1334 réponses à ce sujet

[Stanley Woo]

commander_shepard wrote...
I wouldn't mind if you flew me to Edmonton and showed me what you guys are working on to assuage me.

If you flew up here on your own dime and showed up at the office, I would consent to buy you a tasty beverage to assuage you, but that's about it.

[TheOptimist]

Opsrbest wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

What you have to understand about the threatening PMs is most of us are completely oblivious to that.
I'm sure from your perspectives it must appear like the enemy's at the gates, but over here we're just trying to make our points known.

I don't expect any leniency for people who'd be so crass as to attack BioWare employees, but we are not them.

But you will get lumped in with them. I'm trying to remember the adage .... it has something to do with association ......

Well that's a two way street. 

Also, having the same opinion as someone does not "associate" us with them no more than, say, voting for the same political leader associates me with someone who turns out to be a violent criminal.
Yes yes not a great analogy, but you get the point.

It's actually a good analogy for your point.

I still can't remember the adage.

It's called guilt by association, and it does work both ways.  IGN, destructoid, and previous Kotaku articles have done pro-enders no favors.

[withneelandi]

John Epler wrote...

I don't think name calling and personal attacks help anyone's case, regardless of who they are and who they're referring to. That's as much of a statement as you'll get from me on any articles related to any of this, sorry. It's not really my place - I'm not on the ME team. Now, if you want my opinion on DA related stuff... well, I can't say much there, either. Whoops.

You literally had me going for a second.......

I was about to ask you to comment on the comedy "mass effect is the same universe as dragon age" theory.

I'm telling you, Corpheus was the trapped spirit of a Reaper and that thing they reffered to under Val Royeux is a crashed long burried Reaper.







(I'm kidding, please don't think i'm a looney)

[Wolfsong27]

Thank you John and Woo for jumping in :3


In my own opinion, I'd like to believe Bioware/EA/The big cheese had to know that ending this way would cause quite a stir, and I think they do have a card or two up their sleeve. (I'm leaning towards the indoc theory myself, but hey, you need to hold onto hope however you can find it.)
However, I don't think they were expecting this kind of -volume- of response.
... Heck I didn't either. I never thought the end of a video game would bring to me to tears like this one did. (And I don't mean a little hiccup either.)

I'm highly curious to see what comes about in April.
But my main thought is, that even if Bioware has a magic bandaid DLC that makes this all better, how many fans will really completely forgive?
The first thought that comes to mind is a boyfriend that backhands you and then buys you flowers. Not that I like what that implies, but I'm still a bit raw with emotion and my cheek does still sting.

I just wonder if Bioware would do this all over again, if they knew what kind of mess it would cause.
No matter how amazing I'm hoping the DLC to be, I don't think I could forget the hurt. I wonder if I'm the only one.

[JaylaClark]

John Epler wrote...

I don't think name calling and personal attacks help anyone's case, regardless of who they are and who they're referring to. That's as much of a statement as you'll get from me on any articles related to any of this, sorry. It's not really my place - I'm not on the ME team. Now, if you want my opinion on DA related stuff... well, I can't say much there, either. Whoops.

Exactly, sir! :happy:

I do think you did a good job of expressing the quandry you, Stanley, and Jessica are directly in, as well as alluding to how much difficulty Dr. Ray on down have with this problem. Even HE can't say anything more than he did.

What really needs to be done ... I hate to say it, but I think your company needs to tighten control of the message. And stop using 'vocal minority' because that's our rage button apparently. (The vocal minority that kept a game with a distressing ending and are fighting to make it less distressing, as opposed to all those people who just sold the game back at Gamestop because they just decided 'this has no replay value' after said ending? We **** because we care . You guys already know that, and I bet it was all to assure stockholders sales wouldn't be down from this, but the term 'most dedicated and passionate fans' is a good place to go instead. Because it's true .)

So I may tap out of this thread, but thank you for talking, and see if you can pass on the idea that we need as many words as we can be given. Kthxbai :happy:

[MetalCargo999]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Wasn't this originally about a congratulatory thread about our efforts and now it's devolved into a thread about how bad we are? Due in no small part to the timely intervention of BW's PR team.

Probably just a coincidence.

hahahahahahaha.............  wait...

[Exeider]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Paparob wrote...

I was actually building towards that. Well I hope you don't mind me asking but did you? Just as one fan to another, I'm curious to see if you picked the game up recently or if you've been following the series for a while.

Edit: Off topic slightly but how is that a hard question? lol Also feel free to jump in with questions if you have them, its not like I'm the designated "Questioner of Stanley Woo" 

I have not played the series from start to finish, though I worked on Mass effect 2.

ok in that case, then please do, I would request that you play ME1 to the end, do every side mission, import to ME 2, recruit everyone, do every side mission, every loyalty mission, then import to ME3, recruit everyone, do every side mission, and get to the end.

in short, I want YOU, Stanley Woo, to drop 100 hours into Mass Effect, and get to the end, and tell me it ISN'T Anti-climactic.

edit: and video tape your reaction, i wanna see this.

-AE

Modifié par Exeider, 29 mars 2012 - 03:40 .

[Geneaux486]

Mbednar wrote...

And now you are trolling one another.

Will you please stop bickering with each other.

Obviously you both choose to disagree.  Fighting won't change that.  So walk away.

It gets annoying when both people end up resorting to trolling one another >,<

I have as much right to post in this topic as anyone else, so don't single me out.  I'm not trolling anyone.  Ignoring people who outright say they're going to ignore aspects of the game is a rational response, and most anyone else would do the same thing in my shoes.

[cec_121088]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Paparob wrote...

I was actually building towards that. Well I hope you don't mind me asking but did you? Just as one fan to another, I'm curious to see if you picked the game up recently or if you've been following the series for a while.

Edit: Off topic slightly but how is that a hard question? lol Also feel free to jump in with questions if you have them, its not like I'm the designated "Questioner of Stanley Woo" 

I have not played the series from start to finish, though I worked on Mass effect 2.

Great, now we've ruined the ending for Stanley. Way to go, BSN.

[WildcardCharlie]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Wasn't this originally about a congratulatory thread about our efforts and now it's devolved into a thread about how bad we are? Due in no small part to the timely intervention of BW's PR team.

Probably just a coincidence.

Also this.

[DJBare]

John, Stanley, you say your views are coloured by the hate mail you got and such, how about checking out the mega thread, the people in there have been bloody remarkable, I mean really, instead of allowing the hate to colour your view, why not take some time to actually look at the numbers who have been incredibly civil throughout all of this.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/2577

[Stanley Woo]

Bantz wrote...

agreed, wish we'd had this kind of back and forth talks before, probably would have saved these poor guys some of those hatefilled PM"s.

We have. john Epler and I have had several of these conversations over the last few weeks. People just tend to forget about them after a couple of days and go back to accusing us of not listening. And we have a whole bunch of community members who never read the threads we've participated in.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

 That's p. cool.

We're on the edge of relevancy!

[T-Zero]

John Epler wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Wasn't this originally about a congratulatory thread about our efforts and now it's devolved into a thread about how bad we are? Due in no small part to the timely intervention of BW's PR team.

Probably just a coincidence.

Well, there's that interpretation, or there's the interpretation that, whatever one's opinion on the ending, we can all agree that personal insults and attacks have no place in online discourse. Personally, I'm going with the latter - I'm far more likely to engage with someone who disagrees with me but is polite than someone who agrees with me but is hostile and vulgar. It's somewhat fashionable to quote the Greater Internet.. well, let's say Crapwad Theory, but I don't think that it excuses anything. And, hey, most of the people in the Retake movement? They're good people. They're passionate, sure, and they're unhappy about a particular aspect of ME3, but they're civil and polite. Personally, I'd rather see more of that on the forums.

As a ReTaker, thanks.  

[John Epler]

alx119 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

I don't think name calling and personal attacks help anyone's case, regardless of who they are and who they're referring to. That's as much of a statement as you'll get from me on any articles related to any of this, sorry. It's not really my place - I'm not on the ME team. Now, if you want my opinion on DA related stuff... well, I can't say much there, either. Whoops.

Why aren't you on the ME team? You are a pretty cool guy to talk with. 

I asked to stay on the Dragon Age team when it came time to staff out ME3. Why? Partially because I wanted to avoid crunch - it would've been three years straight where I spent half of it working 12-14 hour days as I bounced between projects. And, partially, because I wanted to play ME3 without having worked on it. It took a year before I could play ME2, due to how much time I spent on that project. Given that ME1 was one of my favourite games (I never worked on it), I wanted to enjoy ME3 the same way.

There are other professional development aspects, but they're of interest to no one but myself. Still, I enjoyed the time I spent on ME2.

[Sharkey1337]

I just want to thank both John and Stan for being so open and engaging in this thread. I definitely understand the pressures you guys may feel off and on again, but I just want to personally thank you for putting up with a lot of us here as you guys are just as passionate as we are.

I'm holding onto hope for April as I still can't get Mike's tweet about what they have in the works. Mentally I'm just worn out ever since this ending debacle arose, I'm on these forums too much nowadays, lol. XD

[Lethys1]

 Honestly, it's not even that the ending is unsatisfactory that is the problem or that our decisions had essentially zero gameplay impact on the middle of the game (few changes, i.e. dead characters would be replaced by generic ones, or simply cease to be present).
The real problem is that I legitimately feel like this is the second time I've been lied to in the advertising of a BioWare product, the first being Dragon Age 2.

Even forgiving plot disappointments and the ending debacle, which should be viewed by BioWare as alarming, the biggest problem in my eyes is that I feel like a trust has been completely lost.  Quotes made by Mike Gamble and Casey Hudson about the nature of the game are exactly contrary to the product I purchased.  

Quotes regarding the finality of the ending (no Lost ending, decent number of answers, closure) and the impact of decisions on gameplay are essentially lies.  You might as well tell a vegetarian that this hamburger is a veggie burger, when in fact it was a regular hamburger all along!  

I wasn't even going to buy the game initially based on my DA2 experience, but I read some coverage of it, saw the reviews, and specifically saw quotes made by these two gentlemen, and that led me to buy it even with DLC.  And ultimately I regret that decision highly.

I really want to like this company, give them the benefit of the doubt, and be a loyal customer.  It's in my best interest to love all the games they make and just feel good about pre-ordering these games.  It's in BioWare's best interest to realize that I'm a huge RPG fan and capitalize on my dollars.  There are so many things they could do which would make everyone instantly think that BioWare is again, without even a shred of doubt, one of the best devs out there.

Modifié par Lethys1, 29 mars 2012 - 03:42 .

[DarthSyphilis59]

Yeah, but if this is some twisted ARG, its obviously gotten out of hand...

The truth about all this reaction is the frustration John, because the community is unsure of just to give up hope and accept it, or that the ME team has planned this all along with an ace in the hole.

What moment people don't want to go through is this, We keep our hopes up, and the ME team, says "no, the ending you got is the ending you got. we never said we would change it, just expand on it." meaning the galaxy is still screwed, mass relays blown up, people dead, etc.

and for many people, it will be the whole ending disappointment all over again. combined with the "oh god, they got us again." frustration on top of that.

-AE
[/quote]

That is what I'm talking about. I just don't want to be jerked around. I just want to know if I should shelf the game and never speak of it again, or wait for some DLC that will give us what we wanted/promised.

[ahandsomeshark]

T-Zero wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Paparob wrote...

I was actually building towards that. Well I hope you don't mind me asking but did you? Just as one fan to another, I'm curious to see if you picked the game up recently or if you've been following the series for a while.

Edit: Off topic slightly but how is that a hard question? lol Also feel free to jump in with questions if you have them, its not like I'm the designated "Questioner of Stanley Woo" 

I have not played the series from start to finish, though I worked on Mass effect 2.

Mass Effect 2 was awesome!  Thank you for it

true story: when I read that sentence [that you worked on Mass Effect 2] I got goosebumps. It's like posting in a forum next to Quincy Jones (the guy who produced Thriller and Rashida Jones for those who don't know). Even if your entire contribution was like one line the guy selling games at the citadel said I feel like I just met a rockstar.

[Stanley Woo]

Bedevil123 wrote...

really? just out of simple curiosity what did you do work on/in mass effect 2?

EDIT: thank you btw! ME2 was a great game, and your talking to us here on the forums is a very nice sight for sore eyes

Plot and story analysis, cinematics testing, razzing John Epler.

[WildcardCharlie]

Stanley Woo wrote...

commander_shepard wrote...
I wouldn't mind if you flew me to Edmonton and showed me what you guys are working on to assuage me.

If you flew up here on your own dime and showed up at the office, I would consent to buy you a tasty beverage to assuage you, but that's about it.

Am I to assume this offer stands for all of us?? I will be there Monday if it does.

[Isichar]

Hopefully the bioware employees understand that the views of the few dont always reflect the views of the majority. I know what its like to work for a big company and be judged by the ignorant/passionate few. We are not all like that and i genuinely hope you guys know that.
On the other hand it can be very frustrating dealing with a wall of PR and speculation rather then caring individuals so i hope you understand this does not help our case either when people attack you. Its a no win situation when someone freaks out. For anyone.

On a side note @The angry one
Just wanted to say personally your my favorite poster on these forums (not sarcasm)

Modifié par Isichar, 29 mars 2012 - 03:42 .

[commander_shepard]

Stanley Woo wrote...

commander_shepard wrote...
I wouldn't mind if you flew me to Edmonton and showed me what you guys are working on to assuage me.

If you flew up here on your own dime and showed up at the office, I would consent to buy you a tasty beverage to assuage you, but that's about it.

Well technically it's more like flying west for me but it'd have to be a darn tasty 'tasty beverage' .

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

commander_shepard wrote...
I wouldn't mind if you flew me to Edmonton and showed me what you guys are working on to assuage me. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

If
you flew up here on your own dime and showed up at the office, I would
consent to buy you a tasty beverage to assuage you, but that's about it.

Am I to assume this offer stands for all of us?? I will be there Monday if it does.

But I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite forum in the Universe

Modifié par commander_shepard, 29 mars 2012 - 03:42 .

[Tehzim]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

I would also like to make the point that I DON'T believe that all Retakers are uncivil. The absolute best, most polite and most intellectually stimulating critiques have been very negative towards the endings.

However, the opposite is also true, I've seen some really unsettling anger directed towards individuals in BioWare and some ridiculous strawmen erected against the endings. Keep up the awesome logical arguments Retakers! Less of the anger!

More Paragon, less Renegade!

Sadly the polite, stimulating threads get washed away in the flood of vitriol and trolling so all people see is "ENDING SUCKS" or "YOU DON"T GET ENDING."  I've almost lost interest in posting.  Honestly I'm holding the line until PAX and if I don't hear something substantial at that time, this will be my last bioware purchase.  No DLC, no merch, no books, and certainly no new BioWare games.

Like an earlier guy said, "You have the right to your art, but you don't have the right to your fans."  Money talks, and mine will walk.  But I don't want it to walk.  Fix this so I can love you whole-heartedly again.