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Probably is the scotch which is starting to take effectJohn Epler wrote...
HenchxNarf wrote...
Oh! Epler, if you're still here.
ME or DA, which do you like to play the most?
Tough call. I enjoy them both for different reasons - DA for the scope, ME for the feel. It seems vague, and that's because it's hard to articulate what I enjoy about both franchises.
Modifié par bucyrus5000, 29 mars 2012 - 05:52 .
El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...
Probably is the scotch which is starting to take effectJohn Epler wrote...
HenchxNarf wrote...
Oh! Epler, if you're still here.
ME or DA, which do you like to play the most?
Tough call. I enjoy them both for different reasons - DA for the scope, ME for the feel. It seems vague, and that's because it's hard to articulate what I enjoy about both franchises.
John Epler wrote...
Fapmaster5000 wrote...
You know, Bioware could have utterly flipped that troll around by declaring, "While we like the taste of red, blue, and green, the taste of your tiny, tiny tears were the best part." I'd have been pissed, but I'd also have had to bow to them for that.
In my time in the games industry, I can think of maybe three people for whom I'd be sorely tempted to respond in a fashion similar to this. Only one of them comes from this forum, though, and two of them aren't even a result of anything BioWare related.
goodventure wrote...
@John Epler
Quick question before I miss you.
Kaidan or Ashley?
Ashley. We had some good times in ME1 - despite the popular 'space ****' appellation, I always found her distrust of aliens to be, while not entirely reasonable, not without some amount of justification. I liked Kaidan, too - don't get me wrong. He did his job quietly and without complaint, and would only ever open up if you actively sought out his opinion. But he still ate a nuke, two out of three times.
Stanley Woo wrote...
And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?Skirlasvoud wrote...
And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.
Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.
Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.
Bright side to all of this: Cupcakes, Toys for children (disregarding motive), and Marauder Shields.John Epler wrote...
Fapmaster5000 wrote...
You know, Bioware could have utterly flipped that troll around by declaring, "While we like the taste of red, blue, and green, the taste of your tiny, tiny tears were the best part." I'd have been pissed, but I'd also have had to bow to them for that.FabricatedWookie wrote...
But the cupcakes did have less than secret troll faces on themBanelash wrote...
HenchxNarf wrote...
I miss all the funBut I'm glad they came around. I read through what they were saying and it's sad that people were being rude to them at the beginning.
@Bathaius They didn't alienate anyone. From what we know, they're only explaining and clarifying the endings. They're not changing anything.
Man have you seen CoD fans? Look what CoD fans did to Robert Bowling Tweet feeds. So much cursing and death threats.
Bioware fans are considered angels. Heck they even sent cupcakes to them.
In my time in the games industry, I can think of maybe three people for whom I'd be sorely tempted to respond in a fashion similar to this. Only one of them comes from this forum, though, and two of them aren't even a result of anything BioWare related.
John Epler wrote...
goodventure wrote...
@John Epler
Quick question before I miss you.
Kaidan or Ashley?
Ashley. We had some good times in ME1 - despite the popular 'space ****' appellation, I always found her distrust of aliens to be, while not entirely reasonable, not without some amount of justification. I liked Kaidan, too - don't get me wrong. He did his job quietly and without complaint, and would only ever open up if you actively sought out his opinion. But he still ate a nuke, two out of three times.
John Epler wrote...
Stan talks to you because Stan has a passion and love of our community that's equal parts his good nature and his longstanding association with the company. That's not to say that other developers don't also love the community, but he's willing to talk with you even when there's not much of substance anyone can say at the moment, because he likes to make sure that our community is a constructive and healthy place where people can go to discuss games and whatever else is on their mind.
I would wager that the 'gatekeepers', as you put it, are well aware of what the community has said thus far. Again, I'm not a member of the ME team, so I can't talk to specifics, but it is not as easy as saying 'well, people want Y, let's tell them what we're doing!'. I know it can be frustrating, but once again I counsel patience.
To be honesty, that stupid twitter and facebook account is just convoluted and stupid.Ubergrog wrote...
Stanley Woo wrote...
And that's the reason more of us don't come in here to discuss things with you. Every line, every word is dissected, criticized, and jumped on. We are accused of lying, of being incompetent, disingenuous, greedy, and apathetic. We are accused of not listening to the fans, not knowing what they want, and not caring about them. We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?Skirlasvoud wrote...
And let me just state that you have my respect for coming out here and argueing with us Stanley Woo. That's more than most of your company do with their misinterpretations of our qualms. This is dirty fighting and the odds are against you facing a mob of rabid fans, but hats off that you'd have the guts to engage us at our level.
Nothing personal as we keep taking cracks at Bioware.
Come on, you can't distrust everything we say and insist we tell you things at the exact same time.
No offense Stanley, but you cannot claim that because you have not told us anything except vague answers with zero substance. It's not your fault, you are almost certainly bound by NDA's. We dissect, criticize and jump on these statements for a reason, because a -lot- of your answers require tea leaves and goat livers to divine the meaning.
Also.. we -have- been lied to, or at least decieved, if you need evidence of this, it is stacked high everywhere you see people quoting the authors about endings. If we are wrong, we have not been told -why- we are wrong. Thusly, the whole thing becomes a "nuh-uh!" conversation. Again, not your fault, you are protecting more then your ego here.
Also, an important point that you are dead wrong about. Badly written endings DO yeild a LOT of conversation. Mostly about how bad they are (we see a lot of this) and how people would change it (we see a lot of this). We also see people taking matters into their own hands with art or literary skills (we see a lot of this) and a general declaration that the author has alienated their fanbase (we have seen a lot of this).
Discussion is a great thing, it brings attention to the product. However, do not forget that attention can be negative.
This answer makes me cry. T_T I can't ever bring myself to nuke Kaidan!John Epler wrote...
goodventure wrote...
@John Epler
Quick question before I miss you.
Kaidan or Ashley?
Ashley. We had some good times in ME1 - despite the popular 'space ****' appellation, I always found her distrust of aliens to be, while not entirely reasonable, not without some amount of justification. I liked Kaidan, too - don't get me wrong. He did his job quietly and without complaint, and would only ever open up if you actively sought out his opinion. But he still ate a nuke, two out of three times.
Ubergrog wrote...
No offense Stanley, but you cannot claim that because you have not told us anything except vague answers with zero substance. It's not your fault, you are almost certainly bound by NDA's. We dissect, criticize and jump on these statements for a reason, because a -lot- of your answers require tea leaves and goat livers to divine the meaning.
Stanley Woo wrote...
Yup, we would have, just as we've done for the last (at least) 10 years.Geneaux486 wrote...
Bioware has proven themselves to listen to fans with regards to Mass Effect. We see it in the changes they made to the second game, and to the third, and in the DLC they put out for Mass Effect 2. I think they would have listened to fan criticism about the ending no matter what form it came in.
StrawberryRainPop wrote...
still, the difference is whether or not Bioware decided to create a fake ending and release it as DLC for the real ending, which would explain the bad writing at the end.
I still find it hard to believe no one at bioware saw the ending and was fine with it. I still think this was planned all along. There no way that huge drop in storytelling quality can go unnoticed. The only explanation is ending DLC, and right now Bioware knows we will definetly buy it....
FabricatedWookie wrote...
but according to kotaku we are the power @.@
Stanley Woo wrote...
I'm sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.Snakedude4life wrote...
But who asked for this ending? What feedback showed you (or rather the designers) that we wanted "space magic"? or a ending that can be summed as "Red, Green or Blue"? Also, did the feedback show that people who might want to import an ME1 Face would have problems?
If you wish to sum up the conclusion of a multi-part epic game series as "Red, Green, and Blue," then feel free to. But please don't then complain that the endings are oversimplified. You are the one who has slapped that label onto it, not us.I would be wary of making such assumptions. Since you aren't on the development team, you can't really know if it was missed, what the issues invovled are, or how or why it appears in the final game. This is a common assumption when players find bugs in the game, but few bugs are well and truly "missed," as you define it.(I still would like to hear how you guys missed that)
HenchxNarf wrote...
StrawberryRainPop wrote...
still, the difference is whether or not Bioware decided to create a fake ending and release it as DLC for the real ending, which would explain the bad writing at the end.
I still find it hard to believe no one at bioware saw the ending and was fine with it. I still think this was planned all along. There no way that huge drop in storytelling quality can go unnoticed. The only explanation is ending DLC, and right now Bioware knows we will definetly buy it....
Why? It's your opinion that the endings suck. It's other peoples opinion that they like it. And apparently BW liked their ending to their story, and as per Hudson, they're not changing it.
But don't you see what they have done? THEY HAVE MADE US THE MAN!HenchxNarf wrote...
FabricatedWookie wrote...
but according to kotaku we are the power @.@
I think they were being sardonic.
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