1334 réponses à ce sujet

[XyleJKH]

Sorry Stan... as talented a the team is, the ending bombed... The entire series. I'm sure it will be fixed though. If you don't understand why out bombed maybe read the thought provoking threads. The fact that we need to point these out baffles me

[xHarrison23]

Quotes stanley woo.....

Procedes to brown nose.

But for real. Great game, but the ending felt rushsed and did not reflect biowares typically amazing work

Modifié par xHarrison23, 29 mars 2012 - 01:54 .

[twizbuck]

Stanley Woo wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Ok but why exactly have you done the ending in the worst possible way? The endings of the prequels were great. Why the drastical change? I can't think about it without DA2 comming to mind.

I disagree that the ending was done "in the worst possible way." After all, there have been positive comments and it has spawned a lot of great discussion, theories, and criticism. A "worst possible" ending would not have had that kind of power.

Why is it so hard for you to stick to a successful formula? Is it a sort of contest? I don't get it.

If you have a formula to guarantee that everyone will like waht you've done, then you have a billion-dollar idea that every game developer would love to buy from you. But there are no guarantees when you're talking about business or creative ventures. At best, you can go with things that generally wort or things that many people would like most of the time. You can get a basic idea of the difficulty in coming up with a guaranteed winning idea by seeing the spectrum of emotions and threads posted in this very forum. Even in this thread there are varied responses and feelings about the ending.

But what do the majority of people on the Bioware forums think of the ending?

[cuzsal]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Snakedude4life wrote...

But who asked for this ending? What feedback showed you (or rather the designers) that we wanted "space magic"? or a ending that can be summed as "Red, Green or Blue"? Also, did the feedback show that people who might want to import an ME1 Face would have problems?

I'm sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

If you wish to sum up the conclusion of a multi-part epic game series as "Red, Green, and Blue," then feel free to. But please don't then complain that the endings are oversimplified. You are the one who has slapped that label onto it, not us.

(I still would like to hear how you guys missed that)

I would be wary of making such assumptions. Since you aren't on the development team, you can't really know if it was missed, what the issues invovled are, or how or why it appears in the final game. This is a common assumption when players find bugs in the game, but few bugs are well and truly "missed," as you define it.

wow find hard to belive i just read that lol, first we all love Bioware games because of those talented, creative people that work there and give us such amazing games, but we did not "oversimplified" the ending you guys created 1 ending, 1 ending cinmatic changed it very very silghty added 3 colors to them and gave us what is causing all of this drama. I for one hope that you guys are able to fix this ending or add to it to make it feel as epic as the the rest of the story, I for one was in total love with ME3 till the final 15 to 20 mins

[dakka dakka]

More like

Bioware had planned ending DLC all along and just did this PR stunt to make it seem like we have the power.

amirite?

[Texhnolyze101]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Most people weren't expecting a fix right now. We know those things take time. All most people wanted was acknowledgement that we were upset, that there had been an error in judgement made, and that steps would be taken to rectify said error.

They did acknowlege that some fans were upset. That doesn't mean they would (or should) agree that the ending was a mistake. There are many good reasons to stand by it. Their willingness to compromise as much as they already have has gone above and beyond what I'd expect from any developement team.

There is absolutely no reason to stand by those endings and the only reason to want to do so is if you don't really care about the franchise anymore.

[Diablos2525]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Snakedude4life wrote...

But who asked for this ending? What feedback showed you (or rather the designers) that we wanted "space magic"? or a ending that can be summed as "Red, Green or Blue"? Also, did the feedback show that people who might want to import an ME1 Face would have problems?

I'm sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

If you wish to sum up the conclusion of a multi-part epic game series as "Red, Green, and Blue," then feel free to. But please don't then complain that the endings are oversimplified. You are the one who has slapped that label onto it, not us.

(I still would like to hear how you guys missed that)

I would be wary of making such assumptions. Since you aren't on the development team, you can't really know if it was missed, what the issues invovled are, or how or why it appears in the final game. This is a common assumption when players find bugs in the game, but few bugs are well and truly "missed," as you define it.

Mr. Woo, while I agree that people need to be patient and that some posters are going to far with their demands it IS accurate to sum up the ending of the trilogy as red, green, or blue. I would like to ask you if you have seen the short video which plays six of the endings side by side at once. The same assets are used for 95% of the scene, the main difference being the colors red, green, and blue depending on your choice at the end of the game.

I don't think you can really make a statement against the endings being defined in this way until you have seen this short video. Thank you.

www.youtube.com/watch

[Texhnolyze101]

dakka dakka wrote...

More like

Bioware had planned ending DLC all along and just did this PR stunt to make it seem like we have the power.

amirite?

Your giving them way to much credit.

[F3rnando Bacate]

I think the game industry is in a very delicated moment.
Years ago, all we had was the game and that was it. Deal with it. If the game was good, we had fun.
If the game was bad, we would just dump that and play another.

Since the age of internet and all communication, to talk and being heard got too accessible.
That's whats Bioware is showing, just an example.

They cannot just ignore the fanbase. Now, if you don't like something or some part of the game, you can gather everyone who thinks like you and give that feedback to the dev's from the bottom of your heart, with all good ideas and education you've got. And they gotta listen.

Doesn't mean they will do somethin about it, but they will definetely feel the immense power of the fans. Because who makes the game, are us.
A game is an interactive art. It's not a paint, to which you stare for long minutes.
You play a game. You see, you listen, you make your choices, you forge your way...
Even if it's linear game, where you shoot the targets and kill the boss, you still have to interact with it. You have to play it in your way and put yourself on the place of the protagonist.

That's the point.
Today isn't anymore the era of super nintendo or playsation I.
Today, we are (at least looking forward) to make the games we will enjoy together with the great producers, like Bioware.

Mass Effect is the best and priceless state-of-the-art, prime-work piece of gaming art that has come out since 2007. I will always be thankful to Bioware for giving us this universe and all that there's in this, and I will always support'em, because I know that, even when somethin we don't would like to happen (like the ME3 end), still happen; I know that they will be there for us.

Thank you Bioware. I"m with you.

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

Greer wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Danilo Luis wrote...

There's a huge difference between *listen* and give it the proper attention.

If you aren't willing to accept a response that disagrees with you, or aren't wililng to wait for an answer, or you insist that all of your issues must be resolved when you want them to be, then you're no longer making simple requests and giving feedback, are you? At that point, I would say you're making demands because you feel entitled to them, and we treat those very differently than we treat requests. Which is why we encourage people to be civil and patient and reasonable in their posts.

That's quite the low blow, don't you think?

Most people weren't expecting a fix right now. We know those things take time. All most people wanted was acknowledgement that we were upset, that there had been an error in judgement made, and that steps would be taken to rectify said error.

Instead, we got silence.

Mr.Woo is correct actually.  I did not know BioWare telling you they are listening and taking feedback from fans and then Ray coming out and telling you they are working on it and more details will be announced in april is silence.

That is in no way silence, obviously there are rules, and they can't just go out and tell you what you want when you want.  They atleast can tell you they are working on it, which they have said multiple times.

How is this not enough for people?

[Greer]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I disagree that the ending was done "in the worst possible way." After all, there have been positive comments and it has spawned a lot of great discussion, theories, and criticism. A "worst possible" ending would not have had that kind of power.

Are you being serious right now? Really? When the bulk of your fanbase latches onto "It was all a dream" as the most logical explanation for what they've seen, there is a problem. A large one. That usually does point to "something is so awful, and nonsensical it can be comprehended no other way". So, yes. Yes it does have that kind of power.

[The Angry One]

Also I'd like to know if you think Bethesda is populated with talented and creative individuals or not.
If Todd Howard and the rest of Bethesda, who've made some great games over the years, can stand up and admit they messed up, then I ask you why can't BioWare?

[crimsontotem]

Stanley Woo wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Ok but why exactly have you done the ending in the worst possible way? The endings of the prequels were great. Why the drastical change? I can't think about it without DA2 comming to mind.

I disagree that the ending was done "in the worst possible way." After all, there have been positive comments and it has spawned a lot of great discussion, theories, and criticism. A "worst possible" ending would not have had that kind of power.

Why is it so hard for you to stick to a successful formula? Is it a sort of contest? I don't get it.

If you have a formula to guarantee that everyone will like waht you've done, then you have a billion-dollar idea that every game developer would love to buy from you. But there are no guarantees when you're talking about business or creative ventures. At best, you can go with things that generally wort or things that many people would like most of the time. You can get a basic idea of the difficulty in coming up with a guaranteed winning idea by seeing the spectrum of emotions and threads posted in this very forum. Even in this thread there are varied responses and feelings about the ending.

so you guys are agreeing that this time, you guys missed it... and screwed it up big time right? I mean... if you guys have something on your sleeve, I am ok with that.... but seriously, you must have forseen this movement.

[Pedro Costa]

No longer the minority!
-Holding the line... like a baws

[EnforcerWRX7]

Stanley...

There ARE very basic methods of story telling. They are taught year after year in film school, writing school and in even basic literature.

So yes, there ARE basic formulas. They won't guarantee 100% approval but they will get at least 80%. Its the standard hero's journey narrative and its as old as the roman empire.


99% of ME3 was incredible but when someone burns down your boat before you sail it, it really makes it pointless to say:

"But you had fun building it, right!?"

Modifié par EnforcerWRX7, 29 mars 2012 - 01:55 .

[S Atomeha]

this is a surprise.

[Taboo]

dakka dakka wrote...

More like

Bioware had planned ending DLC all along and just did this PR stunt to make it seem like we have the power.

amirite?

The speculation is killing me!

[petipas4141]

with all due respect, and ESPECIALLY considering that closure was promised, pointing out that the ending has basically caused "lots of speculation from everyone" is a BAD THING

[ZeBlob987]

just gonna say, major props to Stanley Woo for actually posting in this thread. He also has some valid points, though I disagree with a few (it is not the worst possible ending [The game ending with the Reapers winning and the cycle continuing no matter what, for example, is worse in terms of writing, or close to it.] , but the discussion about it does not make it better than that.).

[Geneaux486]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Most people weren't expecting a fix right now. We know those things take time. All most people wanted was acknowledgement that we were upset, that there had been an error in judgement made, and that steps would be taken to rectify said error.

They did acknowlege that some fans were upset. That doesn't mean they would (or should) agree that the ending was a mistake. There are many good reasons to stand by it. Their willingness to compromise as much as they already have has gone above and beyond what I'd expect from any developement team.

There is absolutely no reason to stand by those endings and the only reason to want to do so is if you don't really care about the franchise anymore.

Long as we're stating our own opinions as facts:  There is absolutely no reason to stand against those endings and the only reason to want to do so is if you don't really care about the franchise anymore. 

Seriously though, I can understand having problems with the ending, but to say that it is factually bad, and that anyone who thinks otherwise is just wrong, says more about your own ego than anything else.  There are plenty of people on this very forum who like the ending.  They've made topics, they've posted in discussions, and they bring great arguments in favor of the ending to the table. 

[twizbuck]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Greer wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Danilo Luis wrote...

There's a huge difference between *listen* and give it the proper attention.

If you aren't willing to accept a response that disagrees with you, or aren't wililng to wait for an answer, or you insist that all of your issues must be resolved when you want them to be, then you're no longer making simple requests and giving feedback, are you? At that point, I would say you're making demands because you feel entitled to them, and we treat those very differently than we treat requests. Which is why we encourage people to be civil and patient and reasonable in their posts.

That's quite the low blow, don't you think?

Most people weren't expecting a fix right now. We know those things take time. All most people wanted was acknowledgement that we were upset, that there had been an error in judgement made, and that steps would be taken to rectify said error.

Instead, we got silence.

Mr.Woo is correct actually.  I did not know BioWare telling you they are listening and taking feedback from fans and then Ray coming out and telling you they are working on it and more details will be announced in april is silence.

That is in no way silence, obviously there are rules, and they can't just go out and tell you what you want when you want.  They atleast can tell you they are working on it, which they have said multiple times.

How is this not enough for people?

Because there's no guarantee the announcement will be what the fans want. And yes, I know not every single fan wants a different ending, but the vast majority does, and we need to make sure that's what the announcement will be about. If it's on anything else Mass Effect related (Retake Omega, Multiplayer especially), it could and most likely will be disasterous for Bioware.

[petipas4141]

The Angry One wrote...

Also I'd like to know if you think Bethesda is populated with talented and creative individuals or not.
If Todd Howard and the rest of Bethesda, who've made some great games over the years, can stand up and admit they messed up, then I ask you why can't BioWare?

new avatar nails it

[Shallyah]

Patience is a virtue and one we must exercise now. As much as we can be disappointed, upset or discouraged about the ending, the fans have been listened to. It is obvious that we can't all just keep still and not talk about anything during this time in which Bioware works to make the content they deem appropriate, and obviously some of the hot topics will be beaten and beaten again, but as I've posted in other threads, I believe Bioware deserves some of our trust.

We also need to be aware that whatever they release will probably not satisfy every little concern from everyone, so we'll need to receive it with flexibility and possitivity. If Bioware do us proud by listening to us and actually redirecting their plans due to our feedback, we need to do them proud too by being good enough to match their efforts with patience and understanding.

And don't get me wrong. The ending truly crushed my soul, and disappointed me. But really, there are dozens of professionals of which only a few perhaps missunderstood or missjudged how the fanbase would perceive the last 30 minutes of over 100 hours of superb gameplay. All in all, they've put together the best sci-fi setting I've had the pleasure to witness. And I'm old enough to have witnessed Stargate, Star Trek and Star Wars, amongst others.

Yeah, some cheesyness here, but I guess I saw a Bioware poster in the thread and I felt like we fans sometimes don't show the appreciation they deserve for their work.

Modifié par Shallyah, 29 mars 2012 - 01:57 .

[The Angry One]

Geneaux486 wrote...
Seriously though, I can understand having problems with the ending, but to say that it is factually bad, and that anyone who thinks otherwise is just wrong, says more about your own ego than anything else.  There are plenty of people on this very forum who like the ending.  They've made topics, they've posted in discussions, and they bring great arguments in favor of the ending to the table. 

Hey good for them. They have the endings they want. Can we have ours now?

[Paparob]

This...this will probably not end well.

Edit: The issue is people just want a straight answer, whether it be positive or negative. The vague nature of responses so far, the wait until PAX and the fear that nothing substantial will come out of it is taking its toll on people.

Modifié par Paparob, 29 mars 2012 - 01:58 .