1334 réponses à ce sujet

[Geinen]

Raging Nug wrote...

I don't think Stanley's responsible for the work or comments of other people any more than you're responsible for the behavior of the Bioware Social Network as a whole.

Agreed.  But Stanley's posts have me puzzled.  I mean, I get that people raging on forums (and not always in a civil manner) can really get on one's nerves...especailly when trying to defend your work. 

But in the end, I look to everything he says as representation of the company he works for.  Thats business.  Everything you say reflects on your company.

And some of these posts ...I dunno.  They pretty disrespectful back. 

[sorentoft]

Stanley Woo wrote...

We are in a no-win position. And yet, people somehow want us to talk to them more?

*spacebar spam*

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

Raging Nug wrote...

Craven1138 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
I'm sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

And I was under impression BioWare promised there won't be A, B or C ending. Got any response to that?

I don't think Stanley's responsible for the work or comments of other people any more than you're responsible for the behavior of the Bioware Social Network as a whole.

If Casey Huson were here to respond, I would agree that this wouldn't be an appropriate response to Stanley.  But he is not.  Stanley represents Bioware on these forums, and Casey statements were made in an official capacity for Bioware.  Just as Stanley is free to call our criticisms of the game "oversimplifications", we are free to respond that the game was misrepresented to us.

Stanley is now free to respond, though I suspect he will use a version of the "That's your opinion, we don't agree with that" argument, rather than point to concrete examples of how the ending is not an A,B or C choice.

[Herr Igor]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Snakedude4life wrote...

But who asked for this ending? What feedback showed you (or rather the designers) that we wanted "space magic"? or a ending that can be summed as "Red, Green or Blue"? Also, did the feedback show that people who might want to import an ME1 Face would have problems?

I'm sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

If you wish to sum up the conclusion of a multi-part epic game series as "Red, Green, and Blue," then feel free to. But please don't then complain that the endings are oversimplified. You are the one who has slapped that label onto it, not us.

(I still would like to hear how you guys missed that)

I would be wary of making such assumptions. Since you aren't on the development team, you can't really know if it was missed, what the issues invovled are, or how or why it appears in the final game. This is a common assumption when players find bugs in the game, but few bugs are well and truly "missed," as you define it.

Today Bioware still has a choice. And its employees still have the choice ... Tomorrow it will need to bear with the consequences.

I'm pretty sure you're the most wonderful person in the galaxy though.

Modifié par Herr Igor, 29 mars 2012 - 10:36 .

[Myrmedus]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Exeider wrote...

hell, no, i reject that on principle alone, why should he get paid to do something WE did for ourselves.

I want him to go through the exact same course that we did. To pay him would negate the whole purpose of the experiment, because he would be doing for a pay check, not to see how it feels.

-AE

In that case, my counter-offer would be for you to ship an award-winning AAA game trilogy and moderate their online community so you can "go through the exact same course that we did." I mean, without going through that, how we trust any argument you make? how you have any basis by which to make any argument?

Personally, I think it's possible to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" without physically putting on their shoes and walking an actual mile. We can imagine and simulate much of it based on prior experience and our freedom of expression.

Sounds wonderful! Too bad the industry is notoriously difficult to get into!



But seriously, I think the point here is not that all the fans here think they can do a better job of Mass Effect across the whole series. Of course we don't think that, and anyone who shouts it out is just screaming hyperbole through anger and frustration (ie. likely doesn't actually think that). However, is it such a negative for us to point out the weaknesses and perhaps give feedback and suggestions about how to improve them?

What you're saying in your posts is hyperbole. Fans are commenting on certain things within the series and saying "they're weak, they can be improved like this, this and this etc." but you're going to the path of generalization ie: "the fans are saying everything we've done is terrible, they can do better in every way etc."

No, we're not, we're targetting a very specific, very weak part of the series. A part of the series that is of vital importance as well. And you're even being given suggestions, votes, polls etc. about how it could be improved or amended. I'm not sure what the problem is on that front?

Sure, I can understand how if you produce a piece of work and people try to lynch you over it, you'll be upset - I know I would. And I can imagine that coming to these forums to the virtual equivalent of having rotten vegetables thrown at you must suck. However, while I don't condone the latter, on the matter of the former I would argue you just need to take it on the chin and pucker up: deciding to produce an ending like that (one that deviates from the largely established narrative structures) had a considerable level of risk. That isn't to say trying something new is by definition bad, far from it, but it should IMO have at least been in the back of your minds the possibility it might go down like a lead balloon.

Ultimately, we need to feel BW is a group of people producing video games - a bunch of humans - and not a faceless corporation devoid of emotion or care. PR statements such as those that have come out only reinforce the feeling of the latter because they sound devoid of emotion or care. They sound like robots.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 29 mars 2012 - 10:18 .

[Bloodhound66]

Theres a saying that goes along wuth telling any joke...

"If you have to explain it, it wasn't a good joke."

I feel that this perfectly relates to the ending. If this were CoD, no one would care how it ended. But this was the end to an epic series. Don't insult me by telling me that my failure to see any logic in the ending, or that calling out bad writing or a writers contradctions, is me "oversimplifying." Especially when its more than obvious the majority of people agree.

[Herr Igor]

Bloodhound66 wrote...

Theres a saying that goes along wuth telling any joke...

"If you have to explain it, it wasn't a good joke."

I feel that this perfectly relates to the ending. If this were CoD, no one would care how it ended. But this was the end to an epic series. Don't insult me by telling me that my failure to see any logic in the ending, or that calling out bad writing or a writers contradctions, is me "oversimplifying." Especially when its more than obvious the majority of people agree.

"If you have to ask what it symbolizes, it didn't." - Roger Ebert on the subject of "storytelling suicide".

Modifié par Herr Igor, 29 mars 2012 - 10:35 .

[Axolotl Shepard]

Absolute Power is the only way to roll.

[JackofStaves]

Herr Igor wrote...

Bloodhound66 wrote...

Theres a saying that goes along wuth telling any joke...

"If you have to explain it, it wasn't a good joke."

I feel that this perfectly relates to the ending. If this were CoD, no one would care how it ended. But this was the end to an epic series. Don't insult me by telling me that my failure to see any logic in the ending, or that calling out bad writing or a writers contradctions, is me "oversimplifying." Especially when its more than obvious the majority of people agree.

"If you have to ask what it symbolizes, it didn't." - Roger Ebert on the subject of "storytelling suicide".

Both, this.  Nicely put, both of you...

[Stanley Woo]

I think we have exhausted discussion on the original purpose of this thread. thank you for all the cool discussion, everyone.

End of line.