion.

You're telling that to the wrong person.  That's precisely what I've been saying this entire thread.  Minus the Hitler stuff.

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

Felene wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Do you honestly think ALL of you have been civil? Not trying to offend or anything but you are dellusional if you believe this.

Members of the movement have launched personal attacks on the devs and attack players who have different opinions then them, thats hardly civil.

I find YOU intenionally troll baiting other anti-ending poster into rage and uncivilized post. Link

Well if you actually red the thread rather then a few words, you can see that I was willing to concede to a point, but then the poster got agressive and I cut it off with "k kewl story." I will not discuss this further in this thread as it does not belong here.

[Kashola]

Geneaux486 wrote...

So fleets you've gathered affect wheather Shepard takes breath. You mean that impact...Ok 

EMS also includes staff you have working on the Crucible.  The more resources you have for it, the better it will function, and yes, that could influence whether or not Shepard lives.

Any one of these things taken by itself sounds good, but when you put it all together it falls apart. Like I said, it's way too off topic to get into here, you've clearly ignored the many articles that explain why from a marketing, story, dramatic, cinematic, perspective it falls apart, but I won't get into it. You don't want to listen, because if you did you would have already at least understood the argument well enough to not mischaracterize it. I won't waste my time. 

So because I disagree I must have just ignored everything?  Like I said, says more about your own ego than it does about anything else.

 

Kill Wrex, destroy Maelon's data, sabotage genophage cure = Krogan are doomed.

Save Wrex, keep data, deply genophage cure = Krogan are doomed regardless, because the mass relays are all down, Wrex is trapped on Earth and they have no starships.

Or everyone works together to survive a temporary travel breakdown and rebuilds.  Your argument here is based on your own opinion of what happens after the game is over, not based on fact.

"Temporary travel breakdown" Wow man.  You do realize no one civilzation in current cycle was anywhere near understanding how Mass Relays were built/work.  Only the Protheans got close.. and it was at a super small scale (the conduit).

Modifié par Kashola, 29 mars 2012 - 02:34 .

[Diablos2525]

Alexraptor1 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I disagree that the ending was done "in the worst possible way." After all, there have been positive comments and it has spawned a lot of great discussion, theories, and criticism. A "worst possible" ending would not have had that kind of power.

With all due respect, the majority of your customers hate the ending.
The people who actually like it are a small minority.

I could point to all the forum feedback, polls on various sites etc, but i wont.
Instead I point to all my friends that hate the ending, and their friends in turn who also hate the ending, and acquaintances and workmates and their friends that also dislike the ending.
Off the internet I do not know or have heard of one single person who has liked the ending.

I don't know how or why, but ME3 was a great ride right up to the final moments where it simply feels like someone stopped caring and whipped up a half-baked ending that completely invalidates the entire ME trilogy.

Precisely the ending doesn't fit with how amazing the rest of the game is, I have faith that Bioware will attempt to fix it. How well that turns out, who can say yet?  We must have patience.

[Blackmind1]

Tovanus wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Just to let everyone know; This amount of mass childish behaviour and angry ranting is exactly why they haven't engaged you yet. Stanley came down to show that the team respects all of our thoughts, and you jumped down his throat.

This is how I know you're all still children. You want respect? Show respect.

Oh please. Bioware "hasn't engaged" people because they're acting childish? They're not engaging because they botched the thing to an almost irretrievable degree, and they're not sure how to respond to a tidal wave of backlash. Hiding behind the "some people on the forums aren't completely civil" defense is a pretty strong admission that they don't know what they're doing. A company that wants to engage with civil fans, that uses internet forums, can ALWAYS find a civil thread to do so. They can make a post that's locked for comments in response to general sentiments seen on the forum. We've gotten a limited amount of that here already. The reality is that if people weren't jumping down Bioware's throats every day to this degree, nothing - absolutely nothing - would have even the slightest hope of getting done.  Trying to equate fan anger (which often manifests in clever and funny ways on these forums) with fan "childishness" comes across as if you have some deep need to be viewed as, "one of the adults in the room." 

The reality is that the ending is terrible. Go read one of the articles that dissects the ending in detail (i.e. an article like the California Literary Review, or the article constantly linked analogizing it to Lord of the Rings), or go watch one of the Youtube videos treating it in great detail (there's a great new one by someone paying homage to Redlettermedia's reviews of the SW trilogy in their review of ME 3's ending). Avoid articles that briefly touch on a theme and don't treat the end in brutal detail. There is no comment, no defense, no action on these forums any individual fan can take that will change the massive fan reaction to the endings. The most civil thread in the world won't make Bioware engage more. The most vitriolic angry bitter mess of a thread won't make them ignore the situation out of distaste for "childish" fans. At the end of the day, they'll either engage meaningfully with the mass anger by making a meaningful change, or they'll ignore it and lose a huge portion of their fanbase that will just seek out other companies.

In all fair honesty, we could have had a civil discussion with Stanley here, but look how it turned out. The thread your posting in negates your post.

[The Angry One]

Opsrbest wrote...

It's not my ending. It's Biowares ending. The ending the game came out with. So no I'm not forcing you to endure anything.

Why should I have to exlcude myself from content? How can you sit there and type "Well if you don't like it look at something else." And sit on a soapbox screaming that the endings are so godaweful that you have to rage about it on the forums for going on 3 weeks very shortly?

It doesn't matter who's ending it is. It's a broken ending. They need to fix it.

And yes. Every choice made in the ME series must be done in paragon. Troll.

Attacks will get you nowhere. That is essentially what you're saying.

[CINCTuchanka]

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

It's not restated in the last five minutes, that's not the same as getting thrown out.

No, it's thrown out.

Example:

Kill Wrex, destroy Maelon's data, sabotage genophage cure = Krogan are doomed.

Save Wrex, keep data, deply genophage cure = Krogan are doomed regardless, because the mass relays are all down, Wrex is trapped on Earth and they have no starships.

See, I think this is the sort of thing that BioWare really needs to clear up.  I mean, I understand when people assume the worse about the ending and its consequences.  After all, the game was often times really downbeat.  However, I don't think it's logical to assume that "everyone's screwed" necessarily.  Could they be? Absolutely.  Maybe galactic civilziation was already screwed prior to the Mass Relay's destruction.  I think that if BioWare could release SOMETHING which allowed our actions to live on then I, and at least some others, would be mollified.  Beyond that, well you're more than welcome to ask for it nicely.

If you love the Mass Effect series, you love seeing the results of your consequences.  I think that when the results of our consequences are hidden from us, then we lose a large part of what we love about Mass Effect.  I can see how that makes people angry, I really do.  But the reason we love BioWare's games is because THEY love their games.  We need to make our concerns known without resorting to sarcasm or anger.  BioWare just finished what should be their Magnum Opus, tearing it down uneccesarily only leads to bad blood and luck of positive  results.

[lucidfox]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I disagree that the ending was done "in the worst possible way." After all, there have been positive comments and it has spawned a lot of great discussion, theories, and criticism. A "worst possible" ending would not have had that kind of power.

You're arguing semantics now. Yes, perhaps it's not exactly the worst possible ending among all endings to ME3 that can be imagined. It's still objectively bad, and if the writers cannot see this, then I have doubts about their competence - or their humility.

Yes, perhaps you could argue that it's your right as writers to release whatever ending you want. I'd also counter that it's my right as a customer to consider that you sold me a defective product, and refuse to buy any further ones until this issue is acknowledged and fixed.

[DJBare]

Mr Woo my dear chap, might I suggest another brand of cologne, it appears your current brand has an adverse affect on many(both sides), anyway, thanks for stepping into the pit and taking some time to chat with us, some of us are really waiting patiently for any announcements and hope you can come through for us.

Modifié par DJBare, 29 mars 2012 - 02:34 .

[Blackmind1]

ZiegenkonigIII wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Exeider wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Just to let everyone know; This amount of mass childish behaviour and angry ranting is exactly why they haven't engaged you yet. Stanley came down to show that the team respects all of our thoughts, and you jumped down his throat.

This is how I know you're all still children. You want respect? Show respect.

respect is earned and given, not taken and entitled. You might want to think about this for a second. When they handed us that ending (probably KNOWING it wasnt going to go down well) and then gave us a prompt to buy more content, that was a slap in the face and a general sign of disrespect.

Why should i give someone respect that clearly shows me none.
-AE

Every single person, no matter what, is entitled to respect from a fellow human being (Unless they've killed a baby or raped somebody). Showing respect, even when somebody has wronged you, is a sign of maturity and understanding.

As far as I know, Bioware haven't killed any babies, so they will continue to be given respect, especially when their respect is given to me by people such as Stanley. 

Delivering a bad ending and then trying their damned hardest to clean up the fallout is not a sign of disrespect. When the companies founder himself addresses your problem, you've got the respect you should need. You then begin repaying in turn.

At least, that's how an adult would act.

It may just be me, but Stanley's remarks didn't seem particularly respectful.

Unless he hasn't read any of the posts on this forum, or only chose to read the mega-threads.  If that's the case I withdraw my comment.

However, from what he said he didn't come off as respectful.  More condescending.

Then that would make you the better man for actually showing some respect. You don't just devolve into an **** because the other person does.

[Divitiacus]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Skirlasvoud wrote...

And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.

Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.

And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?

Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.

Well, to be fair, we have a list of very specific complaints on the ending that have yet to be specifically addressed. I think if that were to occur, we'd be very happy to actually argue those instead of having to duke it out over something we're not even sure what it is we're discussing. Anyway, good on you for dealing with it anyway.

Modifié par Divitiacus, 29 mars 2012 - 02:34 .

[Stanley Woo]

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

[twizbuck]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Just to let everyone know; This amount of mass childish behaviour and angry ranting is exactly why they haven't engaged you yet. Stanley came down to show that the team respects all of our thoughts, and you jumped down his throat.

This is how I know you're all still children. You want respect? Show respect.

This, this, this, 1000 times this.

You're just going to spark more antimosity with responses like this.

[Xion66]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Skirlasvoud wrote...

And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.

Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.

And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?

Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.

Just like the all 3 endings?


sorry had to do it, but seriously thank you from coming out and posting, I understand how it must feel on the other side. damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[Geneaux486]

Kashola wrote...

"Temporary travel breakdown" Wow man.  You do realize no one civilzation in current cycle was anywhere near understanding how Mass Relays were built/work.  Only the Protheans got close.. and it was at a super small scale (the conduit).

So we're just gonna ignore the fact that in the control and synthesis options the Reapers live, and will more than likely want to get home themselves?  Yes, in the event that the Reapers survive, it is most likely a temporary travel breakdown.

[Murkman4683]

My kids kids are going to remember this day....

Yeah, no they are not, it is just Kotaku, no one take them seriously outside of the gaming community.

EDIT:  Stanley Woo just regulated, oh snap!

Modifié par Murkman4683, 29 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[The Angry One]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

It's not restated in the last five minutes, that's not the same as getting thrown out.

No, it's thrown out.

Example:

Kill Wrex, destroy Maelon's data, sabotage genophage cure = Krogan are doomed.

Save Wrex, keep data, deploy genophage cure = Krogan are doomed regardless, because the mass relays are all down, Wrex is trapped on Earth and they have no starships.

They are still not doomed. The race still exists and your assuming that they would be self destructive instead of being actually shown as playing out that way in front of you. The relays situation does not equal all life wiped out there are many ways using logic to interpret different outcomes from implosion instead of explosion to altered state of the energy wave via the catalyst.

- We are told that Wrex is the hope for Krogan future.
- We are told that Tuchanka cannot sustain the Krogan with the cure.
- We are told they need colony worlds from the Council.
- We are told the Krogan have no starships of their own.

Then, the mass relays are destroyed. Wrex is permanently cut off from Tuchanka, as are it's best warriors.
Best case scenario - Eve is left alone to deal with the clans Wrex united on a radioactive dirtball of a world that soon won't be able to sustain or feed it's exploding population.

[Danilo Luis]

when I was young, the customers was always right.

[Blackmind1]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

Oooooo, now you've gone and done it! 

[felipejiraya]

MaximizedAction wrote...

felipejiraya wrote...

Well, this thread had an interesting development.

Neither did I expect anything really nice when I saw the thread's title.

I created it with the best intentions possible. lol

[SealKudos]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Skirlasvoud wrote...

And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.

Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.

And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?

Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.

On the risk of being called a kiss-a**, can I jump in here and say we don't ALL hate BioWare, as it may seem.

I'm sure you have to dig through a ton of us to find some reasonable people.  But I'm sure you also realize that those who have negative outlooks and attitudes scream the loudest.

Just want to say that I'm glad you still jump in this cluster and try to sort things out.  A lot of people view BioWare negatively right now, but there are still plenty of fans who have your back.  Things will settle down eventually.

[MetalCargo999]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Skirlasvoud wrote...

And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.

Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.

And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?

Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.

Yea.  We all know that some official announcements are coming in April.  Therefore, we shouldn't jump on the guy about it. C'est tranquille les boys... C'est tranquille... 

[ahandsomeshark]

Schief724 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...
 
I almost can't believe I just read that.  You're right, anything can be argued.  This invalidates every single supporter of the endings how?

I'm sure Hitler argued that his solution was logical in his eyes, but that doesn't make it right.

Of coruse that is a grossly exaggerated metaphor, but I did that intentionally to show you that just because YOU think something is correct and logical, does not make it correct and logical. It just makes it your opinion.

I have no idea what this argument is about but really bro? You had to bring in Hitler. Pretty much any time someone resorts to using Hitler in their argument it's automatically invalid. Unless you're literally arguing about WW2.