172 réponses à ce sujet

[BeefoTheBold]

SalsaDMA wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Louis deGuerre wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

The "All we are doing is complaing" defense is nonesense as well.  You know good and well thats not the point and that theres a line that was jumped across let alone stepped.

Sez you

When Leonardo Da Vinci painted something that was not what the client was promised they told him to come back and paint what they ordered.
It didn't matter that the first painting was a masterpiece that he worked on for years.
It wasn't what the client ordered.
You wanna get artistic, do it with someone else's money and on your own time.

You are not a client.
You did not order anything.
You did not provide them money to develop the game.

Get over it.

Baffling logic. He bought the game. Presumably it isn't the first game in the series he bought. If he bought the first two, then he did indeed provide money for them to develop the game.

If the first two games hadn't sold well, do you really think EA would have green lighted a third? He may not be DIRECTLY giving them money, but he's definitely a client/patron.

He bought the game. He did not make a downpayment on the next game.

"If the first games hadn't sold so well"
Given your graph and reasoning of why DA2 is a "flop" then why is there a third one being made?

What do you say about the ones that pre-ordered the game then?

I would say that that the game was worth preordering. It was an excellent game for the most part, as was ME2 and ME1. When the predecessor game is exceptional, then chances are the next game will get a preorder.

For me personally, I did NOT preorder ME3. After DA2, Witch Hunt, Arrival, etc. I no longer give Bioware unconditional trust. I waited and read reviews. Amazingly, the reviews I read didn't even mention the ending.

Still, for the most part I think ME3 is a very good game. But I don't think people who are demanding an ending change are out of line because Bioware made public promises about the ending that were not fulfilled.

[AlanC9]

Am I supposed to know who Bob is? I mean, just "Bob"?

[BeefoTheBold]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

@aLucidMind and everyone else that can't read. I'm not defending the ending. Stop playing the victim.

@ BeefoTold: You are doing the same thing then. I gave you evidence of 5 other games and you're ignoring them. I gave you concrete reasons why metacritic fails when viable. Yet, you cling to those b/c it supports you argument.

No, you simply said stuff like L4D2 > Boycott.

You gave no sales sumbers. No ratings. No context. No supporting evidence.

This is a Bioware forum. I'm talking about the Bioware games.

But, for what it's worth, in a general sense I would say that this is the most organized and widespread fan protest I've ever seen in the industry. I think it is a GOOD SIGN. And if you want another game that I actually know about, I have played both Oblivion and Skyrim.

Skyrim had plenty of information before release that suggested it was reversing the trends/mistakes from Oblivion. It was a deeper, more complex, richer game. I imagine gamers watched the reviews, used this Internet thing that you're so dismissive of, and concluded that their input on what was wrong with Oblivion had been listed to and corrected.

And for the most part it was.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

AlanC9 wrote...

Am I supposed to know who Bob is? I mean, just "Bob"?

???? You don't know Bob???  Everyone knows Bob.!!!!  O.......M.......G!

He's a critic on the eMag The Escapist.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

@aLucidMind and everyone else that can't read. I'm not defending the ending. Stop playing the victim.

@ BeefoTold: You are doing the same thing then. I gave you evidence of 5 other games and you're ignoring them. I gave you concrete reasons why metacritic fails when viable. Yet, you cling to those b/c it supports you argument.

No, you simply said stuff like L4D2 > Boycott.

You gave no sales sumbers. No ratings. No context. No supporting evidence.

This is a Bioware forum. I'm talking about the Bioware games.

But, for what it's worth, in a general sense I would say that this is the most organized and widespread fan protest I've ever seen in the industry. I think it is a GOOD SIGN. And if you want another game that I actually know about, I have played both Oblivion and Skyrim.

Skyrim had plenty of information before release that suggested it was reversing the trends/mistakes from Oblivion. It was a deeper, more complex, richer game. I imagine gamers watched the reviews, used this Internet thing that you're so dismissive of, and concluded that their input on what was wrong with Oblivion had been listed to and corrected.

And for the most part it was.

L4D2 > L4D2 sales and boycott info

Skyrim > Sales

As for the rest you can look them up if you honestly think I'm lying.  I'm not going to do something for you that you should do if you're the one trying to prove me wrong.

As for Skyrim being deeper....you are wrong.  Morrowind is still deeper blah blah than Skryim.  So I don't know where you're getting that from.  Either way...to save face for what it's worth, I think Skryim is more fun than Morrowind.

[addiction21]

SalsaDMA wrote...

What do you say about the ones that pre-ordered the game then?

A bad consumer.

Edit:

If you purchase something before knowing it is something you want 100% of the way then you have taken a chance.
You have rolled the dice on spending money on something you did not know you would be happy with.

Modifié par addiction21, 29 mars 2012 - 10:58 .

[Dude_in_the_Room]

eidt: nevermind

Modifié par Dude_in_the_Room, 29 mars 2012 - 10:53 .

[addiction21]

AlanC9 wrote...

Am I supposed to know who Bob is? I mean, just "Bob"?

MovieBob from The Escapist. He does 2 videos a week. The Big Picture which is mostly random stuff and "at the movies" which is basically like Yahtzee but wioth recent movies

[AlanC9]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Am I supposed to know who Bob is? I mean, just "Bob"?

???? You don't know Bob???  Everyone knows Bob.!!!!  O.......M.......G!

He's a critic on the eMag The Escapist.

Thanks. All I could think of was the Church of the SubGenius.

[Gatt9]

So the guy whose videos are hosted by Escapist, a website that gives 10/10 to a game just because the letters EA are on the box, is joining in the "You fans are entitled and selfish!" thing?

Perhaps Escapist just realized that their site one of the first people are going to quit going to?

[What a Succulent Ass]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

@aLucidMind and everyone else that can't read. I'm not defending the ending. Stop playing the victim.

@ BeefoTold: You are doing the same thing then. I gave you evidence of 5 other games and you're ignoring them. I gave you concrete reasons why metacritic fails when viable. Yet, you cling to those b/c it supports you argument.

No, you simply said stuff like L4D2 > Boycott.

You gave no sales sumbers. No ratings. No context. No supporting evidence.

This is a Bioware forum. I'm talking about the Bioware games.

But, for what it's worth, in a general sense I would say that this is the most organized and widespread fan protest I've ever seen in the industry. I think it is a GOOD SIGN. And if you want another game that I actually know about, I have played both Oblivion and Skyrim.

Skyrim had plenty of information before release that suggested it was reversing the trends/mistakes from Oblivion. It was a deeper, more complex, richer game. I imagine gamers watched the reviews, used this Internet thing that you're so dismissive of, and concluded that their input on what was wrong with Oblivion had been listed to and corrected.

And for the most part it was.

Why are you wasting your time? He himself has admitted that he has no idea what the ending is. Any discourse with him is therefore an exercise in futility. All the misdirection about previous games and the "validity" of the Internet is just a lot of smoke and mirrors and nonsense.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Gatt9 wrote...

So the guy whose videos are hosted by Escapist, a website that gives 10/10 to a game just because the letters EA are on the box, is joining in the "You fans are entitled and selfish!" thing?

Perhaps Escapist just realized that their site one of the first people are going to quit going to?

I'd like to see where you're getting that from.....considering Yahtzee belittles every game he reviews in some way or another.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Random Jerkface wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

@aLucidMind and everyone else that can't read. I'm not defending the ending. Stop playing the victim.

@ BeefoTold: You are doing the same thing then. I gave you evidence of 5 other games and you're ignoring them. I gave you concrete reasons why metacritic fails when viable. Yet, you cling to those b/c it supports you argument.

No, you simply said stuff like L4D2 > Boycott.

You gave no sales sumbers. No ratings. No context. No supporting evidence.

This is a Bioware forum. I'm talking about the Bioware games.

But, for what it's worth, in a general sense I would say that this is the most organized and widespread fan protest I've ever seen in the industry. I think it is a GOOD SIGN. And if you want another game that I actually know about, I have played both Oblivion and Skyrim.

Skyrim had plenty of information before release that suggested it was reversing the trends/mistakes from Oblivion. It was a deeper, more complex, richer game. I imagine gamers watched the reviews, used this Internet thing that you're so dismissive of, and concluded that their input on what was wrong with Oblivion had been listed to and corrected.

And for the most part it was.

Why are you wasting your time? He himself has admitted that he has no idea what the ending is. Any discourse with him is therefore an exercise in futility. All the misdirection about previous games and the "validity" of the Internet is just a lot of smoke and mirrors and nonsense.

He himself is not defending the ending.  But repsonses like these are why I think I struck a nerve....which is good.

[BeefoTheBold]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

@aLucidMind and everyone else that can't read. I'm not defending the ending. Stop playing the victim.

@ BeefoTold: You are doing the same thing then. I gave you evidence of 5 other games and you're ignoring them. I gave you concrete reasons why metacritic fails when viable. Yet, you cling to those b/c it supports you argument.

No, you simply said stuff like L4D2 > Boycott.

You gave no sales sumbers. No ratings. No context. No supporting evidence.

This is a Bioware forum. I'm talking about the Bioware games.

But, for what it's worth, in a general sense I would say that this is the most organized and widespread fan protest I've ever seen in the industry. I think it is a GOOD SIGN. And if you want another game that I actually know about, I have played both Oblivion and Skyrim.

Skyrim had plenty of information before release that suggested it was reversing the trends/mistakes from Oblivion. It was a deeper, more complex, richer game. I imagine gamers watched the reviews, used this Internet thing that you're so dismissive of, and concluded that their input on what was wrong with Oblivion had been listed to and corrected.

And for the most part it was.

L4D2 > L4D2 sales and boycott info

Skyrim > Sales

As for the rest you can look them up if you honestly think I'm lying.  I'm not going to do something for you that you should do if you're the one trying to prove me wrong.

As for Skyrim being deeper....you are wrong.  Morrowind is still deeper blah blah than Skryim.  So I don't know where you're getting that from.  Either way...to save face for what it's worth, I think Skryim is more fun than Morrowind.

Okay, if anything, this disproves your point because it shows the boycott was EFFECTIVE.

Wiki wrote...
In response to these complaints, Valve marketer Doug Lombardi stated that the announcement of Left 4 Dead 2 at E3 should not be taken to indicate that Valve would no longer support the first game.[65][69]
He asked the community to "trust [them] a little bit," and told them
that while their team was eager to get new material to players of Left 4 Dead, they determined that a sequel would be the best option for several reasons:[33] the demand for new campaigns, enemies and weapons could not be met as a simple DLC;[33]
both Faliszek and project lead Tom Leonard found that too much of the
content relied on each other, making it very difficult to release
incremental patches in the same style as Team Fortress 2;[26][27] the development team liked the idea of rolling up the content into a sequel to be released a year after Left 4 Dead's release.[26]
Faliszek stated that Newell was skeptical of the idea when the team
brought the sequel forward, but still allowed the project to go through.[27]
In September 2009, Valve flew two of the boycott group's most prominent members to Valve, in order to playtest Left 4 Dead 2; the two felt that the sequel was well done.[70] This event, through a series of correspondences made in jest, shortly led to Valve's Gabe Newell and designer Erik Johnson flying to Australia to visit "Joe W-A", a Left 4 Dead modder.
Newell jokingly reported that Valve was "boycotting" Joe's new mod for
the game when Joe asked when he would be flown to Valve in the same
manner as the Left 4 Dead 2 boycotters, but whimsically offered
that if Joe was to pay to fly him to the country, he would take a look
at it. Joe was able to raise the required funds, $3000,
through donations through his website, though ultimately Newell paid
for the trip himself, with Joe's collected donations going to the Child's Play charity.[71][72]
On October 14, 2009, the initiators of the boycott group announced
that they had ended their boycott and were shutting down the 40,000-plus
group because Valve was retaining their promise of additional content
and fixes for Left 4 Dead, such as the recent release of the
"Crash Course" campaign. These gamers also believed that the group
itself, losing its purpose, was now being used just to bad-mouth Valve
and other players.[73]
In a video interview posted on October 29, 2009, Gabe Newell said, "for
people who joined the Boycott Group on Steam ... they're actually
pre-ordering the product at a higher rate than Left 4 Dead 1 owners who
weren't in the boycott"

In other words, the boycott didn't fail. It got the results it wanted and was discontinued as a result.

Same thing with Skyrim. The developer listened to the fanbase and made changes and that's why Skyrim sold well.

So why on earth should Bioware customers not do the same thing?

[BeefoTheBold]

Random Jerkface wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

@aLucidMind and everyone else that can't read. I'm not defending the ending. Stop playing the victim.

@ BeefoTold: You are doing the same thing then. I gave you evidence of 5 other games and you're ignoring them. I gave you concrete reasons why metacritic fails when viable. Yet, you cling to those b/c it supports you argument.

No, you simply said stuff like L4D2 > Boycott.

You gave no sales sumbers. No ratings. No context. No supporting evidence.

This is a Bioware forum. I'm talking about the Bioware games.

But, for what it's worth, in a general sense I would say that this is the most organized and widespread fan protest I've ever seen in the industry. I think it is a GOOD SIGN. And if you want another game that I actually know about, I have played both Oblivion and Skyrim.

Skyrim had plenty of information before release that suggested it was reversing the trends/mistakes from Oblivion. It was a deeper, more complex, richer game. I imagine gamers watched the reviews, used this Internet thing that you're so dismissive of, and concluded that their input on what was wrong with Oblivion had been listed to and corrected.

And for the most part it was.

Why are you wasting your time? He himself has admitted that he has no idea what the ending is. Any discourse with him is therefore an exercise in futility. All the misdirection about previous games and the "validity" of the Internet is just a lot of smoke and mirrors and nonsense.

I'm beginning to suspect you're correct. I'll let him see my last response on boycotts and see if it penetrates and if not, let the matter drop.

[Calbeb]

This is such a condescending video. If you wanted to make a point about the Retake ME movement, maybe don't edit into pictures of overweight people in superhero costumes.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

@aLucidMind and everyone else that can't read. I'm not defending the ending. Stop playing the victim.

@ BeefoTold: You are doing the same thing then. I gave you evidence of 5 other games and you're ignoring them. I gave you concrete reasons why metacritic fails when viable. Yet, you cling to those b/c it supports you argument.

No, you simply said stuff like L4D2 > Boycott.

You gave no sales sumbers. No ratings. No context. No supporting evidence.

This is a Bioware forum. I'm talking about the Bioware games.

But, for what it's worth, in a general sense I would say that this is the most organized and widespread fan protest I've ever seen in the industry. I think it is a GOOD SIGN. And if you want another game that I actually know about, I have played both Oblivion and Skyrim.

Skyrim had plenty of information before release that suggested it was reversing the trends/mistakes from Oblivion. It was a deeper, more complex, richer game. I imagine gamers watched the reviews, used this Internet thing that you're so dismissive of, and concluded that their input on what was wrong with Oblivion had been listed to and corrected.

And for the most part it was.

Why are you wasting your time? He himself has admitted that he has no idea what the ending is. Any discourse with him is therefore an exercise in futility. All the misdirection about previous games and the "validity" of the Internet is just a lot of smoke and mirrors and nonsense.

I'm beginning to suspect you're correct. I'll let him see my last response on boycotts and see if it penetrates and if not, let the matter drop.

I see....so if I argue than you'll just put your fingers in your ears.  So, in my defense I'll just say you didn't copy paste all of the wiki page...only what helped out your argument and say I was wrong and you were right.

There.....no we can go our seperate ways.  With everyone knowing you were right....happy?

[What a Succulent Ass]

Calbeb wrote...

This is such a condescending video. If you wanted to make a point about the Retake ME movement, maybe don't edit into pictures of overweight people in superhero costumes.

It's the same "gamers are fat, entitled philistines" drum the defenders have been beating since dissatisfaction began spreading. It's nothing new. Kotaku, IGN, and several other media have run the same thing multiple times. I have no opinion on the Retake movement (other than that I think it's awesome how much charity has benefited), but it's quite pathetic that all its detractors can come up with is "fans are fat, stupid, entitled, violent basement dwellers who don't know true art."

[AlienSpaceBats]

Oh this guy again.

Firstly, the ending of Mass Effect 3 wasn't a creative risk, it was a sloppy, lazy, cop-out.

There's a fine line between something that's often misunderstood and open to interpretation and something that's just BADLY DONE. (see 2001: A Space Odyssey on one end, and Mass Effect 3 on the other).

Why do all these condescending nitwits feel the need to weigh in on issues they're unfamiliar with? I'm sure if "Bob" played Mass Effect 1 & 2 from 2007 to 2011, then waited two whole years to finish a story he desperately wanted to go off with a bang, and instead ended up farting around the room like an untied deflating balloon he'd be pretty upset.

It's not about butthurt, or geek entitlement, or artistic vision. When this many people are speaking out, it's because somewhere along the line, they're dissatisfied!

[BeefoTheBold]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

@aLucidMind and everyone else that can't read. I'm not defending the ending. Stop playing the victim.

@ BeefoTold: You are doing the same thing then. I gave you evidence of 5 other games and you're ignoring them. I gave you concrete reasons why metacritic fails when viable. Yet, you cling to those b/c it supports you argument.

No, you simply said stuff like L4D2 > Boycott.

You gave no sales sumbers. No ratings. No context. No supporting evidence.

This is a Bioware forum. I'm talking about the Bioware games.

But, for what it's worth, in a general sense I would say that this is the most organized and widespread fan protest I've ever seen in the industry. I think it is a GOOD SIGN. And if you want another game that I actually know about, I have played both Oblivion and Skyrim.

Skyrim had plenty of information before release that suggested it was reversing the trends/mistakes from Oblivion. It was a deeper, more complex, richer game. I imagine gamers watched the reviews, used this Internet thing that you're so dismissive of, and concluded that their input on what was wrong with Oblivion had been listed to and corrected.

And for the most part it was.

Why are you wasting your time? He himself has admitted that he has no idea what the ending is. Any discourse with him is therefore an exercise in futility. All the misdirection about previous games and the "validity" of the Internet is just a lot of smoke and mirrors and nonsense.

I'm beginning to suspect you're correct. I'll let him see my last response on boycotts and see if it penetrates and if not, let the matter drop.

I see....so if I argue than you'll just put your fingers in your ears.  So, in my defense I'll just say you didn't copy paste all of the wiki page...only what helped out your argument and say I was wrong and you were right.

There.....no we can go our seperate ways.  With everyone knowing you were right....happy?

You're entitled to your views. Have fun with them. Bye now.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Calbeb wrote...

This is such a condescending video. If you wanted to make a point about the Retake ME movement, maybe don't edit into pictures of overweight people in superhero costumes.

It's the same "gamers are fat, entitled philistines" drum the defenders have been beating since dissatisfaction began spreading. It's nothing new. Kotaku, IGN, and several other media have run the same thing multiple times. I have no opinion on the Retake movement (other than that I think it's awesome how much charity has benefited), but it's quite pathetic that all its detractors can come up with is "fans are fat, stupid, entitled, violent basement dwellers who don't know true art."

I see you don't know what Bob looks like.  He's overweight and not the Fabio type handsome you must think he is.  He's actually one of the nerdiest ppl in regards to comics and TV and movies and somewhat games that I know of.  He's been through this with comics.

Lets stop assuming shall we.

[Tirigon]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

No spoilers

Mass Effect stuff happens about half way through though the whole thing is reflecting on the fans as a mass.


I haven't played to the ending yet, but I can't help feel that there is somewhat of an overreation to this whole thing.

Basically he says "people need to be able to take risks instead of doing what everyone will like, or we will get nothing good".

This is true.

However: Mass Effect 3 is the final of a trilogy. THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR EXPERIMENTS. Keep the "risks" to a new franchise. on the Final, give us the ending we want and finish an awesome franchise with an equally awesome ending.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

@aLucidMind and everyone else that can't read. I'm not defending the ending. Stop playing the victim.

@ BeefoTold: You are doing the same thing then. I gave you evidence of 5 other games and you're ignoring them. I gave you concrete reasons why metacritic fails when viable. Yet, you cling to those b/c it supports you argument.

No, you simply said stuff like L4D2 > Boycott.

You gave no sales sumbers. No ratings. No context. No supporting evidence.

This is a Bioware forum. I'm talking about the Bioware games.

But, for what it's worth, in a general sense I would say that this is the most organized and widespread fan protest I've ever seen in the industry. I think it is a GOOD SIGN. And if you want another game that I actually know about, I have played both Oblivion and Skyrim.

Skyrim had plenty of information before release that suggested it was reversing the trends/mistakes from Oblivion. It was a deeper, more complex, richer game. I imagine gamers watched the reviews, used this Internet thing that you're so dismissive of, and concluded that their input on what was wrong with Oblivion had been listed to and corrected.

And for the most part it was.

Why are you wasting your time? He himself has admitted that he has no idea what the ending is. Any discourse with him is therefore an exercise in futility. All the misdirection about previous games and the "validity" of the Internet is just a lot of smoke and mirrors and nonsense.

I'm beginning to suspect you're correct. I'll let him see my last response on boycotts and see if it penetrates and if not, let the matter drop.

I see....so if I argue than you'll just put your fingers in your ears.  So, in my defense I'll just say you didn't copy paste all of the wiki page...only what helped out your argument and say I was wrong and you were right.

There.....no we can go our seperate ways.  With everyone knowing you were right....happy?

You're entitled to your views. Have fun with them. Bye now.

Then I'll post my view of you having to post a huge "cool facepalm" pic so everyone thinks I'm an idiot.

Good job, sir.....good job.  Take another classy approach....I can't wait.

Modifié par Dude_in_the_Room, 29 mars 2012 - 11:22 .

[Quionic]

Guys you have to calm down, Bob obviously has some sort of mental disability that causes him to act like that.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...


I see you don't know what Bob looks like.  He's overweight and not the Fabio type handsome you must think he is.  He's actually one of the nerdiest ppl in regards to comics and TV and movies and somewhat games that I know of.  He's been through this with comics.

Lets stop assuming shall we.

...

What in the name of the emperor's gold testicles does this have to do with anything? I don't care what "Bob" looks like. Why would this be relevant to me or anyone else? I don't know if it's because you haven't played the endings yourself or you're just now following the uproar and quickly casting in your posts, but you seem unaware that Bob hasn't said a single damn thing that five other big names haven't. My point is that the detractors of the Retake movement seem UNABLE to defend their stance (or criticise) without relying on utter condescension. They neither address the analyses that dissatisfied fans have made nor make any cogent arguments (outside nebulous assertions about "art"). Instead, they choose to attack strawmen and paint Retakers as brats.

It's pathetic.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 29 mars 2012 - 11:35 .