108 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexMBrennan]

7 hours later and no one has yet to mention the fact that Adepts have a 40% additional recharge bonus over other classes?

That's because the rest of us understand the difference between strategical depth and having useful passive stats.

Having said that, none of the classes have any real strategical depth (cloak+power+shoot, warp+throw, charge+nova spam ad infinitum for the win)

[Kronner]

Fortack wrote...

Cooldowns are ridiculous in ME3, they are way too fast for both Shep and teammates. Cooldowns have also become a non-issue (because of this). To balance things cooldowns can (and should) be used to differentiate powers. When power A is more effective (against certain (stronger) enemies) than power B is, it should have a much higher cooldown or nobody will cast power B at all. ME2 did this right to some extent. Singularity could lock down enemies with protection, Pull couldn't but had a 50% faster cooldown. The situation determined which one was more effective to use > both powers had purpose. This is no longer the case in ME3.

Exactly, plus squadmates have very short cooldowns as well. In ME2, they had longer cooldowns relative to Shepard. 

ME3 should bring back enemies with protections. Especially the standard Cerberus mooks really need some shield.
In ME2, these shields added to strategic depth and made combat more dynamic IMHO. 

If that actually happened, Singularity should be instacast power. It should also be the only biotic power that drains shields etc.

Modifié par Kronner, 30 mars 2012 - 09:24 .

[Fortack]

Yeah, in ME2 squadmates provided good assistance - the way is should be imo. In ME3 Liara makes Adept Shep look like a fool with her 100% reliable version of Singularity on a 3 sec cooldown.

[tonnactus]

The dodging of powers is idiotic and make bonus powers like stasis and reave superior to the things the adept have.That is something i agree with. But the adept is powerfull again and doesnt need defense strippers as squadmates and heavy weapons anymore. That is actually positive.

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...


ME3 should bring back enemies with protections. Especially the standard Cerberus mooks really need some shield.
In ME2, these shields added to strategic depth and made combat more dynamic IMHO. 

Is this a joke? All this would do is too add one extra step and the need to take a "overloader" in the squad. No,thanks.
Shielded troopers in addition to their grenade spam would make the game tedious,but not fun or strategic.

[Kristofer1]

adept is so much fun to play. double throw for shielded enemies. singularity and warp on armor and barriered enemies. love adept. ME1 i could only play soldier because of controls

[Kamikaze Gopher]

"Having said that, none of the classes have any real strategical depth (cloak+power+shoot, warp+throw, charge+nova spam ad infinitum for the win)"

I think that's the larger issue of the game as a whole. I think playing a bioslposion machine would be much more interesting if the enemies were a little more up to snuff. Every class seems powerful enough to melt waves of opposition with impunity. Fun strategy can't really develop.

"In ME3 Liara makes Adept Shep look like a fool with her 100% reliable version of Singularity on a 3 sec cooldown"
Also part of the problem in making the adept feel redundant. IIRC, the adept was the only class in ME2 that could make an explosion on his own. I think nerfing other biotic classes ability to make such gigantic or powerful explosions would help bring back a unique feel. They are the only class descibed as "being able to take out enemies without firing a shot" no?

[Raycer X]

While the Adept is in no way underpowered (it's quite the opposite), some of the skills are kind of... useless when compared to the upgrades of other skills. For example, a maxed out double pull compared to a maxed out singularity.

Honestly, I think it's not the class itself, but how some of the skills work in light of the new AI behaviors enemies perform IE: rolling/dodging.

Singularity is too easily dodged and the last two upgrades are fairly pointless. A slowly expanding singularity? People already die quickly enough with my squadmate's guns and smart power usage even on insanity.

Don't even get me started on the exploding singularity, that thing isn't so useful (at least imo). Singularity lasts like 30+ seconds so having it explode when it ends isn't that big of a deal. Hell, if that particular upgrade actually increased the biotic combo damage radius or explosive force, then it would have my attention.

Modifié par Raycer X, 30 mars 2012 - 12:49 .

[AlRPG]

Adept was really easy on Insanity. Warp, Warp, Singularity, Warp. etc..... contiune until everyone is dead. Bring tali and EDI for Fight with that Kia Leng character = victory.

[MegumiAzusa]

Singularity can't be dodged because it's aoe, something a warp/throw guy Sentinel can't do. Ofc you can just use Liara but you can say that to any skill in the game.
Additionally why would someone use tech armor when using biotics? It only provides a bonus to tech powers.

[tonnactus]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Singularity can't be dodged because it's aoe, something a warp/throw guy Sentinel can't do. Ofc you can just use Liara but you can say that to any skill in the game.
Additionally why would someone use tech armor when using biotics? It only provides a bonus to tech powers.

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Tech_Armor

All protection powers could boost power damage of all sorts,tech armor included.

[Navasha]

My adept insanity playthrough has been the easiest of them so far. Basically, all of those canon-fodder enemies don't survive more than 3 seconds on the field. Double lift/double throw, with the resulting explosions pretty much clears a field. The explosions have pretty much wiped out anything nearby that had shields as well.

Only thing left to ever fight is the bigger enemies... and without all the grunts around, they are taken down pretty quickly.

[RedCaesar97]

Kronner wrote...

Fortack wrote...

Cooldowns are ridiculous in ME3, they are way too fast for both Shep and teammates. Cooldowns have also become a non-issue (because of this). To balance things cooldowns can (and should) be used to differentiate powers. When power A is more effective (against certain (stronger) enemies) than power B is, it should have a much higher cooldown or nobody will cast power B at all. ME2 did this right to some extent. Singularity could lock down enemies with protection, Pull couldn't but had a 50% faster cooldown. The situation determined which one was more effective to use > both powers had purpose. This is no longer the case in ME3.

Exactly, plus squadmates have very short cooldowns as well. In ME2, they had longer cooldowns relative to Shepard. 

ME3 should bring back enemies with protections. Especially the standard Cerberus mooks really need some shield.
In ME2, these shields added to strategic depth and made combat more dynamic IMHO. 

If that actually happened, Singularity should be instacast power. It should also be the only biotic power that drains shields etc.

I wholeheartedly agree. And the protection mechanic actually made SMGs useful. Other than their light weight, most SMGs are practically useless. The protection mechanic also made for some interesting build choices for most classes: Do you focus on using your own defense-stripping powers and rely on squadmates for crowd-control, or do you take defense-stripping squadmates and use your own crowd-control abilities?

And I agree with Fortack: The changes to powers and combat mechanics in Mass Effect 3 made most of the Adept's powers overlap and redundant and just made them all explosions, and the Vanguard and Sentinel can do the same thing but more benefits.

[NICKjnp]

Try this build...you may like it.

Lvl 6 warp focusing on damage (go for the extra barrier and armor damage in the end.
Lvl 6 throw focusing on force and recharge (go +50% detonation at rank 5)...don't do the two throw projectiles.
Lvl 6 singularity focusing on radius and recharge.
Lvl 6 pull focusing on recharge and choosing the 2 meter field at rank 4.
Lvl 6 shockwave focusing on width, length, and recharge for clearing enemies behind tall cover.
Lvl 4 grenades
Lvl 6 biotic mastery going for max weight and choose combo mastery.
Lvl 6 fitness focusing on shields/health.
Lvl 6 barrier (power damage at rank 5 and 30% reduction at rank 5).

It is a good damager build that can absorb damage. Carry the vindicator rank 5 and the disciple rank 5. Easy to use even on Insanity.

[xJNPSx THE WAGN]

double throw and wide singularity are decent cc. But the adept is wayyyy better than in me2. On insanity he was horrible. I beat insanity with every class in me2 and the adept was by far the hardest and most boring. At least now it has more tools for biotic explosions. Almost every power can set up or explode, unlike on me2 when only warp could explode.  Also biotic explosions are cc in themselves. everything around it staggers or dies.

Modifié par xJNPSx THE WAGN, 30 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[JaegerBane]

NICKjnp wrote...

Try this build...you may like it.

Lvl 6 warp focusing on damage (go for the extra barrier and armor damage in the end.
Lvl 6 throw focusing on force and recharge (go +50% detonation at rank 5)...don't do the two throw projectiles.
Lvl 6 singularity focusing on radius and recharge.
Lvl 6 pull focusing on recharge and choosing the 2 meter field at rank 4.
Lvl 6 shockwave focusing on width, length, and recharge for clearing enemies behind tall cover.
Lvl 4 grenades
Lvl 6 biotic mastery going for max weight and choose combo mastery.
Lvl 6 fitness focusing on shields/health.
Lvl 6 barrier (power damage at rank 5 and 30% reduction at rank 5).

It is a good damager build that can absorb damage. Carry the vindicator rank 5 and the disciple rank 5. Easy to use even on Insanity.

Oddly enough mr nick, this is more or less exactly the build I'm working towards - the only difference being that I've taken Warp Ammo and intend to stick with it.

Didn't realise you get that many points... was worried I wasn't going to be able to max Throw, Pull, Singualrity, Fitness, Shockwave and Warp Ammo along with my already maxed Biotic Mastery and Warp.

[tonnactus]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

I wholeheartedly agree. And the protection mechanic actually made SMGs useful. Other than their light weight, most SMGs are practically useless. The protection mechanic also made for some interesting build choices for most classes: Do you focus on using your own defense-stripping powers and rely on squadmates for crowd-control, or do you take defense-stripping squadmates and use your own crowd-control abilities?

Or just use the arc projector...
Oh yes,that was deep gameplay.

[rumination888]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

7 hours later and no one has yet to mention the fact that Adepts have a 40% additional recharge bonus over other classes?

That's because the rest of us understand the difference between strategical depth and having useful passive stats.

Having said that, none of the classes have any real strategical depth (cloak+power+shoot, warp+throw, charge+nova spam ad infinitum for the win)

If none of the classes have any real strategical depth, then whats the point of a topic that focuses on a single class? Nevermind the fact that this series as a whole never really had any "strategical depth" in the first place. None of BioWare games ever did, not even the vaunted Baldur's Gate series.

My point is that Adepts were made to be the best at biotic combos. Its evident in their class passive. Saying a Sentinel has the bonus of pulling Tech Bursts is silly when Tech Bursts pale in comparison to biotic combos. Both have similar mechanics, both use up a GCD, one is clearly superior to the other. A Sentinel with Tech Armor up will always have a minimum -90% recharge deficit compared to an Adept. And aside from Detonation upgrades, recharge is the only thing that matters when it comes to biotic combos.

[Fortack]

xJNPSx THE WAGN wrote...

double throw and wide singularity are decent cc. But the adept is wayyyy better than in me2. On insanity he was horrible. I beat insanity with every class in me2 and the adept was by far the hardest and most boring. At least now it has more tools for biotic explosions. Almost every power can set up or explode, unlike on me2 when only warp could explode.  Also biotic explosions are cc in themselves. everything around it staggers or dies.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. The ME2 Adept - on Insanity - was the best and most fun way to play ME2 IMHO and I recommend watching these couple vids, they dismiss everything you've said:

www.youtube.com/watch - allround biotic destruction

www.youtube.com/watch - NG+ without Warp explosions

The ME2 Adept is a teamplayer, has excellent CC, can use the terrain to its advantage, has plenty of time to use weapons, has powers that are not dodged half the time, can blow up enemies or smash them against the wall, has an unique playstyle - the only class with access to Singularity and the only one capable of biotic combo'ing without help (and without squadmate limitations) etc.

The ME3 Adept can ONLY detonate enemies. There is no point, beside role-playing reasons, to select Adept in ME3 - the gimped version of the Sentinel and Vanguard. Sure, Adepts are powerful - like everyone else - but gameplay is the most simplistic (and dullest) of all 6 classes. Just give me one reason why anyone should play this class. Anything.
I don't think you can, coz there is nothing Adepts can do that other classes cannot. They are the equivalent of a Soldier without ARush, a Vanguard without Charge/Nova, the Infiltrator without Cloak etc. When one removes those signature abilities there is no point playing any of em, and that's what Bioware has done to the ME3 Adept.

[Sailears]

tonnactus wrote...

The dodging of powers is idiotic and make bonus powers like stasis and reave superior to the things the adept have.That is something i agree with. But the adept is powerfull again and doesnt need defense strippers as squadmates and heavy weapons anymore. That is actually positive.

Well I'd say the power dodging is really there for a way to insert difficulty into the autotargeting system, so I blame ME2 for that!

Unlike ME1, where despite being overpowered you still had to AIM powers, now you barely have to, cooldowns are nothing, and everything explodes in a similar way.

I do still enjoy playing adept, but cannot deny it is lacking in challenge, variety and uniqueness.

Modifié par Curunen, 30 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[rumination888]

Fortack wrote...

xJNPSx THE WAGN wrote...

double throw and wide singularity are decent cc. But the adept is wayyyy better than in me2. On insanity he was horrible. I beat insanity with every class in me2 and the adept was by far the hardest and most boring. At least now it has more tools for biotic explosions. Almost every power can set up or explode, unlike on me2 when only warp could explode.  Also biotic explosions are cc in themselves. everything around it staggers or dies.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. The ME2 Adept - on Insanity - was the best and most fun way to play ME2 IMHO and I recommend watching these couple vids, they dismiss everything you've said:

www.youtube.com/watch - allround biotic destruction

www.youtube.com/watch - NG+ without Warp explosions

The ME2 Adept is a teamplayer, has excellent CC, can use the terrain to its advantage, has plenty of time to use weapons, has powers that are not dodged half the time, can blow up enemies or smash them against the wall, has an unique playstyle - the only class with access to Singularity and the only one capable of biotic combo'ing without help (and without squadmate limitations) etc.

The ME3 Adept can ONLY detonate enemies. There is no point, beside role-playing reasons, to select Adept in ME3 - the gimped version of the Sentinel and Vanguard. Sure, Adepts are powerful - like everyone else - but gameplay is the most simplistic (and dullest) of all 6 classes. Just give me one reason why anyone should play this class. Anything.
I don't think you can, coz there is nothing Adepts can do that other classes cannot. They are the equivalent of a Soldier without ARush, a Vanguard without Charge/Nova, the Infiltrator without Cloak etc. When one removes those signature abilities there is no point playing any of em, and that's what Bioware has done to the ME3 Adept.

Oh god, not those videos again. Watching those vids is about as fun as watching someone play through the entire game with only utilizing a heavy pistol. Viable? Sure. Powerful? No. Strategic? lolno

Whats funny is that the ME3 Adept can do everything the ME2 Adept can as long as you ignore biotic combos.
...but you won't ignore it, will you? People are programmed to take the path of least resistance when presented with the oppurtunity, and biotic combos will always be a presented oppurtunity.

[xJNPSx THE WAGN]

I don't want to be a team player, I hate relying on squaddies (but i must admit liara is pretty amazing).  I remember playing the arrival dlc in me2 as an adept on insanity. I was practically banging my head against the wall with all those shielded enemies. In me3, the adept can wreck every defense alone, but team mates do help a lot. He can warp explode through shields and never really has to shoot, even on insanity. The adept has gotten a huge buff since me2, theres no comparison. Maybe he cant cc quite as well, but he can biotic explode so much easier and quicker. But I do think me1 adept was the best overall

Modifié par xJNPSx THE WAGN, 30 mars 2012 - 07:13 .

[idspisp0pd]

rumination888 wrote...

Oh god, not those videos again. Watching those vids is about as fun as watching someone play through the entire game with only utilizing a heavy pistol. Viable? Sure. Powerful? No. Strategic? lolno

Whats funny is that the ME3 Adept can do everything the ME2 Adept can as long as you ignore biotic combos.
...but you won't ignore it, will you? People are programmed to take the path of least resistance when presented with the oppurtunity, and biotic combos will always be a presented oppurtunity.

I'm not going to try to relitigate this ME2 stuff since it's been discussed ad nauseum in those forums. But regarding ME3, why should you have to deliberately nerf yourself by ignoring combos? What kind of an argument is that? It's like people who claim Vanguard isn't OP if you don't use Nova.

First of all, if you have to ignore one of the class's signature features to give yourself a challenge/variety, there's something wrong with the game design. Second, it's no fun to play that way, knowing that you are deliberately being less effective. Make the difficulty harder and make us work for it, don't make us tie our hands behind our backs to give ourselves a challenge.

[tonnactus]

xJNPSx THE WAGN wrote...
 But I do think me1 adept was the best overall

That is true. There is no good reason why crowd control powers shouldnt work on bosses(with reduced hold times of course). Its so idiotic that kai leng resist those powers even after losing his shields. Its just dumb and annoying that the only option i have against such enemies are weapons and damaging biotic powers like warp.

Modifié par tonnactus, 30 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[Fortack]

rumination888 wrote...

Whats funny is that the ME3 Adept can do everything the ME2 Adept can as long as you ignore biotic combos.
...but you won't ignore it, will you? People are programmed to take the path of least resistance when presented with the oppurtunity, and biotic combos will always be a presented oppurtunity.

Like what? You are so full of sh-t with your posts that Id like to hear, no I want to SEE, what the ME3 Adept can do that others can't. You are mentioning 40% cooldown bonus which is completely useless unless you equip 4 weapons or something, you say the ME3 Adept can do anything the ME2 one can. What exactly? Singularity doesn't CC anything that isn't red, you cannot Throw enemies off the map, duration (of all powers) is much shorter (=less CC) assuming it connects. The list goes on and on.

Put your money where your mouth is or go troll someplace else.