180 réponses à ce sujet

[Achkas]

Any thread I've found people trying to discuss the ending without expressing their hatred for it has, at some point, attracted the attention of people demanding they explain their lack of hatred, expressing passive aggressive comments such as 'good for you, i respect you, but...', or implying that people who don't hate the ending are somehow limiting their right to hate the ending. I just want a thread where we can discuss the ending in peace without vitriol or having to justify ourselves It feels like mentioning the ending in a positive way is somehow attracting Reaper forces.

[Adanu]

Achkas wrote...

Any thread I've found people trying to discuss the ending without expressing their hatred for it has, at some point, attracted the attention of people demanding they explain their lack of hatred, expressing passive aggressive comments such as 'good for you, i respect you, but...', or implying that people who don't hate the ending are somehow limiting their right to hate the ending. I just want a thread where we can discuss the ending in peace without vitriol or having to justify ourselves It feels like mentioning the ending in a positive way is somehow attracting Reaper forces.

Pretty much yeah.

It's impossible to discuss the ending without attracting the ****s here.

[Njald]

Anastassia wrote...

Njald wrote...

@Dragoonlordz isn't it time you took a breather? Unless personally plan on buy all the games we prevented our friends from buying or if you personally buy all the DLC that won't be bought for our uninstalled copies I don't see any change coming out of your insessive defending of a lost cause.

The same could be said of your movement. The insults, flaming, and feet-stamping is getting very tiresome.

It wasn't directed at the enders or the discussion. Just him/her personally. I don't mind people somehow mysteriously liking the ending, I'm just sad for little Dragoonlordz having to post in every thread as to having to compensate for being one of the few liking the ending. It can't be productive or constructive to go on like that. 

It's not my movement. It's a bunch of people who have the same idea abotu the production quality about the last part of the game. Someone them are donkeyhats, some of them are wellspoken and polite, very few of them are wrong about the narrative quality of the ending.

Narratives are about communicating, they are about bringing a message or a story to someone else. If a majority of the people who have been listening very very carefully and enjoyed it very very much suddenly goes "that doesn't make sense, where the frack does that come from?" then you failed as a narrator. And more importantly, you are going to fail as a producer of product if your product was supposed to be good narration and storytelling. 

That is as far as you can come to objective analysis of narrative qualities. And since Bioware isn't a unsure budding artist I'm sure they want to keep their fanbase in stead of just you, Dragoonlordz and a handful of other active posters.

[Calbeb]

Achkas wrote...

Any thread I've found people trying to discuss the ending without expressing their hatred for it has, at some point, attracted the attention of people demanding they explain their lack of hatred, expressing passive aggressive comments such as 'good for you, i respect you, but...', or implying that people who don't hate the ending are somehow limiting their right to hate the ending. I just want a thread where we can discuss the ending in peace without vitriol or having to justify ourselves It feels like mentioning the ending in a positive way is somehow attracting Reaper forces.

I'm not a huge fan of the ending, but I think it's rediculous that somehow LIKING IT, gets you branded as a troll or an idiot. People don't like to account for taste.

[stormloader]

its comedy that some nobody insist that others explain themselves, then says "i am not explaining myself to you. you guy are all how old??!?!? this has to make sense somehow

[Annora]

Njald wrote...

It wasn't directed at the enders or the discussion. Just him/her personally. I don't mind people somehow mysteriously liking the ending, I'm just sad for little Dragoonlordz having to post in every thread as to having to compensate for being one of the few liking the ending. It can't be productive or constructive to go on like that. 

It's not my movement. It's a bunch of people who have the same idea abotu the production quality about the last part of the game. Someone them are donkeyhats, some of them are wellspoken and polite, very few of them are wrong about the narrative quality of the ending.

Narratives are about communicating, they are about bringing a message or a story to someone else. If a majority of the people who have been listening very very carefully and enjoyed it very very much suddenly goes "that doesn't make sense, where the frack does that come from?" then you failed as a narrator. And more importantly, you are going to fail as a producer of product if your product was supposed to be good narration and storytelling. 

That is as far as you can come to objective analysis of narrative qualities. And since Bioware isn't a unsure budding artist I'm sure they want to keep their fanbase in stead of just you, Dragoonlordz and a handful of other active posters.

Your signature is full of the same passive-aggressive nonsense the "Hold the Line" movement uses, so I apologize for my assumption.

Modifié par Anastassia, 29 mars 2012 - 11:04 .

[stormloader]

they tried? to brand me as a troll for loving it lololol
i did not accept the the label, therefore it didnt work
sorry, i hope this helps the triers

the people who try to brand others here, they do not know who they are, and thus feel safer and less threatened by others agreeing with them. prime candidates for robot sheeple when they eventually leave their moms house. that'll suck ...for the unsuspecting victim who would potentially be their first relationship partner

[Halfdan The Menace]

Seriously all them 3 ending was too Hollywood sci-fi it doesn't fit Mass Effect. I do not demand a new or improved ending though I wouldn’t mind it. However, I only want to see a changed ending if Bioware believes in it themselves. Otherwise, I’ll doubt it will be any improvement anyway. And sure, why not shout if that is what you want. Why should you not say anything if you don’t like it, as well as you should give positive feedback if it’s to your liking. And in a game such as Mass Effect, where you shape your own destiny, I actually think that DLC endings could work. And there has already been “fan fiction” included in Mass Effect 2, albeit mostly minor things, and it was already included in the original release. But still. Fans have already contributed to the franchise.

I gotta say, if the indoctrination theory is right then that was quite the mind fvck... literally. I’ve had enough of this ending crap. Lets all wait and see what comes in April and just enjoy what we got.

[Njald]

Anastassia wrote...

Njald wrote...

It wasn't directed at the enders or the discussion. Just him/her personally. I don't mind people somehow mysteriously liking the ending, I'm just sad for little Dragoonlordz having to post in every thread as to having to compensate for being one of the few liking the ending. It can't be productive or constructive to go on like that. 

It's not my movement. It's a bunch of people who have the same idea abotu the production quality about the last part of the game. Someone them are donkeyhats, some of them are wellspoken and polite, very few of them are wrong about the narrative quality of the ending.

Narratives are about communicating, they are about bringing a message or a story to someone else. If a majority of the people who have been listening very very carefully and enjoyed it very very much suddenly goes "that doesn't make sense, where the frack does that come from?" then you failed as a narrator. And more importantly, you are going to fail as a producer of product if your product was supposed to be good narration and storytelling. 

That is as far as you can come to objective analysis of narrative qualities. And since Bioware isn't a unsure budding artist I'm sure they want to keep their fanbase in stead of just you, Dragoonlordz and a handful of other active posters.

Your signature is full of the same passive-aggressive nonsense the "Hold the Line" movement uses, so I apologize for my assumption.

My signature is my bafflement at people accepting the quality presented as a finale for an otherwise very solid piece of art. If people care so little for a narrative then why do they bother playing a game such as this. It's to me just as baffling as people with weird fetishes or that french guy Mr Mange-e-tout who ate a whole Cessna. 
I just can't fathom the amount of mental delusion and backpeddling needed to not see this ending for what it is; A costcutting excercise, done in the last stages of development with very limited scope, effort or fidelity to the themes in the series.
Other writers inside Bioware famously agrees with me on this point. Both on the count fo endings being hard to do properly and often getting underfunded or underdeveloped, rushed and about this ending being done in a vacuum without peer review and without connecting to earlier work.
Add together the lack of visual difference due to the amount of reused footage I can't see how "quality" could be something you would attribute to the ending. 
The undlying themes are interesting in their own, but I liked them better when they were the ending of the first Deus Ex game. That's a game they could/should appear.

From a gamepoint of view I can understand someone being happy with the sudden lack of agency after 3 full games of agency on the behalf of the player. (if I'm using that word right, I am ESL after all)
Not everyone enjoy Playing games, some people seem to enjoy it more if they are Watching it. That's what a large part of the storylines in JRPGs are about. Watching epic stuff unfold infront of you. But to place it in the end of a game as player driven as Mass Effect clearly wasn't the correct choice if you were relying on repeat customers.

[Achkas]

Njald wrote...
My signature is my bafflement at people accepting the quality presented
as a finale for an otherwise very solid piece of art. If people care so
little for a narrative then why do they bother playing a game such as
this. It's to me just as baffling as people with weird fetishes or that
french guy Mr Mange-e-tout who ate a whole Cessna. 
I just can't
fathom the amount of mental delusion and backpeddling needed to not see
this ending for what it is; A costcutting excercise, done in the last
stages of development with very limited scope, effort or fidelity to the
themes in the series.
Other writers inside Bioware famously agrees
with me on this point. Both on the count fo endings being hard to do
properly and often getting underfunded or underdeveloped, rushed and
about this ending being done in a vacuum without peer review and without
connecting to earlier work.
Add together the lack of visual
difference due to the amount of reused footage I can't see how "quality"
could be something you would attribute to the ending. 
The undlying
themes are interesting in their own, but I liked them better when they
were the ending of the first Deus Ex game. That's a game they
could/should appear.

From a gamepoint of view I can understand
someone being happy with the sudden lack of agency after 3 full games of
agency on the behalf of the player. (if I'm using that word right, I am
ESL after all)
Not everyone enjoy Playing games, some people seem
to enjoy it more if they are Watching it. That's what a large part of
the storylines in JRPGs are about. Watching epic stuff unfold infront of
you. But to place it in the end of a game as player driven as Mass
Effect clearly wasn't the correct choice if you were relying on repeat
customers.

In your rush to co-opt a definition of what 'objective' good narrative is, you make a lot of assumptions that such a thing is possible. I've already said how little the lack of visual difference really means anything in my opinion; I find
their appearance in another game irrelevant to my experience of this one (commonalities in literature are very, er, common), whether it is a costcutting exercise is irrelevant, what the masses think is irrelevant.The narrative succeeded in communicating with me. If it suddenly does not make sense to other people, this suggests they were responding to it in a different way throughout the story. I do not think the ending is perfect or even excellent; I do not hate it. I want time to consider it. This is the nature of aesthetic response. I don't want to have to constantly defend my opinion. I want to just discuss what happened without a demand that what I'm discussing be altered into something totally different.

I've seen a lot of people claiming to have some special ability to decode narrative; someone the other day talked about being an English major. People who've studied narrative and English Lit (and it's not really that much to boast about in this type of discussion) will know there are many schools of thought and methods of interpretation, and that academia and the high-art end of the establishment often value ambiguity and openness. Whether others do is entirely up to them; that's the nature of academic questioning and study, to foster free thought and discussion. Not to demand artists kowtow to their response.

Modifié par Achkas, 29 mars 2012 - 11:31 .

[Quionic]

 I liked my ending 

Anderson: Commander

Shep: We did it

Anderson:  Yes, we did. It's...quite a view.

Shep: Best seats in the
house

*see Reapers blowing
up/dying due to super mega awesome weapon

Anderson: god...feels like
years since I just sat down

Shep: I think you've
earned a rest. Anderson? Stay with me. We're almost through this.

Anderson: You did good
son. You did good.

 

* view from behind of them
watching the Reapers die. Screen darkens .Credits

[stormloader]

you people must be like 500 pounds and living in your moms @55 -smelly basement
you guys are tlking about this dumb 5hit like it matters....like it changes something, or affects tea prices
please, bathe
the game ending rocked
the end
and njald is right, so get over it
but again, go on craigslist, roomates needed....make it happen

[Achkas]

stormloader wrote...

you people must be like 500 pounds and living in your moms @55 -smelly basement
you guys are tlking about this dumb 5hit like it matters....like it changes something, or affects tea prices
please, bathe
the game ending rocked
the end
and njald is right, so get over it
but again, go on craigslist, roomates needed....make it happen

why are you demanding people bathe?

[stormloader]

lololol
i am not demanding at all
ok
spank it before mom says dinner is ready? better?

[Dragoonlordz]

Njald wrote...

@Dragoonlordz isn't it time you took a breather? Unless personally plan on buy all the games we prevented our friends from buying or if you personally buy all the DLC that won't be bought for our uninstalled copies I don't see any change coming out of your insessive defending of a lost cause.

Read the bolded parts, I need not do anything at this stage even if I was to do as you suggested after the jesting about breather comment. I have no way of knowing about DLC status but I know I want to buy it and many of those who dislike the ending have said if something they hope will resolve their issues they would too (won't know content of that DLC until April though they were qute clear in all statements so far that they won't be replacing the endings just giving more exposition to bring about closure which many I spoken to are okay with while some are not).

Also worth noting is no point feeling bad or sorry for me, while many here have tested my patience one thing remains always and that is I was happy with the ending, happy is something I prefer to be and I felt I got a good product for the amount of money I spent. I would rather be happy than upset and I am in a better place than those upset by it. Something worth remembering.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 mars 2012 - 02:22 .

[The Razman]

Achkas wrote...

Any thread I've found people trying to discuss the ending without expressing their hatred for it has, at some point, attracted the attention of people demanding they explain their lack of hatred, expressing passive aggressive comments such as 'good for you, i respect you, but...', or implying that people who don't hate the ending are somehow limiting their right to hate the ending. I just want a thread where we can discuss the ending in peace without vitriol or having to justify ourselves It feels like mentioning the ending in a positive way is somehow attracting Reaper forces.

Might I suggest searching out the Support Bioware's Mass Effect group on Facebook. Only place where you can have an actual discussion about the ending without trolling, IMO.

[Rrezz]

Howard the Duck was a good movie you Dolt

[thedosbox]

Docmeff22 wrote...

...and think it is good.

Some people liked the movie Howard the Duck, too.

Lea Thompson.

U MAD?

[Docmeff22]

Rrezz wrote...

Howard the Duck was a good movie you Dolt

And the ending to ME3 was good too...

[PiEman]

The Unfallen wrote...

Yeah, I liked the destroy ending. Problem?

Yeah, there is a problem.

[Evrathiel]

I understand your points Dragoonlordz and have read parts of your thread. The one point I do not agree upon is "A simple difference in expectations and desires for the product".

There is a post on these forums which lists numerous things BW has said before ME3 release and which it completely ignored in the game itself. I understand that if I'd approach ME3 thinking I'd get a full documentary on all species for 10k years after the finale I'd be dissapointed. However, if I base my expectations on what the game developers themselves imply am I wrong to be dissapointed if the product does not reflect their promises?

I didn't like the ending, it felt rushed and completely un-Mass-Effect-y. After watching the other endings on Youtube I disliked it even more due to, hmmm, how to put it spoiler-free... let's say to due to different colors. I might have enjoyed them more if ME3 was the only Mass Effect game, who knows.

However, if you liked the endings then good for you, glad you had fun

Modifié par Evrathiel, 30 mars 2012 - 03:13 .

[Rockpopple]

I don't like the endings that much.

I just don't think I'm owed a new one.

If BioWare decides its in their best interest, or that they want to provide me with a new ending, hell, I'm all for it. But if they don't, I can deal.

Sometimes good stories have ****ty endings. Has nothing to do with me, the end user.

Mass Effect is BioWare's story. It's their choice how to end it, whether they do a good job or a bad job.

I totally understand people who are angry at the endings, and even angry at the game. Hell, I've been there with other games. So I totally get it. You're entitled to that anger, for sure.

But nobody's entitled to a new ending. Nobody's owed a new ending. We paid for a game and we got a game. End of this. Get a refund, move on, or wait. That's my advice.

Sooner or later you're gonna have to let go of that anger, tho. Or it'll eat you up inside. I was furious at FFXIII - not just the ending but the whole game - for about a week after I played it, but I moved on. And thank goodness. It was driving me nuts.

[Legion64]

I just want the Mass Relays back so I didn't die in vain!

[Dragoonlordz]

Evrathiel wrote...

I understand your points Dragoonlordz and have read parts of your thread. The one point I do not agree upon is "A simple difference in expectations and desires for the product".

There is a post on these forums which lists numerous things BW has said before ME3 release and which it completely ignored in the game itself. I understand that if I'd approach ME3 thinking I'd get a full documentary on all species for 10k years after the finale I'd be dissapointed. However, if I base my expectations on what the game developers themselves imply am I wrong to be dissapointed if the product does not reflect their promises?

I didn't like the ending, it felt rushed and completely un-Mass-Effect-y. After watching the other endings on Youtube I disliked it even more due to, hmmm, how to put it spoiler-free... let's say to due to different colors. I might have enjoyed them more if ME3 was the only Mass Effect game, who knows.

However, if you liked the endings then good for you, glad you had fun

Thanks. I tend not to take much of what is said prior to retail as gospel though as things always seem to change during development so even though I had the urge to peek at the confirmed/rumour and tweets threads for the most part I didn't pay much attention to them since I never expect it to end up exactly the same way these days.

However it is still a difference in expectations and desires, it's just your expectations were based on something you put more faith in than myself. In the end I relied more on what I wanted to get from the game instead of relying on what they tell me I will get. Risky move maybe but paid off this time around, risk willing to take due to fact regardless of outcome I was always going to finish off the trilogy and buy it to begin with. Normally I would not risk it like that but since was going to buy it regardless it didn't matter.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 mars 2012 - 03:55 .