1334 réponses à ce sujet

[twizbuck]

John Epler wrote...

twizbuck wrote...

John Epler wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

When a group gets to a certain size, you can have the majority of that group be civil and respectful and yet still have dozens who are hostile and aggressive. And while that still may be the minority of that group, it can be difficult to make the mental separation when you're being insulted and threatened by that many people on a daily basis.

No tune-changin' here, just the realities of scale.

Then look at it in percentages. How many people have been positive in their response, and how many have been negative, in relation to the whole. I understand what you're saying, but some of the things Mr. Woo has said on here are... rather discerning.

And that's fair, but at the same time - we're human. When you have fifteen, or twenty, or twenty five people sending you incredibly insulting PMs and essentially telling you that you need to either A) be fired or come to physical harm, it can colour your opinion a bit. I'd like to say we all have thick skins and can take that sort of abuse, but that'd be untrue. We all deal with it differently, of course, but at the end of the day we're still human. Particularly as Stan does most of his interactions with the community outside of his work hours because he's really passionate about the community and is one of your greatest advocates within the company - he's not being paid when he's on these forums.

I spent enough time on the DA2 forums post-release to know where he's coming from. Even if, intellectually, you know that they're only a small percentage, it still hurts, and it can still be rather aggravating.

I can respect this. Thank you for your comments.

[N7L4D]

Let's go Stanley, dats my big homie

[kzao88]

Mr. Woo,

+1 for being awesome.

[WildcardCharlie]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Because as much as people will threaten to leave the community, to never buy another BioWare product again, to never listen to thing we say again, there is a shred of hope that many in the community will hang onto. Now matter how demoralized people get, no mater how angry and frustrated they may feel, they really, really, really, really, really want to hear that their issues have been "fixed."

Believe me...that shred of hope we're hanging on to gets smaller every day, or with every new statement.

Modifié par WildcardCharlie, 29 mars 2012 - 03:05 .

[The Angry One]

What you have to understand about the threatening PMs is most of us are completely oblivious to that.
I'm sure from your perspectives it must appear like the enemy's at the gates, but over here we're just trying to make our points known.

I don't expect any leniency for people who'd be so crass as to attack BioWare employees, but we are not them.

[panamakira]

I leave for a couple of days and check back today and we're back to getting aggressive huh?

Can we just calm down until we get an announcement? We're not doing ourselves a favor by getting riled up again. Let's be civil about it.

On the other hand, like someone mentioned above we're still sticking around because we still have some small hope that things will get fixed, will get better for the game. We're just that passionate about the game. It's unfortunate that because of the rudeness of a few, the whole group gets a bad reputation.

Modifié par panamakira, 29 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[Geneaux486]

Care to provide a better one?

Yah-huh!

The Krogan on Tuchunga are led by Eve while the ones on Earth are led by Wrex, and they survive off emergency rations and agriculture until the Reapers rebuild the Mass Relays.  Nothing in-game states this is impossible, or even unlikely, thereby making it a better case scenario than the one you described.

Yes i'm going to ignore the fact that the Reapers have ANY possible positive capacity.

I appreciate your honesty.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 29 mars 2012 - 03:07 .

[Exeider]

Blackmind1 wrote...

Exeider wrote...

Blackmind1 wrote...

Just to let everyone know; This amount of mass childish behaviour and angry ranting is exactly why they haven't engaged you yet. Stanley came down to show that the team respects all of our thoughts, and you jumped down his throat.

This is how I know you're all still children. You want respect? Show respect.

respect is earned and given, not taken and entitled. You might want to think about this for a second. When they handed us that ending (probably KNOWING it wasnt going to go down well) and then gave us a prompt to buy more content, that was a slap in the face and a general sign of disrespect.

Why should i give someone respect that clearly shows me none.
-AE

Every single person, no matter what, is entitled to respect from a fellow human being (Unless they've killed a baby or raped somebody). Showing respect, even when somebody has wronged you, is a sign of maturity and understanding.

As far as I know, Bioware haven't killed any babies, so they will continue to be given respect, especially when their respect is given to me by people such as Stanley. 

Delivering a bad ending and then trying their damned hardest to clean up the fallout is not a sign of disrespect. When the companies founder himself addresses your problem, you've got the respect you should need. You then begin repaying in turn.

At least, that's how an adult would act.

you mean the response where the companies founder tries to wave away the critics by pointing out how much positive review they have received? from the same reviewers who call those who want the ending changed, the vocal minority, or entitled, and other phrases i care not to repeat. You mean that address?

How an adult would act is they would come forward and admit when they've screwed up, not hide behind PR written speaches and silence. The fact that such speeches are long winded only shows that it dances around the point.

a simple phrase albeit blunt "We screwed up, we realize this now, and we are endevouring to fix. expect an update even if its just a check in or status update by BLANK."

cleaning it up, more like trying to dig themselves out of a hole, its an attempted face saving measure to clean up the fact that they royally screwed up, because simply ignoring the problem wasn't making it go away. It's the "annoying neighbors" routine, as in 'maybe if we pretend we aren't here they will just go away.' maneuver.

-AE

[MetalCargo999]

Greer wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

Is it wrong everytime I read a reply of yours I read it in Jacob's voice?


OT: Most fans have been good sports, and a concrete statement without looping around the issue would be nice, some people are boiling up, others are being extremist, but I still feel like we've been given crumbs and are expected to smile all the way into April.

Well, I can't speak for the ME team, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding exactly how things move in a company the size of BioWare, especially one that's publicly traded. Not your guys' fault - you have no real need to know what goes on internally, you're not employees. But there are things we can say in public, things we can't, and things we can say, but only when they're approved by the appropriate parties (legal, etc.) Not to mention that, in a situation where there's as much emotion on the line as there is here, you want to be very careful as to what you say because, hey, people are going to react, and you don't want an ill-conceived word sending everyone into a frenzy.

I imagine that, when they are able to say more, they'll say more. I'd counsel patience, although I understand that, when you're passionate about an issue, that's easier said than done. Most of you have been quite civil and polite, and we thank you for that. But vitriol and insults from the vocal minority who -aren't- able to remain civil isn't going to make things go faster. I hate saying 'it'll happen when it happens', but that's largely true with bigger companies. It's not always ideal, but it's a fact of life and business.

I don't know what goes on directly at Bioware, I admit that up front. However, I am no stranger to how large corporations in general work and understand that sometimes you can't say what you might like, or that you have to speak in vaguearies due to legal issues.

However.

None  of that is an excuse for the blatant trolling some of your staff have done to the fanbase. I can go pull up tweets from Chris Priestley that insinuate ReTakers are idiots. I have screenshots of the official masseffect twitter responding favorably to someone who called ReTakers (and thus a majority of your fanbase) vile things I can't repeat here. Woo himself has been trolling us since this thread opened.

Complete stonewalling isn't the answer either.

There exists a middle ground between blocking us out entirely and insulting and belittling us. It would probably behoove Bioware to find it.

Granted.  But the cycle of hatred (ie trolling) needs to stop with one of the two parties involved, otherwise it will continue forever.  Let the cycle end with you! (by "you" I mean people in general, not you specifically)

When I first got on this forum I was so angry that I peppered some of my responses with barely disguised insults.  I realized after a while that I was just being immature, so I emasculated myself and publically apologized on one of the threads.  CYCLE BROKEN!!!!!

[twizbuck]

The Angry One wrote...

What you have to understand about the threatening PMs is most of us are completely oblivious to that.
I'm sure from your perspectives it must appear like the enemy's at the gates, but over here we're just trying to make our points known.

I don't expect any leniency for people who'd be so crass as to attack BioWare employees, but we are not them.

Excellent post.

[Dragoonlordz]

kzao88 wrote...

Mr. Woo,

+1 for being awesome.

Yeh I like Woo, he keeps suspending me but I like him all the same. He has the direct no nonsense approach to human interaction which I respect. I also respect John and Chris too but Stanley for a different reason, the reason just mentioned.

[The Angry One]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Yah-huh!

The Krogan on Tuchunga are led by Eve while the ones on Earth are led by Wrex, and they survive off emergency rations and agriculture until the Reapers rebuild the Mass Relays.  Nothing in-game states this is impossible, or even unlikely, thereby making it a better case scenario than the one you described.

That's certainly... imaginative.

[DarthSyphilis59]

Mr. Woo,
You have probably seen my comments and posts over the last few weeks. Some of them were made in shock and anger, some in jest as an attempt to alleviate my disappointment. I will do my best to be more civil and be patient. Just know that most of us are here because we love your series, it was supposed to be the Star Wars of our generation. We want it to be a game we can tell our friends about again. That's what I want for Mass Effect. I took a week off from work to play the game with my wife, and I wanted to go back and tell all my work buddies how awesome it was. I will maintain hope, and try to tone down my comments and be patient. I just feel that so much of the PR response has not been consistent, and has caused more divide and confusion as a result.

[Dr_Hello]

Icinix wrote...

I actually don't think BioWare fans should be on there.

But how about.."Consumers". The thing people seem to forget is that as consumers they have the power of their money. Companies can only survive or die because of their consumers.

For fans, it's not about the money, it's about the love and connection they have with, in this case, the game called Mass Effect. I wouldn't reduce the fans to being simply consumers with money.

[liggy002]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Bioware has proven themselves to listen to fans with regards to Mass Effect. We see it in the changes they made to the second game, and to the third, and in the DLC they put out for Mass Effect 2. I think they would have listened to fan criticism about the ending no matter what form it came in.

Yup, we would have, just as we've done for the last (at least) 10 years.

I'm of the personal opinion that you have something very special planned for the ending and this is something you have been planning since the game's release.  Of course I don't expect you to comment on this because you are under an NDA.  Certain discussions are not authorized.  I understand that.  I recently worked on a game project myself so I get the idea.  I might say that I simultaneously hate and love the ending.  I hate it if it is taken literally but love it if it fits with a certain theory.  The fact that I partiallty do not like the ending is nothing against you guys.  That's just my personal opinion.  The Bioware team has produced exceptional games and I have no doubt that they will continue to do so.  As it is,  I am playing Dragon Age 2 and I greatly enjoy it despite the heat it has taken.  The fans of Mass Effect have exhibited a great deal of passion: from donating cupcakes that are the color red, blue, and green to Bioware to donating $80,000 to a children's charity.  That is fantastic and while some might call them obsessive losers who need to get a life,  I would call them persisent individuals who are willing to take action for something they love.  They want to be heard and they want to make sure that Bioware is listening.  This is fine if done in a constructive manner as you have stated, but those who engage in destructive behavior should not be allowed to tarnish the image of these fans.  This is not the whole of the fanbase.  They are not whiny and entitled.  They just seek more closure because they love the characters you created so much.  Do not be insulted, the fans are so angry because they expect a lot out of you because they know that you have produced nothing short of brilliant work.  Do not be hurt because of this.  The fans truly love you guys even if they have a funny way of showing it.

[Dreogan]

I still miss Stanley's volus avatar. Just sayin'.

[Kashola]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Care to provide a better one?

Yah-huh!

The Krogan on Tuchunga are led by Eve while the ones on Earth are led by Wrex, and they survive off emergency rations and agriculture until the Reapers rebuild the Mass Relays.  Nothing in-game states this is impossible, or even unlikely, thereby making it a better case scenario than the one you described.

Yes i'm going to ignore the fact that the Reapers have ANY possible positive capacity.

I appreciate your honesty.

Good job ignoring the entire paragraph i wrote out becuase you couldn't muster up a proper repsonse.  You aren't debating, you are trolling, thus you should be ignored.

[Megachaz]

Icinix wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Paparob wrote...

I don't blame you Stanley, I have no ill will towards you personally perhaps since I'm civil with you might be able to answer a few questions for me. I promise nothing inflammatory or above your pay grade.

1) I understand there is a lot over analyzing on the fans part, I can agree its can get a bit out of hand but why do you feel that fans are speculating on Bioware statements to such a degree?

Because as much as people will threaten to leave the community, to never buy another BioWare product again, to never listen to thing we say again, there is a shred of hope that many in the community will hang onto. Now matter how demoralized people get, no mater how angry and frustrated they may feel, they really, really, really, really, really want to hear that their issues have been "fixed."

At the moment, however, the wounds are too large and too deep, so they scour all of BioWare's comments in an effort to find either those comments that keep their hope alive and/or those that they feel justify their furstration, hatred, or anger.

though it may seem contrary, this is a testament to how much our game has affected our fans and how much they care about our game and the franchise, and we can't (and don't) blame them for that.

2) How much of a dialogue do you have with the developers?

Little.

I wonder...does anyone within BioWare ever think..

"Why, oh why didn't we just copy another game and slap a new coat of paint on it, rather than create these awesome amazing worlds people would get sucked into so totally?"

They did.  It's called SWTOR 

[lillitheris]

So… um. Yeah.

I'm going to chalk this thread up to mutual frustration and call it good.

I'm going to go play some ME1 now. And/or doodle some blue babies on a notepad.

[Sesshaku]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Skirlasvoud wrote...

And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.

Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.

And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?

Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.

I assure you, i dare you to say on this forums "We will change the ending and give you what we orginally promised".

Im pretty sure 90% will say FINALLY!! awesome, and thanks you so much.

It's not that hard isn't it?.

[Stanley Woo]

Folks, please note that if the entirety of your post is a meme image or "hold the line," it will be considered spam and will be removed. Thank you.

[alx119]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Paparob wrote...

I don't blame you Stanley, I have no ill will towards you personally perhaps since I'm civil with you might be able to answer a few questions for me. I promise nothing inflammatory or above your pay grade.

1) I understand there is a lot over analyzing on the fans part, I can agree its can get a bit out of hand but why do you feel that fans are speculating on Bioware statements to such a degree?

Because as much as people will threaten to leave the community, to never buy another BioWare product again, to never listen to thing we say again, there is a shred of hope that many in the community will hang onto. Now matter how demoralized people get, no mater how angry and frustrated they may feel, they really, really, really, really, really want to hear that their issues have been "fixed."

At the moment, however, the wounds are too large and too deep, so they scour all of BioWare's comments in an effort to find either those comments that keep their hope alive and/or those that they feel justify their furstration, hatred, or anger.

though it may seem contrary, this is a testament to how much our game has affected our fans and how much they care about our game and the franchise, and we can't (and don't) blame them for that.

2) How much of a dialogue do you have with the developers?

Little.

A very, very good point that I agree with, that's how the human mind works, and glad to see that you also acknowledge the problem.

The bad thing about how things "feel" around, is that they are that, feelings, not what actually happens. Which is a shame, because you probably have nothing to do with the actual problem. 

[Spectre_Shepard]

Ah, bioware. I love you guys.

Hopefully in April you'll send some love my way.....

[leondes1]

Sesshaku wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Skirlasvoud wrote...

And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.

Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.

And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?

Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.

I assure you, i dare you to say on this forums "We will change the ending and give you what we orginally promised".

Im pretty sure 90% will say FINALLY!! awesome, and thanks you so much.

It's not that hard isn't it?.

Ya but not at the cost of Stanley's job my friend.