172 réponses à ce sujet

[Dude_in_the_Room]

No spoilers

Mass Effect stuff happens about half way through though the whole thing is reflecting on the fans as a mass.


I haven't played to the ending yet, but I can't help feel that there is somewhat of an overreation to this whole thing.

Modifié par Dude_in_the_Room, 29 mars 2012 - 08:50 .

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Shameless bump.....b/c I think the "This is why we can't have nice things" term applies and should be taken into consideration.

[aberdash]

So basically the fact that people complain about bad things is why we cant have nice things? Even reaper logic makes more sense than that.

[Deflagratio]

Movie Bob didn't seem to mind the changing of Watchmen's ending. This smells of hypocrite.

[BeefoTheBold]

Don't know who Bob is or why I should give a flying rat **** about his opinion, but having listened to him, I disagree with the OP. I think Bob is an idiot.

He's wrong for a few reasons:

Bioware didn't take some giant, illustrious "risk" to come up with something that is genuinely controversial. They mailed the endings in egregiously, put out sloppy storytelling in the last few minutes of a 100+ hour game filled with plot holes and retconns, and - this is key here - blatantly told untruths about what paying customers would be getting for their money.

There's a reason why some people are so ticked off they're filing legal grievances. Publicly stated promises do not come anywhere close to matching what has actually been delivered. This is not a "risk". It is a "untruth" or "false advertising".

And more to the point, if you haven't played to the ending yet, then how do you know if it is an overreaction or not?

Shouldn't you actually have some sort of knowledge of what you're speaking of before you accuse others of having an overreaction?

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 29 mars 2012 - 09:09 .

[mybudgee]

Watchmen sucked

[Logiwonk]

Play the ending, then come back.

[magor1988x]

You know if we just stopped giving them our money they could go have their artistic integrity on the street corners of Edmonton & no one would give a crap if they screwed up the ending. The moment my money (ie one of the outcomes from my labor, my expenditure of time, energy, & my life) enters into the equation I have a lot more say in how things go. It's one thing if this was a F2P game or some such & the ME series was free for everyone to play. Sure I can invest time in it, but I'm not investing my money so how much say I have over the product is significantly lessened........ But in order to play ME (legally) I have to pay for it. And because I put my money into a product I am now a customer & I get a heck of a lot more say than when I got a product for free.

[Scalpels]

Bob is usually pretty good in his criticisms, but they tend to be along the lines of movies and comic books. Things he knows about.

I have no idea why he thought it would be a good idea to talk about a video game. To my knowledge he doesn't even play games.

[The Razman]

Wow ... a lot of that sounded familiar.

[ProdigalMaster]

While on some basic level I can sympathize with the "creative risk" argument I keep hearing (hell, at least it wasn't another nonsensical monologue about "artistic integrity"), I don't think "This is why we can't have nice things" is a very fair assessment. Please notice that in the modern game industry loyal fans of more franchises than I would care to count have been facing the issue of products of increasingly questionable quality/direction, despite their desire to like what they are being given, due to sentiment if nothing else.

The problem is this: Many fans have been loyal, silent, and ultimately quite tolerant of the creative shifts and turns their franchises have taken. The Result? We're not being given nice things in the first place. So what difference does it make?

[Dude_in_the_Room]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Don't know who Bob is or why I should give a flying rat **** about his opinion, but having listened to him, I disagree with the OP. I think Bob is an idiot.

He's wrong for a few reasons:

Bioware didn't take some giant, illustrious "risk" to come up with something that is genuinely controversial. They mailed the endings in egregiously, put out sloppy storytelling in the last few minutes of a 100+ hour game filled with plot holes and retconns, and - this is key here - blatantly told untruths about what paying customers would be getting for their money.

There's a reason why some people are so ticked off they're filing legal grievances. Publicly stated promises do not come anywhere close to matching what has actually been delivered. This is not a "risk". It is a "untruth" or "false advertising".

And more to the point, if you haven't played to the ending yet, then how do you know if it is an overreaction or not?

Shouldn't you actually have some sort of knowledge of what you're speaking of before you accuse others of having an overreaction?

B/c I have a little common sense and death threats is way overreacting.  Filing a complaint is not as bad, but really?  Thats going to prove nothing. 

It's actually getting to the point where whenever gamers don't like something a dev or publisher has done....we HAVE to take serious action to get heard.  Why?  Not b/c thats what it's suppose to take, but b/c our reactions are growing and growing and growing into these sorts of things where we HAVE to seriously overreact.

In other words, we made it so bad that everytime something we disagree with come around and we say "boycott!" it means nothing and now it has to come to death threats and frivilous legal battles to get our point across.

[Il Divo]

mybudgee wrote...

Watchmen sucked

Best graphic novel ever.

[Louis deGuerre]

Art defense is nonsense.
We were on repeated occasions promised things that the game would deliver
These were not delivered.
Game is a great dishwasher...but i ordered a fridge.
Art has nothing to do with this but is a nice shield to hide behind as it makes consumers who complain look like bookburning evil barbarians who like tolitarian military regimes.

Modifié par Louis deGuerre, 29 mars 2012 - 09:41 .

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Louis deGuerre wrote...

Art defense is nonsense.
We were on repeated occasions promised things that the game would deliver
These were not delivered.
Game is a great dishwasher...but i ordered a fridge.
Art has nothing to do with this but is a nice shield to hide behind as it makes consumers who complain look like bookburning evil barbarians who like tolitarian military regimes.

The "All we are doing is complaing" defense is nonesense as well.  You know good and well thats not the point and that theres a line that was jumped across let alone stepped.

[BeefoTheBold]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Don't know who Bob is or why I should give a flying rat **** about his opinion, but having listened to him, I disagree with the OP. I think Bob is an idiot.

He's wrong for a few reasons:

Bioware didn't take some giant, illustrious "risk" to come up with something that is genuinely controversial. They mailed the endings in egregiously, put out sloppy storytelling in the last few minutes of a 100+ hour game filled with plot holes and retconns, and - this is key here - blatantly told untruths about what paying customers would be getting for their money.

There's a reason why some people are so ticked off they're filing legal grievances. Publicly stated promises do not come anywhere close to matching what has actually been delivered. This is not a "risk". It is a "untruth" or "false advertising".

And more to the point, if you haven't played to the ending yet, then how do you know if it is an overreaction or not?

Shouldn't you actually have some sort of knowledge of what you're speaking of before you accuse others of having an overreaction?

B/c I have a little common sense and death threats is way overreacting.  Filing a complaint is not as bad, but really?  Thats going to prove nothing. 

It's actually getting to the point where whenever gamers don't like something a dev or publisher has done....we HAVE to take serious action to get heard.  Why?  Not b/c thats what it's suppose to take, but b/c our reactions are growing and growing and growing into these sorts of things where we HAVE to seriously overreact.

In other words, we made it so bad that everytime something we disagree with come around and we say "boycott!" it means nothing and now it has to come to death threats and frivilous legal battles to get our point across.

Two things:

1. Don't you think it's a LITTLE premature for you to have an opinion on this given you haven't SEEN the ending? Seriously...if you hadn't read Lord of the Rings would you try and give an opinion on the ending?

2. I've been a gamer since the Atari 2600 days and I've never seen a reaction like this, and having seen the ending after the hundreds of hours of time and hundreds of DOLLARS I've invested, comparing the endings we got to what we are promised I have come to the conclusion that the reaction is FULLY JUSTIFIED.

Why do I feel I can come to that conclusion?

Because I've seen the ending. No offense, but until you've actually seen the ending, you've got no right whatsoever to be casting judgments on whether not the reaction that has resulted has merit. This is not a typical reaction, because this ending to this series is not a typical underperformance...it's a historically bad one.

I don't in any way condone death threats. But everything else? If someone wants to organize a boycott of Bioware based on the belief that they've lied to us and are guilty of false advertising that is a reasonable reaction.

[addiction21]

Il Divo wrote...

mybudgee wrote...

Watchmen sucked

Best graphic novel ever.

Then watch this http://www.escapistm...nother-Watchmen

I like MovieBoB and especially The Big Picture series. If your kneejerk reaction is to say "he is flat out wrong and a idiot" then I suggest you spend some time and go thru the rest of his videos. I agree and disagree wtih him but its always his thoughts and they are put forth well.

http://www.escapistm...Words-for-Nerds

Number 3 and 4 fits the forums but 5 stikes my as something we see too much on the internet. Especially when it comes to the Company vs Consumer.

[Louis deGuerre]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

The "All we are doing is complaing" defense is nonesense as well.  You know good and well thats not the point and that theres a line that was jumped across let alone stepped.

Sez you

When Leonardo Da Vinci painted something that was not what the client was promised they told him to come back and paint what they ordered.
It didn't matter that the first painting was a masterpiece that he worked on for years.
It wasn't what the client ordered.
You wanna get artistic, do it with someone else's money and on your own time.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Don't know who Bob is or why I should give a flying rat **** about his opinion, but having listened to him, I disagree with the OP. I think Bob is an idiot.

He's wrong for a few reasons:

Bioware didn't take some giant, illustrious "risk" to come up with something that is genuinely controversial. They mailed the endings in egregiously, put out sloppy storytelling in the last few minutes of a 100+ hour game filled with plot holes and retconns, and - this is key here - blatantly told untruths about what paying customers would be getting for their money.

There's a reason why some people are so ticked off they're filing legal grievances. Publicly stated promises do not come anywhere close to matching what has actually been delivered. This is not a "risk". It is a "untruth" or "false advertising".

And more to the point, if you haven't played to the ending yet, then how do you know if it is an overreaction or not?

Shouldn't you actually have some sort of knowledge of what you're speaking of before you accuse others of having an overreaction?

B/c I have a little common sense and death threats is way overreacting.  Filing a complaint is not as bad, but really?  Thats going to prove nothing. 

It's actually getting to the point where whenever gamers don't like something a dev or publisher has done....we HAVE to take serious action to get heard.  Why?  Not b/c thats what it's suppose to take, but b/c our reactions are growing and growing and growing into these sorts of things where we HAVE to seriously overreact.

In other words, we made it so bad that everytime something we disagree with come around and we say "boycott!" it means nothing and now it has to come to death threats and frivilous legal battles to get our point across.

Two things:

1. Don't you think it's a LITTLE premature for you to have an opinion on this given you haven't SEEN the ending? Seriously...if you hadn't read Lord of the Rings would you try and give an opinion on the ending?

2. I've been a gamer since the Atari 2600 days and I've never seen a reaction like this, and having seen the ending after the hundreds of hours of time and hundreds of DOLLARS I've invested, comparing the endings we got to what we are promised I have come to the conclusion that the reaction is FULLY JUSTIFIED.

Why do I feel I can come to that conclusion?

Because I've seen the ending. No offense, but until you've actually seen the ending, you've got no right whatsoever to be casting judgments on whether not the reaction that has resulted has merit. This is not a typical reaction, because this ending to this series is not a typical underperformance...it's a historically bad one.

I don't in any way condone death threats. But everything else? If someone wants to organize a boycott of Bioware based on the belief that they've lied to us and are guilty of false advertising that is a reasonable reaction.

Thats the thing. 

L4D2 > boycott = sold well

Activision milking COD > boycott = sold well

Oblivion was dumbed down > sorta boycott = Skyrim sells record sales

EA messed up my Bioware experience > "boycott" tons of ****ing and whining = DA2 and ME3 both sell well

If you're going to do it then DO IT.  Boycotting isn't something you throw around like a taco.  It's how you get things done.  If you knew ME2 was dumbed down or whatever AND you know what they did with DA2 WHY DID YOU BUY ME3?????

I know what you're going to say.  Theres tons of casual gamers that don't really care buying these games.  Well then maybe you are in the minority.  It's like when Skyrim came out.  The forums had lots of ppl posting about broken games.  Well.....b/c the forums is the place for that.  There were millions of ppl that didn't have any problem with there game that had no reason or just didn't want to come to the forums.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Louis deGuerre wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

The "All we are doing is complaing" defense is nonesense as well.  You know good and well thats not the point and that theres a line that was jumped across let alone stepped.

Sez you

When Leonardo Da Vinci painted something that was not what the client was promised they told him to come back and paint what they ordered.
It didn't matter that the first painting was a masterpiece that he worked on for years.
It wasn't what the client ordered.
You wanna get artistic, do it with someone else's money and on your own time.

No not sez me.  Says rules and laws.  It's against the law to threaten someone.  That line is there for a reason.  If you don't think that well then I'll wait for you picture on Mugshot.com.

[Dridengx]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Thats the thing. 

L4D2 > boycott = sold well

Activision milking COD > boycott = sold well

Oblivion was dumbed down > sorta boycott = Skyrim sells record sales

EA messed up my Bioware experience > "boycott" tons of ****ing and whining = DA2 and ME3 both sell well

If you're going to do it then DO IT.  Boycotting isn't something you throw around like a taco.  It's how you get things done.  If you knew ME2 was dumbed down or whatever AND you know what they did with DA2 WHY DID YOU BUY ME3?????

I know what you're going to say.  Theres tons of casual gamers that don't really care buying these games.  Well then maybe you are in the minority.  It's like when Skyrim came out.  The forums had lots of ppl posting about broken games.  Well.....b/c the forums is the place for that.  There were millions of ppl that didn't have any problem with there game that had no reason or just didn't want to come to the forums.

Thank you and so true. I remember all those petitions myself. funny thing is those petitions were before the launch of the game, you know how its suppose to be? lol and even then they had proof via steam and such that everyone on the petitions purchased the game and was online playing them!

Modifié par Dridengx, 29 mars 2012 - 10:01 .

[Darth Wraith]

That Bob guy called it, right on the money.

[BeefoTheBold]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Thats the thing. 

L4D2 > boycott = sold well

Activision milking COD > boycott = sold well

Oblivion was dumbed down > sorta boycott = Skyrim sells record sales

EA messed up my Bioware experience > "boycott" tons of ****ing and whining = DA2 and ME3 both sell well

If you're going to do it then DO IT.  Boycotting isn't something you throw around like a taco.  It's how you get things done.  If you knew ME2 was dumbed down or whatever AND you know what they did with DA2 WHY DID YOU BUY ME3?????

I know what you're going to say.  Theres tons of casual gamers that don't really care buying these games.  Well then maybe you are in the minority.  It's like when Skyrim came out.  The forums had lots of ppl posting about broken games.  Well.....b/c the forums is the place for that.  There were millions of ppl that didn't have any problem with there game that had no reason or just didn't want to come to the forums.

Actually, DA2 did NOT sell well. When a SEQUEL sells half as much as the original, then it is a total and complete flop. It had a bunch of preorders based on DAO, and then when people found out that it was a mailed in piece of **** that was not at all like the game they thought they were getting, word of mouth killed the sales.



As for why people bought ME3, it is because ME2 was a good game. A VERY good game. And what parts that were not good, that the game had been TOO "streamlined" and "dumbed down" and too much RPG elements had been taken out were promised by Bioware to be fixed.

That's the thing I think you, and a lot of others, miss. One of the reasons, perhaps THE BIGGEST REASON why people are ticked about the ME3 ending is that they feel that they were lied to.

Before I even bother dealing with the latest "vocal minority" BS comment, let me ask you a third time.

Do you think it is premature for you to be here, defending Bioware and their ending, when you have not even seen it?

While you're thinking about answering that, please don't make numbers up. All available evidence, from online polls to user Metacritic ratings, say that YOU are the minority. You can't, on the one hand, say that the reaction is over the top and excessive and then say it's nothing but a few people. Those are mutually exclusive concepts.

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 29 mars 2012 - 10:02 .

[Dridengx]

DA2 sold more at launch and still sold well. you can't deny that. Not to mention your graph isn't even showing PC sales.. you know.. where Bioware's fanbase originated. not to mention that's an america only graph lol nice try

Modifié par Dridengx, 29 mars 2012 - 10:04 .