1334 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

I got a request for the cool bioware guys. Probably not something you can handle, but hey, pass it on if you can.

BSN needs an ignore feature like... BAD.

Why would you want that?

It just means you do not any longer know what they are saying about you. But they will still be saying it.

Presuming that we care?

[alx119]

The Angry One wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

Can I ask you a question, though? I don't know what you know, but from what you DO know, are the guys at BioWare taking us seriously? More than just statements to placate us? How much do they even care? I want to believe they still care a lot, they're Bioware, after all..

Ray Muzyka released a statement to the community. RAY, one of the company's co-founders and currently an EA Senior Vice-President and BioWare Label GM! How much more seriously do you want to be taken?

Why must he use catchphrases like "artistic integrity"? That doesn't sound like taking us seriously, in fact it appears to be the exact opposite.

I sadly must agree with this one, the feeling the statements provides is a bit of a disregard for the community. We understand that he can't really say much, but, is things like "Our first reaction was to look at the critics" and "artistic integrity" what irks some of us. Again, it's a feeling rather than "what really happens". But still is important to consider. 

(I don't sadly agree because it's you Angry One, quite the opposite, I sadly agree because it's a sad truth)

[Tehzim]

John Epler wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

Is it wrong everytime I read a reply of yours I read it in Jacob's voice?


OT: Most fans have been good sports, and a concrete statement without looping around the issue would be nice, some people are boiling up, others are being extremist, but I still feel like we've been given crumbs and are expected to smile all the way into April.

Well, I can't speak for the ME team, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding exactly how things move in a company the size of BioWare, especially one that's publicly traded. Not your guys' fault - you have no real need to know what goes on internally, you're not employees. But there are things we can say in public, things we can't, and things we can say, but only when they're approved by the appropriate parties (legal, etc.) Not to mention that, in a situation where there's as much emotion on the line as there is here, you want to be very careful as to what you say because, hey, people are going to react, and you don't want an ill-conceived word sending everyone into a frenzy.

I imagine that, when they are able to say more, they'll say more. I'd counsel patience, although I understand that, when you're passionate about an issue, that's easier said than done. Most of you have been quite civil and polite, and we thank you for that. But vitriol and insults from the vocal minority who -aren't- able to remain civil isn't going to make things go faster. I hate saying 'it'll happen when it happens', but that's largely true with bigger companies. It's not always ideal, but it's a fact of life and business.

I can't wait for the floodgates to open and to be able to actually talk about things with the developers.  I love this game, this series and this company.  We just feel a little brushed to the side and feel like no one is listening.  PAX is your chance.

[TheOptimist]

Opsrbest wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...
I believe it's between page 30-35 if you want to get specific but since you don't like that one I shall find you another.

Wait, you are basing your entire argument on something that took place a month ago, here, thought I'd do your work for you.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/30
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/31
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/32
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/33
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/34
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/35

Funny part is I just read through those pages and the person using the worst language is a guy telling people to buy the game and not believe the leaks.

Funny part for me is I said I believe it was those pages. Damn good of me too have a memory that remembers that far back.

Except the Retakers there were the exact opposite of what you said.  Again, it was the guy arguing with the Retakers that was using language, and even he wasn't really insulting people.

[Karrie788]

Diablos2525 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

Can I ask you a question, though? I don't know what you know, but from what you DO know, are the guys at BioWare taking us seriously? More than just statements to placate us? How much do they even care? I want to believe they still care a lot, they're Bioware, after all..

Ray Muzyka released a statement to the community. RAY, one of the company's co-founders and currently an EA Senior Vice-President and BioWare Label GM! How much more seriously do you want to be taken?

I would rather all the little guys who worked on the game come in here and let us know they support us. Don't really care about some big VP who probably has grown away from the fans because of money. I can't say that for sure, don't know the guy, but that's the way of the world isn't it?

I know it sounds silly but that's how I feel.

It's still big.
The fact that Mr. Muzyka actually made a statement himself shows how much this has affected Bioware.

[Cigarette Smoking Man]

It's rather hard, as someone who has invested so much energy, to remain positive about the whole experience of Mass Effect, especially given the work done by the folks was of such quality that the ending is so stark in its...how to put this...inability to satisfy.

Right now, I imagine a good 90% of the people posting in this thread would be hard at work with this Bioware title, banging out conclusions to stories, awaiting awesome DLC, and saying they can't wait for the next thing from the studio. It's one thing if you guys say to us that this is what is concrete. Then we can move on. But there is a full noncommittal manner in which this has been handled. The fact that Ray's press release can be extrapolated in any number of ways given its sheer vagueness has to say something.

Modifié par Cigarette Smoking Man, 29 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[Zuka999]

John Epler wrote...

The ME folks care. Quite a lot, I'd wager - many of them have invested more time into this franchise than anything else in their professional careers. Now, here's where it gets tricky - I can't say what that means in terms of what you'll see in the future. I really, really don't want to speak out of turn and say more than that, because, well, I don't know their plans. But I can say with confidence that they care about their fans, and care about how you feel about the game.

More than that? Not really my place to say.

Thank you. I just want to believe they are the same company that I remember. I've grown up with their games, I'd kind of like them to stay awesome.

Stanley Woo wrote...


Ray Muzyka released a
statement to the community. RAY, one of the company's co-founders and
currently an EA Senior Vice-President and BioWare Label GM! How much
more seriously do you want to be taken?

Yeah.. I get that. The average Joe is kind of distrustful of guys that high up is the thing, mainly because of the way we feel about EA. it is extremely easy to get caught up in that kind of feeling of frustration. In general most of us feel like the BioWare people are being held back by someone, because we dearly want to disbelieve the ending was actually their fault..

[The_Crazy_Hand]

The Angry One wrote...

Why must he use catchphrases like "artistic integrity"? That doesn't sound like taking us seriously, in fact it appears to be the exact opposite.

I hate to double post Stanley, but I must echo this sentiment.  I do not want "artistic integrity" if it means destruction of product quality.  Most others do not either.

[DJBare]

TheOptimist wrote...

DJBare wrote...
Wait, you are basing your entire argument on something that took place a month ago, here, thought I'd do your work for you.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/30
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/31
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/32
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/33
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/34
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/35

Funny part is I just read through those pages and the person using the worst language is a guy telling people to buy
the game and not believe the leaks.

There was bad feeling on both sides, but in a topic with over 2500 pages that's small potatoes.

[ShepnTali]

ticklefist wrote...

I got a request for the cool bioware guys. Probably not something you can handle, but hey, pass it on if you can.

BSN needs an ignore feature like... BAD.

Agreed!

[Dragoonlordz]

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

Stanley, I know this "clarification" stuff isn't your fault, but can you forward our collective message of wanting change, not clarification to those who maybe can do something about it? I ask because I noticed you and John are actively posting right now and figure I may as well try.

For the record, I don't expect a change that perfectly satisfies me, or anyone else. But I don't wanna pay for DLC that would suffice as a forum post (clarification) and the community at large doesn't either.

It is not collective though, many want clarification and others want change. I do not want change but would be happy with others getting clarification. No DLC is limited to one element and it won't be limited to the ending alone whatever they produce. That is not something I want to miss out on even though I do not care for changing the ending.

[Grimez7]

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Just booked my flight to Edmonton.

There will be cupcakes.

take pictures and pm them to me

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

ticklefist wrote...

I got a request for the cool bioware guys. Probably not something you can handle, but hey, pass it on if you can.

BSN needs an ignore feature like... BAD.

I disagree with this, people would simply ignore other people who have other views then they do, escpecially now with the ending contreversy.

[Stonesoundjam]

Simple question then to TPTB...

Let's just assume that we won't ask anything specific about resolving the ending issue or anything like that.

But, do you guys even have an idea on how to move forward at this time or are you guys still spinning your wheels up at HQ?

Or is the new BioWare/EA philosophy going to be the vague address at it's fanbase on occassion then going back to guerrila tactics in regards to fanbase satisfaction.

I guess the main question is, "Is anyone in BioWare ever going to give us a straight answer and not circumvent the issue by using ambiguous PR terms like 'clarify' and 'explaination'"

I can't believe not a single employee at BioWare took a look at the ending in pre-release and saw the possibility that a lot of consumers would be ticked off.

[jb1983]

John Epler wrote...

Xion66 wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...

Weird, I remember Bioware people on this forum admitting that the vast majority of Retake has been civil towards them...yet now we're all hostile and antagonistic?

Changing their tune?

Is it wrong everytime I read a reply of yours I read it in Jacob's voice?


OT: Most fans have been good sports, and a concrete statement without looping around the issue would be nice, some people are boiling up, others are being extremist, but I still feel like we've been given crumbs and are expected to smile all the way into April.

Well, I can't speak for the ME team, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding exactly how things move in a company the size of BioWare, especially one that's publicly traded. Not your guys' fault - you have no real need to know what goes on internally, you're not employees. But there are things we can say in public, things we can't, and things we can say, but only when they're approved by the appropriate parties (legal, etc.) Not to mention that, in a situation where there's as much emotion on the line as there is here, you want to be very careful as to what you say because, hey, people are going to react, and you don't want an ill-conceived word sending everyone into a frenzy.

I imagine that, when they are able to say more, they'll say more. I'd counsel patience, although I understand that, when you're passionate about an issue, that's easier said than done. Most of you have been quite civil and polite, and we thank you for that. But vitriol and insults from the vocal minority who -aren't- able to remain civil isn't going to make things go faster. I hate saying 'it'll happen when it happens', but that's largely true with bigger companies. It's not always ideal, but it's a fact of life and business.

I hope when I say this it comes across with the respect I mean:

As someone who has been VERY vocal in my opinion concerning the ending (and probably going a bit overboard), let me just say this - everything you just said is what should have been said weeks ago. Not that you could have, but what you're saying makes perfect sense.

The last few posts I've read by you guys (Bioware employees) means far more to me than reading a PR announcement. To be honest, seeing as how you all handled the "Retake Cupcakes" thing and the posts you guys left in there, I'm pretty confident that you're hard at work "fixing" the endings (well, 'fixing' from our perspective, listening to your fans and adding their contribution from yours). 

To be honest, seeing you guys post and what you've posted has put my mind at ease. If it takes you a year to come out with some really good DLC that addresses the issues we've had, then so be it; long as it's done well.

All that to say thanks for being honest, it's appreciated and it really makes me respect Bioware more. 

[Dragoonlordz]

The Angry One wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

I got a request for the cool bioware guys. Probably not something you can handle, but hey, pass it on if you can.

BSN needs an ignore feature like... BAD.

Why would you want that?

It just means you do not any longer know what they are saying about you. But they will still be saying it.

Presuming that we care?

I am sure you would.

[Arokel]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

I got a request for the cool bioware guys. Probably not something you can handle, but hey, pass it on if you can.

BSN needs an ignore feature like... BAD.

I disagree with this, people would simply ignore other people who have other views then they do, escpecially now with the ending contreversy.

While it would be nice a potention problem with an ignore feature I can see would be that you could miss half of a conversation on a thread.  Could result in weird issues.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is not collective though, many want clarification and others want change. I do not want change but would be happy with others getting clarification. No DLC is limited to one element and it won't be limited to the ending alone whatever they produce. That is not something I want to miss out on even though I do not care for changing the ending.

Not true, very few want clarification.  If you want, you can g]et more to vote in my poll on the matter.  Right now, it is overwhelmingly against clarification.

[Felene]

ticklefist wrote...

I got a request for the cool bioware guys. Probably not something you can handle, but hey, pass it on if you can.

BSN needs an ignore feature like... BAD.

I second this. We need ignore feature on BSN, think about how many flame war we can skip just by adding this option? The possibility is mind blowning.

[Laurcus]

ticklefist wrote...

I got a request for the cool bioware guys. Probably not something you can handle, but hey, pass it on if you can.

BSN needs an ignore feature like... BAD.

Isn't that what the little block this person button is when you click on someone's profile?

Modifié par Laurcus, 29 mars 2012 - 04:16 .

[Icinix]

Felene wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

I got a request for the cool bioware guys. Probably not something you can handle, but hey, pass it on if you can.

BSN needs an ignore feature like... BAD.

I second this. We need ignore feature on BSN, think about how many flame war we can skip just by adding this option? The possibility is mind blowning.

Thirded.

The block feature can only do so much.

[Exeider]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Exeider wrote...

hell, no, i reject that on principle alone, why should he get paid to do something WE did for ourselves.

I want him to go through the exact same course that we did. To pay him would negate the whole purpose of the experiment, because he would be doing for a pay check, not to see how it feels.

-AE

In that case, my counter-offer would be for you to ship an award-winning AAA game trilogy and moderate their online community so you can "go through the exact same course that we did." I mean, without going through that, how we trust any argument you make? how you have any basis by which to make any argument?

Personally, I think it's possible to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" without physically putting on their shoes and walking an actual mile. We can imagine and simulate much of it based on prior experience and our freedom of expression.

Agreed.

The difference is I'm willing to work on a triple A game trilogy, in fact dying to work on one. and as far as an arguement, thats a far cry in effort from simply sitting down and playing your companies product that you believe in so much. The fact that you attempt to defuse it with such grandeouse statements just speaks to the obviousness.

I ask you to play the games, imbibe the product and come back with your answer. If you stand behind your product so much, please, put your money where you mouth is and try it. What are you afraid of?

I played the games, and played them throughly. I ask you to do the same, its really not much that I am asking. Play your own game.

MMO developers for example who come down to the players level, IE no Dev tools for cheating and such, when they play their own game they gain an understanding of the player base, and understand the issues and foibles of their own game and how things work, not as they are designed, but as they ARE in the production environment, and that allows the developers to understand their game better, and develop it better. plain and simple. And I am only asking you to do the same.

-AE

[The Angry One]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I am sure you would.

Not really. Certain people here clog the whole forums with lengthy posts seemingly designed to draw my attention.
Perhaps if I had them on ignore they could do more constructive things with their time, such as write poetry or solve complex mathematical theorems.