179 réponses à ce sujet

[Garlador]

Those who do not remember their history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

[Eterna]

No Because Mass Effect 3 isn't a soft drink.

And the game isn't bad.

[wantedman dan]

Eterna5 wrote...

No Because Mass Effect 3 isn't a soft drink.

And the game isn't bad.

I'm glad you have such a complex cognitive process.

[wantedman dan]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

That's a pretty decent comparison, but many companies have their fiascos. The U.S. Military is actually going through one right now with it's new M855A1 "Green" ammo. Kind of a random note, but when you boost something so high with promos, it really hits hard when the bottom falls out of it.

True, but rarely does something define a generation through its monumental status, like the New Coke fiasco.

[Liber320]

wantedman dan wrote...

Dartbeast54q wrote...

someone should tweet masseffect asking if they remember new coke.

good read and as others have mentioned, history always finds a way to repeat itself.

Just did, thanks for the idea.

I will patiently await their non-response

Modifié par Liber320, 30 mars 2012 - 03:40 .

[wantedman dan]

Liber320 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Dartbeast54q wrote...

someone should tweet masseffect asking if they remember new coke.

good read and as others have mentioned, history always finds a way to repeat itself.

Just did, thanks for the idea.

I will patiently await their non-response

Every second that passes brings us one step closer. lol

[VigilancePress]

Amusingly, I was around for the Coke thing... and I *liked* New Coke.

[wantedman dan]

VigilancePress wrote...

Amusingly, I was around for the Coke thing... and I *liked* New Coke.

Yeah I heard it had a following; I'm more so discussing the PR disaster that it became.

[ShdwFox7]

Raven4030-2 wrote...

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice the parallel.

Oh but your not. But I think the OP is one of the few to bring more attention to it however

[wantedman dan]

ShdwFox7 wrote...

Raven4030-2 wrote...

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice the parallel.

Oh but your not. But I think the OP is one of the few to bring more attention to it however

I haven't been here for very long, but I did appear shortly after the release of the game and I haven't seen any mention of it.

[DeadLetterBox]

I hated new Coke. Partly because I didn't like the way it tasted, and partly because my mother went insane. She started driving an hour and a half to podunk towns that hadn't sold all of their old coke yet. Then they didn't have old coke either, and that was when things truly got bad.

When did they stop calling it Coca Cola classic, anyway? I didn't notice.

The parallels are not just in marketing, although that's obviously part of it. Somebody in a company gets an idea and thinks it's totally awesome, decides to push that idea through, and decides that marketing can handle the rest. Old customers can leave, because new customers will fill in the gap.

Thing is, new Coke was made to taste more like Pepsi. People who liked Pepsi taste tested with positive results, but when they went to the store they just kept buying Pepsi.

So, if you have a video game that is being told as a hero's journey story, then you decide at the end to make it all weird sci-fi where the hero's journey bit gets lost in the shuffle, your longtime fans will wonder what happened to the product they were used to, and your new fans will think it's neat, maybe, then they'll go buy a final fantasy game.

[wantedman dan]

DeadLetterBox wrote...

I hated new Coke. Partly because I didn't like the way it tasted, and partly because my mother went insane. She started driving an hour and a half to podunk towns that hadn't sold all of their old coke yet. Then they didn't have old coke either, and that was when things truly got bad.

When did they stop calling it Coca Cola classic, anyway? I didn't notice.

The parallels are not just in marketing, although that's obviously part of it. Somebody in a company gets an idea and thinks it's totally awesome, decides to push that idea through, and decides that marketing can handle the rest. Old customers can leave, because new customers will fill in the gap.

Thing is, new Coke was made to taste more like Pepsi. People who liked Pepsi taste tested with positive results, but when they went to the store they just kept buying Pepsi.

So, if you have a video game that is being told as a hero's journey story, then you decide at the end to make it all weird sci-fi where the hero's journey bit gets lost in the shuffle, your longtime fans will wonder what happened to the product they were used to, and your new fans will think it's neat, maybe, then they'll go buy a final fantasy game.

I believe in '09.

I do, however, like your analogies. Good stuff.

[lordofdogtown19]

We can hope. Coke is a much bigger company than Bioware too, and to admit they were wrong shows Bioware can do it too

[wantedman dan]

lordofdogtown19 wrote...

We can hope. Coke is a much bigger company than Bioware too, and to admit they were wrong shows Bioware can do it too

Exactly. I hinted at that in the end, there, with the whole "artistic integrity" being nonsense thing.

[FortitudeSon]

Hadn't made the connection until now, but you absolutely nailed it.  Even if this isn't necessarily the "new coke" of the decade or even of entertainment, it will certainly be remembered as such in the realm of video gaming.  
The interesting thing is just how fast this has happened, largely due to the real-time nature of the internet driven world.  

In particular notice the point that the real flaw with new coke was how the company failed to recognize the connection their more loyal customers felt to the original formula.  This is also a very key theme with ME3.  Bioware seems to have forgotten or underestimated just how much of a connection we had with our characters, our crew, and our individual stories.  

In a way, they should feel complimented that they were able to create such devotion to their original story and gameplay.  It was also pointed out in this video, but people were reading the emails written by crew members in shadow broker and were roped in by them... emails...little boxes of text.  The heart of Mass Effect was our decisions, our relationships with our crew, and our ownership of our own Shepards.  All three should have crescendoed in saga's ending.

Modifié par FortitudeSon, 30 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[wantedman dan]

FortitudeSon wrote...

Hadn't made the connection until now, but you absolutely nailed it.  Even if this isn't necessarily the "new coke" of the decade or even of entertainment, it will certainly be remembered as such in the realm of video gaming.  
The interesting thing is just how fast this has happened, largely due to the real-time nature of the internet driven world.  

In particular notice the point that the real flaw with new coke was how the company failed to recognize the connection their more loyal customers felt to the original formula.  This is also a very key theme with ME3.  Bioware seems to have forgotten or underestimated just how much of a connection we had with our characters, our crew, and our individual stories.  

In a way, they should feel complimented that they were able to create such devotion to their original story and gameplay.  It was also pointed out in this video, but people were reading the emails written by crew members in shadow broker and were roped in by them... emails...little boxes of text.  The heart of Mass Effect was our decisions, our relationships with our crew, and our ownership of our own Shepards.  All three should have crescendoed in saga's ending.

Thank you.

It all has to do with alienating your core constituency.

[wantedman dan]

Mkay, last bump before bed.

[BostonVamp]

I'm old enought to remember the New Coke fiasco and I thought of it immediately when this ME 3 ending disaster hit. Glad to see I'm not the only one who recognized this.

[wantedman dan]

Good morning bump

[wantedman dan]

Shameless promotion

[Njald]

There are some similarities but there are a bunch of differences as well. It could serve as an interesting anecdote that even if you,as producer, Think your product is superior and even if you get praised for it, the bottom line is what the consumers want is what matters.
Don't try to rationalize or scrutinize the consumers motives and their inability to enjoy the product. And Do Not tell your consumers they are stupid and wrong.
Just make a product the consumers are willing to pay for. Fix products that can be fixed.

Bioware have it easier than most since they have already managed to listen to feedback in development before. They have managed to walk the fine line between giving the fans what they like and not fall in the trap of giving the fans what the fans "think" they like. Because fans might be wrong when they tell a developer what they (the fans) think will be the best game/way to handle the game. But they are NEVER wrong when they state "we don't want to spend our money on this". That's all that matters. And the people who think anyone disliking the ending is uninformed or wrong are clearly more prone to accept whatever Bioware puts out so their money wouldn't be lost. They are already on Biowares side and being crazy loyal to a brand that failed to produce the quality it has before.

Modifié par Njald, 30 mars 2012 - 05:10 .

[wantedman dan]

Njald wrote...

There are some similarities but there are a bunch of differences as well. It could serve as an interesting anecdote that even if you,as producer, Think your product is superior and even if you get praised for it, the bottom line is what the consumers want is what matters.
Don't try to rationalize or scrutinize the consumers motives and their inability to enjoy the product. And Do Not tell your consumers they are stupid and wrong.
Just make a product the consumers are willing to pay for. Fix products that can be fixed.

Bioware have it easier than most since they have already managed to listen to feedback in development before. They have managed to walk the fine line between giving the fans what they like and not fall in the trap of giving the fans what the fans "think" they like. Because fans might be wrong when they tell a developer what they (the fans) think will be the best game/way to handle the game. But they are NEVER wrong when they state "we don't want to spend our money on this". That's all that matters. And the people who think anyone disliking the ending is uninformed or wrong are clearly more prone to accept whatever Bioware puts out so their money wouldn't be lost. They are already on Biowares side and being crazy loyal to a brand that failed to produce the quality it has before.

Agreed, there are some differences, but as I've said, the similarities are too grand to not mention.

Bioware screwed the pooch on this one, no doubt, and I think their "loyal" fanbase is dwindling.

[Ukjack44]

One thing I find annoying is how people say Bioware screws its customers. We should really be picking apart the Executives on the Mass Effect team, seeing as the majority of the Bioware crew working on Mass Effect are concerned about their work and their fans. Whereas the top dogs see "loyal fans" as a guaranteed source of income. Its all a game of money. To these executives its all about dollars and dead lines.

[wantedman dan]

Ukjack44 wrote...

One thing I find annoying is how people say Bioware screws its customers. We should really be picking apart the Executives on the Mass Effect team, seeing as the majority of the Bioware crew working on Mass Effect are concerned about their work and their fans. Whereas the top dogs see "loyal fans" as a guaranteed source of income. Its all a game of money. To these executives its all about dollars and dead lines.

Your premise is true, but overall Bioware reflects the decision of the upper management.

[wantedman dan]

bump?