233 réponses à ce sujet

[Tinmachine]

Just remember... horrific, deplorable violence is ok, as long as people don't use any naughty words.

[Dark83]

Creature 1 wrote...

Your reaction is rather confusing.  You pointed out that the American Indians were almost wiped out by settlers, and said that I cannot judge Germans for the Holocaust.  Yet you also say that I minimized the severity of the Holocaust.  Which is it, am I being accusing or dismissive? 

Your confusion stems from not noticing who you're talking to.

[iKral]

OnlineSucks wrote...
However, teen pregnancy is a plague and seeing sexual images DOES encourage it more.

No proof = no sense

[smelph]

"halt in the name of american squeamishness!" - chief wiggum



"senseless deplorable violence is OK as long as nobody says any naughty words!" - kyle's mom



honestly I would prefer my kids be exposed to people having sex rather than getting decapitated.

[Creature 1]

Pyromanen wrote...

Saying that the US is more diverse than Europe is a bit iffy at best. Sure, we might not have teh same racial makeup in the european population that you can find in the american population, but we have plenty of diversity.
The US as a whole is one nation, no matter how many states. Europe has a massive national diversity to pit against the racial diversity in the US.

Yes, but the diversity within each country is not very great. 

I dont want to trvialize the problems blacks face in america, and have faced in the past, but you do know that the holocaust was just the extreme end to a good 500 years or more of antisemitism in Europe? For the entire middle ages jews were not allowed to own land in most of Europe, infact, one of the reasons for the large jewish population in Poland at the time of WWII is that the polish king opened up to the jews centuries before anyone else did in Europe.

That's a good point.  Historically the Jews may win the contest of Most Chronically Oppressed Persons.   

The history of slavery is also alot longer and deeper in Europe than it ever was in north america. The word slave is itself a degenerate form of the word slav, and the slavs are the major group of people inhabiting eastern europe and russia. They were quite often enslaved, especially by the romans when they went into the balkans and then north in thier many wars of conquest.
But then again, we have had several thousands of years more to muck things up in Europe than you new worlders have. ^^

Slavery is probably almost as old as the human species, and if so the only reason it is not exactly as old as the species because when you're in a small hunter-gatherer band a single unhappy slave can do a lot of damage, but when you're in a agricultural society with a larger population you can keep slaves oppressed more easily.  

[Fluffykeith]

Dark83 wrote...

Fluffykeith wrote...

Just because its happening over a long period of time doesn't reduce the human cost...it merely stretches it out over the decades into centuries.

This is the black/white logical fallacy.
I didn't say it's acceptable, I said it's not as bad as genocide.
Unless you're saying it would be less of a crime if they just slaughtered all the Africans they could get their hands on? There wouldn't be any black people in America now, in that case.

Of course I'm not saying that. Don't be daft. In fact,thats a weird thing for you to suggest that I might be saying...
I was simply trying to point out that we shouldn't ignore or pass over the death toll and human suffering caused by slavery just because it was spread out over a much longer peroid of time. Its worth remembering that slaves were seen as basicly tools, they were pretty much forced to work until they died. It was systematic and it was institutionalised, it required society to not care about the slaves as people.

[Banana Muffin]

F-C wrote...



to me its pretty simple, but i guess some people want to blame religion and all these other things, but that has pretty much nothing to do with it in my view on things. my view is entirely based around people having successful lives.



if a teenager goes out and gets in some fights, he might even get a broken bone, but he can get patched up at the doctors and after a couple fights he knows it hurts and he learns. life moves on, he finishes high school, goes to college, and has a successful life.



if a teenager goes out sexing up every other person they meet, he thinks this is awesome and never learns until oops i got someone pregnant. now their life is effectively over, chances are he wont finish high school, he wont go to college, and he will be doomed to have bottom rung jobs or be on welfare forcing us to pay for his mistakes.



sex isnt bad, and sex shouldnt be banned, but it also shouldnt be encouraged in youths until they are old enough and experienced enough to realize how it can destroy their life and leave them on the bottom rung of life mooching off of the taxpayers to pay for their survival.



i think all these religion bashing posts and so on are pretty funny though, it seems most atheists will jump at any old chance to start screaming religion is bad even if they have to make up excuses. ever stop to wonder why these are the people who are so offended by everything?

Now I know you don't care what I say since you think I am a defender of CHILDKILLERS but anyway..



About teenage violence not being so bad, I think the parents of the victims of Colombine would beg to differ as would thousands of other parents that lost children to teenage violence across the world. I'd take may daughter getting knocked up over being killed any day.



Also I find it strange how american christians generally think violence is fine but sex is so bad. As I recall Jesus never said anything negative about sex, on the contrary he liked to hang out with prostitutes. He did however say that thing about turning your other cheek so it seems he wasn't too hot on violence.

[Creature 1]

Dark83 wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

Your reaction is rather confusing.  You pointed out that the American Indians were almost wiped out by settlers, and said that I cannot judge Germans for the Holocaust.  Yet you also say that I minimized the severity of the Holocaust.  Which is it, am I being accusing or dismissive? 

Your confusion stems from not noticing who you're talking to.

I am speaking to some faceless person on the internet going by the name of "Dark83".    If there is information that would help clarify the reason for your reactions, I can't know unless you tell me.  

[Dark83]

I think if some dude is causing pregnancies, he's more interested in that then watching sexual images.

[Dark83]

Fluffykeith wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

Fluffykeith wrote...

Just because its happening over a long period of time doesn't reduce the human cost...it merely stretches it out over the decades into centuries.

This is the black/white logical fallacy.
I didn't say it's acceptable, I said it's not as bad as genocide.
Unless you're saying it would be less of a crime if they just slaughtered all the Africans they could get their hands on? There wouldn't be any black people in America now, in that case.

Of course I'm not saying that. Don't be daft. In fact,thats a weird thing for you to suggest that I might be saying...

No, it's what you're implying that I was saying.

[montana_boy]

Psychoray wrote...

TripedWire wrote...

Personally I have no problem with either and it baffles me why some people are all 'OMG sex! gayelfsex BAN THIS FILTH!!' whilst barely batting an eyelid at the hyperviolence throughout the game.
Amidst the endless bloody beheadings, eviscerations, impalements, exploding guts and all sorts of **** flying arond theres a little bump and grind and people get ofended? by that?

I give no ****s, that is retarded.

America.

That's right, of course, how could anyone not see it... its the good old U.S. of A that is the culprit.  Any other nation is just wonderful but America... that is the problem.

Good grief!

[TheOpposite]

OnlineSucks wrote...

People don't go out and cut off heads after playing video games. (No matter what Jack Thompson wants you to believe)  However, teen pregnancy is a plague and seeing sexual images DOES encourage it more.

Bioware should have provided filters for both, you play the way you want to, they play the way they want to.

I think the violence is retarded and adds nothing to the game, I was severely disappointed that the so called "gore filter" only stops you from getting covered in blood, BIG DEAL.  They should have also added options to completely remove gore if a player wishes that.

Not interested in reading replies or arguing about this, that's my 2 cents.

If I'm following your logic, people don't go out and chop off heads after playing video games, but they do go out and screw like bunnies after seeing sex in a videogame?

As for what Bioware should or shouldn't do, they should make their product in their vision.  You as the consumer have the option of purchasing said product if you think it suits you.  They can't possibly hope to put options in for every little thing that each individual may want in/out of the game.

[Dark83]

Creature 1 wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

Your reaction is rather confusing.  You pointed out that the American Indians were almost wiped out by settlers, and said that I cannot judge Germans for the Holocaust.  Yet you also say that I minimized the severity of the Holocaust.  Which is it, am I being accusing or dismissive? 

Your confusion stems from not noticing who you're talking to.

I am speaking to some faceless person on the internet going by the name of "Dark83".    If there is information that would help clarify the reason for your reactions, I can't know unless you tell me.  

You see the highlighted, underlined statement? I said no such thing. You were talking to Tominokar and Zenon. You asked Zenon regarding his reaction to something he quoted of yours, and I suggested an answer.

The only statement I've made regarding my views is that slavery is not equal to genocide. If you must go into specifics, someone had already pointed out the threatment of Jews prior to the Holocaust. I belong to neither ethnic group, BTW.

[Creature 1]

Banana Muffin wrote...

F-C wrote...

Now I know you don't care what I say since you think I am a defender of CHILDKILLERS but anyway..

About teenage violence not being so bad, I think the parents of the victims of Colombine would beg to differ as would thousands of other parents that lost children to teenage violence across the world. I'd take may daughter getting knocked up over being killed any day.

Also I find it strange how american christians generally think violence is fine but sex is so bad. As I recall Jesus never said anything negative about sex, on the contrary he liked to hang out with prostitutes. He did however say that thing about turning your other cheek so it seems he wasn't too hot on violence.

Hello again. 

I didn't see him say that teens dying in drive-bys is just fine.  I saw him point out that violent crime does not affect as many teens as teen pregnancy does.  Most of the time violence teens are exposed to is relatively minor.  This is a good thing.  If we could decrease it further that would be better. 

More parents are worried about their kid getting [someone] pregnant than getting shot at school, and this is reasonable because the first scenario is many times more likely. 

I've explained why American society tolerates depictions of violence more than depictions of sex many times.  Unless you personally are offended and angered by the slaughter of Darkspawn depicted in the game, I'm not sure why you're annoyed more Christians are not. 

I am agnostic, by the way. 

[Pyromanen]

Creature 1 wrote...

Pyromanen wrote...

Saying that the US is more diverse than Europe is a bit iffy at best. Sure, we might not have teh same racial makeup in the european population that you can find in the american population, but we have plenty of diversity.
The US as a whole is one nation, no matter how many states. Europe has a massive national diversity to pit against the racial diversity in the US.

Yes, but the diversity within each country is not very great.  

But Europe is much more compact than the US is, if we're restricted to talking about a single country, which can have large problems on it's own, then it's only fair that you're restricted to only talking about a single state. The US consists of 50 states, which all have thier differences, as you yourself pointed out when the talk fell on american culture. So when you talk about all 50 states as one, then why cant we counter with the 50 or so states that exist in Europe, to get closer to the same amounts of people and the same areas involved?

[F-C]

Banana Muffin wrote...
Now I know you don't care what I say since you think I am a defender of CHILDKILLERS but anyway..

About teenage violence not being so bad, I think the parents of the victims of Colombine would beg to differ as would thousands of other parents that lost children to teenage violence across the world. I'd take may daughter getting knocked up over being killed any day.

Also I find it strange how american christians generally think violence is fine but sex is so bad. As I recall Jesus never said anything negative about sex, on the contrary he liked to hang out with prostitutes. He did however say that thing about turning your other cheek so it seems he wasn't too hot on violence.

citing examples of mentally unstable people as the normal is a pretty weak arguement.

you could cite examples of mentally unstable people from every walk of life and say "look this happened!" but it doesnt make your point valid, at all.

[Fluffykeith]

Dark83 wrote...

Fluffykeith wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

Fluffykeith wrote...

Just because its happening over a long period of time doesn't reduce the human cost...it merely stretches it out over the decades into centuries.

This is the black/white logical fallacy.
I didn't say it's acceptable, I said it's not as bad as genocide.
Unless you're saying it would be less of a crime if they just slaughtered all the Africans they could get their hands on? There wouldn't be any black people in America now, in that case.

Of course I'm not saying that. Don't be daft. In fact,thats a weird thing for you to suggest that I might be saying...

No, it's what you're implying that I was saying.

Well, if it came out that way, then I apologise. I wasn't attempting to imply any such thing.

On the topic...

Is there any actual evidence that shows a link between sex in video games and the rates of teenage sex/pregnancy? It would be useful to know. It anyone can link to it, it would be even better.

The thing is, I think theres more sexual imagary and sexualisation in popular media through music videos than there is in the sort of computer games you can buy in the shops. I know that makes me sound like a old fart (I'm only 32...) but the sort of sexual imagary seen in games like DA:O or Mass Effect isn't nearly as in your face as a Britney Spears video, and is generally more tastefully done

The so-called sexual content of DA:O is about the same as in "Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves" when you get down to it.

Video games seem to be getting a lot of flak, in the same way that they used to for "violence", which was the same as when movies got blamed for violent behaviour...anyone else remember "video nasties"? Its easy to fingerpoint, but its not going to solve the issue.

[Creature 1]

Pyromanen wrote...
But Europe is much more compact than the US is, if we're restricted to talking about a single country, which can have large problems on it's own, then it's only fair that you're restricted to only talking about a single state. The US consists of 50 states, which all have thier differences, as you yourself pointed out when the talk fell on american culture. So when you talk about all 50 states as one, then why cant we counter with the 50 or so states that exist in Europe, to get closer to the same amounts of people and the same areas involved?

We can talk about single states if you like.  The two major demographic groups producing high rates of teen pregnancies in the US are poor racial/ethnic minorities and poor religious conservatives.  The reasons for the high rates differ among the groups.  The state I grew up in has a lower percentage of racial minorities than some but a high percentage of poor religious conservatives, and a pretty high teen pregnancy rate.  By contrast, Vermont has very little demographic diversity (mostly white, more affluent than many states), low numbers of poor religious conservatives, and a lower teen pregnancy rate.  It could still be lowered, probably better education and access to contraceptives would help. 

Modifié par Creature 1, 02 décembre 2009 - 09:19 .

[F-C]

Fluffykeith wrote...

The thing is, I think theres more sexual imagary and sexualisation in popular media through music videos than there is in the sort of computer games you can buy in the shops. I know that makes me sound like a old fart (I'm only 32...) but the sort of sexual imagary seen in games like DA:O or Mass Effect isn't nearly as in your face as a Britney Spears video, and is generally more tastefully done

i agree and i dont really think thats a good thing either. i think its terrible the way we have children more interested in sex than having successful lives.

i personally dont want to live in a world full of welfare babies.

this discussion is mostly about the game though, and i dont think pointing to one wrong justifies another wrong.

[Creature 1]

Dark83 wrote...
You see the highlighted, underlined statement? I said no such thing. You were talking to Tominokar and Zenon. You asked Zenon regarding his reaction to something he quoted of yours, and I suggested an answer.

The only statement I've made regarding my views is that slavery is not equal to genocide. If you must go into specifics, someone had already pointed out the threatment of Jews prior to the Holocaust. I belong to neither ethnic group, BTW.

Well I guess I'll have to wait until Zenon answers to find out what he thinks. 

Modifié par Creature 1, 02 décembre 2009 - 09:22 .

[Zenon]

Ok, I admit, that the discussion -- especially the part I got most involved in -- got a bit out of hand. Actually comparing one kind of victim with another doesn't serve anyone well. I reacted to "Creature 1"'s comment, because I felt it indeed did belittle the holocaust. In Germany you can even get sued and possibly go to jail for that.



Concerning morality: It's my view, that morale is closely related to a specific cultural background. If such things are supported or accepted in one country or culture it's not my position to judge. If they do it in my country, where it is considered murder, of course the killer has to be punished according to local laws. Just to set things straight. I think this is comprehensible for everyone reading this.



About diversity of cultures: Let's agree, that we disagree and have simply different points of view and experience related to this question.



It's not my intention to insult anyone. I lived in the US about a year myself and found many things I like about America. There are also things, I see critical, but I won't go on further on this topic. Furthermore the values of the constitution are very positive and I agree with them.

[MarloMarlo]

A lot of it is context. Nobody cares if you slaughter a bunch of bad guys. And slaughtering bad guys is oftentimes what a game is all about.

Psychoray wrote...
America.

Yes, in America, we don't have things like people crying about how violent video games are to blame for violent actions. Oh no, it's the sex in video games that gets blamed for that. It's a little known fact that when police investigated the last few school shootings, they looked for Mass Effect side boob on the shooters' computers.

Opening sequence of Modern Warfare 2? Nobody said a word because there was no alien side boob.

Modifié par MarloMarlo, 02 décembre 2009 - 09:27 .

[Dark83]

Zenon wrote...

I reacted to "Creature 1"'s comment, because I felt it indeed did belittle the holocaust.

Aha! I was right!