172 réponses à ce sujet

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Rafe34 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...
Either all games are art or none are.

Bull****.

Let me explain why with another example. "Either all paintings are art, or none are."

A child's stick figure drawing is not art. A masterpiece by Da Vinci is art.

The Witcher games are based on the novels of Andrej (Last name that I'm not even going to attempt to spell) from Poland. In his novels, there is a lot of sexuality regarding Witchers, mostly because Witchers cannot carry disease and they cannot get a woman pregnant. In his universe then, it makes sense that Witchers can pretty much get whoever they want.

The game may have been overboard trying to get the point across, but it makes sense and stays faithful to the novels, in most parts. (Keep in mind I've only read the first two, since I don't read Polish and the others have not been translated into English yet.)

ME3's endings do NOT remain faithful to the series, and they don't make sense. Several points in the ending logically contradict what occurred previously. THAT is the problem.

I'm not getting into what is art and what is not....I took a art class in college and I think it's all bull****.

The things that are considerred art now a days is stupid so I think it's crap in any case. 

But I will say this.....art is like beauty.....it's in the eye of the beholder.  I don't see how you can say one thing that is the same in category is not like the other in reference to art.  One can be crap but who are you to say that it's not art.

Your definition is stupid. First you say the things that are considered art now a days is stupid, and then you give a definition that would make everything be art.

Just because I can make a ball bounce from one side of the screen to the other, and you try to keep it from going past your side of the screen, doesn't mean I made "art."

Angry Birds is not art.

My  definition is not stupid b/c I didn't give one.

But lets entertain your expertise for a second......Why is Angry Birds not art?  Please explain and lets not do the lawyer thing and drown me in a wall of text/paper work.

[Yminale]

Rafe34 wrote...

Your definition is stupid. First you say the things that are considered art now a days is stupid, and then you give a definition that would make everything be art.

In some sense that is true.  The US Supreme Court does not see a distinction between art and any form of free expression. 

Just because I can make a ball bounce from one side of the screen to the other, and you try to keep it from going past your side of the screen, doesn't mean I made "art."

There actually was a sculptor that incorporated pong at the Museum of Modern Art. 

Angry Birds is not art.

The creators may disagree with you. It's funny that every great artistic movement in human history was not recognized as art in their lifetimes. 

[tommythetomcat]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...


EA messed up my Bioware experience > "boycott" tons of ****ing and whining = DA2 and ME3 both sell well

How do you boycott a game you've already purchased?  Logic fail.  All fans can do is raise hell to show how unhappy they are with the ending that was given whatever their reason for hating it; plot holes, too grimdark, complete narritive disconnect with the 99% of the game played right before it.

[Rafe34]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Heres where I'm coming from:

This game was under the magnifying glass since day 1.  Before that you had DA2.  Ok, what a foul up, right?  Then you had ME2.  Well, they screwed that up too.  (or whichever came first you get the idea...I bought them after intial release)  THEN comes the Ashes DLC.....well now they're screwing us.

Then.....lots and lots of ppl bought ME3....ppl from these forums complaining.

What I am thinking is a lot of the ppl complaining are ppl who bought it day 1 just to complain.  If it wasn't the ending it was going to be something else.

I don't need to have played to the ending.  I'm talking about the basics.  You don't get a company to acknowledge you by continuously buying their product after you complain and complain anc complain.  It looks like you just want to complain. 

Think about this:  The majority of the talk on these forums is complaining.  What if it all didn't happen.  Bioware/EA would think nothing of it.  Then when they bring out their next game all anyone said was "Well, good luck but I'm not buying it".  And then once that game came out they barely reached enough profit to cover the cost.  I would LOVE for that to happen. 

Instead, we have what we have.

Your scenario would fix NOTHING with Mass Effect, merely the next game after the next game they brought out. 

How can we possibly know that the ending is bad without playing the game? What reason did Bioware give me not to trust that they were gonna finish the Mass Effect series as it deserved? Your logic is mind-boggling. Sure DA2 was a bit sub-par, but BW hadn't even LIED to me before. So I trusted them and I got screwed, and somehow that's MY fault?

I didn't want to spoil myself as far as ME goes, so no, I didn't go do research into the game and I didn't know about the endings. If that's what it takes to know about a game, that's bull****. That takes 2/3 of the fun away from it.

Modifié par Rafe34, 30 mars 2012 - 03:27 .

[Dude_in_the_Room]

tommythetomcat wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...


EA messed up my Bioware experience > "boycott" tons of ****ing and whining = DA2 and ME3 both sell well

How do you boycott a game you've already purchased?  Logic fail.  All fans can do is raise hell to show how unhappy they are with the ending that was given whatever their reason for hating it; plot holes, too grimdark, complete narritive disconnect with the 99% of the game played right before it.

I probably meant to type "ME2" and not "ME3".  But the logic was that ppl were screaming that about Bioware way before ME3 came out.  But ME3 even fits. 

Lets try to use a little logic yourself shall we....unless you don't know the history and just want to cause trouble.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Rafe34 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Heres where I'm coming from:

This game was under the magnifying glass since day 1.  Before that you had DA2.  Ok, what a foul up, right?  Then you had ME2.  Well, they screwed that up too.  (or whichever came first you get the idea...I bought them after intial release)  THEN comes the Ashes DLC.....well now they're screwing us.

Then.....lots and lots of ppl bought ME3....ppl from these forums complaining.

What I am thinking is a lot of the ppl complaining are ppl who bought it day 1 just to complain.  If it wasn't the ending it was going to be something else.

I don't need to have played to the ending.  I'm talking about the basics.  You don't get a company to acknowledge you by continuously buying their product after you complain and complain anc complain.  It looks like you just want to complain. 

Think about this:  The majority of the talk on these forums is complaining.  What if it all didn't happen.  Bioware/EA would think nothing of it.  Then when they bring out their next game all anyone said was "Well, good luck but I'm not buying it".  And then once that game came out they barely reached enough profit to cover the cost.  I would LOVE for that to happen. 

Instead, we have what we have.

Your scenario would fix NOTHING with Mass Effect, merely the next game after the next game they brought out. 

How can we possibly know that the ending is bad without playing the game? What reason did Bioware give me not to trust that they were gonna finish the Mass Effect series as it deserved? Your logic is mind-boggling. Sure DA2 was a bit sub-par, but BW hadn't even LIED to me before. So I trusted them and I got screwed, and somehow that's MY fault?

I didn't want to spoil myself as far as ME goes, so no, I didn't go do research into the game and I didn't know about the endings. If that's what it takes to know about a game, that's bull****. That takes 2/3 of the fun away from it.

Fine then.  Buy the next Bioware game and have fun complaining. 

[Rafe34]

Yminale wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Your definition is stupid. First you say the things that are considered art now a days is stupid, and then you give a definition that would make everything be art.

In some sense that is true.  The US Supreme Court does not see a distinction between art and any form of free expression. 

Just because I can make a ball bounce from one side of the screen to the other, and you try to keep it from going past your side of the screen, doesn't mean I made "art."

There actually was a sculptor that incorporated pong at the Museum of Modern Art. 

Angry Birds is not art.

The creators may disagree with you. It's funny that every great artistic movement in human history was not recognized as art in their lifetimes. 

1. The US Supreme Court does not define art. It only defined it that way for political purposes.
2. Incorporating one of the first video games into a sculpture? Art. Creating that video game? Not art.
3. The creators can think what they want. It's not art. It's fun as hell, sure. Not art.

[TheProfessor234]

I just wish people would stop trying to "convert," others by now. The endings happened, people have picked their sides, there is no point in fighting.

Hell, I don't even see why people care about a movie critic's opinion of a video game. At least when people got upset towards Yahtzee is made sense.

Guessing he did it just for the website traffic and so he could finally say, "I'm a better fanboy than you." Though, it looks like this thread isn't even about him anymore.

[tommythetomcat]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

tommythetomcat wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...


EA messed up my Bioware experience > "boycott" tons of ****ing and whining = DA2 and ME3 both sell well

How do you boycott a game you've already purchased?  Logic fail.  All fans can do is raise hell to show how unhappy they are with the ending that was given whatever their reason for hating it; plot holes, too grimdark, complete narritive disconnect with the 99% of the game played right before it.

I probably meant to type "ME2" and not "ME3".  But the logic was that ppl were screaming that about Bioware way before ME3 came out.  But ME3 even fits. 

Lets try to use a little logic yourself shall we....unless you don't know the history and just want to cause trouble.

ME2 makes more sense in the context but how would I know that's what you "meant" to say.

I'm no mind reader.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

I hate to look like an instigator Rafe, but why is Angry Birds not art? If you're going to say I'm flat out wrong....you should at least tell me why,

Modifié par Dude_in_the_Room, 30 mars 2012 - 03:36 .

[Dude_in_the_Room]

tommythetomcat wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

tommythetomcat wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...


EA messed up my Bioware experience > "boycott" tons of ****ing and whining = DA2 and ME3 both sell well

How do you boycott a game you've already purchased?  Logic fail.  All fans can do is raise hell to show how unhappy they are with the ending that was given whatever their reason for hating it; plot holes, too grimdark, complete narritive disconnect with the 99% of the game played right before it.

I probably meant to type "ME2" and not "ME3".  But the logic was that ppl were screaming that about Bioware way before ME3 came out.  But ME3 even fits. 

Lets try to use a little logic yourself shall we....unless you don't know the history and just want to cause trouble.

ME2 makes more sense in the context but how would I know that's what you "meant" to say.

I'm no mind reader.

Getting slammed by quite a few ppl...reacting with conviction seems justifiable atm....but it's not.  My apologies.

[NKKKK]

MASS EFFECT FANS ARE ENTITLED GAMERS BAW W W W W W W

I love these arguments

[Yminale]

tommythetomcat wrote...

How do you boycott a game you've already purchased?

You don't buy their next game.  I absolutely refuse to buy any games from Square Enix after the debacle that was FFXIII.  I normally don't buy EA games (Mass Effect is an exception since I wan to finish of the series) because the quality is so bad. 

Logic fail.  All fans can do is raise hell to show how unhappy they are with the ending that was given whatever their reason for hating it; plot holes, too grimdark, complete narritive disconnect with the 99% of the game played right before it.

And that's fine but bringing the Federal Trade Commision involved because you disagree with the ending. That's nerd age off the deep end.  The FTC is overworked and underfunded and they need to go after real criminals.  Honestly when fans overreact, people lose respect and when you lose respect, you lose your ability to influence people.  That was Bob's point.   Honestly the fault lies in all you people for setting your expectations so high.  ME3 is exactly what I expected from Bioware, a somewhat decent game to end a better than average series.

[Yminale]

Rafe34 wrote...
1. The US Supreme Court does not define art. It only defined it that way for political purposes.
2. Incorporating one of the first video games into a sculpture? Art. Creating that video game? Not art.
3. The creators can think what they want. It's not art. It's fun as hell, sure. Not art.

You are completely missing the point.  No one defines art. Not me and certainly not you.  If Bioware wants to call ME3 art, all the power to them.  If you disagree, that's fine too but that's your opinion not a moral case.

[tommythetomcat]

Yminale wrote...

tommythetomcat wrote...

How do you boycott a game you've already purchased?

You don't buy their next game.  I absolutely refuse to buy any games from Square Enix after the debacle that was FFXIII.  I normally don't buy EA games (Mass Effect is an exception since I wan to finish of the series) because the quality is so bad. 

Logic fail.  All fans can do is raise hell to show how unhappy they are with the ending that was given whatever their reason for hating it; plot holes, too grimdark, complete narritive disconnect with the 99% of the game played right before it.

And that's fine but bringing the Federal Trade Commision involved because you disagree with the ending. That's nerd age off the deep end.  The FTC is overworked and underfunded and they need to go after real criminals.  Honestly when fans overreact, people lose respect and when you lose respect, you lose your ability to influence people.  That was Bob's point.   Honestly the fault lies in all you people for setting your expectations so high.  ME3 is exactly what I expected from Bioware, a somewhat decent game to end a better than average series.

Look I get where you are coming from but one person does not constitute the many hundreds of thousands of BioWare fans that don't do pointless ****.  There are trolls and idiots everywhere, what exactly can people do to stop them from making everyone look bad?

Modifié par tommythetomcat, 30 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[Rafe34]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Fine then.  Buy the next Bioware game and have fun complaining. 

You've obviously read nothing I've wrote. So no need to continue this conversation.

[FJVP]

Who is this Bob and why should I care about what he says?

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Rafe34 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Fine then.  Buy the next Bioware game and have fun complaining. 

You've obviously read nothing I've wrote. So no need to continue this conversation.

Well, to be fair.  Even if I did what you said, I was done when you completely ignored a main part of our conversation....so I don't see how it matters.

[Yminale]

tommythetomcat wrote...
Look I get where you are coming from but one person does not constitute the many hundreds of thousands of BioWare fans that don't do pointless ****.  There are trolls and idiots everywhere, what exactly can people do to stop them from making everyone look bad?

Don't encourage them and certainly don't support their line of reasoning.   Believe me, when I was part of the anti-war movement (something a billion times more serious than a bad ending) we dealt with the same crap.  The whole point is to isolate the trolls and show people that they don't represent you.   When I go throug the forums I don't see this.  I see open support for the worst of the hesterics.  Bioware is not evil. Bioware did not rip you off. Bioware did not rape your childhood.   Bioware produced a product that you were not completely satisfied with but hey that's a risk you should knowingly understood.  Bioware understands this as well since they jeopordize any future buisness with you if they don't satisfy you.  So all you can do at this point is state your peace (in an adult manner if possible) and then move on. 

[AkeasharK]

Il Divo wrote...

mybudgee wrote...

Watchmen sucked

Best graphic novel ever.

The movie was amazing as well. The ending made a lot more sense than the graphic novel's.

[Chaoswind]

Games are not art, they are entertainment, I know developers want to think their games are art, but they aren't, they are a product no different than monopoly.

We could argue that Video Games are similar to movies, but thats the catch, movies aren't art either, they are entertainment, the definition of art has been forced to encompass almost everything because everyone wants to be called an artist, in history only geniuses could be called renowned artists, now the term has been cheapened to the point that Snooky is called an artist.

Why do you think Art critics are seem as ****s? is because the common piece of person wants to say anything is art, when that is far from the truth.

[DJBare]

Yminale wrote...
You are completely missing the point.  No one defines art. Not me and certainly not you.  If Bioware wants to call ME3 art, all the power to them.  If you disagree, that's fine too but that's your opinion not a moral case.

The viewer decides whether it's art not the artist, as an extreme example many see the mona lisa as art, when in fact the real importance is the artists behind it, what's hanging on that wall is just a painting, the public decides it's art.

[Chaoswind]

DJBare wrote...

Yminale wrote...
You are completely missing the point.  No one defines art. Not me and certainly not you.  If Bioware wants to call ME3 art, all the power to them.  If you disagree, that's fine too but that's your opinion not a moral case.

The viewer decides whether it's art not the artist, as an extreme example many see the mona lisa as art, when in fact the real importance is the artists behind it, what's hanging on that wall is just a painting, the public decides it's art.

Art is a combination of things, one of the most important being the Rarity of the piece, Games are not art, because they are not rare

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Chaoswind wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Yminale wrote...
You are completely missing the point.  No one defines art. Not me and certainly not you.  If Bioware wants to call ME3 art, all the power to them.  If you disagree, that's fine too but that's your opinion not a moral case.

The viewer decides whether it's art not the artist, as an extreme example many see the mona lisa as art, when in fact the real importance is the artists behind it, what's hanging on that wall is just a painting, the public decides it's art.

Art is a combination of things, one of the most important being the Rarity of the piece, Games are not art, because they are not rare

Neither are paintings.

[DJBare]

Chaoswind wrote...
Art is a combination of things, one of the most important being the Rarity of the piece, Games are not art, because they are not rare

If you generalize then yes, but just how many Mass Effect games have you seen?, remember we are also talking about the story.