1334 réponses à ce sujet

[Dridengx]

KingNothing125 wrote...

"vocal minority" was wrong right from the start..

Why because Kotaku said so, wasn't kotaku Retake's most hated website now suddenly like IGN after a good article they're okay again? You do realize it's all for hits right? Even Forbes wrote one against ya after so many positives.

The Angry One wrote...

I am respectful to those who respect me, and dismissive of those who insult me.

That's a lie. I've seen you personally attack henchxnarf when she wasn't even speaking to you.

The Angry One wrote...

I have never been hostile to anyone. I have been dismissive to those who have shown hostility to me.

ha! just looking at your post history disproves that one. You can't fool anyone, everyone knows who you are. No one says anything because you are part of Retake.. if you made a thread quiting saying not to change the ending they would turn on you so fast like many have to others.

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A
quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community
members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement
is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across
as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

Shots fired!
Thank you Stanley! that was god like!

[DaddyFoxDerek]

John Epler wrote...
Scanning a populated planet always made me envision an Armageddon-type scenario where death rained down from the sky while Shepard calmly watched his resource bar.

Lol. Gloriously funny. Almost spit out my drink.

[Diablos2525]

I think the cupcakes will show you exactly what we mean, they all look a little different. But they taste exactly the same.

[leondes1]

Diablos2525 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Exeider wrote...
I would request that you play ME1 to the end, do every side mission, import to ME 2, recruit everyone, do every side mission, every loyalty mission, then import to ME3, recruit everyone, do every side mission, and get to the end.

in short, I want YOU, Stanley Woo, to drop 100 hours into Mass Effect, and get to the end, and tell me it ISN'T Anti-climactic.

edit: and video tape your reaction, i wanna see this.

-AE

If you are paying for my time to do that, I would be happy to. Failing that, however, you'll have to be happy with me deciding my own priorites and getting to the games when I can. Gotta warn you, though, I'm not cheap and I like pie. Lots of pie.

Are you going to eat that cupcake tomorrow? :happy:

Seriously, I would like to see some pictures of you guys eating those! 

[Laurcus]

Thanks for all the responses Stanley, it's been an interesting read. And I don't know if it means anything coming from me, but I want to apologize on behalf of the people that sent you hate mail. It's stupid, wrong, and has no place in a civilized discussion or argument.

[T-Zero]

Zuka999 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

I find it interesting that the BioWare guys would bring attention to a thread like this with their BIOWARE stamp unless they meant to.. they haven't responded so much to any other threads..

I saw Stan responding and thought to myself, 'Self, that looks interesting' so I hopped in. At least in the ME forums, I tend to stick to a single thread at a time because it moves so bloody quickly, not to mention that, not being on the ME team, I can only offer vague generalities and confusing statements. It's a little different with DA because I can have discussion with a lot more meat to them, but don't take our participation in any particular thread as a sign of anything more than 'that looks like a thread I want to participate in'. We're doing this on our own time, after all.

I'm mostly guilty of wanting any sign I can possibly find. I understand that the bigwigs at BioWare aren't all sitting at a roundtable going, "HMM. THIS THREAD ON THE FORUMS IS INTERESTING. MR. WOO? MR. EPLER? DROP EXTREMELY VAGUE AND/OR SUBTLE HINTS AT.. SOMETHING." That would be silly. Yeah.. in retrospect, my comment was quite silly.

Can I ask you a question, though? I don't know what you know, but from what you DO know, are the guys at BioWare taking us seriously? More than just statements to placate us? How much do they even care? I want to believe they still care a lot, they're Bioware, after all..

Actually... that would mean a lot to us.

[Bantz]

Zuka999 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

I find it interesting that the BioWare guys would bring attention to a thread like this with their BIOWARE stamp unless they meant to.. they haven't responded so much to any other threads..

I saw Stan responding and thought to myself, 'Self, that looks interesting' so I hopped in. At least in the ME forums, I tend to stick to a single thread at a time because it moves so bloody quickly, not to mention that, not being on the ME team, I can only offer vague generalities and confusing statements. It's a little different with DA because I can have discussion with a lot more meat to them, but don't take our participation in any particular thread as a sign of anything more than 'that looks like a thread I want to participate in'. We're doing this on our own time, after all.

I'm mostly guilty of wanting any sign I can possibly find. I understand that the bigwigs at BioWare aren't all sitting at a roundtable going, "HMM. THIS THREAD ON THE FORUMS IS INTERESTING. MR. WOO? MR. EPLER? DROP EXTREMELY VAGUE AND/OR SUBTLE HINTS AT.. SOMETHING." That would be silly. Yeah.. in retrospect, my comment was quite silly.

Can I ask you a question, though? I don't know what you know, but from what you DO know, are the guys at BioWare taking us seriously? More than just statements to placate us? How much do they even care? I want to believe they still care a lot, they're Bioware, after all..

brother i think you sumed up the feelings of an entire movement. We all love these games and the reaction we've had should in part be taken as a compliment to Bioware (our reaction not the actions of some people). Fans have grown to really love these games and the characters in them. Now we hold on for any sign of hope and cling to any small crumb that falls from biowares plate.

edit: also while i don't work @ bioware obviously. I'd be incredibly surprised if they were just placating us. If they weren't going to do anything they likely would have just said so, they gain nothing by letting this drag out if their eventual response is "deal with it"

Modifié par Bantz, 29 mars 2012 - 04:03 .

[Geneaux486]

My initial statement remains, call it whatever debating term you wish.

I called it what it was, a strawman, and my point still stands.

Things have always been shown to us and the consequences.. except now we have to speculate the outcomes of every decision we've made.

Yes but there are logical conclusions we can come to based on the large amount of information we're given.  It's not as open-ended as you say it is.

And this particular sh*tstorm is very telling about the condition of this game and franchise, if you wish to argue otherwise, well have fun with that.

Individual statements in the "storm"  are telling of those things, but a full-on reactionary outcry in and of itself is not.  And if I wasn't having fun I wouldn't be posting here

Finally, if you haven't taken into consideration about the "broader subject of sequels" then you really have not thought too much about the ending of ME3 apparently, for their consequences weigh heavily on any events post Shepard, unless they will never go past ME3's timeline and go purely the prequel route, in which case , count me out.

So I can't judge the endings on their own merit, I have to go by the standards of hypothetical sequels?  That's a line of reasoning I cannot get behind.



  

[Valo_Soren]

[Not helping.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 29 mars 2012 - 04:09 .

[Tovanus]

As much as I'm a "rawr, fan anger is good!" person, it's never crossed my mind to PM a moderator. No reason to assume a moderator is a developer on the game unless the moderator actually says, "I'm a developer on the game." And frankly, even on issues that are solely related to moderating, it's hard to see why someone would PM.

I mean, what would you PM about? Anger at a post being deleted wrongfully? Even if you get a moderator to undo it, what's the point of spending time on a PM? These forums are FAST. Who cares if you get back your post on a thread that got four responses and is now no longer visible? Or who cares if you got back your post on page 13 of a popular 24 page thread?

Angry forum posts serve some purpose at least. Even if all it does is reenforce the sense in others that they're not alone. Angry PM's? That's just... well, angry PM's just make everyone's day a little bit uglier, including the sender's.

[Gyspy Jive]

Diablos2525 wrote...

I think the cupcakes will show you exactly what we mean, they all look a little different. But they taste exactly the same.

Did they get the cupcakes yet?

[VigilancePress]

Sorry to add any static, I just saw a few posts that got me heated.

Anyway, wanted to thank John and Stanley again for dropping in. I know you guys aren't on ME3 at all, so it's clearly not appropriate to ask you directly about the plans for the game... but I would like to thank you guys for allowing us to vent on these forums and network with each other as much as we have. I know some threads have had to be shut down for lack of relevancy or for poor behavior, but I wanted to extend my appreciation for the open and fair environment.

I want you to know that if it hadn't been for these forums, and the ability to share my frustrations with the community (and learn from them I wasn't alone), I would certainly have sworn off BioWare for good. Having this outlet to share with the other gamers and with BioWare has at least given you guys a chance to keep a lot of the "Vocal Fanbase" who are so angry. I know it's a lot of work, but thanks for hanging in there.

[Stanley Woo]

Exeider wrote...

hell, no, i reject that on principle alone, why should he get paid to do something WE did for ourselves.

I want him to go through the exact same course that we did. To pay him would negate the whole purpose of the experiment, because he would be doing for a pay check, not to see how it feels.

-AE

In that case, my counter-offer would be for you to ship an award-winning AAA game trilogy and moderate their online community so you can "go through the exact same course that we did." I mean, without going through that, how we trust any argument you make? how you have any basis by which to make any argument?

Personally, I think it's possible to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" without physically putting on their shoes and walking an actual mile. We can imagine and simulate much of it based on prior experience and our freedom of expression.

[alx119]

John Epler wrote...


I asked to stay on the Dragon Age team when it came time to staff out ME3. Why? Partially because I wanted to avoid crunch - it would've been three years straight where I spent half of it working 12-14 hour days as I bounced between projects. And, partially, because I wanted to play ME3 without having worked on it. It took a year before I could play ME2, due to how much time I spent on that project. Given that ME1 was one of my favourite games (I never worked on it), I wanted to enjoy ME3 the same way.

There are other professional development aspects, but they're of interest to no one but myself. Still, I enjoyed the time I spent on ME2.

Oh understandable. Mind if I ask, what did you think of the ending yourself? (Although I can understand if you guys can't bring your own, -personal- opinions on the table, it'd be nice to see what BioWare people themselves think, I'm still convinced that at least someone in the BioWare team is with us the common rabble P: /jk) 

And, for the matter, what did you do on ME2? And what did you like the most? 


Also as a general, good job on keeping the good vibrations in this thread, I am quite proud of my fellow ReTakers  

[John Epler]

Zuka999 wrote...

I'm mostly guilty of wanting any sign I can possibly find. I understand that the bigwigs at BioWare aren't all sitting at a roundtable going, "HMM. THIS THREAD ON THE FORUMS IS INTERESTING. MR. WOO? MR. EPLER? DROP EXTREMELY VAGUE AND/OR SUBTLE HINTS AT.. SOMETHING." That would be silly. Yeah.. in retrospect, my comment was quite silly.

Can I ask you a question, though? I don't know what you know, but from what you DO know, are the guys at BioWare taking us seriously? More than just statements to placate us? How much do they even care? I want to believe they still care a lot, they're Bioware, after all..

The ME folks care. Quite a lot, I'd wager - many of them have invested more time into this franchise than anything else in their professional careers. Now, here's where it gets tricky - I can't say what that means in terms of what you'll see in the future. I really, really don't want to speak out of turn and say more than that, because, well, I don't know their plans. But I can say with confidence that they care about their fans, and care about how you feel about the game.

More than that? Not really my place to say.

[DJBare]

Opsrbest wrote...
If this one doesn't satisfy your needs then I dunno wut to do. The forums go to fast for me to grab the threads and posting history doesn't go back far enough.

http://social.biowar.../index/10544977

What's wrong with that thread?, wait, I'm beginning to see a pattern forming here, it disagrees with YOUR views amrite?

[ticklefist]

Dridengx wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

"vocal minority" was wrong right from the start..

Why because Kotaku said so, wasn't kotaku Retake's most hated website now suddenly like IGN after a good article they're okay again? You do realize it's all for hits right? Even Forbes wrote one against ya after so many positives.

The Angry One wrote...

I am respectful to those who respect me, and dismissive of those who insult me.

That's a lie. I've seen you personally attack henchxnarf when she wasn't even speaking to you.

The Angry One wrote...

I have never been hostile to anyone. I have been dismissive to those who have shown hostility to me.

ha! just looking at your post history disproves that one. You can't fool anyone, everyone knows who you are. No one says anything because you are part of Retake.. if you made a thread quiting saying not to change the ending they would turn on you so fast like many have to others.

Stanley Woo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

All of us have been civil, even in the face of remarks which I think uncalled for and oversimplifications of our argument.
If the actualy developers would engage us they would find us respectful but firm in our positions.

Pardon me, the Angry One. no disrespect intended to you, but:

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

A
quick tally of the many threads I've had to lock, and the community
members I've had to warn and/or ban, would indicate that your statement
is patently untrue. Even some of your own posts will often come across
as accusatory and somewhat antagonistic, if not hostile.

Shots fired!
Thank you Stanley! that was god like!

Antagonistic. Cherry picked the thread for quotables to further antagonize with. Why?

[TheOptimist]

DJBare wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...
I believe it's between page 30-35 if you want to get specific but since you don't like that one I shall find you another.

Wait, you are basing your entire argument on something that took place a month ago, here, thought I'd do your work for you.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/30
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/31
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/32
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/33
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/34
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/35

Funny part is I just read through those pages and the person using the worst language is a guy telling people to buy the game and not believe the leaks.

[Maugrim]

If ya'll are looking for some good, polite feedback and about why the fans are so disappointed in a nice visual audio/form check out this youtube video...sometime, it's a hour long you'll be there for a while!

[Stanley Woo]

Zuka999 wrote...

Can I ask you a question, though? I don't know what you know, but from what you DO know, are the guys at BioWare taking us seriously? More than just statements to placate us? How much do they even care? I want to believe they still care a lot, they're Bioware, after all..

Ray Muzyka released a statement to the community. RAY, one of the company's co-founders and currently an EA Senior Vice-President and BioWare Label GM! How much more seriously do you want to be taken?

[Karrie788]

John Epler wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

I'm mostly guilty of wanting any sign I can possibly find. I understand that the bigwigs at BioWare aren't all sitting at a roundtable going, "HMM. THIS THREAD ON THE FORUMS IS INTERESTING. MR. WOO? MR. EPLER? DROP EXTREMELY VAGUE AND/OR SUBTLE HINTS AT.. SOMETHING." That would be silly. Yeah.. in retrospect, my comment was quite silly.

Can I ask you a question, though? I don't know what you know, but from what you DO know, are the guys at BioWare taking us seriously? More than just statements to placate us? How much do they even care? I want to believe they still care a lot, they're Bioware, after all..

The ME folks care. Quite a lot, I'd wager - many of them have invested more time into this franchise than anything else in their professional careers. Now, here's where it gets tricky - I can't say what that means in terms of what you'll see in the future. I really, really don't want to speak out of turn and say more than that, because, well, I don't know their plans. But I can say with confidence that they care about their fans, and care about how you feel about the game.

More than that? Not really my place to say.

Thank you. Just... thank you.

[Cucobr]

can someone link to me the post of the moderator?

[T-Zero]

John Epler wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

I'm mostly guilty of wanting any sign I can possibly find. I understand that the bigwigs at BioWare aren't all sitting at a roundtable going, "HMM. THIS THREAD ON THE FORUMS IS INTERESTING. MR. WOO? MR. EPLER? DROP EXTREMELY VAGUE AND/OR SUBTLE HINTS AT.. SOMETHING." That would be silly. Yeah.. in retrospect, my comment was quite silly.

Can I ask you a question, though? I don't know what you know, but from what you DO know, are the guys at BioWare taking us seriously? More than just statements to placate us? How much do they even care? I want to believe they still care a lot, they're Bioware, after all..

The ME folks care. Quite a lot, I'd wager - many of them have invested more time into this franchise than anything else in their professional careers. Now, here's where it gets tricky - I can't say what that means in terms of what you'll see in the future. I really, really don't want to speak out of turn and say more than that, because, well, I don't know their plans. But I can say with confidence that they care about their fans, and care about how you feel about the game.

More than that? Not really my place to say.

Thank you.  It means a lot to be able to hear that.  

[Skyblade012]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

It would be nice to have a developer who understands just what this does to someone who is heavily invested in the series.

Let's talk numbers.

*looks at all the members of the development team who have been on the franchise since Mass Effect 1, looks at all the rabid gamers in our company* You know, somehow, I think we already have some of those around here...

True, please pardon my lack of specification.

Gamers have a different view than developers.  The developers on the team, who have been working on this series since Mass Effect 1 have a very different sort of investment than the fans do.  They see everything going on behind the picture, and it colors their view.

The fans, on the other hand, see the final product.  The big picture constructed out of all that work, without seeing the work itself, or the beams and pillars that hold it all together.  They miss some things that are obvious to the devs, and they notice some things that the devs never think of.

You are a relative newcomer to the series.  You don't have that huge developer investment to the series.  You know what you've done, and you have an idea of what the other devs have put in, but you haven't seen it, it hasn't consumed your life and passions for years.

Thus you could still come at it from a different perspective.  You could be an insider on the team who actually has the same type of investment in the series as the fans do.  You would be in a much better position to tell where we are coming from, what upset us, and why.  And, because you are still a dev, you would know how best to address these problems.

It's one thing to be told what people think.  It's quite another to experience it and discover it for yourself.  And I would love to have the opinion of someone who essentially would be on both sides of the fence, dev and gamer.