1334 réponses à ce sujet

[felipejiraya]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

Oh boy, here we go.

[Felene]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

It's not restated in the last five minutes, that's not the same as getting thrown out.

No, it's thrown out.

Example:

Kill Wrex, destroy Maelon's data, sabotage genophage cure = Krogan are doomed.

Save Wrex, keep data, deploy genophage cure = Krogan are doomed regardless, because the mass relays are all down, Wrex is trapped on Earth and they have no starships.

They are still not doomed. The race still exists and your assuming that they would be self destructive instead of being actually shown as playing out that way in front of you. The relays situation does not equal all life wiped out there are many ways using logic to interpret different outcomes from implosion instead of explosion to altered state of the energy wave via the catalyst and more.

Lots of speculation from everyone.

It is obvious that pro-ending and anti-ending can only agree on disagree at this point. The ending plot hole is too big for either side to convince the other.

[Schief724]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Skirlasvoud wrote...

And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.

Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.

And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?

Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.

Mr. Woo

I think it would help the situation of somebody assositated with BioWare specifically stated,

"We understand x, y and z are issues for all of you. We can't promise that we will rectify all of these, because we still have a desire to remain loyal to the vision we set forth with when first creating the game. However we are trying our best to do so that we can satisfy all parties involved"

Just give us something that explicitly states that BioWare actually understands what our issues with the ending are. That will go a long way to building more trust with all of us.

[ZiegenkonigIII]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You do not understand what logic is. It is logical to gain emotional enjoyment from an element designed to provoke such a response, it is logical to expect a lot of questions, use of imagination and thinking when it was designed to do so. These things it did. It accomplished it's goal. It is not illogical when recieve such things and had a desire for them to exist at that point, for a person to be happy with what they got.

Missing the point.
The endings are illogical. Not the people that like them.
Again, if you like the endings in spite of their nonsensicalness, good for you.

But you cannot argue that they make any sense. The Normandy scene has no context, no logic and is completely out of character.
The Catalyst is a narrative disaster, introducing a new character with new elements in the final segment of the story, it violates every literary rule for a classic hero/adventure story out there.

Yes it lacks context and exposition which is not an issue for some like myself, but that is what they specifically already said will deal with in the forthcoming DLC. However just because it lacks details does not make any possiblity that someone comes up with as illogical. It is just you do not except their logic.

Someone actually made a thread that showed, with real math (yes real), that the part with Joker fleeing earth was literally impossible.  Its not a matter of accepting someones logic at this point, its a matter of downright impossibility.

[N7L4D]

Ohhhhhh staaaaaannnnnley

[Geneaux486]

Best case scenario - Eve is left alone to deal with the clans Wrex united on a radioactive dirtball of a world that soon won't be able to sustain or feed it's exploding population.

You're right minus the "best case" part. It's a scenario, one of many, and certainly not best case.

[Mesmurae]

Mr Woo does make some valid points, even if he is on the other side of the fence. People are upset, and it has caused us to lash out irrationally. Every statement Bioware releases is torn apart and examined from every possible angle until we see exactly what we want to see. I'm just going to patiently wait until April to see what Bioware announces. If I'm still disappointed after that... well, I move on and I will forever lament the way Mass Effect 3 ended.

[The Angry One]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

And have you ever thought the general anger might be because we are being stonewalled?
Perhaps if we had some actual communication, we would calm down and use the opportunity to, you know, talk?

You can't hide behind a brick wall throwing out buzzwords like "artistic integrity" and "our endings not yours" and expect people to take it and smile forever.
As for the extremists? If they get out of line, ban them. But the fact remains you won't give us a chance.

[WildcardCharlie]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I'm sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

That's all well and good, but then please don't tell us that we're "co-writers of the game" when ME3 went in a completely different direction than at least half the fans wanted.

My main issue with ME3 is that I feel it was falsely advertised. If the series had been marketed so much based on "choose your own ending" and "you write the story" then I don't think there would be as much of an uproar.

There wasn't an uproar (highlight for spoiler of RDR) when the writers of RDR decided to kill off John Marston. That wasn't a happy lolipops and rainbows ending, and yet people loved it. That should tell us something.

Modifié par WildcardCharlie, 29 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[ticklefist]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

It's not restated in the last five minutes, that's not the same as getting thrown out.

No, it's thrown out.

Example:

Kill Wrex, destroy Maelon's data, sabotage genophage cure = Krogan are doomed.

Save Wrex, keep data, deploy genophage cure = Krogan are doomed regardless, because the mass relays are all down, Wrex is trapped on Earth and they have no starships.

They are still not doomed. The race still exists and your assuming that they would be self destructive instead of being actually shown as playing out that way in front of you. The relays situation does not equal all life wiped out there are many ways using logic to interpret different outcomes from implosion instead of explosion to altered state of the energy wave via the catalyst.

I dunno, the game seemed to want to tell me that without Wrex's leadership that the Krogan would continue down the savage path they'd been on for a millenium. That Wrex's leadership will guide them and the cure of the genophage will give them enough hope to listen. That the direction I felt the narrative was guiding me. YMMV.

[Taboo]

I have sent an eleven page essay explaining my feelings to Bioware. Stanley if you read this, expect a brown package in the mail headed straight to the office headquarters. My teachers never got that much respect in High School. Please read with earnest.

[Schief724]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Schief724 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...
 
I almost can't believe I just read that.  You're right, anything can be argued.  This invalidates every single supporter of the endings how?

I'm sure Hitler argued that his solution was logical in his eyes, but that doesn't make it right.

Of coruse that is a grossly exaggerated metaphor, but I did that intentionally to show you that just because YOU think something is correct and logical, does not make it correct and logical. It just makes it your opinion.

I have no idea what this argument is about but really bro? You had to bring in Hitler. Pretty much any time someone resorts to using Hitler in their argument it's automatically invalid. Unless you're literally arguing about WW2.

I purposefully said that it was a grossly exaggerated metaphor, or maybe you missed that part.

Modifié par Schief724, 29 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[twizbuck]

I have to say, Mr. Woo seems to be really pressing for more negative responses than positive ones.

I'm not saying everyone who hates the ending has been civil, but if you want people to be nice, you have to be nice too. With a couple posters accusing others of being childish and long "hahaha" posts, I don't think you're going to get the show of respect you want.

[Blackmind1]

Danilo Luis wrote...

when I was young, the customers was always right.

Maybe it's just because of all the retail experience I've had, but if the customer showed me no respect, I would find it hard to justify helping them with their problem. I would still have to address them, but I wouldn't do it as enthusiastically as I would have if they were more polite.

[howieloader]

*got my meh popcorn*

Nothing to really add to this conversation except to Stan, those smileys are the best and I think you should definitely keep using them... [he said sarcasticly]

[Felene]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

The Angry One wrote...

And have you ever thought the general anger might be because we are being stonewalled?
Perhaps if we had some actual communication, we would calm down and use the opportunity to, you know, talk?

You can't hide behind a brick wall throwing out buzzwords like "artistic integrity" and "our endings not yours" and expect people to take it and smile forever.
As for the extremists? If they get out of line, ban them. But the fact remains you won't give us a chance.

 

Nice.

Modifié par Felene, 29 mars 2012 - 02:40 .

[camcon2100]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Skirlasvoud wrote...

And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.

Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.

And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?

Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.

I agree with this, but can you blame us Woo you left us in the dark...We look for things where there not there. We just need some sort of awknoglement that this isn't a lost cause yet... As I have stated I love you guys, but I can't support a company that is willing to alienate their whole fan base to make a point.

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

Mr. Woo, you being a representative of Bioware, I would strongly suggest you vacate this thread. At this point you are not doing your company any good.

Modifié par Samuel_Valkyrie, 29 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[MassEffecter132]

Bioware can't ignore us

Hold the Line

[warrior256]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

I do agree there. I would love to get into a civil debate with the developers but the problem is that there are many people on both sides that are not civil. No offense to everyone out there, but a lot of you guys seriously need to calm down. I didn't like the ending but I don't want to go out and insult everyone who disagrees with me. A civil debate is all I need!

[BobbyTheI]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

Stanley, if you're here to instigate us into further anger, you're doing a bang up job, buddy.  Is this what BioWare considers "dialogue with their fans?"

[The Angry One]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Best case scenario - Eve is left alone to deal with the clans Wrex united on a radioactive dirtball of a world that soon won't be able to sustain or feed it's exploding population.

You're right minus the "best case" part. It's a scenario, one of many, and certainly not best case.

Care to provide a better one?

[Stanley Woo]

mokponobi wrote...

Thanks Mr Woo, for engaging the fans in a discussion for a bit. I appreciate hearing from you guys even if I disagree with what is said.

Hopefully, you can pick out the posts that are polite and respectful and continue to be patient with the hot heads.

Cheers.

You're welcome. I wouldn't be here if I didn't love our community like I do. And despite what people say, we do listen and we can pick out the gems amid the chaff. We have the technology.

We don't expect people to like us or agree with us all the time. But we would prefer it if people freaked out a little less.

[GracefulChicken]

Mr. Woo, laying some smaaackdooowwn.

Yes, fans are powerful, as they should be with this form of art (it IS art, btw... "artistic integrity" just changes when the consumers of the art are actively involved in how it plays out), still it shouldn't go to peoples noggins. It doesnt mean every request by a large group of fans should be directly addressed and "solved" if it's a preference problem. This was an out of the ordinary event.

I just hope it doesn't keep devolving into this kind of entitlement we've been seeing. Like Stanley Woo pointed out, there is a difference between reasonable requests and criticisms and outright disrespect and entitlement, and I'm afraid the "Hold the line" thing has the former at heart, but the latter in spades.