516 réponses à ce sujet

[ShdwFox7]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I honestly don't know what to believe anymore. But know this I awaken everyday with a strengthened resolve.

If you can say that in all honestly I envy you. I've been waking up with off and on depression over this. Not to mention the five stages of grief in general:

denial - yeah it must be indoctrination theory!

anger - darn you Bioware! I'm going to hold the line, you'll see!

bargaining - maybe if we rant enough on these forums they'll acknowledge our complaints...

depression - why did they think this was a good idea, really? Going to look at the comical pictures thread to lighten my mood.

acceptance - yep... they really did do something incredibly dumb.

[Esquin]

Yalision wrote...

The problem I foresee here is that there may be a ton of people attending this Panel who don't know anything about Mass Effect except the media holier-than-thou drivel that has been forcefed to them throughout this entire debacle. We may account for a majority of the Mass Effect fan base, but of the entire glut of gamers that will be attending PAX? Definitely not.

I firmly believe the Retake movement will be outnumbered 10:1 in the midst of PAX, which is sad. People have been conditioned to to accept a product they bought which had some very shifty and disappointing advertising about how it would all wrap up. Generally speaking a company should be held accountable for all of its marketing, hence the FTC debacle (which I don't agree with).

Games are a tenuous balancing act between art and consumer product. Art can still satisfy consumer desires, and bending to consumer desires can still create art. The two are not exclusive to either end, and never have been. Changing an ending to a game to satisfy your fans doesn't sacrifice the integrity of the nature of the art this medium offers either, because art is an expression, and in games it is an expression that can change.

Hell, if I want to be brutally honest think about the cliched stories of artists comissioned to paint royalty. Often in those stories the royalty might take a peak or two at the art and have it changed to meet their desires. In the end it was still art, but it was art that was paid for to satisfy the client/consumer. It was still art.

Now we aren't fat cat royalty, but we definitely love the portrait that was given to us... except for that big honkin' wart on the tip of our nose. Lets have that removed. Because you're making this art for an audience to sell, and yes there is a certain amount of obligation that comes with that when you're looking to make a profit.

And don't forget that PAX is run by Penny Arcade. A group who hates us with a passion and has tried to stop the maovement from day 1. 

[Taboo]

Yalision wrote...

The problem I foresee here is that there may be a ton of people attending this Panel who don't know anything about Mass Effect except the media holier-than-thou drivel that has been forcefed to them throughout this entire debacle. We may account for a majority of the Mass Effect fan base, but of the entire glut of gamers that will be attending PAX? Definitely not.

I firmly believe the Retake movement will be outnumbered 10:1 in the midst of PAX, which is sad. People have been conditioned to to accept a product they bought which had some very shifty and disappointing advertising about how it would all wrap up. Generally speaking a company should be held accountable for all of its marketing, hence the FTC debacle (which I don't agree with).

Games are a tenuous balancing act between art and consumer product. Art can still satisfy consumer desires, and bending to consumer desires can still create art. The two are not exclusive to either end, and never have been. Changing an ending to a game to satisfy your fans doesn't sacrifice the integrity of the nature of the art this medium offers either, because art is an expression, and in games it is an expression that can change.

Hell, if I want to be brutally honest think about the cliched stories of artists comissioned to paint royalty. Often in those stories the royalty might take a peak or two at the art and have it changed to meet their desires. In the end it was still art, but it was art that was paid for to satisfy the client/consumer. It was still art.

Now we aren't fat cat royalty, but we definitely love the portrait that was given to us... except for that big honkin' wart on the tip of our nose. Lets have that removed. Because you're making this art for an audience to sell, and yes there is a certain amount of obligation that comes with that when you're looking to make a profit.

They may not know now but they will by the end of the PAX meeting. Dr. Muzyka couldn't placate us, which says how upset people are. The BBC, CNN and even the dreaded Fox News have reported on this issue. To ignore us would be foolish. It's no longer about us being a group of whiny people. We have strength, more than we know. Hold the line and change will happen.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 30 mars 2012 - 02:31 .

[ShdwFox7]

Yalision wrote...
I firmly believe the Retake movement will be outnumbered 10:1 in the midst of PAX, which is sad. People have been conditioned to to accept a product they bought which had some very shifty and disappointing advertising about how it would all wrap up. Generally speaking a company should be held accountable for all of its marketing, hence the FTC debacle (which I don't agree with).

Yep, pretty sure some people will be coming just to pull up a seat (grab some popcorn) and watch the show

edit: added in "some" people to better get the point across. Was never meant to sound derogatory

Modifié par ShdwFox7, 30 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[xeNNN]

this is probably one of the best threads on the forum right now.

very well said and put forward.

i think people here need to realise we cant break if they say something we dont like or say something that is a clear PR tactic or dodge.

the op is exactly right WE NEED to make sure they know we are not going away at all.

this is important for the community and the series we all love and i think we all need to step up when the time comes and make sure they know it.

[Taboo]

ShdwFox7 wrote...

Yalision wrote...
I firmly believe the Retake movement will be outnumbered 10:1 in the midst of PAX, which is sad. People have been conditioned to to accept a product they bought which had some very shifty and disappointing advertising about how it would all wrap up. Generally speaking a company should be held accountable for all of its marketing, hence the FTC debacle (which I don't agree with).

Yep, pretty sure people will be coming just to pull up a seat (grab some popcorn) and watch the show

Numbers mean nothing if played right. Bioware knows damn good and well who's going to be there. If they don't give us straight answers the madness with only get worse and sales will decline further. Do what you think is right. That is what matters most.

[Cucobr]

ShdwFox7 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I honestly don't know what to believe anymore. But know this I awaken everyday with a strengthened resolve.

If you can say that in all honestly I envy you. I've been waking up with off and on depression over this. Not to mention the five stages of grief in general:

denial - yeah it must be indoctrination theory!

anger - darn you Bioware! I'm going to hold the line, you'll see!

bargaining - maybe if we rant enough on these forums they'll acknowledge our complaints...

depression - why did they think this was a good idea, really? Going to look at the comical pictures thread to lighten my mood.

acceptance - yep... they really did do something incredibly dumb.

see this: 

[Paparob]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Paparob wrote...

How dare you post a thread with wordplay in the topic. Damn you sir, damn you to Hell.

It was a real.............................GAMBLE.

FUUUUUU

[jonal11]

Michael Gamble wrote...

Folks,

I don't represent whether or not EA funds us for any DLC content. EA supports us, don't worry about that. I help to manage some of that budget, yes, but my primary goal is to work with Casey (the executive producer) and the other creative visionaries around BioWare and create something we are proud of.

I can understand how Producers get a bad reputation sometimes - but most of us care passionately about the product we are putting out. Of course, having a financially successful game is important - but making something we are proud of, and something that's a very high quality is even more important to me.

More soon...And see, we still do read the forums

This makes me strangley optimistic.

[jeff359]

As it stands now before PAX, I'm not considering a ea/bioware product if this is the level of quality product I can expect. We'll see how it is after.

[ShdwFox7]

Cucobr wrote...

ShdwFox7 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I honestly don't know what to believe anymore. But know this I awaken everyday with a strengthened resolve.

If you can say that in all honestly I envy you. I've been waking up with off and on depression over this. Not to mention the five stages of grief in general:

denial - yeah it must be indoctrination theory!

anger - darn you Bioware! I'm going to hold the line, you'll see!

bargaining - maybe if we rant enough on these forums they'll acknowledge our complaints...

depression - why did they think this was a good idea, really? Going to look at the comical pictures thread to lighten my mood.

acceptance - yep... they really did do something incredibly dumb.

see this: 

    Yep, I'm already well aware of Acayvos's videos. I was initially saying that the indoctrination theory was a sign of denial for me because it truly was. It was one of the first posts I took to on this forum because I was searching for answers. It wasn't until I got to the last stage of grief, acceptance, that I decided that maybe the indoctrination theory was correct after all. And I admit a big part of that was because of Acayvos's video on the subject. It brought to my attention even more questions I didn't have before. I'm now a firm believer in the indoctrination theory.

    Another reason I said it's a sign of denial is because I know I'm not the only one. I've seen indoctrination theory believers who see it and take to it immediately. Acting like it's an absolute scientific law rather than a theory. That kind of mentality is wrong, you should always take everything at first with a grain of salt, it's only logicial.

Edit: Just want to add that I'll be speaking no more on this subject. I feel like everytime I talk about the indoctrination theory on this thread it's just a distraction from the main topic, which is something I wish to avoid because it's a great post.

Modifié par ShdwFox7, 30 mars 2012 - 03:15 .

[xMellowhype]

It's a gamble...but the priiiiiiiiiize.

[Gemini1179]

jonal11 wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

Folks,

I don't represent whether or not EA funds us for any DLC content. EA supports us, don't worry about that. I help to manage some of that budget, yes, but my primary goal is to work with Casey (the executive producer) and the other creative visionaries around BioWare and create something we are proud of.

I can understand how Producers get a bad reputation sometimes - but most of us care passionately about the product we are putting out. Of course, having a financially successful game is important - but making something we are proud of, and something that's a very high quality is even more important to me.

More soon...And see, we still do read the forums

This makes me strangley optimistic.

I'm curious as to why. Passionate caring doesn't mean a hell of beans if you still release an unfinished game.

[DarthSyphilis59]

hardermob5 wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

Folks,

I don't represent whether or not EA funds us for any DLC content. EA supports us, don't worry about that. I help to manage some of that budget, yes, but my primary goal is to work with Casey (the executive producer) and the other creative visionaries around BioWare and create something we are proud of.

I can understand how Producers get a bad reputation sometimes - but most of us care passionately about the product we are putting out. Of course, having a financially successful game is important - but making something we are proud of, and something that's a very high quality is even more important to me.

More soon...And see, we still do read the forums

It took some guts to post this, especially as how what happens over the next ten days will have a significant impact on the long term success of Bioware.  Your confidence that your heart is in the right place gives me a glimmer of hope for the Mass Effect 3 ending.

God speed Mr. Gamble! You're a beacon of hope in an otherwise bleak and dreary world! 

[-Skorpious-]

This is an awesome thread; it truly captures the purpose and expectations of the movement in my opinion. To personally reiterate, I am requesting additional endings and an added epilogue for future DLC - any less Bioware, and I can honestly say that you will have lost a customer ( I understand if you may not want to hear such statements, but you guys need honest brutality at this point).

Regardless of what side of the line you stand on, sugar-coated lies won't help anyone.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 30 mars 2012 - 03:06 .

[htewing]

I will print this and take it with me as a reminder.

[Chaoswind]

Michael Gamble wrote...

Folks,

I don't represent whether or not EA funds us for any DLC content. EA supports us, don't worry about that. I help to manage some of that budget, yes, but my primary goal is to work with Casey (the executive producer) and the other creative visionaries around BioWare and create something we are proud of.

I can understand how Producers get a bad reputation sometimes - but most of us care passionately about the product we are putting out. Of course, having a financially successful game is important - but making something we are proud of, and something that's a very high quality is even more important to me.

More soon...And see, we still do read the forums

o.o

is an ALIEN!!!!

No wait is a Turian, move along people nothing to see

[ConradsLaces]

Fntastic post Taboo. Wonderful read, and very well written.

While I will not be attending PAX, others in this forum probably will be... so, I've turned your post into an Adobe PDF, and put it on Google Docs for the public at large to print out, and take with them to PAX... sort of like a test prep sheet.
Keep it with you, and read up, right up untl the panel starts... keep it in mind, and be a good human being.

Pax SCenario - by Taboo-XX on Google Docs (Public)

[RedTail F22]

good points

[Skyhawk02]

I think the original post's assumption about producer's is completely wrong. In television, for example, the producer is the guy in charge of the overall story for the show, he is not in charge of the financial side of things. Mike Gamble's comment seems to confirm that it is similar in games.

[Midarc2nd]

ShdwFox7 wrote...

denial - yeah it must be indoctrination theory!

anger - darn you Bioware! I'm going to hold the line, you'll see!

bargaining - maybe if we rant enough on these forums they'll acknowledge our complaints...

depression - why did they think this was a good idea, really? Going to look at the comical pictures thread to lighten my mood.

acceptance - yep... they really did do something incredibly dumb.

Nope.
It works like this.

http://www.escapistm...t-3-The-Process


Good to see that the bigwigs are still reading the forums.
When they answer?
That's better.
(probably just snuffling around for more cupcakes...)

Anyway.
Holding that line.

[phyreblade74]

Michael Gamble wrote...

Folks,

I don't represent whether or not EA funds us for any DLC content. EA supports us, don't worry about that. I help to manage some of that budget, yes, but my primary goal is to work with Casey (the executive producer) and the other creative visionaries around BioWare and create something we are proud of.

I can understand how Producers get a bad reputation sometimes - but most of us care passionately about the product we are putting out. Of course, having a financially successful game is important - but making something we are proud of, and something that's a very high quality is even more important to me.

More soon...And see, we still do read the forums

Thank you much for stopping by and saying hello, Mr. Gamble.  

[FabricatedWookie]

Esquin wrote...

Yalision wrote...

The problem I foresee here is that there may be a ton of people attending this Panel who don't know anything about Mass Effect except the media holier-than-thou drivel that has been forcefed to them throughout this entire debacle. We may account for a majority of the Mass Effect fan base, but of the entire glut of gamers that will be attending PAX? Definitely not.

I firmly believe the Retake movement will be outnumbered 10:1 in the midst of PAX, which is sad. People have been conditioned to to accept a product they bought which had some very shifty and disappointing advertising about how it would all wrap up. Generally speaking a company should be held accountable for all of its marketing, hence the FTC debacle (which I don't agree with).

Games are a tenuous balancing act between art and consumer product. Art can still satisfy consumer desires, and bending to consumer desires can still create art. The two are not exclusive to either end, and never have been. Changing an ending to a game to satisfy your fans doesn't sacrifice the integrity of the nature of the art this medium offers either, because art is an expression, and in games it is an expression that can change.

Hell, if I want to be brutally honest think about the cliched stories of artists comissioned to paint royalty. Often in those stories the royalty might take a peak or two at the art and have it changed to meet their desires. In the end it was still art, but it was art that was paid for to satisfy the client/consumer. It was still art.

Now we aren't fat cat royalty, but we definitely love the portrait that was given to us... except for that big honkin' wart on the tip of our nose. Lets have that removed. Because you're making this art for an audience to sell, and yes there is a certain amount of obligation that comes with that when you're looking to make a profit.

And don't forget that PAX is run by Penny Arcade. A group who hates us with a passion and has tried to stop the maovement from day 1. 

penny arcade doesn't hate take back mass effect. Gabe is an opinionated dude, and tycho dislikes the notion that art is sacred. Their new game writer isn't a fan but so what? 

[Urbonov]

Esquin wrote...

And don't forget that PAX is run by Penny Arcade. A group who hates us with a passion and has tried to stop the maovement from day 1. 

With all due respect, I just think this is untrue. Are you honestly translating a desire to ensure the smooth running of a charity for sick kids with hating the Retake movement?

They said it best in their post in the Penny Arcade site.

"Child's Play cannot be a tool to draw attention to a cause. Child's Plat must be the the Cause."

Can you really fault them for it? Regardless of their position on the Retake movement, they have a noble cause they are working towards with their charity, and I for one don't want it to be jepordized for anything.

Even my desire for lots and lots of blue children.

The posts at Penny Arcade have never indicated they have any negative feelings towards the Retake Movement, and I take them at their word, and why shouldn't I? I'm not going to question the character and integrity of people are started a gorram charity for sick kids.

Hold the Line...but not with hate.