1334 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Paparob wrote...

I don't blame you Stanley, I have no ill will towards you personally perhaps since I'm civil with you might be able to answer a few questions for me. I promise nothing inflammatory or above your pay grade.

1) I understand there is a lot over analyzing on the fans part, I can agree its can get a bit out of hand but why do you feel that fans are speculating on Bioware statements to such a degree?

Because as much as people will threaten to leave the community, to never buy another BioWare product again, to never listen to thing we say again, there is a shred of hope that many in the community will hang onto. Now matter how demoralized people get, no mater how angry and frustrated they may feel, they really, really, really, really, really want to hear that their issues have been "fixed."

At the moment, however, the wounds are too large and too deep, so they scour all of BioWare's comments in an effort to find either those comments that keep their hope alive and/or those that they feel justify their furstration, hatred, or anger.

though it may seem contrary, this is a testament to how much our game has affected our fans and how much they care about our game and the franchise, and we can't (and don't) blame them for that.

2) How much of a dialogue do you have with the developers?

Little.

I wonder...does anyone within BioWare ever think..

"Why, oh why didn't we just copy another game and slap a new coat of paint on it, rather than create these awesome amazing worlds people would get sucked into so totally?"

[TheOptimist]

Opsrbest wrote...

So the only statement that works is them admitting they are wrong and giving you what you want? Theres no other possibility out there other then that?

That seem short sided and narrowminded.

Well the other possiblity that springs to mind is to just come out and say they disagree with us and that sorry, the ending ain't changing buckoes.  And yes, that would upset people, but it would be a definitive answer and people would move on. It would likely have profoundly negative effect on future sales, but people WOULD move on. 

[Greer]

John Epler wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

Is it wrong everytime I read a reply of yours I read it in Jacob's voice?


OT: Most fans have been good sports, and a concrete statement without looping around the issue would be nice, some people are boiling up, others are being extremist, but I still feel like we've been given crumbs and are expected to smile all the way into April.

Well, I can't speak for the ME team, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding exactly how things move in a company the size of BioWare, especially one that's publicly traded. Not your guys' fault - you have no real need to know what goes on internally, you're not employees. But there are things we can say in public, things we can't, and things we can say, but only when they're approved by the appropriate parties (legal, etc.) Not to mention that, in a situation where there's as much emotion on the line as there is here, you want to be very careful as to what you say because, hey, people are going to react, and you don't want an ill-conceived word sending everyone into a frenzy.

I imagine that, when they are able to say more, they'll say more. I'd counsel patience, although I understand that, when you're passionate about an issue, that's easier said than done. Most of you have been quite civil and polite, and we thank you for that. But vitriol and insults from the vocal minority who -aren't- able to remain civil isn't going to make things go faster. I hate saying 'it'll happen when it happens', but that's largely true with bigger companies. It's not always ideal, but it's a fact of life and business.

I don't know what goes on directly at Bioware, I admit that up front. However, I am no stranger to how large corporations in general work and understand that sometimes you can't say what you might like, or that you have to speak in vaguearies due to legal issues.

However.

None  of that is an excuse for the blatant trolling some of your staff have done to the fanbase. I can go pull up tweets from Chris Priestley that insinuate ReTakers are idiots. I have screenshots of the official masseffect twitter responding favorably to someone who called ReTakers (and thus a majority of your fanbase) vile things I can't repeat here. Woo himself has been trolling us since this thread opened.

Complete stonewalling isn't the answer either.

There exists a middle ground between blocking us out entirely and insulting and belittling us. It would probably behoove Bioware to find it.

[ahandsomeshark]

John Epler wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

Is it wrong everytime I read a reply of yours I read it in Jacob's voice?


OT: Most fans have been good sports, and a concrete statement without looping around the issue would be nice, some people are boiling up, others are being extremist, but I still feel like we've been given crumbs and are expected to smile all the way into April.

Well, I can't speak for the ME team, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding exactly how things move in a company the size of BioWare, especially one that's publicly traded. Not your guys' fault - you have no real need to know what goes on internally, you're not employees. But there are things we can say in public, things we can't, and things we can say, but only when they're approved by the appropriate parties (legal, etc.) Not to mention that, in a situation where there's as much emotion on the line as there is here, you want to be very careful as to what you say because, hey, people are going to react, and you don't want an ill-conceived word sending everyone into a frenzy.

I imagine that, when they are able to say more, they'll say more. I'd counsel patience, although I understand that, when you're passionate about an issue, that's easier said than done. Most of you have been quite civil and polite, and we thank you for that. But vitriol and insults from the vocal minority who -aren't- able to remain civil isn't going to make things go faster. I hate saying 'it'll happen when it happens', but that's largely true with bigger companies. It's not always ideal, but it's a fact of life and business.

this is a bit of a tangent and not really a specific response to what you said but I think the point a lot of fans are trying to get across (albiet poorly) here is that the way companies respond is broken. And needs to be amended or they're in danger of losing customers and fan trust. And that in the age of the internet, specifically for companies whose target audience consists largely of customers who grew up in the internet age, the status quo isn't going to work anymore. Obviously Bioware can't just change now but I think (and hope) one of the biggest things game companies take from this backlash is that they have to reevalaute the ways they communicate with and engage fans. 

[Divitiacus]

Tovanus wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Tovanus wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Just to let everyone know; This amount of mass childish behaviour and angry ranting is exactly why they haven't engaged you yet. Stanley came down to show that the team respects all of our thoughts, and you jumped down his throat.

This is how I know you're all still children. You want respect? Show respect.

Oh please. Bioware "hasn't engaged" people because they're acting childish? They're not engaging because they botched the thing to an almost irretrievable degree, and they're not sure how to respond to a tidal wave of backlash. Hiding behind the "some people on the forums aren't completely civil" defense is a pretty strong admission that they don't know what they're doing. A company that wants to engage with civil fans, that uses internet forums, can ALWAYS find a civil thread to do so. They can make a post that's locked for comments in response to general sentiments seen on the forum. We've gotten a limited amount of that here already. The reality is that if people weren't jumping down Bioware's throats every day to this degree, nothing - absolutely nothing - would have even the slightest hope of getting done.  Trying to equate fan anger (which often manifests in clever and funny ways on these forums) with fan "childishness" comes across as if you have some deep need to be viewed as, "one of the adults in the room." 

The reality is that the ending is terrible. Go read one of the articles that dissects the ending in detail (i.e. an article like the California Literary Review, or the article constantly linked analogizing it to Lord of the Rings), or go watch one of the Youtube videos treating it in great detail (there's a great new one by someone paying homage to Redlettermedia's reviews of the SW trilogy in their review of ME 3's ending). Avoid articles that briefly touch on a theme and don't treat the end in brutal detail. There is no comment, no defense, no action on these forums any individual fan can take that will change the massive fan reaction to the endings. The most civil thread in the world won't make Bioware engage more. The most vitriolic angry bitter mess of a thread won't make them ignore the situation out of distaste for "childish" fans. At the end of the day, they'll either engage meaningfully with the mass anger by making a meaningful change, or they'll ignore it and lose a huge portion of their fanbase that will just seek out other companies.

In all fair honesty, we could have had a civil discussion with Stanley here, but look how it turned out. The thread your posting in negates your post.

It doesn't negate an ounce of my post. I'm not even sure how my post could be twisted in such a way that it could be negated by this thread. The gist of my post is that these forums present a tidal wave of anger, and that that tidal wave is the only reason that anything (even something ultimately sub-par) might get done on the ending. There is no thread on this forum that a Bioware employee could enter, while defending the ending, without expecting a mountain of anger heaped their way. And that's a good thing, because that environment is the natural product of the fans massive discontent, and it's the only reason anything might get done.

The developers would have to be living under a rock to ignore the countless posts, or several articles or video commentaries documenting what makes the endings terrible. Not that they'd read or watch everyone, but merely that it's hard to fathom them not checking it out for themselves. The purpose of these forums is to keep consumer feedback in easily accessible view, and to ocassionally allow for announcements by the company that everyone can see. Besides all that, moderators here do keep things civil. That's what they do, they moderate. If your definition of "civil" is that no one ever gets angry, engages in sarcasm or tells someone they're foolishly defending something that's objectively indefensible, then you shouldn't be on any internet forum.

I'm going to guess you subscribe to Consumer Reports.

[twizbuck]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

twizbuck wrote...

John Epler wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

When a group gets to a certain size, you can have the majority of that group be civil and respectful and yet still have dozens who are hostile and aggressive. And while that still may be the minority of that group, it can be difficult to make the mental separation when you're being insulted and threatened by that many people on a daily basis.

No tune-changin' here, just the realities of scale.

Then look at it in percentages. How many people have been positive in their response, and how many have been negative, in relation to the whole. I understand what you're saying, but some of the things Mr. Woo has said on here are... rather discerning.

At the same time, the most vocal criticism can be the most hurtful.  And even though BioWare is a corporation, I think everyone can tell that ME3 was crafted with great attention and even love I would say.  NO ONE who creates something like this, something which you can tell has a lot of emotion poured into it wants to see it attacked.   And I mean "attacked" not "criticized." Not criticizing BioWare would be a disservice to them and their own artistic growth, attacking them is a disservice to the community. 

Also, any other fan of almost ANYTHING would never get the positive treatment BioWare provides us.  if George R.R. Martin makes an ending you don't like, do you think he would EVER entertain changing it?  The fact that BioWare is doing so is and is engaging with us as much as they have is a privlege, not a right.  I don't like the ending, but the fact that BioWare is listening is a lot more than I would have ever expected.  So that's why I think we should play nice.

I'm all for playing nice, and all for respecting the Bioware employees that have stuck their neck out to try and talk to us. I denounce those fans who hated the ending as I did that ruthlessly and maniacly attack Bioware for their game, because they did put a ton of effort and feeling into their product.

But we have a right to be dissatisfied. We have a right to say, "that wasn't good." and let them know it. For the most part, it's been done in a respectful, tasteful manner, but you will always have those people that take it too far. As a member of the opposition, in this case Bioware, you have to be able to deflect those comments and move forward. Pulling something like Mr. Woo just did only serves to damage your credibility, and I greatly respect Mr. Epler for coming on here to try and help settle things. But we simply want a direct answer: what is going to happen to the ending? Is it nothing? Will there be something added on? Will it be completely changed? What are their plans?

We wouldn't be on here if we didn't love Bioware and the work they've done, nor would there be such outrage. But I think it would go a long way to give the fans a straight answer, even if it's just, "we haven't decided yet, but we know the vast majority of you are upset and we will look into what we can change for the ending." There have been a couple vague statements alluding to this, but nothing concrete or direct.

I love you Bioware, if you were a real woman, I'd romance you harder than Shepard's fist in Al-Jilani's face. But please, understand what the majority is trying to say, and ignore those who are trying to attack you..

Modifié par twizbuck, 29 mars 2012 - 03:01 .

[kidbd15]

Hi Mr. Woo, Mr. Epler, and the rest of BioWare, have you guys seen this video:



I think it is the best thing to listen/watch if you really want to understand our gripe with the ending.
Please watch if you haven't done so.

Thanks!

Modifié par kidbd15, 29 mars 2012 - 03:03 .

[Diablos2525]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Paparob wrote...

I don't blame you Stanley, I have no ill will towards you personally perhaps since I'm civil with you might be able to answer a few questions for me. I promise nothing inflammatory or above your pay grade.

1) I understand there is a lot over analyzing on the fans part, I can agree its can get a bit out of hand but why do you feel that fans are speculating on Bioware statements to such a degree?

Because as much as people will threaten to leave the community, to never buy another BioWare product again, to never listen to thing we say again, there is a shred of hope that many in the community will hang onto. Now matter how demoralized people get, no mater how angry and frustrated they may feel, they really, really, really, really, really want to hear that their issues have been "fixed."

At the moment, however, the wounds are too large and too deep, so they scour all of BioWare's comments in an effort to find either those comments that keep their hope alive and/or those that they feel justify their furstration, hatred, or anger.

though it may seem contrary, this is a testament to how much our game has affected our fans and how much they care about our game and the franchise, and we can't (and don't) blame them for that.

2) How much of a dialogue do you have with the developers?

Little.

Thank you for being frank with us.

[Kanner]

Patience is the one thing I have to offer here. It is incredibly important that anything that is being done is done right, and not rushed, cheapened, or otherwise half-assed for the sake of preserving someone's ego or career.

As for the rest, well:

"Diplomacy is great when it works, but difficult when everyone already perceives you as a threat."

[The Angry One]

John Epler wrote...

Well, I can't speak for the ME team, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding exactly how things move in a company the size of BioWare, especially one that's publicly traded. Not your guys' fault - you have no real need to know what goes on internally, you're not employees. But there are things we can say in public, things we can't, and things we can say, but only when they're approved by the appropriate parties (legal, etc.) Not to mention that, in a situation where there's as much emotion on the line as there is here, you want to be very careful as to what you say because, hey, people are going to react, and you don't want an ill-conceived word sending everyone into a frenzy.

I imagine that, when they are able to say more, they'll say more. I'd counsel patience, although I understand that, when you're passionate about an issue, that's easier said than done. Most of you have been quite civil and polite, and we thank you for that. But vitriol and insults from the vocal minority who -aren't- able to remain civil isn't going to make things go faster. I hate saying 'it'll happen when it happens', but that's largely true with bigger companies. It's not always ideal, but it's a fact of life and business.

That's understandable, and I appreciate you explaining this.
It looks like you understand that people are going to get frustrated, and I doubt this will stop until we actually do get some concrete answers.
I hope that you can be equally patient with us, we wouldn't react this way if we didn't all love BioWare.

[Faerlyte]

Sohlito wrote...

Faerlyte wrote...

Sohlito wrote...

I wonder if I'll get in trouble for quoting my own response to a quote, just so it can get read...

Amazing how often that happens, especially if you're someone who doesn't post often and therefore nobody recognizes.

There are preferentials for posts? Or posters in this case.

I am a lurker/observor. It is my known place in life to occasionally make an appearance and occasionally be heard when I do. Not always, but sometimes.

The problem with this topic is it's like beating your head against a wall. You're really not making any progress no matter what you say.

Modifié par Faerlyte, 29 mars 2012 - 03:02 .

[Karrie788]

John Epler wrote...

twizbuck wrote...

John Epler wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

When a group gets to a certain size, you can have the majority of that group be civil and respectful and yet still have dozens who are hostile and aggressive. And while that still may be the minority of that group, it can be difficult to make the mental separation when you're being insulted and threatened by that many people on a daily basis.

No tune-changin' here, just the realities of scale.

Then look at it in percentages. How many people have been positive in their response, and how many have been negative, in relation to the whole. I understand what you're saying, but some of the things Mr. Woo has said on here are... rather discerning.

And that's fair, but at the same time - we're human. When you have fifteen, or twenty, or twenty five people sending you incredibly insulting PMs and essentially telling you that you need to either A) be fired or come to physical harm, it can colour your opinion a bit. I'd like to say we all have thick skins and can take that sort of abuse, but that'd be untrue. We all deal with it differently, of course, but at the end of the day we're still human. Particularly as Stan does most of his interactions with the community outside of his work hours because he's really passionate about the community and is one of your greatest advocates within the company - he's not being paid when he's on these forums.

I spent enough time on the DA2 forums post-release to know where he's coming from. Even if, intellectually, you know that they're only a small percentage, it still hurts, and it can still be rather aggravating.

I think we can understand that, and I hate to see trolls pop up everywhere on the forums demanding for BW people to be fired. But please know that we love the game. We love you guys. We wouldn't be "up in arms" about the endings if that wasn't the case.

[ZiegenkonigIII]

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...

Wow. I just can't believe what a PR nightmare bioware keeps making for themselves. Between the twitters and statements by different employees. They don't seem to be in sync. One statement says we are taking feedback into account, someone else says they aren't changing anything, just elaborating and clarifying, another will hint that the ending might have been the ID theory, one says just wait until sometime in April.
I really feel jerked around. I think, besides frustration with the ending, that my biggest problem is that nobody from bioware is giving us a strait answer. What a mess.

Which is why so many people are outraged.  Stanley making the comments he did does absolutely nothing to help this case, if anything it worsens it.

[JaylaClark]

John Epler wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

When a group gets to a certain size, you can have the majority of that group be civil and respectful and yet still have dozens who are hostile and aggressive. And while that still may be the minority of that group, it can be difficult to make the mental separation when you're being insulted and threatened by that many people on a daily basis.

No tune-changin' here, just the realities of scale.

I think there's a slight bit of anger, or stress, coming out in Mr. Woo's statements as well, but you're right. I am doing my best to channel my frustration into civil discussion. Most of us are. But a lot of us have gotten riled up by the constant dissection of words to find what we want, the people saying we should never compromise, and the simple fact that no one has come out and said 'You're right and we ARE changing the endings AND it's on the schedule".

But as that one article from Metagamer puts it, frustration is the opposite of living. And we are frustrated. The frustration comes from how this so badly affected us three weeks ago, and we need it fixed before some of us can literally stomach playing the otherwise-best-game-ever created...

Let's put it this way. There have been returns allowed on this game. I'll bet a million credits that not one of us talking right now have taken advantage of amazon.com's offer to allow them. Because we're so attached to this universe that it's not an option, that we need to keep our games with our one finished playthrough, and we need our  closure so badly so that we don't break down emotionally when our next play of Lair of the Shadow Broker hits and we hear Shepard promise Liara she's coming back... and we know that's not going to happen... ... damn. I'm doing it now.

I cannot stress this enough. I've played all these games about a total of four hundred hours. I know these characters better than I know a lot of my family. And I want to know how they turn out... and you're definitely not giving us a playable epilogue with what the ending changes, so I need it in the actual ending.

Of course, if you're really going on to Mass Effect 4, and you need to save something for that... BioWare should've told us that by now. Plus I can't believe there's anything that can follow this up at all. Prequels never work properly, with the possible exception of MGS3. Nothing could top the Reapers as a threat just like nobody can top Voldemort in the Harry Potter Verse. But I'll still say 'someone should have told us they're breaking the trilogy before releasing an ending that answers nothing'.

[Dragoonlordz]

Greer wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

Is it wrong everytime I read a reply of yours I read it in Jacob's voice?


OT: Most fans have been good sports, and a concrete statement without looping around the issue would be nice, some people are boiling up, others are being extremist, but I still feel like we've been given crumbs and are expected to smile all the way into April.

Well, I can't speak for the ME team, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding exactly how things move in a company the size of BioWare, especially one that's publicly traded. Not your guys' fault - you have no real need to know what goes on internally, you're not employees. But there are things we can say in public, things we can't, and things we can say, but only when they're approved by the appropriate parties (legal, etc.) Not to mention that, in a situation where there's as much emotion on the line as there is here, you want to be very careful as to what you say because, hey, people are going to react, and you don't want an ill-conceived word sending everyone into a frenzy.

I imagine that, when they are able to say more, they'll say more. I'd counsel patience, although I understand that, when you're passionate about an issue, that's easier said than done. Most of you have been quite civil and polite, and we thank you for that. But vitriol and insults from the vocal minority who -aren't- able to remain civil isn't going to make things go faster. I hate saying 'it'll happen when it happens', but that's largely true with bigger companies. It's not always ideal, but it's a fact of life and business.

I don't know what goes on directly at Bioware, I admit that up front. However, I am no stranger to how large corporations in general work and understand that sometimes you can't say what you might like, or that you have to speak in vaguearies due to legal issues.

However.

None  of that is an excuse for the blatant trolling some of your staff have done to the fanbase. I can go pull up tweets from Chris Priestley that insinuate ReTakers are idiots. I have screenshots of the official masseffect twitter responding favorably to someone who called ReTakers (and thus a majority of your fanbase) vile things I can't repeat here. Woo himself has been trolling us since this thread opened.

Complete stonewalling isn't the answer either.

There exists a middle ground between blocking us out entirely and insulting and belittling us. It would probably behoove Bioware to find it.

I bet you can't. Also insinuation is no better than assumption. One thing it is not, is exactly what they said.

[Mesmurae]

panamakira wrote...

Yeah so much for "vocal minority". LOL. The point is we're still holding the line. Even if we don't get anything in the end, the fact everybody got together, one way or another to let BioWare know about how disappointed we were with the ending is might awesome.

Keep Holding the Line!

'Vocal Minority' is a funny term to me.

I do not believe for one second that the people who are upset with the ending are a minority.

Six is the number of people I interact with (in person) on a daily basis who purchased Mass Effect 3 and are angry with the ending. Zero of them actually have accounts here on BSN.

Zero is also the number of people I personally know who are satisfied with the ending. If you group the people who are dissatisfied with the ending together, the 'vocal' ones (us) are a minority.

But as I said before, I believe that the people who actually enjoy the current ending are the true minority.

Modifié par Mesmurae, 29 mars 2012 - 03:05 .

[ShepnTali]

I'm more heartbroken over the whole thing, than anything. No form of entertainment media has ever affected me like this before. That really says something.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

can we use this power for good now? Like getting a Miranda vs Ashley baby oil  fight scene?

Agreed.

[leondes1]

John Epler wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

Is it wrong everytime I read a reply of yours I read it in Jacob's voice?


OT: Most fans have been good sports, and a concrete statement without looping around the issue would be nice, some people are boiling up, others are being extremist, but I still feel like we've been given crumbs and are expected to smile all the way into April.

Well, I can't speak for the ME team, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding exactly how things move in a company the size of BioWare, especially one that's publicly traded. Not your guys' fault - you have no real need to know what goes on internally, you're not employees. But there are things we can say in public, things we can't, and things we can say, but only when they're approved by the appropriate parties (legal, etc.) Not to mention that, in a situation where there's as much emotion on the line as there is here, you want to be very careful as to what you say because, hey, people are going to react, and you don't want an ill-conceived word sending everyone into a frenzy.

I imagine that, when they are able to say more, they'll say more. I'd counsel patience, although I understand that, when you're passionate about an issue, that's easier said than done. Most of you have been quite civil and polite, and we thank you for that. But vitriol and insults from the vocal minority who -aren't- able to remain civil isn't going to make things go faster. I hate saying 'it'll happen when it happens', but that's largely true with bigger companies. It's not always ideal, but it's a fact of life and business.

This people, seriously.

This

Thank you for this statement, I really hope people read this because it’s completely true. I work
for a major company myself. There is no way you can expect such a direct
response when something of such company affecting magnitude comes out.
So much must be considered; so many channels must be gone through before a
direct response happens. Its business, it’s how it works.

We have a date range, that in of itself, is promise. 

Modifié par leondes1, 29 mars 2012 - 03:05 .

[alx119]

John Epler wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

Is it wrong everytime I read a reply of yours I read it in Jacob's voice?


OT: Most fans have been good sports, and a concrete statement without looping around the issue would be nice, some people are boiling up, others are being extremist, but I still feel like we've been given crumbs and are expected to smile all the way into April.

Well, I can't speak for the ME team, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding exactly how things move in a company the size of BioWare, especially one that's publicly traded. Not your guys' fault - you have no real need to know what goes on internally, you're not employees. But there are things we can say in public, things we can't, and things we can say, but only when they're approved by the appropriate parties (legal, etc.) Not to mention that, in a situation where there's as much emotion on the line as there is here, you want to be very careful as to what you say because, hey, people are going to react, and you don't want an ill-conceived word sending everyone into a frenzy.

I imagine that, when they are able to say more, they'll say more. I'd counsel patience, although I understand that, when you're passionate about an issue, that's easier said than done. Most of you have been quite civil and polite, and we thank you for that. But vitriol and insults from the vocal minority who -aren't- able to remain civil isn't going to make things go faster. I hate saying 'it'll happen when it happens', but that's largely true with bigger companies. It's not always ideal, but it's a fact of life and business.

You know what, THANK YOU. Thank you for at least saying you UNDERSTAND. You don't know how much you've relieved me of "grudge" right about now. I've been accumulating a bit of a negative sentiment against BioWare (when I never wanted to in the first place) for the lack of communication and how they seem to just "dance around the problem" instead of adressing it. 

And although I already acknowledged all the things you said, as it is a big company, and it's how it always has been. It's NICE to at least have a little of understanding from said company in words like this.

Even if in the end you guys decide to stick with your guns and not change nor adress anything, if at least there's that understanding in the middle, to me, and I can safely talk for quite some more people, it wouldn't be as much of a big deal as it is now. "We're sorry, we know it must be frusttrating but we aren't changing anything. It's how we always intended to make the game, we're sorry it did not met your expectatives, but we did try." <- Something the likes of this would be nice. It would create a lot of debate, and a lot of sad and angry faces, but at least it'd show a little concern and understanding, even though not fixing the problem. Now of course the perfect thing in this case I believe it would be: "For now we can't say anything in regards of any changes in the content of the game, we are sorry and understand your frustration, but we thank you for your patience and apologize for any inconvenience." But what we got now just... Feels like they are talking down on us. Again, -feels-.

The statements we got so far were condescending and they felt at best disregarding towards our discontent. As if they were not listening at all. And that's the major problem, in my honest opinion. 

[Qutayba]

I don't think anyone on this thread is advocating rudeness and destructive tactics. At most, I think some posters are simply trying to explain why some of that exists. The question is: What can we do about it? As fans, other than calling out incivility when we see it and trying to be out there to represent a more civil discussion, I don't think there's much else we can do. If the mods have some other suggestions, I would love to hear them, because I would like nothing more than to have more civil discussions going on.

[Schief724]

John Epler wrote...

Well, I can't speak for the ME team, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding exactly how things move in a company the size of BioWare, especially one that's publicly traded. Not your guys' fault - you have no real need to know what goes on internally, you're not employees. But there are things we can say in public, things we can't, and things we can say, but only when they're approved by the appropriate parties (legal, etc.) Not to mention that, in a situation where there's as much emotion on the line as there is here, you want to be very careful as to what you say because, hey, people are going to react, and you don't want an ill-conceived word sending everyone into a frenzy.

I imagine that, when they are able to say more, they'll say more. I'd counsel patience, although I understand that, when you're passionate about an issue, that's easier said than done. Most of you have been quite civil and polite, and we thank you for that. But vitriol and insults from the vocal minority who -aren't- able to remain civil isn't going to make things go faster. I hate saying 'it'll happen when it happens', but that's largely true with bigger companies. It's not always ideal, but it's a fact of life and business.

The majority of the people here do understand that certain boundaries can't be crossed when dealing with the public for the reasons you specified. We also appreciate every one of you taking the time to come here and talk with us. Sometimes things get heated because we all love this franchise so much, and truely care about seeing it returned to it's rightful place among the best games of all time, but we get frustrated with how we are being talked to.

All I can say is that most of us at this point want somebody to just come out and say they understand what our grievances are. I mean actually spell them out. Maybe not all of them, but at least some of them to prove to all of us that you in fact do understand our side of the debate. That would go a long way to calming the flames IMO. We just want to know you guys get it. I mean I think we all know that we aren't going to get everything we want, because that's never realistic in any negotiation. Just as long as you let us know that you are working on trying to address as many of the issues as possible while remaining true to your vision for the game.

[Mr Indivisible]

John Epler wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

Is it wrong everytime I read a reply of yours I read it in Jacob's voice?


OT: Most fans have been good sports, and a concrete statement without looping around the issue would be nice, some people are boiling up, others are being extremist, but I still feel like we've been given crumbs and are expected to smile all the way into April.

Well, I can't speak for the ME team, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding exactly how things move in a company the size of BioWare, especially one that's publicly traded. Not your guys' fault - you have no real need to know what goes on internally, you're not employees. But there are things we can say in public, things we can't, and things we can say, but only when they're approved by the appropriate parties (legal, etc.) Not to mention that, in a situation where there's as much emotion on the line as there is here, you want to be very careful as to what you say because, hey, people are going to react, and you don't want an ill-conceived word sending everyone into a frenzy.

I imagine that, when they are able to say more, they'll say more. I'd counsel patience, although I understand that, when you're passionate about an issue, that's easier said than done. Most of you have been quite civil and polite, and we thank you for that. But vitriol and insults from the vocal minority who -aren't- able to remain civil isn't going to make things go faster. I hate saying 'it'll happen when it happens', but that's largely true with bigger companies. It's not always ideal, but it's a fact of life and business.

I respect that, and so do many others (I hope) and I do feel for the teams, this kind of media/fan attention isn't what anyone at Bioware wanted. 

As a public company you have real limitations on what can and can't be said and when to say it. I imagine there is a lot of pressure at Bioware (even potentially EA) to address this, and address it well. I hope you (Bioware) address it well, and that politicing don't ruin the response (whatever it may be).

I'm hoping for a better ending (better, not happier), the trilogy deserves a masterful ending, and as you know, there are plenty of well written/articulated articles that point out why the ending fails on a narrative level. I am hoping this is addressed, I don't care how the game ends, but for me the current experence is so jarringly out of sync with the rest of the story, I can't bring myself to play any of them again.

I hope its fixed so I can go back and play ME1, 2, 3 and future DLC/universe expansions.

In the meantime, enjoy your cupcakes.