108 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

Fortack wrote...
What exactly? Singularity doesn't CC anything that isn't red, you cannot Throw enemies off the map, duration (of all powers) is much shorter (=less CC) assuming it connects. The list goes on and on.

I actually saw singularity hold centurions/marauders in a place.They shoot back but dont move away. And the hold duration of singularity in Mass Effect 2 wasnt that much bigger then in 2. Neither the radious.
Shockwave was pathetic,but now actually do decent damage. The duration of pull also isnt that much shorter then in Mass Effect 2( 7 seconds compared to 9).

Modifié par tonnactus, 30 mars 2012 - 07:44 .

[RGFrog]

I have to agree with Fortack, the powers overlap entirely too much. When I can accidentally or willy nilly mash power buttons and get the same results every time, then what's the use?

I'm an old-school singularity to cc, and pull+warp/throw for various effects. I thought it was neet initially to be able to pull+throw boom or warp + anything boom. But when i accidentally mash the wrong buttons and get the exact intended affect, then something's not right.

I should be penalized for lazy button mashing not rewarded.

I still love playing Adept, but it seems more thought was put into the other classes and the devs just intended two things with regard to adepts: everything should explode but that's too easy so the ai should evade every other cast, that should balance out the first.

Modifié par RGFrog, 30 mars 2012 - 07:40 .

[rumination888]

Fortack wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Whats funny is that the ME3 Adept can do everything the ME2 Adept can as long as you ignore biotic combos.
...but you won't ignore it, will you? People are programmed to take the path of least resistance when presented with the oppurtunity, and biotic combos will always be a presented oppurtunity.

Like what? You are so full of sh-t with your posts that Id like to hear, no I want to SEE, what the ME3 Adept can do that others can't. You are mentioning 40% cooldown bonus which is completely useless unless you equip 4 weapons or something, you say the ME3 Adept can do anything the ME2 one can. What exactly? Singularity doesn't CC anything that isn't red, you cannot Throw enemies off the map, duration (of all powers) is much shorter (=less CC) assuming it connects. The list goes on and on.

Put your money where your mouth is or go troll someplace else.

Power recharge useless unless you equip 4 weapons? You're one of those misinformed people on the boards who believe 200% cooldown bonus is the max you can achieve, aren't you?

Singularity can CC any protected enemy in ME3 that isn't a large target. It was the exact same way in ME2. The only difference is the length of time SIngularity stays on the field. In ME2, Singularity disappears in 1-3 seconds(dependant on rank and whether or not you picked up the Heavy version) upon touching a shielded enemy, in ME3, the length of Singularity only shortens if it touches multiple enemies(ME2 also had this penalty, on top of the one i mentioned previously)

You can throw enemies off the map. Seems like you're just trolling with that one.

And are you seriously complaining that 10 second CCs are too short in a game where enemies die in less than 5 seconds on Insanity(in both ME2 AND ME3)?

Modifié par rumination888, 30 mars 2012 - 07:53 .

[Neow]

They finally made biotic more useful by having more enemies without protection and the Adept players still complained.

Pretty sure this was done in response to "Oh I can't be a Biotic God in ME2 Hardcore/Insanity" group

Modifié par Neow, 30 mars 2012 - 09:29 .

[Svests]

rumination888 wrote...

Singularity can CC any protected enemy in ME3 that isn't a large target. It was the exact same way in ME2. The only difference is the length of time SIngularity stays on the field. In ME2, Singularity disappears in 1-3 seconds(dependant on rank and whether or not you picked up the Heavy version) upon touching a shielded enemy, in ME3, the length of Singularity only shortens if it touches multiple enemies(ME2 also had this penalty, on top of the one i mentioned previously)

In ME3 singularity will only use one of its hold attempts on a shielded target (however if you strip the shields it will try again).  In ME2 it could keep trying to grab the same guy over and over until it reached its maximum and then disapear.  So in ME2 it could keep a protected enemy staggered a little longer sometimes.

One neat thing I have noticed about singularity in ME3 though.  Shielded enemies don't seem to bother dodging it.  This allows you to fire off a singularity, then when the enemy is hit he is staggered long enough for you to hit him with energy drain.  At this point the singularuty will suck him up and then you can detonate him.  If you lead off with energy drain, or strip his shields some other way, he could try to dodge your pull/singularity.

[Dreadcall]

Golgoret wrote...

1. Take Liara
2. Spec for Energy Drain
3. Wipe out the entire galaxy in seconds

Liara's Singularity cooldown is almost non-existent. It can never be dodged (it also works on guardians even when their shield is up). Here is your adept guide:
Enemy has red bar: Liara Singularity then Shepard Warp (or Double Throw depending on how many mobs are captured)
Enemy has blue bar: Energy Drain. Enemy now has red bar.
Enemy has yellow bar: Liara warp, Shepard Throw
Enemy has purple bar: Liara warp, shepard Throw + Energy Drain. Enemy now has yellow or red bar.

Obviously, that's oversimplified, but Adepts are basically unstoppable. The only "problem" I've found with them is that sentinels seem vastly superior, in that they get the important adept abilities (warp + throw) but also get overload for demolishing shields and barriers. Liara synergizes extremely well (far too well imo) with other biotics, since she has super low cooldown biotic primers that you can detonate with warp and throw.

Why complicate things so much? Warp -> Throw on everything, stasis bubble phantoms. Congrats, you won the game.

[Fortack]

rumination888 wrote...

Power recharge useless unless you equip 4 weapons? You're one of those misinformed people on the boards who believe 200% cooldown bonus is the max you can achieve, aren't you?

You have not answered the question why having insane recharge speeds has any use. Are you saying you can detonate enemies every 0.X second? Then you are superman.

Singularity can CC any protected enemy in ME3 that isn't a large target. It was the exact same way in ME2. The only difference is the length of time SIngularity stays on the field. In ME2, Singularity disappears in 1-3 seconds(dependant on rank and whether or not you picked up the Heavy version) upon touching a shielded enemy, in ME3, the length of Singularity only shortens if it touches multiple enemies(ME2 also had this penalty, on top of the one i mentioned previously)

You apparently have not played the same games I did. ME2 Sing can hold elite enemies - like Harby and Scions - for 6-8 seconds (not 1-3). The ME3 version doesn't hold anything with protection unless the AI decides not to move, then the target will be staggered every couple seconds or so (but it will shoot back between staggers). This happens less than 5% of the time you use it, hence why its a horrible and completely unreliable (= near useless) ability to CC.

You can throw enemies off the map. Seems like you're just trolling with that one.

No, enemies explode (pull-throw). They obviously can end up somewhere outside of the map, but the player has no control over the direction, the player did have that ability in ME2. The arcing angle has been decreased significantly in ME3, further reducing the player's control where the enemy will end up.

And are you seriously complaining that 10 second CCs are too short in a game where enemies die in less than 5 seconds on Insanity(in both ME2 AND ME3)?

I guess you've been playing ME2 instead of ME3. There isn't a single biotic power the ME3 Adept can use that CCs a single enemy for 10 seconds (on Insanity), regardless evolutions. But feel free to try it yourself instead of looking at the descriptions which tell little about how stuff actually works when you play the game.

[Fortack]

Svests wrote...

One neat thing I have noticed about singularity in ME3 though.  Shielded enemies don't seem to bother dodging it.

Some enemy types do this - sometimes - most don't. A Cerberus Centurion hardly tries to dodge any power (they will occasionally though). But Nemesis, Phantoms, Marauders, Geth rocket troopers, Pyros, Hunters do it all the time. It does not matter which power you use, and all the Adept's powers can be used for this. You can hit those Centurions with Pull, Throw, Warp, Sing, or Shockwave to stagger - shoot down his shield (stagger them again if needed, powers don't have a cooldown anyway) and pray he won't start rolling around when his shields are gone.

The main problem is reliability. Everything the ME3 Adept does is a gamble hence why it is not possible to build any kind of strategy around its powers. ME2 Singularity wasn't completely fail-safe, but when cast at close range it would hit the target with >95% certainty and hold anything with shields, barriers, or armor for a decent amount of time. In ME3 the Adept has to rely on squadmates or a bonus power for reliable CC.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Fortack I really thank you for this thread because it does address my problems with the adept.
The ultimate coward no guts dull repetitive [overpowered] class.

I picked Liara and Javik and I curbstomped insanity. No challenge what so ever. IAnd it got boring fast.I eventually stopped using my own Singularity and just used Liara's.

Also, even with the double pull and double throw: If you have luck like mine, two enemies will dodge each power or the same enemy will dodge one and the other will hit a piece of cover.

Lucky me :/

It's a true no balls class. Brute or banshee run up to you? Spam cluster grenades and squad powers to make the bad thing go away. Fully upgraded cluster nades specced for damage and force end up being better than your singularity. I have stopped brute charges and banshee aniamtions about to instant kill my squaddies with maxxed cluster nades. Sad.

Hell most of the time my singularity got stuck on a wall or cover several feet away from the enemy it was targeting and the enemy was fine and i was stuck on cool down and just made liara use her's.

Modifié par Biotic Flash Kick, 31 mars 2012 - 12:20 .

[Vicious Mello]

I play Adept more than anything else (in every game) and in ME1 I was a powerhouse, ME2 made me feel a bit gimped, but still fun and tactical, and ME3 is back to where it should be -- I feel like an absolute powerhouse again.

The playstyle OP describes isn't 'cowardly,' it's smart. A class that can't take as much damage as most others would be designed to hang back, let squadmates be aggressive, and control the battlefield from a distance.

[Fortack]

Vicious Mello wrote...

The playstyle OP describes isn't 'cowardly,' it's smart. A class that can't take as much damage as most others would be designed to hang back, let squadmates be aggressive, and control the battlefield from a distance.

I wouldn't call camping plus spamming 3 buttons over and over again "smart" - it's more like "dull", "simplistic" or "boring", at least that's how I see it.

Like I've said in the OP, the problem is the unreliability of all the Adept's powers. That, and that alone, makes it impossible to do anything else but hang back and spam powers. I like to play really aggressive, and I like using the Adept's CC abilities (instead of tanking like Vanguards and Sentinels can do) to reduce the enemy thread through disabling as many enemies possible to allow me to get close and personal and blow their brains out with a shotgun. That's how I played the ME1 and ME2 Adept. The former is very easy because there were no enemies who could fight back, the latter was lots of fun because it was risky but possible. It isn't possible in ME3 which make the Adept a class that can only be played in one (boring and unexciting) way.

Note that this doesn't take the poor selection of powers into consideration. I am glad, although it doesn't change anything, that there are many other people who feel the same way I do. When I look at the available powers in ME3 it doesn't take much imagination to think of an Adept that can do the stuff I'd like them to do. Its a waste Bioware didn't made it so. They apparently believe having very strong bonus powers is more important than equipping the Adept with a decent set of their own

[lazuli]

I'm not really in love with enemies dodging biotics, but it isn't a completely useless mechanic. It encourages you to get closer to enemies before firing off your powers. Additionally, it encourages you to spec for impact radius. Even if enemies roll out of the way, if you have the impact radius specs odds are good you'll still hit them, especially if you're arcing your powers to hit from above.

[Fortack]

lazuli wrote...

I'm not really in love with enemies dodging biotics, but it isn't a completely useless mechanic. It encourages you to get closer to enemies before firing off your powers. Additionally, it encourages you to spec for impact radius. Even if enemies roll out of the way, if you have the impact radius specs odds are good you'll still hit them, especially if you're arcing your powers to hit from above.

I wish it was so Lazuli, but enemies who are one feet away are still very capable of dodging your powers
I cannot tell with certainty whether or not range has any effect on dodging powers, maybe there is a smaller chance enemies will avoid getting hit, I dunno. But they still do it. A couple days ago I had a Nemesis dodging 3 Warps in a row at point blank range (in MP), I finally did manage to take her out using the good old elbow and my shotgun, but it was really annoying!

Dodging an sich would be a cool addition to gameplay if enemies did it randomly. They don't. The dodge animation is triggered when you press the power button (the player makes enemies dodge), and as far as I can tell, it's completely random. When enemies would dodge randomly, it'd be the fault of the player when he or she tries to use a power during the animation (so it would miss), that would be great. But the current mechanics' purpose is to counter power spamming: Powers won't always hit thus make the game more "difficult" - annoying and infuriating are the words I would use to define this nonsense though

[Soja57]

The biotic arsenal of the Adept in Mass Effect 3 has lost its unique powers that were present in ME2. Each power had their own unique purpose (excluding Shockwave), and I utilized all of them (all 4 powers mapped to my mouse) in many different situations. Now, I can use 2 hotkeys to completely decimate enemies (with an occasional bring-up-command-menu for a third power). This change has rendered the Adept dull and straight-forward, and part of the reason is because of the insane cooldowns from weapon loadouts, and the lack of imagination when the gameplay designers designed the extended evolution branch trees.

Each power should be clearly defined around a unique purpose without overlapping with one another. For example:

Physical Force
    Shockwave
        - Area Effect
        - Physical Force
        - Combo Detonator (Throws enemies along direction of impacts in a wide radius)
        - Long Cooldown
    Throw
        - Single Target
        - Physical Force (More force than Shockwave)
        - No Detonation
        - Fast Cooldown

Damage
    Warp
        - Single Target
        - Damage
        - Debuff
        - Combo Detonator (Damages and debuffs enemies nearby, but does not knock them down)
        - Medium Cooldown

Crowd Control
    Singularity
        - Area Effect
        - Crowd Control
        - Combo Starter (Boosts the radius of detonations)
        - Long Cooldown
    Pull
        - Single Target
        - Crowd Control (Longer duration than Singularity)
        - Combo Starter (Boosts the damage and force of detonations)
        - Fast Cooldown

New class-Exclusive Power???
    Impulse (Grenade)????
        - Area Effect
        - Damage (Huge bonus vs Armor + Barriers, meant more for defense stripping than dealing health damage)
        - "Throws" nearby enemies towards target enemy or location to set up Area Effect powers, see the following for a visual example: http://www.youtube.c...zuKBTt3U#t=335s
        - No Detonation
        - Long Cooldown (or in the form of limited Grenades)

Impulse (Grenade) is a new power that adds more to the Adept's arsenal than Cluster Grenades currently do. In addition to setting up clusters of enemies to be crowd controlled by Singularity + Shockwave, Impulse (Grenade) strips the defenses of protected enemies to open up oppurtunities for biotic powers, instead of forcing the player to over-rely on squadmates or weapons like in ME2. Compare this to the rather redundant Cluster Grenades, which serve only to push enemies away (Throw + Shockwave) or deal damage (Warp).

[Senario]

spiros9110 wrote...

Are you serious? I played my first playthrough on insanity as an Adept and I was a freaking truck running through the enemies, the only difficult part was near the end of Earth, with the constant Bashee/Brute spawning, ouch.

I find the Adept to be one of the more powerful classes in ME3, but I guess it's just me.

It felt like a good mix of ME1/2, the cooldown reduction because of using Biotic explosions was a great addition and made the class feel powerful, plus - all those Biotic combinations; there is what, quite a few I imagine.

Agreed, I'm playing adept and I run through all enemy forces with little to no trouble at all on insanity. Having squad mates who are spec'ed to constantly take out enemy shields is very useful. Also allows me to AoE enemies to death with detonations. The only things that stop me from advancing are...Ravagers, and Cerberus Turrets. And those hurt regardless of what you play.

It is indeed a good mix between 1/2. And although I dislike the fact that enemies can dodge roll your biotics...I mean really? Liara's Singularity never misses because its instant. But whatever, I should test out pull since I have it maxed out. Maybe it is more accurate than singularity....concerned about damage ouput though. Singularity with warp does Incredible amounts of damage.

[Fortack]

Soja57 wrote...

The biotic arsenal of the Adept in Mass Effect 3 has lost its unique powers that were present in ME2. Each power had their own unique purpose (excluding Shockwave), and I utilized all of them (all 4 powers mapped to my mouse) in many different situations. Now, I can use 2 hotkeys to completely decimate enemies (with an occasional bring-up-command-menu for a third power). This change has rendered the Adept dull and straight-forward, and part of the reason is because of the insane cooldowns from weapon loadouts, and the lack of imagination when the gameplay designers designed the extended evolution branch trees.

Each power should be clearly defined around a unique purpose without overlapping with one another. For example:

Physical Force
    Shockwave
        - Area Effect
        - Physical Force
        - Combo Detonator (Throws enemies along direction of impacts in a wide radius)
        - Long Cooldown
    Throw
        - Single Target
        - Physical Force (More force than Shockwave)
        - No Detonation
        - Fast Cooldown

Damage
    Warp
        - Single Target
        - Damage
        - Debuff
        - Combo Detonator (Damages and debuffs enemies nearby, but does not knock them down)
        - Medium Cooldown

Crowd Control
    Singularity
        - Area Effect
        - Crowd Control
        - Combo Starter (Boosts the radius of detonations)
        - Long Cooldown
    Pull
        - Single Target
        - Crowd Control (Longer duration than Singularity)
        - Combo Starter (Boosts the damage and force of detonations)
        - Fast Cooldown

New class-Exclusive Power???
    Impulse (Grenade)????
        - Area Effect
        - Damage (Huge bonus vs Armor + Barriers, meant more for defense stripping than dealing health damage)
        - "Throws" nearby enemies towards target enemy or location to set up Area Effect powers, see the following for a visual example: http://www.youtube.c...zuKBTt3U#t=335s
        - No Detonation
        - Long Cooldown (or in the form of limited Grenades)

Impulse (Grenade) is a new power that adds more to the Adept's arsenal than Cluster Grenades currently do. In addition to setting up clusters of enemies to be crowd controlled by Singularity + Shockwave, Impulse (Grenade) strips the defenses of protected enemies to open up oppurtunities for biotic powers, instead of forcing the player to over-rely on squadmates or weapons like in ME2. Compare this to the rather redundant Cluster Grenades, which serve only to push enemies away (Throw + Shockwave) or deal damage (Warp).

I like this human!

I know you've looked into biotic explosions and stuff for Spectre Difficulty - thanks for the name btw! Have you found anything in the Coalesced file that might allow us to create powers like the ones you've put forth here?
For example, I don't like everything detonating the lot. Is it possible to remove that feature entirely (for some powers)? I liked how things worked in ME2 where only Warp could make things go boom whilst the other biotic powers received a 100% force bonus instead.

Anyway, I think it's better to discuss this in the appropriate topic. Thanks for posting your ideas here. They would solve most of the issues I have with biotics in general, and the Adept as a class.

[Stardusk]

Senario wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

Are you serious? I played my first playthrough on insanity as an Adept and I was a freaking truck running through the enemies, the only difficult part was near the end of Earth, with the constant Bashee/Brute spawning, ouch.

I find the Adept to be one of the more powerful classes in ME3, but I guess it's just me.

It felt like a good mix of ME1/2, the cooldown reduction because of using Biotic explosions was a great addition and made the class feel powerful, plus - all those Biotic combinations; there is what, quite a few I imagine.

Agreed, I'm playing adept and I run through all enemy forces with little to no trouble at all on insanity. Having squad mates who are spec'ed to constantly take out enemy shields is very useful. Also allows me to AoE enemies to death with detonations. The only things that stop me from advancing are...Ravagers, and Cerberus Turrets. And those hurt regardless of what you play.

It is indeed a good mix between 1/2. And although I dislike the fact that enemies can dodge roll your biotics...I mean really? Liara's Singularity never misses because its instant. But whatever, I should test out pull since I have it maxed out. Maybe it is more accurate than singularity....concerned about damage ouput though. Singularity with warp does Incredible amounts of damage.

Insanity is a joke in ME3 but your comments support Fortack's point. ZERO challenge.

[silverspirit2001]

No one got love for the auto detonation on singularity? Just about to start my adept run, and having a AOE auto detonating grenade to place in strategic areas, to help prevent flanking and kill mooks sounds good?

And warp + shockwave apparently detonates even when used on shielded enemies? Do not know yet if warp and throw can do the same to shielded enemies, but shockwave has a fairly decent damage component now to it.

[Little Princess Peach]

This is the same reason I never choose Adepts in ME I find them to weak and unbalanced, I always choose Vangaurd

[Stardusk]

Actually is there any point to using Singuarlity at all?

[Little Princess Peach]

Stardusk wrote...

Actually is there any point to using Singuarlity at all?

it makes the enamies fly thats about it

[orangesonic]

adept are the weakest class in ME for sure

[Fortack]

orangesonic wrote...

adept are the weakest class in ME for sure

Nobody is weak in ME3, more like way too powerful. The ME3 Adept has the weakest selection of powers, but they can spam biotic explosions, like the other two biotic classes, all day long. And they will annilihate anything fast and easy.

I cannot stress enough that this topic is not about the Adept being weak or incapable of doing anything. The main point here is the lack of something special, something that creates an incentive to play the Adept after completing the game with another class. I cannot think of anything, when you've played Sentinel (or Vanguard) you have already experienced everything the Adept can do. It's more of the same minus Tech skills, Charge, and ammo powers.

[JaegerBane]

silverspirit2001 wrote...

No one got love for the auto detonation on singularity? Just about to start my adept run, and having a AOE auto detonating grenade to place in strategic areas, to help prevent flanking and kill mooks sounds good?

The problem is that, since you'd ordinarily prefer your singularity to last as long as possible and the extra detonation is never triggered if you carry out a biotic combo, its largely worthless.

The only way I can see this being useful is if it detonates when you plant another singularity - since singularities typically expire early if you place another one. That way it could basically work a biotic version of the grenades in ME1. I need to test that first, though.

[Arppis]

Every biotic should have pull... Shockwave can go and get shot.

Modifié par Arppis, 05 avril 2012 - 12:59 .