213 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

"This, recruits, is a 20-kilo Ferrous slug. Feel the weight! Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class dreadnaught accelerates one to one-point-eight percent of light speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kiloton bomb."

According to the Codex, four Dreadnaughts equipped as such are a match for a single Sovereign-class Reaper. Our supposed disadvantage is in that they have more heavy hitters than we do, but consider this:

A standard UT-47 Kodiak drop shuttle is equipped for faster-than-light travel, and weighs considerably more than twenty kilos. Properly directed, it would pack a bigger punch by far than any mass accelerator round.

A frigate or cruiser weighs even more than that. Each is equipped with standard FTL. Each would likely be able to carve a Klendagon trench on any planet you pointed it at.

Abandon ship. VI autopilot. Problem solved. Just be careful not to aim at the planet behind that reaper.

Sir Isaac Newton is still the deadliest son-of-a-**** in space.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 29 mars 2012 - 03:32 .

[redplague]

A reaper vessel destroys those ships in one shot.

[DeinonSlayer]

redplague wrote...

A reaper vessel destroys those ships in one shot.

Not when that ship is crashing into them at FTL speeds, they don't. Even chunks of debris from a shattered wreck of a vessel impacting at those speeds would cause the same amount of damage.

[AkiKishi]

I wanted to fire Volus at them.

[Vaktathi]

redplague wrote...

A reaper vessel destroys those ships in one shot.

Toss a dozen at it. Their weapons have an oddly limited arc of fire. Let it try to shoot down a dozen unmanned shuttles moving at a high fraction of the speed of light coming in from multiple trajectories.

In all honesty, a 2kg chunk of rock moving at half lightspeed would pack enough kinetic energy to smash a reaper to dust, packing the force of a multi-megaton nuclear bomb (as opposed to multi-kiloton as suggested by the dreadnought weaponry). The shuttles would be more than sufficient.

XD


In all reality, space combat is not something *any* scifi series does well, it's pretty much always "early 20th century naval combat in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace!".

Modifié par Vaktathi, 29 mars 2012 - 03:40 .

[UnstableMongoose]

You remember that time when it took 50,000 Quarian ships to destroy a single reaper in a sustained orbital bombardment. Keep in mind, according to the codex, Reapers have weaker kinetic barriers while on the surface of a planet because they have to reduce their mass in order to maneuver or walk in a gravity well.

So it took the entire Quarian armada a couple minutes of sustained fire to destroy a weakened Reaper destroyer when there was a ground team providing accurate target-painting on the giant enemy crab's glowing weak point.

I'm going to go ahead and say that Reapers win.

ed. To address your additional point, it's stated in the codex that the Council races have indeed attempted to use ships in suicide ramming attacks, but FTL jumps can not be calculated accurately enough to ram a Reaper vessel.

Modifié par UnstableMongoose, 29 mars 2012 - 03:40 .

[Vaktathi]

UnstableMongoose wrote...

You remember that time when it took 50,000 Quarian ships to destroy a single reaper in a sustained orbital bombardment.

Not all the ships were firing at it, it took a few dozen direct hits going through the cutscene, but the kind of firepower that 50,000 ships throwing mass accelerator rounds at a target would have would be enough to crack the planteray crust in a few seconds.

[HermanGunther]

I can play this game too. If I was an ME Universe Commander I would have all the smaller less useful ships stripped of their drivecores so that they could be converted into mines. When the fleet drops out of FTL for the battle of Earth you hurl those "mines" forward thus creating a giant deadly minefield that the Reapers have to fly through. One of those things explodes with enough force to destroy a small city. Imagine hundreds of them going off at once. The Reapers would take some serious casualties before the main battle.

[DeinonSlayer]

UnstableMongoose wrote...

ed. To address your additional point, it's stated in the codex that the Council races have indeed attempted to use ships in suicide ramming attacks, but FTL jumps can not be calculated accurately enough to ram a Reaper vessel.

And yet Dreadnaughts can accurately target vessels tens of thousands of kilometers away? These are the systems they depend on not to drop them in the middle of the nearest star. If this is true, it honestly sounds like a writing cop-out to discount an obvious solution, more than anything else. At the ranges seen in the final battle, I refuse to believe that no one would be able to pull it off.

[DeinonSlayer]

corpselover wrote...

Problem is that ships in Mass Effect achieve FTL by lowering their mass with element zero.

Because if they didn't, the crew would be fried by Cherenkov radiation. Even if VI autopilot was handwaved away, we're talking about a suicide run here. Anything more than 20 kilos moving 1.8% light speed would be putting more hurt on-target than a dreadnaught.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 29 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[therussianviking]

Never mind the fact that organics have aupply lines, chains of command, "human" error, and morale to consider. Reapers have none of thoae concerns. They are machines made for killing with millions of years of experience and thousands of civilizations under their belt. Not to mention the fact that they are vastly technilogically superior, have incredibly effective psychological warfare methods, and use our own people against us. So, yea, conventional war sounds easy!

[Vaktathi]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

UnstableMongoose wrote...

ed. To address your additional point, it's stated in the codex that the Council races have indeed attempted to use ships in suicide ramming attacks, but FTL jumps can not be calculated accurately enough to ram a Reaper vessel.

And yet Dreadnaughts can accurately target vessels tens of thousands of kilometers away? These are the systems they depend on not to drop them in the middle of the nearest star. If this is true, it honestly sounds like a writing cop-out to discount an obvious solution, more than anything else. At the ranges seen in the final battle, I refuse to believe that no one would be able to pull it off.

Indeed, if nothing else, just get close (in space terms, a few hundred/few thousand kilometers) and spin the drive up a bit to say, half light speed, point it at target vessel (this should be manageable) and let loose.

[redplague]

I can play this game too. I am God and I say that any ships hurled towards Reaper ships will be destroyed as this is the only solution.

[BeefoTheBold]

The conversation that this references is one of the very best in the entire trilogy. Loved every moment of it.

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 29 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[DeinonSlayer]

therussianviking wrote...

Never mind the fact that organics have aupply lines, chains of command, "human" error, and morale to consider. Reapers have none of thoae concerns. They are machines made for killing with millions of years of experience and thousands of civilizations under their belt. Not to mention the fact that they are vastly technilogically superior, have incredibly effective psychological warfare methods, and use our own people against us. So, yea, conventional war sounds easy!

All of the considerations you're bringing up here are irrelevant. We know we can beat them. We're told the amount of firepower needed to do so, and we have a method to exceed it. This isn't about morale and supply lines: this is physics. Nothing more.

[thunderhawk862002]

I don't think it would be easy. But it would be doable if you amassed a lot of the assets and alliances. We learned the weak point, amassed the largest fleet ever known and weren't even attacking the entire reaper fleet, just the most concentrated forces.

[kalle90]

Or how about luring all Reapers to the outer unimportant clusters and then smacking an asteroid at the Mass Relays?

Really in Arrival they said Reapers are coming right there. How surprised would they have been if as they appear an asteroid flies at them.

Or how practically all Reapers were at Earth. Destroy Sol system. The end.

[OdanUrr]

The problem is that once you think of the Reapers as just advanced starships, conventional warfare rules apply. You just need numbers or better tactics.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 29 mars 2012 - 04:04 .

[Vaktathi]

A lot of this again boils down to the fact that ME, like pretty much every other major SciFi series, portrays space combat like early 20th century naval battles, because they're easy to conceptualize/visualize/portray.

A real space battle played out fully in 3 dimensions with no concept of up/down/forward/backward and ships engaging each other at distances of tens or hundreds of thousands of kilometers where distances of hundreds of kilometers would be considered "point blank" aren't very cinematic or visually appealing when stuff is so far apart you can't see anything.

[AlexMBrennan]

OK, fair enough, except for one detail: Such a strategy was never mentioned in the game - and we see turian ships ramming Sovereign in ME1, so it's obvious that they will have considered ramming at relativistic speed and rejected it for some reason. Thus it's a plot hole in ME1, rather than ME3 and conventional victory remains impossible.

[DeinonSlayer]

OdanUrr wrote...

The problem is that once you think of the Reapers as just advanced starships, conventional warfare rules apply. You just need numbers or better tactics.

Numbers we have. Tactics? They don't even try to concentrate fire on the weak spots we told them about in the existing cinematics...

[XTR3M3]

what ever happened to those bad-arse guns Garrus put on the Normandy in ME2 that tore through that huge collector ship like paper in only 2 shots? and why weren't every ship in the fleet equipped with those? that is yet another GLARING omission that says to me the people writing ME3 didn't even play 1 or 2. They must have been just given the outline and told, "this is where we are going from here".

[Eyeofanger]

I am curious would the reapers have a harder time if the alliance would mass produce ships exactly like the normandy sr2