68 réponses à ce sujet

[Stanley Woo]

Exeider wrote...
I would request that you play ME1 to the end, do every side mission, import to ME 2, recruit everyone, do every side mission, every loyalty mission, then import to ME3, recruit everyone, do every side mission, and get to the end.

in short, I want YOU, Stanley Woo, to drop 100 hours into Mass Effect, and get to the end, and tell me it ISN'T Anti-climactic.

edit: and video tape your reaction, i wanna see this.

-AE

If you are paying for my time to do that, I would be happy to. Failing that, however, you'll have to be happy with me deciding my own priorites and getting to the games when I can. Gotta warn you, though, I'm not cheap and I like pie. Lots of pie.

[Stanley Woo]

DJBare wrote...

John, Stanley, you say your views are coloured by the hate mail you got and such, how about checking out the mega thread, the people in there have been bloody remarkable, I mean really, instead of allowing the hate to colour your view, why not take some time to actually look at the numbers who have been incredibly civil throughout all of this.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/2577

I do check out that thread from time to time.

[John Epler]

Zuka999 wrote...

I find it interesting that the BioWare guys would bring attention to a thread like this with their BIOWARE stamp unless they meant to.. they haven't responded so much to any other threads..

I saw Stan responding and thought to myself, 'Self, that looks interesting' so I hopped in. At least in the ME forums, I tend to stick to a single thread at a time because it moves so bloody quickly, not to mention that, not being on the ME team, I can only offer vague generalities and confusing statements. It's a little different with DA because I can have discussion with a lot more meat to them, but don't take our participation in any particular thread as a sign of anything more than 'that looks like a thread I want to participate in'. We're doing this on our own time, after all.

[Stanley Woo]

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

If you flew up here on your own dime and showed up at the office, I would consent to buy you a tasty beverage to assuage you, but that's about it.

Am I to assume this offer stands for all of us?? I will be there Monday if it does.

As long as you don't mind NOT talking shop, then yes. Let me know when you're coming and I'll see what I can do to accommodate it.

EDIT: Please note that this off is good only for those who fly in. Proof of flight and residence outside of Edmonton may be required. Local folks can buy their own damned drinks, thank you very much,.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 29 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[John Epler]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

John Epler wrote...

I continue to argue for an easter egg in a DA game where you come across a 'mysterious broken machine' that's actually the remains of one of the probes from ME2. Scanning a populated planet always made me envision an Armageddon-type scenario where death rained down from the sky while Shepard calmly watched his resource bar.

I don't see why you could not get such given the ME team stole one of your ogres from DA and put it in ME.

At one point, there was a Krogan head mounted on the wall in Chateau Haine (the castle from Mark of the Assassin). I think it was eventually removed, but the asset still exists somewhere.

Modifié par John Epler, 29 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[John Epler]

VigilancePress wrote...

People, seriously?

Two folks from BioWare tune in, talk to us, and you start trying to drive them away by calling them liars and taking everything they say apart right in front of them.

...and you wonder *why* they aren't talking to us?

I mean, I'm angry about the game, but c'mon. When someone comes to the table, you don't slap them in the face and then expect them to talk to you.

Honestly, by and large people are being quite civil. There are always exceptions, but it's certainly the minority in this thread.

[Stanley Woo]

Sywen wrote...

I made my son pay me $50 to play ME1 and bake me a pie.

then you are the kind of father I aspire to be one day.

[Stanley Woo]

Sywen wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Sywen wrote...

I made my son pay me $50 to play ME1 and bake me a pie.

then you are the kind of father I aspire to be one day.

Mother

Mother. My apologies.

[Stanley Woo]

Skyblade012 wrote...

It would be nice to have a developer who understands just what this does to someone who is heavily invested in the series.

Let's talk numbers.

*looks at all the members of the development team who have been on the franchise since Mass Effect 1, looks at all the rabid gamers in our company* You know, somehow, I think we already have some of those around here...

[Stanley Woo]

Exeider wrote...

hell, no, i reject that on principle alone, why should he get paid to do something WE did for ourselves.

I want him to go through the exact same course that we did. To pay him would negate the whole purpose of the experiment, because he would be doing for a pay check, not to see how it feels.

-AE

In that case, my counter-offer would be for you to ship an award-winning AAA game trilogy and moderate their online community so you can "go through the exact same course that we did." I mean, without going through that, how we trust any argument you make? how you have any basis by which to make any argument?

Personally, I think it's possible to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" without physically putting on their shoes and walking an actual mile. We can imagine and simulate much of it based on prior experience and our freedom of expression.

[John Epler]

Zuka999 wrote...

I'm mostly guilty of wanting any sign I can possibly find. I understand that the bigwigs at BioWare aren't all sitting at a roundtable going, "HMM. THIS THREAD ON THE FORUMS IS INTERESTING. MR. WOO? MR. EPLER? DROP EXTREMELY VAGUE AND/OR SUBTLE HINTS AT.. SOMETHING." That would be silly. Yeah.. in retrospect, my comment was quite silly.

Can I ask you a question, though? I don't know what you know, but from what you DO know, are the guys at BioWare taking us seriously? More than just statements to placate us? How much do they even care? I want to believe they still care a lot, they're Bioware, after all..

The ME folks care. Quite a lot, I'd wager - many of them have invested more time into this franchise than anything else in their professional careers. Now, here's where it gets tricky - I can't say what that means in terms of what you'll see in the future. I really, really don't want to speak out of turn and say more than that, because, well, I don't know their plans. But I can say with confidence that they care about their fans, and care about how you feel about the game.

More than that? Not really my place to say.

[Stanley Woo]

Zuka999 wrote...

Can I ask you a question, though? I don't know what you know, but from what you DO know, are the guys at BioWare taking us seriously? More than just statements to placate us? How much do they even care? I want to believe they still care a lot, they're Bioware, after all..

Ray Muzyka released a statement to the community. RAY, one of the company's co-founders and currently an EA Senior Vice-President and BioWare Label GM! How much more seriously do you want to be taken?

[Stanley Woo]

Laurcus wrote...

Thanks for all the responses Stanley, it's been an interesting read. And I don't know if it means anything coming from me, but I want to apologize on behalf of the people that sent you hate mail. It's stupid, wrong, and has no place in a civilized discussion or argument.

While I appreciate the sentiment, no one needs to apologize on behalf of anyone else. It is enough for me that all y'all look to your own behaviour and lead by example in our community, encouraging others to do the same. As long as you guys continue with the kind of discussion we've been having here, as long as you keep your expectations reasonable and your arguments civil, I am satisfied.

[John Epler]

lordnyx1 wrote...

DaddyFoxDerek wrote...

John Epler wrote...
Scanning a populated planet always made me envision an Armageddon-type scenario where death rained down from the sky while Shepard calmly watched his resource bar.

Lol. Gloriously funny. Almost spit out my drink.

Like that perhaps? 

Hah, yes. Exactly like that.

I'd say 'I came up with it first!', but all you'd have are my word and whatever half-remembered drunken ramblings I expressed during ME2's development. Though in my version, the probe used mechanical spiders to gather resources and I pictured someone walking up to a pod only to have one launch itself at them.

[Stanley Woo]

Exeider wrote...

actually, its funny you mentioned it, I did work on an award winning title, an MMO to be specific, you might of heard of it, called EvE Online. worked as a QA Lead and worked with the developers all the time.

I can send you a resume if you don't believe me.

Edit: and a phone number to verify my employment..

-AE

It's funny. Then you of all people should realize that, as a developer, we already have a very different view of the game and the development process than most gamers. Why would you then issue that challenge? I'm familiar with all the arguments, I have friends who have played the game, I have seen the endings with my own eyes, I have experienced a lot of the games leading up to it.

Besides which, every gamer is going to experience their games differently. who's to say that what you experience is going to be the same as what JoeGamer experiences, or what SusanPlayer experiences? I think your challenge of "play the game like I did and you'll feel the way I do" is misguided.

[Stanley Woo]

Hey, folks. Some people are having a very different conversation than the rest of us in this thread. Let's all try and remember to keep the name-calling and insults out of the conversation, please.

[Stanley Woo]

Exeider wrote...

The difference is I'm willing to work on a triple A game trilogy, in fact dying to work on one. and as far as an arguement, thats a far cry in effort from simply sitting down and playing your companies product that you believe in so much. The fact that you attempt to defuse it with such grandeouse statements just speaks to the obviousness.

I ask you to play the games, imbibe the product and come back with your answer. If you stand behind your product so much, please, put your money where you mouth is and try it. What are you afraid of?

Nothing, actually. Nor will I take your bait. You'll have to be satisfied that I'll get to the games when I get to them.

[John Epler]

Honestly, I don't think it's possible for anyone who's worked on the franchise extensively to approach the games in the same way as a fan who's been here since the beginning. By our very experiences we are already looking at things from a different perspective than you - while you romanced one or two people over your ME2 playthroughs, I've romanced all of 'em. Multiple times. My job, for six and a half months, was to scour the conversations on the Normandy and make sure to document any kind of weird cinematic design bugs that I could find.

I've already seen how sausage is made. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy a hot dog from time to time, but even if I still love them, I'm looking at them in a different way than you are. It's not something I can really do much about - I can't just forget the six and a half months I spent checking every possible permutation and variation of every possible dialogue that would fire on the ship. That's not to say that there aren't some people who can approach the games without their experience being coloured in such a fashion, but I don't think either Stan or myself are that person.

[Stanley Woo]

bucyrus5000 wrote...

Wait a sec.
Stanley, you haven't played ME3? That is disconcerting.

Disconcerting in what way?

[Stanley Woo]

Folks, again, let's keep the not-so-subtle jabs out of the conversation, please. You guys are having a different conversation than the one we're having in here.

[Stanley Woo]

VigilancePress wrote...

As a publisher (of pen and paper RPG stuff), I totally hear this. I know the kerning of characters better than the actual content of some books. I spend a lot of time looking at manuscripts through an editor's lens, so sometimes it's hard to remember how a consumer will look at it. Fortunately, I have good consumers who give good feedback, and that helps me make the next product better (or fix a problem with a current one).

I no longer know what it's like to look at something uncritically.

[John Epler]

Isichar wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Honestly, I don't think it's possible for anyone who's worked on the franchise extensively to approach the games in the same way as a fan who's been here since the beginning. By our very experiences we are already looking at things from a different perspective than you - while you romanced one or two people over your ME2 playthroughs, I've romanced all of 'em. Multiple times. My job, for six and a half months, was to scour the conversations on the Normandy and make sure to document any kind of weird cinematic design bugs that I could find.

I've already seen how sausage is made. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy a hot dog from time to time, but even if I still love them, I'm looking at them in a different way than you are. It's not something I can really do much about - I can't just forget the six and a half months I spent checking every possible permutation and variation of every possible dialogue that would fire on the ship. That's not to say that there aren't some people who can approach the games without their experience being coloured in such a fashion, but I don't think either Stan or myself are that person.

I think you underestimate how thoroughly some of us have played through this game...

Oh, I don't doubt that there are people who've seen the vast majority of most of the Normandy conversations. But it's a rather different experience when you play something with the intention of breaking it, versus playing it with the intention of enjoying it. I had Excel spreadsheets with the various ways to go through all the conversations, just to make sure I hit every single branch. And I did it. Numerous times. It's part of why it took me so long to play through ME2 - every time I got to the Normandy, I had to put the game down.

[Stanley Woo]

granyte wrote...

i must admit i find that funny that those who work behind the doors don;t have time to know the product they are devlopping or helping devlo that led to horrible result in the past

You're assuming I don't "know the product" just because I haven't played Mass Effect 3. I assure you, I know quite a lot about the franchise and the game.

[Stanley Woo]

Exeider wrote...

sorry if it seemed like i was baiting. The long and the short of it is this, because i got to get home.

put your money where you mouth is, and play the game. Because unless you have played the game, you can't really say if its good or bad, whether the endings sucked or not. Whether the animation was right or now, or any of a thousand critiques.

I respectfully disagree.

you could probably get paid for it if you cited it as, community research or something.

I could not, as it would not be anywhere within the scope of my duties. My time would always be better spent on tasks. (Though when I was moved onto the project, I was told to "play the game" while they worked out what exactly I would be doing on the project.)

All I'm saying is if you going to defend something, wouldn't it be smart to actually KNOW the material your defending. And the reason why I say do it from the players point of view is so that you can understand the frustration, the peril, the triumph, the experiance from playing it and playing it as anyone else does. No dev tools, memory value changes, nothing. just straight legit, vanilla gameplay.

I know the material I'm defending, and I know what the player's view of it is, so I understand the frustration, the peril, the triumph, and the experience of people playing it.

Look i'm taking a risk here too, you may play it, love the endings, and have ammunition for an arguement as to why the endings should NOT be changed. That's a risk I'm willing to take. Because at least Stanley, I will be talking with someone who I know played the games and is stating his opinion from that foundation.

take it as a suggestion and not a challenge if that makes you feel better.

And as I said, I'll get to it when I get to it. That's all I can promise you.

[John Epler]

T-Zero wrote...

That stinks.  The Normandy convo's are really what carried the game for me.  But I can understand; if you have hamburger every day for a week, you really don't want anything but fried chicken after...

Well, the bright side of all that was that I got the opportunity to cut my teeth by doing the cinematic design work for all the non-critical Joker conversations. So it was certainly a positive step in that regard. And the Normandy conversations were great - I was a particular fan of the Garrus work. In the end, I was able to go back and enjoy them properly, but it did take a while. And my perspective was, in the end, still different than someone who didn't work on the game.