1334 réponses à ce sujet

[TheOptimist]

DJBare wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

DJBare wrote...
Wait, you are basing your entire argument on something that took place a month ago, here, thought I'd do your work for you.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/30
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/31
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/32
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/33
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/34
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/35

Funny part is I just read through those pages and the person using the worst language is a guy telling people to buy
the game and not believe the leaks.

There was bad feeling on both sides, but in a topic with over 2500 pages that's small potatoes.

Yeah, but it doesn't even support his argument.  He claimed BSN retake folks were using terrible language to insult developers.  There were people unhappy with the end, but I didn't see anyone doing the kind of stuff he talked about.

[Stanley Woo]

Exeider wrote...

actually, its funny you mentioned it, I did work on an award winning title, an MMO to be specific, you might of heard of it, called EvE Online. worked as a QA Lead and worked with the developers all the time.

I can send you a resume if you don't believe me.

Edit: and a phone number to verify my employment..

-AE

It's funny. Then you of all people should realize that, as a developer, we already have a very different view of the game and the development process than most gamers. Why would you then issue that challenge? I'm familiar with all the arguments, I have friends who have played the game, I have seen the endings with my own eyes, I have experienced a lot of the games leading up to it.

Besides which, every gamer is going to experience their games differently. who's to say that what you experience is going to be the same as what JoeGamer experiences, or what SusanPlayer experiences? I think your challenge of "play the game like I did and you'll feel the way I do" is misguided.

[DJBare]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ticklefist wrote...
I got a request for the cool bioware guys. Probably not something you can handle, but hey, pass it on if you can.
BSN needs an ignore feature like... BAD.

Why would you want that?
It just means you do not any longer know what they are saying about you. But they will still be saying it.

I've seen this feature work very well on other forums, it definitely cuts down on flaming, I've got a filter installed on firefox that can block forum posts by name, but not had the need for it....yet.

Modifié par DJBare, 29 mars 2012 - 04:17 .

[Greer]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

Can I ask you a question, though? I don't know what you know, but from what you DO know, are the guys at BioWare taking us seriously? More than just statements to placate us? How much do they even care? I want to believe they still care a lot, they're Bioware, after all..

Ray Muzyka released a statement to the community. RAY, one of the company's co-founders and currently an EA Senior Vice-President and BioWare Label GM! How much more seriously do you want to be taken?

Except his statement was still loaded with buzzwords like "artistic integrity" and he hid behind critics' ratings and reviews instead of actually addressing the fans' complaints.

And I think, really, that's what it boils down to - we feel like we aren't being heard because our actual issues haven't been acknowledged. It's always "critics' ratings" and "judge for yourself" and "not every story will have a happy ending" and "artistic ingegrity".

I think that's all any of us want right now - it's all we've wanted from the start, really - honest acknowledgement of our grievances (our actual grievances, not the strawman list that seems to continue to pop up in every PR statement) and then a promise that something will be done to address them or confirmation that nothing's changing so that those of use who are still hopeful can stop feeling jerked around.

Modifié par Greer, 29 mars 2012 - 04:18 .

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

Arokel wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

I got a request for the cool bioware guys. Probably not something you can handle, but hey, pass it on if you can.

BSN needs an ignore feature like... BAD.

I disagree with this, people would simply ignore other people who have other views then they do, escpecially now with the ending contreversy.

While it would be nice a potention problem with an ignore feature I can see would be that you could miss half of a conversation on a thread.  Could result in weird issues.

Yep, there would be multiple conversations in a thread that some people would not even see, would cause a lot of confusion.  This is a forum, not a chatroom, an ignore feature just would not work, though the thought of it is nice.

[Cigarette Smoking Man]

Laurcus wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

I got a request for the cool bioware guys. Probably not something you can handle, but hey, pass it on if you can.

BSN needs an ignore feature like... BAD.

Isn't that what the little block user button is when you click on someone's profile?

No. What that does, I have no clue, but you still see user posts.

An ignore feature would probably make moderator's jobs easier. Some of the same folks post in these threads and really antagonize. If I didn't have to ever read them again, it'd make my forum visits a much more serene experience.

[Helmchen2010]

I want to thank Stanley Woo and John Epler for spending so much time in this thread tonight. It's appreciated.

I hope you two understand just how badly large parts of the ME community want to be thrown a bone, *something* that indicates that Bioware is taking their concerns seriously. I know you will say, "Look, RAY wrote a long blog on just this", but no, that was a streamlined PR statement more than anything. The problem is that, with each passing day, more fans throw in the towel, and the main reason is: too much vagueness, ambiguity, and not any concrete statement.

The reason fans scour over every peep that Bioware makes, be in on Twitter, Facebook or here, is the very fact that there hasn't been *anything* said that concretely addresses the main concerns. So, I don't think the fans can be blamed for their obsessive scrutiny with regards to communication from BW's general direction.

We want a sign of life.

[TheOptimist]

Opsrbest wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...
I believe it's between page 30-35 if you want to get specific but since you don't like that one I shall find you another.

Wait, you are basing your entire argument on something that took place a month ago, here, thought I'd do your work for you.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/30
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/31
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/32
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/33
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/34
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9512916/35

Funny part is I just read through those pages and the person using the worst language is a guy telling people to buy the game and not believe the leaks.

Funny part for me is I said I believe it was those pages. Damn good of me too have a memory that remembers that far back.

Except the Retakers there were the exact opposite of what you said.  Again, it was the guy arguing with the Retakers that was using language, and even he wasn't really insulting people.

And that has to do with wut? I said I beleive it's those pages. Which means that I believe, but have no proof that it is actually those pages at the time that I posted that response. So, to say in clearity, I don't really care. I'm not skimming through a couple thousand pages to find the posts to give to the person I was replying to because he sniped a tweet.

But you're the one who originally picked that thread...

[Apocsapel91]

With great power, comes great responsibility.

[Amaradus]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Danilo Luis wrote...

There's a huge difference between *listen* and give it the proper attention.

If you aren't willing to accept a response that disagrees with you, or aren't wililng to wait for an answer, or you insist that all of your issues must be resolved when you want them to be, then you're no longer making simple requests and giving feedback, are you? At that point, I would say you're making demands because you feel entitled to them, and we treat those very differently than we treat requests. Which is why we encourage people to be civil and patient and reasonable in their posts.

I can see your point on this and being resonable and polite is always encourged and something that I strive to do. However, I would like to point out that a majority of the demands people are making in reguards to the ending are entitled to them, I mean a lot of promises were made about how the game would be in pre-release interviews that never came to fruition, and a lot of the plot holes that have been exposed do deserve some sort of answer. I also turst that bioware is going to do what it needs to do in order to respond to the reasonable demands. I do belive there is some sort of entitlement to be had by the community, after all we did pay for it in the end. 

[Geneaux486]

Well it all boils down to logic, i don't like yours and thats why you like the endings and I don't.

 
Agreed.

At the end of a trilogy i don't want to speculate the ending, i actually want to see it,

 
I get that, and honestly I wouldn't mind seeing a little more.  I wouldn't say "Don't change the ending no matter what", because if Bioware does put out supplementary content, I'm sure it will be on par with the rest of the series.  I'm simply of the opinion that they don't *have* to.

And i'm done, have fun.

Later dude.  We got off to a rough start, but overall it was nice talking to you.

[jb1983]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Paparob wrote...

I was actually building towards that. Well I hope you don't mind me asking but did you? Just as one fan to another, I'm curious to see if you picked the game up recently or if you've been following the series for a while.

Edit: Off topic slightly but how is that a hard question? lol Also feel free to jump in with questions if you have them, its not like I'm the designated "Questioner of Stanley Woo" 

I have not played the series from start to finish, though I worked on Mass effect 2.

You, sir, are missing out. 

Get off these forums, fire up ME1, and get to business. 

[WildcardCharlie]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Later dude.  We got off to a rough start, but overall it was nice talking to you.

What is this? Ending conversation amicably?

Nonsense, lower the cage. Only one of you is coming out with a spleen.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

Stanley Woo wrote...
It's funny. Then you of all people should realize that, as a developer, we already have a very different view of the game and the development process than most gamers. Why would you then issue that challenge? I'm familiar with all the arguments, I have friends who have played the game, I have seen the endings with my own eyes, I have experienced a lot of the games leading up to it.

Besides which, every gamer is going to experience their games differently. who's to say that what you experience is going to be the same as what JoeGamer experiences, or what SusanPlayer experiences? I think your challenge of "play the game like I did and you'll feel the way I do" is misguided.

This is true, you won't please everyone.  But if you satisfy the general complaints in a reasonable manner, than it stands to reason you will please most of the people raising hell. 

[jb1983]

Helmchen2010 wrote...

I want to thank Stanley Woo and John Epler for spending so much time in this thread tonight. It's appreciated.

I hope you two understand just how badly large parts of the ME community want to be thrown a bone, *something* that indicates that Bioware is taking their concerns seriously. I know you will say, "Look, RAY wrote a long blog on just this", but no, that was a streamlined PR statement more than anything. The problem is that, with each passing day, more fans throw in the towel, and the main reason is: too much vagueness, ambiguity, and not any concrete statement.

The reason fans scour over every peep that Bioware makes, be in on Twitter, Facebook or here, is the very fact that there hasn't been *anything* said that concretely addresses the main concerns. So, I don't think the fans can be blamed for their obsessive scrutiny with regards to communication from BW's general direction.

We want a sign of life.

We were thrown a bone (I think). 

Being told, basically, "Guys, we can't say anything due to constraints, but trust me on this, please wait it out."

That, to me, is pure honesty. No PR manipulation. No cryptic messages. Just a guy at home off the clock letting the fans know that our concerns will be addressed as soon as Bioware can get something going. 

[Stanley Woo]

Hey, folks. Some people are having a very different conversation than the rest of us in this thread. Let's all try and remember to keep the name-calling and insults out of the conversation, please.

[bucyrus5000]

I say we challenge the 39 people above us on the list to a game of dodgeball or an eating contest, then we will see who really is number one.

[frypan]

Thanks to Stanley and John for engaging with us.

While I'm against the endings, like others I have a lot of faith in Bioware to listen to the fans and do something about it. Folks quote Bethesda as a company listening, but as far as I'm concerned, Witch Hunt was Bioware's answer to those seeking closure on the Morrigan storyline in DA1.

Thats right, one NPC from the game became a central aspect of a piece of DLC. As a fan of the character, it addressed my concerns that the Warden would have let her go.

Seems Bioware not only listens, but has a precedent for doing something about it. That's enough for me to have hope. Surpised the precedent hasnt been discussed more, unless I've missed a thread somewhere.

[DJBare]

TheOptimist wrote...
Yeah, but it doesn't even support his argument.  He claimed BSN retake folks were using terrible language to insult developers.  There were people unhappy with the end, but I didn't see anyone doing the kind of stuff he talked about.

I know, I've been monitoring and helping out in the thread, it's always a good idea to get a little background history especially when late to the party

[ShepnTali]

Yes, PLEASE add an ignore feature in the forum. Works great in other forums.

[Stanley Woo]

Exeider wrote...

The difference is I'm willing to work on a triple A game trilogy, in fact dying to work on one. and as far as an arguement, thats a far cry in effort from simply sitting down and playing your companies product that you believe in so much. The fact that you attempt to defuse it with such grandeouse statements just speaks to the obviousness.

I ask you to play the games, imbibe the product and come back with your answer. If you stand behind your product so much, please, put your money where you mouth is and try it. What are you afraid of?

Nothing, actually. Nor will I take your bait. You'll have to be satisfied that I'll get to the games when I get to them.

[MatronAdena]

John Epler wrote...


Hah, yes. Exactly like that.

I'd say 'I came up with it first!', but all you'd have are my word and whatever half-remembered drunken ramblings I expressed during ME2's development. Though in my version, the probe used mechanical spiders to gather resources and I pictured someone walking up to a pod only to have one launch itself at them.

you know I keep thinking you need to tie that in, with da, as well as bring back more JE... Take that back to the DA guys too, Blackwhirwind in DA lugging around a ME probe on a chain after seeing it fall and leveling a village.

okay nerd girl mode deactivated.


Though to Stan: you have my heart, not just you, all of you, I would love to PM some of the fun I went through with Acclaim everytime something went bump >.<

[Isichar]

Artistic integrity should be used when the creators want to defend something that is important to them. It should not be used as an excuse to keep yourself from having to explain something (and this entire time iv gotten nothing but the impression that its been used as an excuse) If someone creates a thread about how they like the ending and i say "your wrong. Hold the line!" then i cant really claim i addressed the OP with a well thought response. All i did was hide behind something that vaguely represents what i actually believe.
To me hearing the term "artistic integrity" feels like it would for a bioware employee to hear "hold the line" as a response to a perfectly valid view.

Modifié par Isichar, 29 mars 2012 - 04:25 .

[alx119]

jb1983 wrote...

Helmchen2010 wrote...

I want to thank Stanley Woo and John Epler for spending so much time in this thread tonight. It's appreciated.

I hope you two understand just how badly large parts of the ME community want to be thrown a bone, *something* that indicates that Bioware is taking their concerns seriously. I know you will say, "Look, RAY wrote a long blog on just this", but no, that was a streamlined PR statement more than anything. The problem is that, with each passing day, more fans throw in the towel, and the main reason is: too much vagueness, ambiguity, and not any concrete statement.

The reason fans scour over every peep that Bioware makes, be in on Twitter, Facebook or here, is the very fact that there hasn't been *anything* said that concretely addresses the main concerns. So, I don't think the fans can be blamed for their obsessive scrutiny with regards to communication from BW's general direction.

We want a sign of life.

We were thrown a bone (I think). 

Being told, basically, "Guys, we can't say anything due to constraints, but trust me on this, please wait it out."

That, to me, is pure honesty. No PR manipulation. No cryptic messages. Just a guy at home off the clock letting the fans know that our concerns will be addressed as soon as Bioware can get something going. 

To me it felt like, simply guys, off the record saying: We understand the frustration, but we really can't say anything else. 

Which is way better than what we have gotten so far. Not that I'm blaming -them- in particular, but well, just imo things could have been handled better. Then again, of course, it's an extremately delicate situation.