Aller au contenu

Photo

The "Gamble" at PAX and why you need to be ready. *Updated 4/2/12 Contingency Plan Outlined* (Please Read)


516 réponses à ce sujet

#401
BigZ7337

BigZ7337
  • Members
  • 112 messages

Gemini1179 wrote...

Michael Gamble wrote...

Folks,

I don't represent whether or not EA funds us for any DLC content. EA supports us, don't worry about that. I help to manage some of that budget, yes, but my primary goal is to work with Casey (the executive producer) and the other creative visionaries around BioWare and create something we are proud of.

I can understand how Producers get a bad reputation sometimes - but most of us care passionately about the product we are putting out. Of course, having a financially successful game is important - but making something we are proud of, and something that's a very high quality is even more important to me.

More soon...And see, we still do read the forums :)


Mr. Gamble,

                    I do not envy you or Mr. Hudson. You both are willingly and perhaps as part of your job, putting yourselves in the line of fire. Let's dispense with the BS though, seriously. A team that cared so passionately about a product they are putting out would not have released ME3 willingly with the ending the way it was.

    It's ok, we understand. EA, stock trading, budgets, fiscal years, etc. all played a factor in releasing an unfinished game. Yes, we know it was unfinished. It is glaringly obvious. From the blatant evidence of an 'Indoctrination' attempt to the incredible contradiction of pre-release statements by the dev team. I cannot believe that you or Mr. Hudson or even Mr. Walters would have said half the things you said if the ending that was released for Mass Effect 3 was always the originally intended ending.

    You guys are usually masters of double-speak and teasing, but the frankness of a lot of the pre-release comments can only be attributed to the ME3 dev team's passion for what they were doing. For the end result to be so blatantly contradictory to all of this points only to pressure outside the dev team to release the product.

    Mr. Woo has stated several times that we don't know the inner workings of the company and its interaction with EA, and are not going to. That's ok. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure things out.

    EA bought a company that was deep into development of an MMO that features, off the top, a massive licensing fee. A company also simply cannot fund at least 2 original IP's and a MMO without seeing a return on investment. With the success of ME2, I suspect that it was encouraged that BioWare release a game each year to meet fiscal requirements and shareholder demands that returns be gotten. We know that ME3 was originally scheduled for Nov 11 release and was pushed back, probably due to a lot of pleading on your part and perhaps Mr. Hudson because the team knew it simply wasn't going to be ready. Now, combine that with the poor reception and sales of DA2 and the fact that the release quarter for SWTOR had been pushed back several times already, you got a first-quarter 2012 release (or 4th quarter 2011 release depending on how EA does their budget) that you couldn't move again because once the decision to move ME3 was made, EA needed a Christmas release and SWTOR was pushed up and with DA3 off in the distance, there was nothing on the slate for a BioWare release this year.

    But in the end, there still wasn't enough time. The advertising division went into full gear and the team HAD to produce a game on time. Hence the ending.

    Now, you can't come out and say any of this because you work for a publicly traded company. If Casey Hudson were to come out and say he was sorry or that they were pressured to release a game before they were able to finish it, not only would EA's stock take a hit, but the company would probably file a massive lawsuit against Mr. Hudson and anybody even remotely connected to his words.

    So, we understand.

    But again, even through all the canned responses, NOT ONE ME3 dev team member has come out and defended the current ending(s) as they are showing their 'passion' for them. Mr. Woo has said that he had no problem with it, or liked it, or didn't mind it- which alone says enough despite my 'picking apart' his words.

    Look, we are a forgiving bunch, but the business model needs a bit of refinement if the BioWare team still wishes to produce a passionate and QUALITY product. Read: QUANTITY is not better.

    I believe your team can fix this. This is not precident setting, nor is it about "tampering with art" or damaging "artistic integrity", it is about finishing a passion product that you love and that we love with the ending it deserves.

Goodl luck at PAX.


I read through most of this thread, and this comment jumped out at me, so I'm quoting it for truth.

There's just one thing that I want to stress, and that is the money Bioware and EA would be losing if they don't provide us with what we want. I think it'd be fair to say that the 60,000 people that hate the ending wouldn't buy any dlc if a new ending isn't provided. So if the average vocal fan would be willing to spend up to 20 dollars on dlc or expansions, that would be a total of 1.2 million dollars (probably less since the consoles get a cut). They would be stupid to not pander to their fans. As I'm sure that people who don't care about the ending aren't big fans of the Mass Effect series, and therefore wouldn't buy all of the dlc.

#402
Cobra's_back

Cobra's_back
  • Members
  • 3 057 messages

Xellith wrote...

The quickly dropping prices of ME3 signify that its not a minority.


I agree. Hold the line.

#403
ragnorok87

ragnorok87
  • Members
  • 446 messages
HOLD THE LINE

#404
Persephone

Persephone
  • Members
  • 7 989 messages

Taboo-XX wrote...

FlyingCow371 wrote...

What're the odds that at pax they say something like "We won't talk about the ending because we want more people to have a chance to experience it first. Next question please."?


The people at Bioware again, aren't stupid. The sales numbers have shown that. They know the game isn't selling well because of adverse word of mouth which is far more powerful than anything a critic can say. The worst part about it is that it spreads quickly.



Eh, the game is selling quite well. The rankings show that.

But again, I hope PAX goes over well for everyone involved. Besides, the game not selling/selling badly is counter-productive, as nobody will buy tickets for the Titanic AFTER she hit the iceberg, "unsinkable" or not......

#405
howieloader

howieloader
  • Members
  • 193 messages
[/quote]

 nobody will buy tickets for the Titanic AFTER she hit the iceberg, "unsinkable" or not......

[/quote]

Great analogy, one is a ship that sank to the bottom of the ocean 100 years ago and is still there, the other is a video game released a month ago whose purchasers dissatisfaction can be remedied with a few lines of code... Totally alike...

#406
Persephone

Persephone
  • Members
  • 7 989 messages

howieloader wrote...


 nobody will buy tickets for the Titanic AFTER she hit the iceberg, "unsinkable" or not......


Great analogy, one is a ship that sank to the bottom of the ocean 100 years ago and is still there, the other is a video game released a month ago whose purchasers dissatisfaction can be remedied with a few lines of code... Totally alike...


The analogy being:

Nobody wants to fix something that's supposedly tanking. (If ME3 IS tanking due to oh so bad word of mouth, additional content will be hard to achieve. Look at DAII's scrapped expansion....)

Modifié par Persephone, 01 avril 2012 - 12:36 .


#407
Velocithon

Velocithon
  • Members
  • 1 419 messages
If Bioware released a complete fix for the ending, the publicity would be amazing. Fans would praise them and I'm sure sales would go up again and TONS of people would buy the DLC, and future DLC.

The ball is in their court.

#408
Persephone

Persephone
  • Members
  • 7 989 messages

Velocithon wrote...

If Bioware released a complete fix for the ending, the publicity would be amazing. Fans would praise them and I'm sure sales would go up again and TONS of people would buy the DLC, and future DLC.

The ball is in their court.


Sales aren't even down.

And if they were.... The review bombing and flaming cannot be undone at this point. Look at Amazon.... HUNDREDS of five star ratings would be needed to "fix" that broken, unfair rating. Or people going back to adjust their ratings. Not going to happen.

#409
howieloader

howieloader
  • Members
  • 193 messages

Persephone wrote...

If ME3 IS tanking due to oh so bad word of mouth, additional content will be hard to achieve. Look at DAII's scrapped expansion....


If the ending situation isn't remedied, additional customers will be hard to achieve....

#410
Persephone

Persephone
  • Members
  • 7 989 messages

howieloader wrote...

Persephone wrote...

If ME3 IS tanking due to oh so bad word of mouth, additional content will be hard to achieve. Look at DAII's scrapped expansion....


If the ending situation isn't remedied, additional customers will be hard to achieve....


Not my point at all. I get it, 5 minutes of gaming content condemns everything...no matter the brilliance of everything leading to that point.

The ending situation being remedied is one thing.

It will NOT , however, undo the damage done by the review bombing. People implied that it would.

Never mind that there are many different expectations, there isn't ONE solution we all want. Many want closure. Some just want the current endings explained. Some want the whole Citadel content rewritten & new endings added in its place etc. No matter WHAT option Bioware picks, they cannot win this one.

Modifié par Persephone, 01 avril 2012 - 01:05 .


#411
FS3D

FS3D
  • Members
  • 436 messages
I just want to add to my responses to Mr Gamble, that although many have stated the kind of ending they want, I haven't seen anyone state the critical factor that's important to me, and a great many others...

Our choices should mean something with respect to the outcome, and not just in terms of your EMS. That means we want to know what happens to the Krogan if we do (or do not) cure the Genophage. We want to know what happens to the Geth and the Quarians if we've managed to make peace. We want to know what happens to the Asari, Turians, Salarians and humans after the Reapers are stopped. We want to know how our squad is taking what has happened to Shep, dead or alive, at the end (stepping out of a ship in the middle of nowhere with a slight smile on your face like you don't have a care in the world is the worst and most insulting sight I can imagine after losing so much at the end, especially as we've just handed the Reapers a victory by blowing up the relays and stranding everyone).

From a technical POV, it might be easiest to go with the Indoctrination idea that everyone is speculating about. The ground-work is clearly laid out in the game, and I'm sure a creative way of getting it into the end of the game, such that we can continue playing and actually stop the reapers without screwing over the galaxy along with it. Besides, from a narrative POV, introducing a super-powerful pro/antagonist in the last 5 minutes of the game, and changing the end-goal of the whole trilogy in the final scenes, is jarring and doesn't work at all. The only way it can be made to work is if star-child was the Reapers trying to stop Shep from destroying them.

Maybe that's the plan... Maybe it's not... But destroying all the relays is depressing, and frankly there's a difference between my idea of profound and bittersweet, and an obnoxious 10th grade emo-punk's idea of profound and bittersweet...

And the difference is that mine allows for the Turians, Quarians and Krogans to survive and go home. The game would already have had a bitter-sweet and profound conclusion without the destruction of the relays, given how much life had already been lost throughout the galaxy thanks to the Reapers already.

#412
FS3D

FS3D
  • Members
  • 436 messages

Persephone wrote...

howieloader wrote...

Persephone wrote...

If ME3 IS tanking due to oh so bad word of mouth, additional content will be hard to achieve. Look at DAII's scrapped expansion....


If the ending situation isn't remedied, additional customers will be hard to achieve....


Not my point at all. I get it, 5 minutes of gaming content condemns everything...no matter the brilliance of everything leading to that point.

The ending situation being remedied is one thing.

It will NOT , however, undo the damage done by the review bombing. People implied that it would.

Never mind that there are many different expectations, there isn't ONE solution we all want. Many want closure. Some just want the current endings explained. Some want the whole Citadel content rewritten & new endings added in its place etc. No matter WHAT option Bioware picks, they cannot win this one.


Yes they can... Give us what was promised... CHOICE.

As for the review bombing... Frankly, they brought that one on themselves by releasing the game in the state that they did. A story-driven game with a broken ending is going to jar practically everyone who wants a decent story for the genre and theme of the series.

If people are one-star rating the game because of the ending, then that's their right, and that's a completely underastandable reaction given the importance of the story to the whole series.

This isn't just some linear storyline plot-based shooter whose sole point is shooting stuff... This is a shooter that established a unique and critical storytelling mechanism... And if the story is wrecked by an ending that has zero real choice, and as a consequence, people are giving negative reviews, that's their choice, their right, and the consequences are BioWare's to bear the burden of.

#413
Persephone

Persephone
  • Members
  • 7 989 messages

FS3D wrote...

Persephone wrote...

howieloader wrote...

Persephone wrote...

If ME3 IS tanking due to oh so bad word of mouth, additional content will be hard to achieve. Look at DAII's scrapped expansion....


If the ending situation isn't remedied, additional customers will be hard to achieve....


Not my point at all. I get it, 5 minutes of gaming content condemns everything...no matter the brilliance of everything leading to that point.

The ending situation being remedied is one thing.

It will NOT , however, undo the damage done by the review bombing. People implied that it would.

Never mind that there are many different expectations, there isn't ONE solution we all want. Many want closure. Some just want the current endings explained. Some want the whole Citadel content rewritten & new endings added in its place etc. No matter WHAT option Bioware picks, they cannot win this one.


Yes they can... Give us what was promised... CHOICE.

As for the review bombing... Frankly, they brought that one on themselves by releasing the game in the state that they did. A story-driven game with a broken ending is going to jar practically everyone who wants a decent story for the genre and theme of the series.

If people are one-star rating the game because of the ending, then that's their right, and that's a completely underastandable reaction given the importance of the story to the whole series.


There is no justification for review bombing. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch.

And fine, if you think that's understandable. I never denied it was anyone's right to give biased, unfair ratings. I'll still be disgusted by them.

#414
Ubergrog

Ubergrog
  • Members
  • 999 messages

Michael Gamble wrote...

Folks,

I don't represent whether or not EA funds us for any DLC content. EA supports us, don't worry about that. I help to manage some of that budget, yes, but my primary goal is to work with Casey (the executive producer) and the other creative visionaries around BioWare and create something we are proud of.

I can understand how Producers get a bad reputation sometimes - but most of us care passionately about the product we are putting out. Of course, having a financially successful game is important - but making something we are proud of, and something that's a very high quality is even more important to me.

More soon...And see, we still do read the forums :)


That is great, however, EA has such a bad track record and reputation...how can we not be skeptical? 

#415
FS3D

FS3D
  • Members
  • 436 messages

Persephone wrote...

FS3D wrote...

Persephone wrote...

howieloader wrote...

Persephone wrote...

If ME3 IS tanking due to oh so bad word of mouth, additional content will be hard to achieve. Look at DAII's scrapped expansion....


If the ending situation isn't remedied, additional customers will be hard to achieve....


Not my point at all. I get it, 5 minutes of gaming content condemns everything...no matter the brilliance of everything leading to that point.

The ending situation being remedied is one thing.

It will NOT , however, undo the damage done by the review bombing. People implied that it would.

Never mind that there are many different expectations, there isn't ONE solution we all want. Many want closure. Some just want the current endings explained. Some want the whole Citadel content rewritten & new endings added in its place etc. No matter WHAT option Bioware picks, they cannot win this one.


Yes they can... Give us what was promised... CHOICE.

As for the review bombing... Frankly, they brought that one on themselves by releasing the game in the state that they did. A story-driven game with a broken ending is going to jar practically everyone who wants a decent story for the genre and theme of the series.

If people are one-star rating the game because of the ending, then that's their right, and that's a completely underastandable reaction given the importance of the story to the whole series.


There is no justification for review bombing. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch.

And fine, if you think that's understandable. I never denied it was anyone's right to give biased, unfair ratings. I'll still be disgusted by them.




Be as disgusted as you like. When I submitted my review, I detailed exactly what my problem was.

Frankly it disgusts me that you think you have the right to be offended that people are giving their honest opinion about how the ending of the game ruined their whole experience.

I have to ask.

What gives you that right?

#416
VinHikaru

VinHikaru
  • Members
  • 25 messages
I encourage anyone planning to go up in front of the panel to ask questions to practice in front of a mirror or their friends first. Seriously, public speaking can sometimes cause unanticipated stress and anxiety. You don't want to stumble over your words, but of course you don't want to get carried away and start yelling at them.

Good luck to the people who are going! I have hopes that Bioware will address this issue and be open to fan feedback. As loyal customers, we need and deserve an explanation if Bioware wants to repair its relationship with its fans.

#417
PolyonymousC

PolyonymousC
  • Members
  • 83 messages
Good read.

#418
devSin

devSin
  • Members
  • 8 929 messages

Persephone wrote...

There is no justification for review bombing. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch.

If it's actually a case of review bombing, then you're correct.

Persephone wrote...

And fine, if you think that's understandable. I never denied it was anyone's right to give biased, unfair ratings. I'll still be disgusted by them.

Any person who played the game has the right to give it any rating they feel is appropriate. Even you. You most certainly do not get to determine what score is "fair" for a person with an honest opinion.

Don't conflate a mass of people who haven't even played the game or who want only to make a statement who leave invalid feedback with somebody who has a legitimate opinion.

And there are people who have acknowledged posting low scores for the game who wouldn't have issue with adjusting those scores if they felt their concerns were addressed. This won't address actual "review bombing", but it could help raise the scores somewhat.

#419
Persephone

Persephone
  • Members
  • 7 989 messages

FS3D wrote...

Be as disgusted as you like. When I submitted my review, I detailed exactly what my problem was.

Frankly it disgusts me that you think you have the right to be offended that people are giving their honest opinion about how the ending of the game ruined their whole experience.

I have to ask.

What gives you that right?


If you did that, you were not review bombing. Still, this game does not deserve one star ratings.

I don't give a damn about opinions. They are pretty common, everybody has got one. And to everybody, including entitled yours truly, theirs is the only right one.

Who? The same mythical being that gave people the right to review bomb a great game because "OMGZ! A man hits on my male Shep, OH NOES!" or because of supposedly awful endings. I review the WHOLE product when I review something. Not 5 minutes. Not ten minutes. ALL of it. And I don't think I need to explain why homophobia is a bad thing.

#420
Persephone

Persephone
  • Members
  • 7 989 messages

devSin wrote...
You most certainly do not get to determine what score is "fair" for a person with an honest opinion.

Don't conflate a mass of people who haven't even played the game or who want only to make a statement who leave invalid feedback with somebody who has a legitimate opinion.

And there are people who have acknowledged posting low scores for the game who wouldn't have issue with adjusting those scores if they felt their concerns were addressed. This won't address actual "review bombing", but it could help raise the scores somewhat.


Everybody makes up their own mind. And I don't know about "honest opinions". In MY opinion one star ratings for that game are neither fair nor justified.

I'll believe it when I see them being adjusted. I'm willing to bet it won't happen. I'll happily be proven wrong.

#421
devSin

devSin
  • Members
  • 8 929 messages

Persephone wrote...

Everybody makes up their own mind. And I don't know about "honest opinions". In MY opinion one star ratings for that game are neither fair nor justified.

And in my opinion, perfect scores are neither fair nor justified.

I don't begrudge anybody the right to leave them, however. If they truly believe that score is appropriate, then it is valid.

And I do not pass judgment on all people who leave perfect scores by calling them disgusting.

#422
FS3D

FS3D
  • Members
  • 436 messages

Persephone wrote...

FS3D wrote...

Be as disgusted as you like. When I submitted my review, I detailed exactly what my problem was.

Frankly it disgusts me that you think you have the right to be offended that people are giving their honest opinion about how the ending of the game ruined their whole experience.

I have to ask.

What gives you that right?


If you did that, you were not review bombing. Still, this game does not deserve one star ratings.

I don't give a damn about opinions. They are pretty common, everybody has got one. And to everybody, including entitled yours truly, theirs is the only right one.

Who? The same mythical being that gave people the right to review bomb a great game because "OMGZ! A man hits on my male Shep, OH NOES!" or because of supposedly awful endings. I review the WHOLE product when I review something. Not 5 minutes. Not ten minutes. ALL of it. And I don't think I need to explain why homophobia is a bad thing.


I don't know why we're on the subject of homophobia. I don't see any problem providing options for same sex romances in games if that's what people want. I never play those options as they don't interest me, but I'd never object to them.

And the story is the most critical part of the whole product, as far as I'm concerned.

But you still don't have that right... Any more than I have the right to say that my opinion on the game is the only right one.

I have strong opinions about the game's ending, ans I'm vocal about them here... But I'm not disgusted by people giving their own, differing opinion on the ending.

I AM disgusted, however, by people who think they can pass judgment on others just because they don't like them voting down a product for "spurious" reasons... Which is essentially what you have done here.

#423
FS3D

FS3D
  • Members
  • 436 messages

Persephone wrote...

devSin wrote...
You most certainly do not get to determine what score is "fair" for a person with an honest opinion.

Don't conflate a mass of people who haven't even played the game or who want only to make a statement who leave invalid feedback with somebody who has a legitimate opinion.

And there are people who have acknowledged posting low scores for the game who wouldn't have issue with adjusting those scores if they felt their concerns were addressed. This won't address actual "review bombing", but it could help raise the scores somewhat.


Everybody makes up their own mind. And I don't know about "honest opinions". In MY opinion one star ratings for that game are neither fair nor justified.

I'll believe it when I see them being adjusted. I'm willing to bet it won't happen. I'll happily be proven wrong.


I'm calling you out on this one. Frankly I don't believe it based on the statements you have just made over the last 20 minutes alone.

#424
Persephone

Persephone
  • Members
  • 7 989 messages

FS3D wrote...

I don't know why we're on the subject of homophobia. I don't see any problem providing options for same sex romances in games if that's what people want. I never play those options as they don't interest me, but I'd never object to them.

And the story is the most critical part of the whole product, as far as I'm concerned.

But you still don't have that right... Any more than I have the right to say that my opinion on the game is the only right one.

I have strong opinions about the game's ending, ans I'm vocal about them here... But I'm not disgusted by people giving their own, differing opinion on the ending.

I AM disgusted, however, by people who think they can pass judgment on others just because they don't like them voting down a product for "spurious" reasons... Which is essentially what you have done here.


Homophobia was the major reason for the initial review bombing.

Yes, the story IS the most critical part of the product, I agree.

I am not entirely satisfied with the endings myself. I have no problem with the endings being criticized.

What I have a problem with is bashing the ENTIRE game because of the endings. I try to review the ENTIRE game, not just the endings. Some have done separate reviews for the game itself AND then the endings. That makes more sense to me and it's more balanced in the long run.

#425
Persephone

Persephone
  • Members
  • 7 989 messages

FS3D wrote...

Persephone wrote...

devSin wrote...
You most certainly do not get to determine what score is "fair" for a person with an honest opinion.

Don't conflate a mass of people who haven't even played the game or who want only to make a statement who leave invalid feedback with somebody who has a legitimate opinion.

And there are people who have acknowledged posting low scores for the game who wouldn't have issue with adjusting those scores if they felt their concerns were addressed. This won't address actual "review bombing", but it could help raise the scores somewhat.


Everybody makes up their own mind. And I don't know about "honest opinions". In MY opinion one star ratings for that game are neither fair nor justified.

I'll believe it when I see them being adjusted. I'm willing to bet it won't happen. I'll happily be proven wrong.


I'm calling you out on this one. Frankly I don't believe it based on the statements you have just made over the last 20 minutes alone.


Don't believe what exactly?