1334 réponses à ce sujet

[Skyblade012]

John Epler wrote...

Isichar wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Honestly, I don't think it's possible for anyone who's worked on the franchise extensively to approach the games in the same way as a fan who's been here since the beginning. By our very experiences we are already looking at things from a different perspective than you - while you romanced one or two people over your ME2 playthroughs, I've romanced all of 'em. Multiple times. My job, for six and a half months, was to scour the conversations on the Normandy and make sure to document any kind of weird cinematic design bugs that I could find.

I've already seen how sausage is made. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy a hot dog from time to time, but even if I still love them, I'm looking at them in a different way than you are. It's not something I can really do much about - I can't just forget the six and a half months I spent checking every possible permutation and variation of every possible dialogue that would fire on the ship. That's not to say that there aren't some people who can approach the games without their experience being coloured in such a fashion, but I don't think either Stan or myself are that person.

I think you underestimate how thoroughly some of us have played through this game...

Oh, I don't doubt that there are people who've seen the vast majority of most of the Normandy conversations. But it's a rather different experience when you play something with the intention of breaking it, versus playing it with the intention of enjoying it. I had Excel spreadsheets with the various ways to go through all the conversations, just to make sure I hit every single branch. And I did it. Numerous times. It's part of why it took me so long to play through ME2 - every time I got to the Normandy, I had to put the game down.

If you don't think you have fans who do precisely this, you don't know the fanbase perfectly (which is understandable).

I've done precisely this with almost all of the conversations in ME2.  Biggest annoyance there was the restrictiveness of the Paragon/Renegade system necessitating multiple playthroughs instead of just reloading like non-persuades require.

[Fapmaster5000]

Opsrbest wrote...

DJBare wrote...

WildcardCharlie wrote...
But he knows the ending inside out...In fact, so did I before I even played it.

Knowing about it and experiencing it are two vastly different things, I knew about the endings in great detail before I played, but it was only when I experienced it for myself did I really understand what others were complaining about.

Opposite for me.i finished the game before I saw all the complaining. And I still don't get how people are so worked up over it other then the fact that it ends with something they don't like. biowares response of wait and see what we have in April is about what I expected. 

Random questions, on a theory that's been nagging me (this is not an insult, please don't take it as such!):

How Long Have you been playing (which game did you start with, how many hours)?

Paragon/Renegade/Neutral?

How many playthroughs?"

Did you make "optimal" playthroughs?

Was the ending satisfying?

I have the beginnings of a hypothesis starting to form...

[alx119]

wagsnout wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Dr_Hello wrote...

Hey Stanley, I have a general question.

Out of curiosity,
Does BioWare, before releasing a game, do game testing and surveys? such as, getting a private group of testers to play the entire prefinal game version and get their feedback, so then BW proceeds to finalizing the game?

Focus testing. yes we do, but probably not to the extent you're thinking.

No-one thought it was worth focus testing the ending to a trilogy the size of Mass Effect? Seriously? I don't like to bash Bioware but thats a serious lack of forward planning. This was a huge release and you didn't think to do dress rehersal of the finale?

My best guess is that they did test it, and they all somewhat liekd it. Or were afraid to speak up. We can speculate and stuff, thing is, it backfired. Why is now not really important, what's important is that there's some kind of fix for it. 

[Daedalus1773]

edit: nm, redacted

Modifié par Daedalus1773, 29 mars 2012 - 05:01 .

[Joryn01]

So here's a question. I just skimmed through this whole thread and so this question came to me. Some of the folks have complained about Bioware being too vague on some of their comments. Based on some of the earlier things that Bioware has stated, has anyone else thought that they have had something big planned and just want it to be a surprise and not spoil it. Not sure if this has been brought up before in other threads but it crossed my mind while reading this one.

[FabricatedWookie]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

twizbuck wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Greer wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Danilo Luis wrote...

There's a huge difference between *listen* and give it the proper attention.

If you aren't willing to accept a response that disagrees with you, or aren't wililng to wait for an answer, or you insist that all of your issues must be resolved when you want them to be, then you're no longer making simple requests and giving feedback, are you? At that point, I would say you're making demands because you feel entitled to them, and we treat those very differently than we treat requests. Which is why we encourage people to be civil and patient and reasonable in their posts.

That's quite the low blow, don't you think?

Most people weren't expecting a fix right now. We know those things take time. All most people wanted was acknowledgement that we were upset, that there had been an error in judgement made, and that steps would be taken to rectify said error.

Instead, we got silence.

Mr.Woo is correct actually.  I did not know BioWare telling you they are listening and taking feedback from fans and then Ray coming out and telling you they are working on it and more details will be announced in april is silence.

That is in no way silence, obviously there are rules, and they can't just go out and tell you what you want when you want.  They atleast can tell you they are working on it, which they have said multiple times.

How is this not enough for people?

Because there's no guarantee the announcement will be what the fans want. And yes, I know not every single fan wants a different ending, but the vast majority does, and we need to make sure that's what the announcement will be about. If it's on anything else Mass Effect related (Retake Omega, Multiplayer especially), it could and most likely will be disasterous for Bioware.

Listen, what is in the game is not just going to go away, people need to get over that, it is NOT going to happen. IT'S GOING TO STAY THERE.  Hopefully though there will be ending DLC.  We have to wait until April to see though, if you do not get what you wanted in the april announcement, THEN you can complain, but right now, they said they're working on it and we will find out more in april, so why do people continue to complain?

 Pressure needs to still exist even if they promise (with pinky swears) to fix what is broken. Silence would would be a deflating action and a lot of people understand that momentum must be maintained in case the announcement  is simply a red herring.

[John Epler]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Well, their goes Woo. Thanks for talking with us man. Is john Epler still here?

You have me until this glass of scotch runs out. Then, bed time.

[Isichar]

Skyblade012 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Isichar wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Honestly, I don't think it's possible for anyone who's worked on the franchise extensively to approach the games in the same way as a fan who's been here since the beginning. By our very experiences we are already looking at things from a different perspective than you - while you romanced one or two people over your ME2 playthroughs, I've romanced all of 'em. Multiple times. My job, for six and a half months, was to scour the conversations on the Normandy and make sure to document any kind of weird cinematic design bugs that I could find.

I've already seen how sausage is made. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy a hot dog from time to time, but even if I still love them, I'm looking at them in a different way than you are. It's not something I can really do much about - I can't just forget the six and a half months I spent checking every possible permutation and variation of every possible dialogue that would fire on the ship. That's not to say that there aren't some people who can approach the games without their experience being coloured in such a fashion, but I don't think either Stan or myself are that person.

I think you underestimate how thoroughly some of us have played through this game...

Oh, I don't doubt that there are people who've seen the vast majority of most of the Normandy conversations. But it's a rather different experience when you play something with the intention of breaking it, versus playing it with the intention of enjoying it. I had Excel spreadsheets with the various ways to go through all the conversations, just to make sure I hit every single branch. And I did it. Numerous times. It's part of why it took me so long to play through ME2 - every time I got to the Normandy, I had to put the game down.

If you don't think you have fans who do precisely this, you don't know the fanbase perfectly (which is understandable).

I've done precisely this with almost all of the conversations in ME2.  Biggest annoyance there was the restrictiveness of the Paragon/Renegade system necessitating multiple playthroughs instead of just reloading like non-persuades require.

As i said earlier, bioware attracts the OCD gamers that wanna comb the game for any difference in variation.

[Isichar]

John Epler wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Well, their goes Woo. Thanks for talking with us man. Is john Epler still here?

You have me until this glass of scotch runs out. Then, bed time.

Question!
Scotch on the rocks?

Modifié par Isichar, 29 mars 2012 - 04:58 .

[Dr_Hello]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Dr_Hello wrote...

Hey Stanley, I have a general question.

Out of curiosity,
Does BioWare, before releasing a game, do game testing and surveys? such as, getting a private group of testers to play the entire prefinal game version and get their feedback, so then BW proceeds to finalizing the game?

Focus testing. yes we do, but probably not to the extent you're thinking.

Cool. Thanks!

[Tehzim]

John Epler wrote...

VigilancePress wrote...

People, seriously?

Two folks from BioWare tune in, talk to us, and you start trying to drive them away by calling them liars and taking everything they say apart right in front of them.

...and you wonder *why* they aren't talking to us?

I mean, I'm angry about the game, but c'mon. When someone comes to the table, you don't slap them in the face and then expect them to talk to you.

Honestly, by and large people are being quite civil. There are always exceptions, but it's certainly the minority in this thread.

It is great to talk to someone "in the trenches."  I know unexpected harsh criticism for something you spend time and love on can be really crushing.  Most of us want to be a respectable movement.  That's the reason for the cupcakes, the charity drive,  we want to show good faith, especially in the creators of ME universe.  I for one was surprised and really liked that we got a response from Dr. Ray himself.  But the waiting is hard.  Forgive us if we're a little wary and grumpy.

[T-Zero]

John Epler wrote...

T-Zero wrote...

That stinks.  The Normandy convo's are really what carried the game for me.  But I can understand; if you have hamburger every day for a week, you really don't want anything but fried chicken after...

Well, the bright side of all that was that I got the opportunity to cut my teeth by doing the cinematic design work for all the non-critical Joker conversations. So it was certainly a positive step in that regard. And the Normandy conversations were great - I was a particular fan of the Garrus work. In the end, I was able to go back and enjoy them properly, but it did take a while. And my perspective was, in the end, still different than someone who didn't work on the game.

Yeah.  I'm glad I didn't work on the game...  even on my (stops to check number of character saves in ME2) 12 playthrough, I still get a lot of fun out of seeing every different reaction I can get out of my team.

[MetalCargo999]

TY.

[leondes1]

Stanley Woo wrote...

And as there's a bit of a lull (finally!), I get to go home. Later, gators!

'

Rest up Stanley, you deserve it:)

Thanks again for stopping in.

[Zuka999]

Could you guys pass on this video to the developers? Its a very good, tastefully done critique of the ending. It sums up everything.

[Dr_Hello]

OK OK, I shall reveal who I am really...

[granyte]

Isichar wrote...

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

Guys, don't be so hard on these two. They're powerless to do anything except forward our complaints to those who can change things.

Whos been hard on them? Iv seen questions and opinions but I dont see anyone here directly attacking them. Just saying.

There was the dude demanding that they play the game, start to finish, full completion.  That's a bit harsh, considering how they've probably seen the game like chopped liver for years of their lives.  It's hard to see the forest after you've stared a trees for a long time.  I see where both sides are coming from, but it could be seen as aggressive. 

I disagree. Dont take this as a flamer response, I just dont believe the posts your talking about were very offensive or particularly rude enough to warrant it been seen as aggresive. It was simply someone saying he thinks they should play through the games before they post. I dont personally feel the Mods MUST play through the games to do their jobs so thats fine but its a valid point nonetheless.

I appreciate the fact the mods are taking time to respond to people and i dont want to scare them off. But that does not mean that people cant disagree.

a mods meh not important enough
but as the only guys who post on the forum and interact with the comunauty getting to have an idea of how the comunauty see it should be part of it other wise they can do C&C4 all over again

you know the whole hiring a director and a lead writer who don't like C&C and RTS at all to beggin with to work on the grand-pa of all RTS

[John Epler]

Isichar wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Well, their goes Woo. Thanks for talking with us man. Is john Epler still here?

You have me until this glass of scotch runs out. Then, bed time.

Question!
Scotch on the rocks?

Neat, until I acquire a set of those wonderful whiskey ice cubes (the ones that you freeze and which don't actually melt in your drink).

[DJBare]

Opsrbest wrote... Opposite for me.i finished the game before I saw all the complaining. And I still don't get how people are so worked up over it other then the fact that it ends with something they don't like. biowares response of wait and see what we have in April is about what I expected. 

Good, glad you enjoyed it, that's not sarcasm, you accept what they sold you hence got your money's worth, however 80% of the fan base disagrees, now it does not matter whether you enjoyed it or I disliked it, but when 80% of the fan base has a problem, then Bioware have a problem, not you, not me, Bioware.

Modifié par DJBare, 29 mars 2012 - 05:00 .

[Estelindis]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Exeider wrote...
I would request that you play ME1 to the end, do every side mission, import to ME 2, recruit everyone, do every side mission, every loyalty mission, then import to ME3, recruit everyone, do every side mission, and get to the end.

in short, I want YOU, Stanley Woo, to drop 100 hours into Mass Effect, and get to the end, and tell me it ISN'T Anti-climactic.

edit: and video tape your reaction, i wanna see this.

-AE

If you are paying for my time to do that, I would be happy to. Failing that, however, you'll have to be happy with me deciding my own priorites and getting to the games when I can. Gotta warn you, though, I'm not cheap and I like pie. Lots of pie.

I apologise if someone has already posted this (I've haven't read the whole thread), but does anyone else think this would be a great candidate for our next Retake ME3 fundraiser?   

Stan: "If you are paying for my time..."  
Community: challenge accepted.

[alx119]

John Epler wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Well, their goes Woo. Thanks for talking with us man. Is john Epler still here?

You have me until this glass of scotch runs out. Then, bed time.

The square root of 906.1 is? 

[TheOptimist]

Joryn01 wrote...

So here's a question. I just skimmed through this whole thread and so this question came to me. Some of the folks have complained about Bioware being too vague on some of their comments. Based on some of the earlier things that Bioware has stated, has anyone else thought that they have had something big planned and just want it to be a surprise and not spoil it. Not sure if this has been brought up before in other threads but it crossed my mind while reading this one.

Not to put a damper on that kind of thinking, but I'm really kind of hoping they never saw this reaction coming.  An honest mistake is an honest mistake.  Planning for a reaction like this...I'll just say I really think and hope they wouldn't do that.

[thoreauscabin]

Are you indefinitely bound to EA? Will there ever be a chance for Bioware to get out of it's clutches?

I hear Bethesda is pretty nice...

[NeoNight1986]

I wanted to say THANK YOU to both Stanley Woo and John Epler for conversing with us. ( i know its been said, but i feel the need to say it) Thank you both for all you do. and Stanley i hope you enjoy your play though of ME3 when you get to it. It is a great game overall. (i am on the side of ending issues though.)

my only question i would ask is, the import face bug that was found. that seems rather large. is it likely they knew about it and released it? or didn't test with characters from ME1? and if you don't know that's ok to. i am just curious (and sorry if this has been answered. i haven't seen it yet.)

[Dr_Hello]

Zuka999 wrote...



Could you guys pass on this video to the developers? Its a very good, tastefully done critique of the ending. It sums up everything.

Does this video also explain why the universe is currently expanding? and why life does exist?

OK jokes aside, it is a great video for sure. Informative, critical, and entertaining too.

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 29 mars 2012 - 05:04 .