210 réponses à ce sujet

[leimana]

Mr Indivisible wrote...

SimKoning wrote...

 No, this is not an indoctrination theory thread. 

After a couple weeks of working things out in my head, I have to be intellectually honest and admit that there was a lot about the ending that did go over my head at first. It's not my fault of course, the information provided during the ending was so sparse that it did effectively become a puzzle; speculation for everyone indeed. Now that I feel that I have figured it out, I have an odd sense of accomplishment and a strange love/hate relationship with the ending. Hopefully the expansion of the ending with confirm my conclusions, but it will sort of rob the fun of figuring all of this out. 

You may notice that I haven't actually posted what I have figured out. That's because the explanation will likely result in tl;dr responses. 

I'm handing over my rifle and leaving the line. It's been fun, but Bioware is more clever than I thought. I would love to share my conclusions with other fans, but if I do it here, I will likely get met with strong resistance because it doesn't jive with indoctrination "theory", or the belief that the endings are objectively bad. Maybe I'll do a video.. I'll have to think about it. 

This is the problem, your waiting for confirmation on the conclusion. This was supposed to be the conclusion, speculation is not a conclusion.

Exactly! This was the conclusion , and I am sick of the people who are like "OK I got it" but wont share their understanding of the ending. If you think you got it share it!

[Shaigunjoe]

Don't blame you OP, you didn't even explain and look at the responses. Everyday people come up with more creative explanations and build upon what others have said. You can easily get some ideas that fit snugly in the framework bioware set up by reading some of the forum posts. And what do the people that don't understand the ending do? Some are civil, and ask reasonable questions, but most just spit out the same 'ol same 'ol, it doesn't make sense, plot holes, its sad...etc etc.

Some people just need plots to be crystal clear to them from the moment of presentation, and it isn't really their fault, most tv/video game media is set up like this. It's no surprise that among my friends who read books love the ending. My friends who don't read many books really had no idea wtf happened in the end.

Some reasonable complaints are that 'bioware hasn't done anything like this before'. I get that, it would be like seeing inception without knowing it was all a dream to begin with, which is what the movie came down to, and everybody loved it. Personally I prefer a surprise that isn't hinted at.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 29 mars 2012 - 03:41 .

[cogsandcurls]

As somebody who picked the Green ending (WHY DID I DO THAT) I would honestly love anybody who thought the ending made sense to explain robot DNA to me. Truly.

[jumpingkaede]

viperabyss wrote...

EDIT: I guess my brain has failed me once again. OP does not believe in indoctrination theory. However, here's his reasoning if you'd like to know:

http://social.biowar...8905/1#10753604 

lol speculation.  It's not a bad theory, it's just complete speculation with \\really nothing tangible to support it in any way shape or form.

Congratulations!  Exactly what Hudson/Walters wanted. 

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 29 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[NubXL]

There's nothing deep about the ending. You're supposed to feel accomplished because you stopped the cycle so even if everyone in the current cycle dies, the next cycle will start without the reaper threat, and ultimately flourish in ways that previous cycles couldn't. Sacrifice for the greater good, future generations/species, blah, blah, blah.

[piemanz]

cogsandcurls wrote...

As somebody who picked the Green ending (WHY DID I DO THAT) I would honestly love anybody who thought the ending made sense to explain robot DNA to me. Truly.

Maybe instead of trying to work out how robot DNA works, think of the implications?

Modifié par piemanz, 29 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[tekkaman fear]

Screw this. Who's in charge of this offensive? Grow a pair and order a few battlefield executions. Desertion should not be tolerated!

[Lonsecia]

The major problem I see with the ending supposedly being designed to generate speculation is that it leaves the players pondering and trying to make sense of it rather than, you know, playing the game and actually enjoying themselves. I get that some people like the endings and that others simply don't give it a second thought, but for me, I can't play the game knowing that the ending (in my eyes) is a mess, lacks closure, and impact. And because I'm not playing, I'm not buying DLC.

I also get that some people enjoy speculation. I do too, but less so when it feels as though there are parts of the plot that were abandoned, other parts that were quite likely rushed, and yet others that were simply poor. I prefer my pondering to feel substantial, rather than 'well, I guess I'm going to have to build this ending on my own then'.

Also, I reckon robot DNA would stand for 'Derpshep Now Assimilated!' Or something funny.

[alberta]

I read the post of his Citadel/Reaper idea - nothing we didn't already know. The citadel was the dominate figurehead and used a familiar image with Sheppard no one could miss with all those idiot dreams. I think the point the God Kid himself used was Sheppard was the first organic to stand in Reaper control central. However, that wasn't even true and Anderson was there before him - then TIM which seems a little silly if not nonsense there and then. For some yet unexplained reason TIM merely walked there from the citadel - just when you needed bizarre there it was. Moreover not even the citadel can exist without energy of some type and again no one knows how it even got its energy to power civilization for each 50,000 year cycle for the people living there. Then we have the clunky way used to either destroy etc from the most advanced AI/organic hybrids - that seemed like something back in the days of steam engines. There's no way around bad - and man this entire section was terrible in the extreme.

[The Angry One]

If an ending is so vague and nonsensical that it becomes a "make your own ending", then it has failed. Period.

[KevShep]

I will "Hold The Line"...
...For every year...
...For every month...
...For every week...
...For every day...
...For every hour...
...For every minute...

...That I have spent playing this series!

[2484Stryker]

alberta wrote...

I read the post of his Citadel/Reaper idea - nothing we didn't already know. The citadel was the dominate figurehead and used a familiar image with Sheppard no one could miss with all those idiot dreams. I think the point the God Kid himself used was Sheppard was the first organic to stand in Reaper control central. However, that wasn't even true and Anderson was there before him - then TIM which seems a little silly if not nonsense there and then. For some yet unexplained reason TIM merely walked there from the citadel - just when you needed bizarre there it was. Moreover not even the citadel can exist without energy of some type and again no one knows how it even got its energy to power civilization for each 50,000 year cycle for the people living there. Then we have the clunky way used to either destroy etc from the most advanced AI/organic hybrids - that seemed like something back in the days of steam engines. There's no way around bad - and man this entire section was terrible in the extreme.

Just read it, too.  Irrelevant as far as my problems with the ending is concerned.  It provides an interesting insight into vent brat and his Reapers, but doesn't deal with Shepard's reaction to him and how poorly the ending was executed.  It's just another speculation about the true intentions of the Reapers and their creator.

[alberta]

2484Stryker wrote...

alberta wrote...

I read the post of his Citadel/Reaper idea - nothing we didn't already know. The citadel was the dominate figurehead and used a familiar image with Sheppard no one could miss with all those idiot dreams. I think the point the God Kid himself used was Sheppard was the first organic to stand in Reaper control central. However, that wasn't even true and Anderson was there before him - then TIM which seems a little silly if not nonsense there and then. For some yet unexplained reason TIM merely walked there from the citadel - just when you needed bizarre there it was. Moreover not even the citadel can exist without energy of some type and again no one knows how it even got its energy to power civilization for each 50,000 year cycle for the people living there. Then we have the clunky way used to either destroy etc from the most advanced AI/organic hybrids - that seemed like something back in the days of steam engines. There's no way around bad - and man this entire section was terrible in the extreme.

Just read it, too.  Irrelevant as far as my problems with the ending is concerned.  It provides an interesting insight into vent brat and his Reapers, but doesn't deal with Shepard's reaction to him and how poorly the ending was executed.  It's just another speculation about the true intentions of the Reapers and their creator.

Exactly - at the end of the day we're still left with horrible. And that can't be explained away.

[Pandaman102]

You know, back in college I had to take a critical writing course to pad my required "electives" (an oxymoron if there ever was one), so I took one on art criticism. One of my assignments was to write a ten page report critiquing five pieces of artwork from a museum near the campus. That week's display? Modern art.

Can you imagine what kind of absolute drivel I had to write to pad two pages of critique over a white canvas with a single yellow dot in the middle, with its sister piece being a yellow canvas with a white dot in the same spot?

This is the Mass Effect trilogy's ending. It's a beautiful, elegant frame made of the finesst ivory with gold-leaf highlights... encasing a blank canvas with a few dots splattered on it. You can stand there and mentally fill in the details and perceive it as a work of art equivalent to the old masters if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a blank canvas with a few dots splattered on it, framed by something that completely contrasts its lack of detail. You can get away with that with art, but let's be honest - Mass Effect is not art. It's consumer entertainment (Edit: clarification, since art can also be entertaining).

It has succeeded in entertaining a lot of people, but it has also failed to entertain many as well and for many good reasons.

Modifié par Pandaman102, 29 mars 2012 - 04:03 .

[demin8891]

I wish I could rationalize bad writing and plot holes away.

Teach me your ways, master wizard.

[Arokel]

I'm guessing you either own or wish to own a Prius OP.

[cogsandcurls]

piemanz wrote...

cogsandcurls wrote...

As somebody who picked the Green ending (WHY DID I DO THAT) I would honestly love anybody who thought the ending made sense to explain robot DNA to me. Truly.

Maybe instead of trying to work out how robot DNA works, think of the implications?

The implications are, wars still happen (since it's not like organics have any problems fighting amongst themselves, plus there's nothing to stop synthetic-organics creating new synthetic slave races) and reproduction completely fails to make sense on any level ever again.

So, lets assume for a minute that the whole robot DNA thing works, and that the green light magically knew that EDI was walking around in a human-shaped body and gave her the appropriate physiology....somehow. Like it makes her partially organic and it somehow knew to make her carbon-based, compatible with human reproductive physiology etc. (For the sake of argument, lets assume it really is Space Magic, and that if EDI had fallen for Garrus and taken a metal body in the shape of a Turian the magic space light would have known that and given her the appropriate dextro-animo based physiology etc etc). How does reproduction actually work in this brave new world? Do you have kids born with pre-integrated neural implants? Do they have to build children? How does this work on any level?

The Starchild says that everyone will be the same now and ergo united, but everyone looks exactly the same, so there are still distinct races. And the problem with the geth isn't even that they're synthetics, it that they're percieved as a lower race to some organics for an arbitrary reason that happens to be their synthetic origins. Tali outright says Legion has a soul, and he's sentient. How on earth would adding organic components to that mix magically make everyone think of everyone else as their equal? Geth having sentience, self-awareness, a soul doesn't do it for some Quarians, why should the abitrary introduction of a beating heart change their minds?

Also, I have a further problem when thinking about implications when you think about how EDI's sentience isn't defined at all by her human-shaped form. When she became an unshackled AI she was still just integrated into the Normandy. So....if she'd never started using Eva's body, would the Normandy be a big fleshy synthetic-organic hybrid now? Or would it just be her servers? What?

Sorry, I'm aware I'm hijacking the thread with a long post like this. It just makes no sense to me on ANY level and if anybody wants to explain it to me beyond "lots of speculation" then I really am all ears.

[Dridengx]

The Angry One wrote...

If an ending is so vague and nonsensical that it becomes a "make your own ending", then it has failed. Period.

The ending only fails if you can't think for yourself or use your imagination.

Modifié par Dridengx, 29 mars 2012 - 04:42 .

[MeatShieldGriff]

You've been indoctrinated. Let this be a lesson folks. If your game console or computer starts making a humming noise SHUT IT DOWN.

:-)

[Greed1914]

Dendio1 wrote...

Did Maraurder Shields leave the line? No Shields stayed there and waited for the chance to save us from the ending. Shields died for the line. Now as Zaeed would say: get back in there and show some damn respect!

Marauder Shields was holding a line before anyone knew there was a line.

[oblique9]

Leave him alone... He's happy with the ending now, and had the courage to post about it.

[MetalCargo999]

wheelierdan wrote...

so you didnt feel the need to say anything substantial but did feel the need to make a thread?

HA!  Agreed.  Let us know!!!  IF YOU HAVE ANY LOVE FOR YOUR FELLOW FANS, LET US ENJOY THE ENDING THE WAY YOU CAN!!!!

[MetalCargo999]

seriously though. Let me know. PM me if you want. I'm super nice and won't make fun of you I promise. I want to enjoy the ending. PLEASE

[MetalCargo999]

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cazlee]

cogsandcurls wrote...

As somebody who picked the Green ending (WHY DID I DO THAT) I would honestly love anybody who thought the ending made sense to explain robot DNA to me. Truly.

LOL that's what happened to me!! I just walked into the light I didn't know there was another choice.