1334 réponses à ce sujet

[TheWerdna]

Guys, this is getting out of hand. Harassing and insulting Bioware employees will not help anything, and only makes you look immature and entitled. Yes, a lot of us are upset about the endings, but that odes not mean lashing out any Bioware employee who does respond. Please, we need to stay civil and respectful, no matter how upset we are it is the right thing to do.

[Paparob]

I don't blame you Stanley, I have no ill will towards you personally perhaps since I'm civil with you might be able to answer a few questions for me. I promise nothing inflammatory or above your pay grade.

1) I understand there is a lot over analyzing on the fans part, I can agree its can get a bit out of hand but why do you feel that fans are speculating on Bioware statements to such a degree?

2) How much of a dialogue do you have with the developers?

Modifié par Paparob, 29 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[Aznable Char]

Danilo Luis wrote...

when I was young, the customers was always right.

The customer still is . Only because making a game is not making an ideological argument for or against something , it is selling a product . Therefore , whatever the customer will consume is what is "right" because it generates money .

If you want to be right , then show it by affecting money generation instead of attempting to win moral arguments .

Who cares if Mr. Stanley Woo believes people to be entitled , demanding , or if they spam too much or if they make disruptive comments . Attempting to argue with him has no effect on him because we are not the ones who pay him .

Imagine how he would treat us if we were the ones paying for his pay check . Imagine if we determined his salary every week . Would he still call you entitled ? I doubt it .

OH crap ... wait a minute . We ARE paying for his paycheck by buying these games . However we have no right to dictate his responses or BioWare's responses . But we do have a right to withhold payment for the responses we don't want .

So if Mr. Woo laughs at you and , by his statements possibly implicate that the Retake movement is rowdy and unproductive . Then please follow what he says and stop posting rage .

Show your rage by witholding payment .

Do not pay the company that pays Mr. Woo to dismiss your claims of a bad ending .

[Kashola]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Kashola wrote...

"Temporary travel breakdown" Wow man.  You do realize no one civilzation in current cycle was anywhere near understanding how Mass Relays were built/work.  Only the Protheans got close.. and it was at a super small scale (the conduit).

So we're just gonna ignore the fact that in the control and synthesis options the Reapers live, and will more than likely want to get home themselves?  Yes, in the event that the Reapers survive, it is most likely a temporary travel breakdown.

Yes i'm going to ignore the fact that the Reapers have ANY possible positive capacity. If they did synthetics wouldn't ever wipe out organics because the synthetics would have to go through the Reapers first, because of course the Reapers are here just to keep organics from becoming extinct completely right?  Btw, their "home" was dark space just waiting for civilizations to hit their apex to harvest, that use would be obsolete after control/synthesis, so they could go to the dark corner of Sol for anyone's guess.. space is a damn big place.

Modifié par Kashola, 29 mars 2012 - 02:41 .

[Zuka999]

If I may ask, why respond to this thread in particular? I get that you guys are all trying to avoid dealing with tons of negativity. So why respond at all? Just wondering.

[Sohlito]

I wonder if I'll get in trouble for quoting my own response to a quote, just so it can get read...

[ZiegenkonigIII]

Schief724 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Skirlasvoud wrote...

And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.

Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.

And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?

Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.

Mr. Woo

I think it would help the situation of somebody assositated with BioWare specifically stated,

"We understand x, y and z are issues for all of you. We can't promise that we will rectify all of these, because we still have a desire to remain loyal to the vision we set forth with when first creating the game. However we are trying our best to do so that we can satisfy all parties involved"

Just give us something that explicitly states that BioWare actually understands what our issues with the ending are. That will go a long way to building more trust with all of us.

This.

[CINCTuchanka]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

Could be worse....could have this reaction.

http://www.pbs.org/w...teofspring.html

[WildcardCharlie]

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

[Taboo]

It's a relief to read that Mr. Woo.

[MetalCargo999]

Can I interject and say I love everyone? I think that everyone is lovely, and I say that in the most loving way.

[MaximizedAction]

[Violation of Rule #6 removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 29 mars 2012 - 02:57 .

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

The Angry One wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

And have you ever thought the general anger might be because we are being stonewalled?
Perhaps if we had some actual communication, we would calm down and use the opportunity to, you know, talk?

You can't hide behind a brick wall throwing out buzzwords like "artistic integrity" and "our endings not yours" and expect people to take it and smile forever.
As for the extremists? If they get out of line, ban them. But the fact remains you won't give us a chance.

Your not being stonewalled, they're a corporation, they have boundaries, some things they can say others they can't.  You have been told there will be more information in april, and the devs are openly listening to criticism, how is this being stonewalled? 

You are acting like they have not even acknowledged the issue, but they repeatitively have.

Sorry their response does not suit your wants.

[JMA22TB]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I disagree that the ending was done "in the worst possible way." After all, there have been positive comments and it has spawned a lot of great discussion, theories, and criticism. A "worst possible" ending would not have had that kind of power.

I really have to say something about this.

What was the priority there? I mean, I might be reading what you're saying wrong but it looks like you're saying the ending got people talking so it wasn't a bad ending and that because some people said it was good that can't be the case.

The power of an ending like this doesn't appear to be the kind of power that starts a huge rush of people saying, "Thank you! I loved Mass Effect's story and I was so happy with seeing Shepard and his friends end their journey together!" I mean, realistically, how many threads are there like that with as many posts as in threads like "So we can't the ending we wanted?" or "Was the ending a dream?"

I remember in ME2 the threads with that many posts were talking about how much they liked certain characters. You never saw threads like that if anything people who criticized the story were swarmed by people who felt it was great.

Now it's the total opposite.

It seems more like the kind of power that gets press attention, causes controversy, and, as indicated by the screen we see after the ending, a way to make a cliffhanger and pitch future DLC.

I mean more power to you guys for getting all over the world's news, but is the power worth hearing people talk about how they didn't like what they feel is the most critical moment of the game and constantly having to snip out angry posts all day?

[DarthSyphilis59]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Danilo Luis wrote...

There's a huge difference between *listen* and give it the proper attention.

If you aren't willing to accept a response that disagrees with you, or aren't wililng to wait for an answer, or you insist that all of your issues must be resolved when you want them to be, then you're no longer making simple requests and giving feedback, are you? At that point, I would say you're making demands because you feel entitled to them, and we treat those very differently than we treat requests. Which is why we encourage people to be civil and patient and reasonable in their posts.

I would be careful not to insult paying customers by using the term "entitlement" which has been thrown around a lot at us. My wife and I spent $200 dollars on just mass effect 3  alone. We have been loyal. We have spent hard earned money on a product and brand that we loved.

[twizbuck]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

Mr. Woo, as a representative of Bioware, I would strongly suggest you vacate this thread. At this point you are not doing your company any good.

Interesting.

[ahandsomeshark]

A quick tally of my overall satisfaction with the ending of games vs the amount of money I've spent on the game would indicate that Mass Effect 3 did end in the worst way possible.

I'm just sayin is all. I generally make a point not to directly engage mods/owners of boards because it rarely accomplishes anything but c'mon man. How can you make a post specifically using the word entitled and using the same artistic integrity response and not expect to get angry responses. How is that not troll baiting?

[DJBare]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!
A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

Wait, what?, did you just bait? "puts on flame suit"; it's gonna get rather warm in here.

[Dragoonlordz]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Have you guys considered maybe they'll talk to us more if we don't tear them apart every time they try to talk to us? Just going out on a limb...they don't like to be personally and professionally attacked any more than you do. Keep it civil folks.

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

Agreed. There is extreme hostility coming from the fans, vast disdain and bile from many who dislike the ending (even some who like the ending). It is rare to actually have reasonable debate with many of them and maybe thats due to how many on here are annoyed with the ending compared to how many like it but it certainly feels one sided on these forums with regard to the hatred expressed by those who dislike it and a lot of that is targetted directly at the developers. In fact most of the criticism of those who hate it have come from outside these forums but even though some are civil and reasonable more so are not of late.

[warrior256]

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

I don't think Mr. Woo ever said that. All he said was that there are a lot of us that are not being civil. That, in my opinion, is the truth.

[Divitiacus]

Anyway, my final thought here is it seems natural that articulating why people are upset, is going to come across as critical. But it's a description of a state of the world. I didn't make people like this. People would just like to be addressed as to what they've actually been saying. It's that simple.I certainly don't dislike anyone or wish anyone ill. But it's sad I even have to add that disclaimor.

Modifié par Divitiacus, 29 mars 2012 - 02:44 .

[Diablos2525]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Skirlasvoud wrote...

And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.

Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.

And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?

Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.

It's a circle though Mr. Woo. Maybe we dissect everything because you guys post so rarely, so whenever we see one of you post we all want to read what you say and dissect it. Why not just have every BSN member of the BIOWARE team have a disclaimer on their sig that says " All forum posts are the opinions of the poster and will not reflect on future decisions at BIOWARE." Something along those lines.

I just wish you guys would talk with us more? 

[MetalCargo999]

Stanley Woo wrote...

mokponobi wrote...

Thanks Mr Woo, for engaging the fans in a discussion for a bit. I appreciate hearing from you guys even if I disagree with what is said.

Hopefully, you can pick out the posts that are polite and respectful and continue to be patient with the hot heads.

Cheers.

You're welcome. I wouldn't be here if I didn't love our community like I do. And despite what people say, we do listen and we can pick out the gems amid the chaff. We have the technology.

We don't expect people to like us or agree with us all the time. But we would prefer it if people freaked out a little less.

Thank God.  I was starting to cringe there for a second at some of the stuff being said.

[Qutayba]

I'm content to wait and see what they come up with in April. They may already have something, they may not. I'll reserve my judgements until I see the product. I don't doubt BioWare's sincerity when they say they're listening.

That being said, I think many fans are still upset because the few official comments we've gotten don't really convey with confidence the sense that BioWare "gets" why fans are upset. These statements seem to say that the devs think the fans need more happiness, more clarification, or more closure. Yes, certainly these are desirable things, but these statements, perhaps unintentionally, have a belittling effect. Happiness = these kids just want a Disney ending. Clarification = it went over their heads, the dullards. Closure = they need to be hand-held through the emotional process. In other words, the rhetoric comes across as vaguely condescending.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of cogent posts that outline the dramaturgical, literary, philosophical, logical, ethical, and psychological flaws in the ending, as it is. BioWare fans tend to be a pretty sophisticated bunch, although there is a drooling Neanderthal here and there. The only defenses of the ending that make any sense to me or have any genuine passion behind them are the philosophical ones - and that is telling, because Mass Effect, although there have always been philosophical underpinnings to the series, is not primarily about philosophy. The endings are so problematic that mere closure, happiness, or clarification would be like using a band-aid on a amputation wound.

Just for myself, I don't need an "apology." If BioWare makes a serious, non-condescending effort to rectify the ending, that will be apology enough. But I think what many fans still need at this point is more confidence not just that BioWare is listening, but also that they respect what they're heard. I'm sure they do, but in a forum like this, with every word being instantly dissected, the rhetoric from BioWare needs to be more finely-tuned.

Modifié par Qutayba, 29 mars 2012 - 02:45 .