395 réponses à ce sujet

[kbct]

alex13abc wrote...

Funny thing is, I made a thread just like yours a few hours into the game. People were starting to rage on the forums about the endings and I didn't take them seriously. Then I finished the game. After that I started playing a great game called Hold the line. I'm not done with it though but I sure hope it ends better than ME3.

classic.

[Getorex]

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

No you misunderstand.  I use the word "reason" in its direct meaning.  You know, "If A = B and B = C, then A = C"  THAT sort of reason and logic.  That sort of reason is TOTALLY lacking in the ending, and thus, reason CANNOT come into it.  See?  I'm not talking about subjective stuff like, "I liked the color I chose" or "I like dark for dark's sake" or "It reminds me of a cool dream I had once when I was both drunk AND high-fevered!"  Sure, those are "reasons" for you to like it but they are not reason-able.  They do not have within them A=B, B=C, thus A=C logic (at all).  Get the diff?

Not really understanding your post past the potential condescension.

I thought the ending was reasonable. You didn't. Using meaningless equations to illustrate the transitive property is all well and good, but I don't quite see how that furthers your claim that the ending is necessarily illogical aside from a purely opnionated standpoint.

It is self evident that it is not.  Just as Creationism is NOT reasonable on its face.  Yes, there are those that, despite clearly showing them incontrovertible evidence to the contrary (and mountains of it) they STILL cling to what amounts to "unreason".  Even to the point of anti-reason.  Those people are beyond reaching.  Psychologist have studied this.  There are those so deeply invested in their beliefs (political, religious, anime, whatever) that even with mountains of absolute undeniable proof against that/those beliefs doesn't actually get them to change their minds or actually even consider the evidence at all.  Quite the contrary, the more proof you provide, the deeper they dig in.  

Some are totally immune to reason, logic, math, black-and-white, etc.  Immune.  Lost.

[The Razman]

Getorex wrote...

It is self evident that it is not.

So ... "it is because I said so".

Great argument there, buddy.

[Fattness132]

I think this explains the situation well enough.

[Getorex]

The Razman wrote...

Getorex wrote...

It is self evident that it is not.

So ... "it is because I said so".

Great argument there, buddy.

I literally dare you to view this entire layout of why the ending to ME3 is not an ending, is not logical, is not consistent with the story it is tacked onto.  He nails all the reasons, philosophical, technical, and literary.   I DARE you:

Modifié par Getorex, 29 mars 2012 - 06:59 .

[Getorex]

Fattness132 wrote...




I think this explains the situation well enough.

This guy knows something about a bad ending.  At least he had a small taste in Matrix 3 before jumping in the deep end with ME3.  Lucky bastard.

[Russalka]

Getorex wrote...

Some are totally immune to reason, logic, math, black-and-white, etc.  Immune.  Lost.

Bit of a fallacy. It is only the ending of a game, which clearly submits to the idea that different people put emphasis on different things. In the end, all opinions are valid.

People can like things despite the flaws, and put different weight on these flaws. Clearly, the majority here has decided that the flaws are very important, however there are plenty of those who do not give them much importance, finding joy regardless of them.

I don't like the endings, the idea behind them is another thing, even though I haven't even finished the game yet, but I loathe this condescending tone towards civil people who did like them.

Oh, and I would like Bioware to clarify or redo some things, for sure.

Modifié par Russalka, 29 mars 2012 - 07:06 .

[rudenotginger]

Yeah, I thought I was ready for anything, too. Until I saw it. And then I understood. Glad to hear you're enjoying yourself so far, though.

[Cadence of the Planes]

Some are totally immune to reason, logic, math, black-and-white, etc.  Immune.  Lost.

most of these people believe that their point of view is the only valid one

[Icemix]

Russalka wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Some are totally immune to reason, logic, math, black-and-white, etc.  Immune.  Lost.

Bit of a fallacy. It is only the ending of a game, which clearly submits to the idea that different people put emphasis on different things. In the end, all opinions are valid.

People can like things despite the flaws, and put different weight on these flaws. Clearly, the majority here has decided that the flaws are very important, however there are plenty of those who do not give them much importance, finding joy regardless of them.

I don't like the endings, the idea behind them is another thing, even though I haven't even finished the game yet, but I loathe this condescending tone towards civil people who did like them.

Oh, and I would like Bioware to clarify or redo some things, for sure.

Wait, what?

[Zanath]

HermanGunther wrote...

QUITE!!!! NO ONE TELL HIM!!!! let him get all the way to the end before his hopes and dreams are smashed!!!!

He's the kind of guy who drool on DA2. He's probably also going to like the endings. No need to protect him from his bad tastes.

[Getorex]

Russalka wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Some are totally immune to reason, logic, math, black-and-white, etc.  Immune.  Lost.

Bit of a fallacy. It is only the ending of a game, which clearly submits to the idea that different people put emphasis on different things. In the end, all opinions are valid.

People can like things despite the flaws, and put different weight on these flaws. Clearly, the majority here has decided that the flaws are very important, however there are plenty of those who do not give them much importance, finding joy regardless of them.

I don't like the endings, the idea behind them is another thing, even though I haven't even finished the game yet, but I loathe this condescending tone towards civil people who did like them.

Oh, and I would like Bioware to clarify or redo some things, for sure.

Ah...yes, there is a difference between those who don't care about the ending (and by extension the story) but like the game (gameplay) and those who actually LIKE the ending and claim it is in tune with the story, is logically consistent with the story, etc.  They say 99% of the game was great so the last little 1% is irrelevant.  Different worlds.  I don't get that (and it is NOT the basis of a movie so they - Bioware - better totally discard any plans for a movie if they plan to stick with what they got.  We are talking a Ewe Bolls movie series here with this ending) but I do recognize it exists and all.

Sure,  I don't GET people who will play an entire series and basically not give a damn for the story in it.  There are games for that - they tend to be shooters (Doom, Doom II, Doom III, CoD, MoH, etc,etc....I like those myself as they have their place).  Who cares if Doom makes NO damn sense whatsoever?  It's just a fun and somewhat scary (as in startling) game.  No worries about the fate of any characters, including your own (except that you cannot finish the game dead...).  Logic-smogic (Doom) or story-smory (CoD, MoH - the story is being told to you and you are riding along in fairly realistic depiction...but it is still fairly passive and linear).  

Then there's games like ME1, 2, 3 where the story is the thing and the shooting a fun addition.  Different beast.  Sure, you can play it and not give a big squating dump about the story, etc, but it's just me that I don't get that.  Why play that kind of game if you don't give a f*ck?  There's others to choose from that don't care that you don't care about the "story" of the game.  So, yeah, this aspect is an opinion/style thing. 

Different from arguing that the patently illogical IS logical.  The former I can disagree with and not really understand personally but the latter...WTF?  Do we live in the same universe with the same rules of logic?  Do we not have the same rules of narrative?  Impossible to understand that on that level of argument.  If, on the other hand, you simply state "I don't care about the logic, coherence, consistency, etc.  I simply emotionally liked it IN SPITE of all that."  I can understand that on a gut level but it is never understandable on a reason/logic basis because it is NOT based on logic or reason.  It is based on some personal emotive thing that no one can "get" except the person emoting.

Modifié par Getorex, 29 mars 2012 - 07:22 .

[The Razman]

Getorex wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Getorex wrote...

It is self evident that it is not.

So ... "it is because I said so".

Great argument there, buddy.

I literally dare you to view this entire layout of why the ending to ME3 is not an ending, is not logical, is not consistent with the story it is tacked onto.  He nails all the reasons, philosophical, technical, and literary.   I DARE you:

I've tried watching that video before. I never make it past his attempt at defining "genre".

Seriously, I went to university to study exactly this, I've written long, detailed, fully researched and cited essays on the subject of what genre is and what defines it ... and this absolute prat comes in, makes a couple of nonsensical statements about Star Trek, and says "Yeah, the sci-fi genre is basically talky and techy like, that's basically what it is, technobabble ... so you need technobabble to make sci-fi work, yeah?" and everyone in the Retake movement who says "OMG THAT IS SO TRUE!" and tells me I must watch this video.

Only three words to describe that vid, really. What. A. Tool.

[fwc577]

I call BS troll.

You started this thread 4 hours ago, and explained to us that you're only an hour into the game.

http://social.biowar.../index/10055833

You created the above thread 13 days ago where you talked about importing a character into ME3 to inform us that you had no problems doing so.

http://social.biowar.../index/10320915

You created this thread 9 days ago talking about putting in your copy of ME3 the other day.

Why should we believe you have only begun this game now, two weeks later?

Stop trolling.

You created this tread

[RACDB]

Fedi.St wrote...

MY FRIEND LISTEN TO ME CAREFULLY. THERE'S GOING TO BE A PERSON NAMED MARAUDER SHIELDS . HE IS GOING TO TRY TO SAVE YOU FROM SOMETHING. JUST LET HIM KILL YOU . NO SPOILERS HERE JUST A FRIENDLY ADVICE. I'M BEGGING YOU TO LISTEN TO MARAUDER SHIELDS.

MS is part of the problem. Not the solution.

[Icemix]

Zanath wrote...

HermanGunther wrote...

QUITE!!!! NO ONE TELL HIM!!!! let him get all the way to the end before his hopes and dreams are smashed!!!!

He's the kind of guy who drool on DA2. He's probably also going to like the endings. No need to protect him from his bad tastes.

Hey, I enjoyed DA 2 and I almost smashed my keyboard after the credits of ME 3. 

[Icemix]

The Razman wrote...

Getorex wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Getorex wrote...

It is self evident that it is not.

So ... "it is because I said so".

Great argument there, buddy.

I literally dare you to view this entire layout of why the ending to ME3 is not an ending, is not logical, is not consistent with the story it is tacked onto.  He nails all the reasons, philosophical, technical, and literary.   I DARE you:

I've tried watching that video before. I never make it past his attempt at defining "genre".

Seriously, I went to university to study exactly this, I've written long, detailed, fully researched and cited essays on the subject of what genre is and what defines it ... and this absolute prat comes in, makes a couple of nonsensical statements about Star Trek, and says "Yeah, the sci-fi genre is basically talky and techy like, that's basically what it is, technobabble ... so you need technobabble to make sci-fi work, yeah?" and everyone in the Retake movement who says "OMG THAT IS SO TRUE!" and tells me I must watch this video.

Only three words to describe that vid, really. What. A. Tool.

Try harder, the guy makes good points.

[Getorex]

The Razman wrote...

Getorex wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Getorex wrote...

It is self evident that it is not.

So ... "it is because I said so".

Great argument there, buddy.

I literally dare you to view this entire layout of why the ending to ME3 is not an ending, is not logical, is not consistent with the story it is tacked onto.  He nails all the reasons, philosophical, technical, and literary.   I DARE you:

I've tried watching that video before. I never make it past his attempt at defining "genre".

Seriously, I went to university to study exactly this, I've written long, detailed, fully researched and cited essays on the subject of what genre is and what defines it ... and this absolute prat comes in, makes a couple of nonsensical statements about Star Trek, and says "Yeah, the sci-fi genre is basically talky and techy like, that's basically what it is, technobabble ... so you need technobabble to make sci-fi work, yeah?" and everyone in the Retake movement who says "OMG THAT IS SO TRUE!" and tells me I must watch this video.

Only three words to describe that vid, really. What. A. Tool.

You REALLY have to get past that part.  

I also do NOT believe you "studied" this stuff at all.  Maybe you took it as an elective and passed but study?  Nah.

A teacher or professor would FLUNK the person who wrote the ME story that ended the way it did.  That is an F on the college level because it really ends without an ending.  It is NOT an ending to any story.  It is a superhighway that suddenly ends as railroad tracks that themselves come to an abrupt end after a single run.  Makes NO sense and doesn't go together.  

[Getorex]

RACDB wrote...

Fedi.St wrote...

MY FRIEND LISTEN TO ME CAREFULLY. THERE'S GOING TO BE A PERSON NAMED MARAUDER SHIELDS . HE IS GOING TO TRY TO SAVE YOU FROM SOMETHING. JUST LET HIM KILL YOU . NO SPOILERS HERE JUST A FRIENDLY ADVICE. I'M BEGGING YOU TO LISTEN TO MARAUDER SHIELDS.

MS is part of the problem. Not the solution.

Oh sir!  You MUST explain yourself!  That borders on BLASPHEMY! 

[The Razman]

Icemix wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Getorex wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Getorex wrote...

It is self evident that it is not.

So ... "it is because I said so".

Great argument there, buddy.

I literally dare you to view this entire layout of why the ending to ME3 is not an ending, is not logical, is not consistent with the story it is tacked onto.  He nails all the reasons, philosophical, technical, and literary.   I DARE you:

I've tried watching that video before. I never make it past his attempt at defining "genre".

Seriously, I went to university to study exactly this, I've written long, detailed, fully researched and cited essays on the subject of what genre is and what defines it ... and this absolute prat comes in, makes a couple of nonsensical statements about Star Trek, and says "Yeah, the sci-fi genre is basically talky and techy like, that's basically what it is, technobabble ... so you need technobabble to make sci-fi work, yeah?" and everyone in the Retake movement who says "OMG THAT IS SO TRUE!" and tells me I must watch this video.

Only three words to describe that vid, really. What. A. Tool.

Try harder, the guy makes good points.

He epicly failed so badly on genre that I'm not sure why to believe that? I got as far as "Quarians depend on synthetics, does that mean destroy kills them? We don't get told so that's an error" ... before thinking "Quarians aren't synthetic life, for god's sake". Serious Steven the Vegan complex.

[Getorex]

The Razman wrote...

Icemix wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Getorex wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Getorex wrote...

It is self evident that it is not.

So ... "it is because I said so".

Great argument there, buddy.

I literally dare you to view this entire layout of why the ending to ME3 is not an ending, is not logical, is not consistent with the story it is tacked onto.  He nails all the reasons, philosophical, technical, and literary.   I DARE you:

I've tried watching that video before. I never make it past his attempt at defining "genre".

Seriously, I went to university to study exactly this, I've written long, detailed, fully researched and cited essays on the subject of what genre is and what defines it ... and this absolute prat comes in, makes a couple of nonsensical statements about Star Trek, and says "Yeah, the sci-fi genre is basically talky and techy like, that's basically what it is, technobabble ... so you need technobabble to make sci-fi work, yeah?" and everyone in the Retake movement who says "OMG THAT IS SO TRUE!" and tells me I must watch this video.

Only three words to describe that vid, really. What. A. Tool.

Try harder, the guy makes good points.

He epicly failed so badly on genre that I'm not sure why to believe that? I got as far as "Quarians depend on synthetics, does that mean destroy kills them? We don't get told so that's an error" ... before thinking "Quarians aren't synthetic life, for god's sake". Serious Steven the Vegan complex.

They ARE as synthetic as Shepard is, as anyone is with various synthetic implants.  Besides, the entire idea of killing synthetics as a class is full retard.  My PC is synthetic.  Basic computing systems on any star ship in the game is synthetic.  Anyone with advanced prosthetics are "synthetic" if Shepard falls in that category.  

Keep going...you can't tolerate the argument merely because you think the ending actually makes any logical sense and cannot tolerate a clear, lucid explanation as to why it is not.

[The Razman]

Getorex wrote...

You REALLY have to get past that part.  

I also do NOT believe you "studied" this stuff at all.  Maybe you took it as an elective and passed but study?  Nah.

A teacher or professor would FLUNK the person who wrote the ME story that ended the way it did.  That is an F on the college level because it really ends without an ending.  It is NOT an ending to any story.  It is a superhighway that suddenly ends as railroad tracks that themselves come to an abrupt end after a single run.  Makes NO sense and doesn't go together.  

Entire core module in second year on Genre in Television and Film, thanks. Probably why I find his nonsensical attempt at defining genre so insulting, but there you go.

Anyway, read and respond to this and I'll consider your video in full. A bit of two-way traffic for a change.

[Russalka]

Getorex wrote...

*snip*

I do not disagree that the endings lack in logic. But warrant condescension it does not. Perhaps Bioware would be more forthcoming if there wasn't so much hostility, hidden or obvious, in the forums.

Icemix wrote...

Wait, what?

I've read the leaks, the descriptions and the arguments. I thought it would be a welcome sight to dislike the endings even before experiencing them directly, seeing what is going on in various threads.

[luchozuca]

Kudos OP, now please come back here once you finished the game and tell us what you think. Because i felt as you did when i started my first playthrough... but i stopped feeling like that after killing Marauder Shields.

[xkg]

 

Modifié par xkg, 29 mars 2012 - 09:51 .