214 réponses à ce sujet

[Wabajakka]

No one was satisfied when the word "clarification" was used.

[Bob3terd]

because they havent fixed it yet?

[Jenonax]

Tyrzun wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Grateful?

I paid money for a decent ending to my favourite franchise why should I be grateful for them fixing their own mistake? Which Ray said they weren't doing by the way.

People who say we should be grateful for it or say we are entitled for asking are dangerous. Bioware is not your friend! They are a company! The fans and Bioware had an agreement, they'd make us a coherent ending to the trilogy and we'd pay them a lot of money for it. We paid the money they didn't deliver.

They haven't said they're fixing it, they said they're clarifying it which is decidedly not fixing the problem.

So we'll keep voicing our concerns, civilly, because the worst thing we can do right now is go silent.

Clarifying IS fixing the problem...if things are clarified, the plot holes may be covered. And really, the ending plot holes are CAUSED BY the lack of clarity.

The problem with the ending is the Catalyst and more specifically where its placed.  Placing a brand new character and concept into the ending where everything is supposed to be being wrapped up is wholey inappropriate.  My twelve year old sister knows not to do this, for professional writers to do this is unforgiveable.  If I put that to my professor he'd send it straight back to me with red lines through it and fail me.  

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you have to explain a joke you've just told, then it wasn't funny in the first place.  Whatever message we were supposed to get from the Catalyst failed to come across.

So no, paving over the plot holes by condescendingly explaining to us five year olds who don't "get it" is not fixing the problem.  The problem is the Catalyst and it has to go.

Wrong, its because of not enough Catalyst....the problem is that Bioware limited his role and cut his explanation of the Reapers down, see the Final Hours doc.

Did you even read what I wrote?

His placing is a fiction writing cardinal sin.  Its not an option, you just can't do it, placing a new concept that the reader just has to accept five minutes before the end is not acceptable.  If the Cataylst was to work as the primary antagonist which he turned out to be he should have been in it from the beginning.

Look at the problems five minutes has caused the entire trilogy, no amount of clarification is going to fix that

You need to read what I wrote.  You're refusing to see the ending.  The Catalyst is Harbinger.  

Again, all books and movies  that fade to black and come back... leave you major plot holes or character acting out of character to WARN YOU it's not the real world.  Those "plot holes" that the Catalyst makes up were so you could realize AGAIN it was lies, like magically not having your armor on anymore and infinite ammo.  <---- they were your first major clues of "Dorthy, you aren't in Kansas."

I believe in the IT, its my headcannon atm.  If they go with this then its not exactly clarification its an ending expansion.  The clarification I'm arguing against is what I fear is going to happen.  That we get a twenty mintute text epilogue explaining what a big coward Joker is and trying to exlplain how space magic turned everyone into terminators.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough

[gmdinmd]

txgoldrush wrote...

Seriously......

It's because they are still teasing us with not any information at all, and because the theory/position groups are now facing off with each other rather than with BioWare.  It boils down to:

1.  being told there are, in fact, answers

2.  they are, in fact, tell us
3.   soon ...   

In the age of instant answers, being forced to wait is near unbearable.  I could find the length and name of the longest river in Africa in under 5 minutes, so the idea of unknowns in the days of script leaks, someone going off the reservation, insider information, etc etc .. its a bit ... difficult for people to process. 
Feel like I'm dealing with Blizzard .... 

[Tacosauced]

nwj94 wrote...

I would love to see where they said their fixing the ending, I think your reading to far into Ray's statement.  Until we see DLC the Retake movement will continue to politely restate our complaints.

The pro-enders probably feel the same way about this post as the Retake movement feels when we see someone makeing personal attacks on Bioware and raging in general.  Don't judge thousands by the actions of a few, reguardless of what side your on in this debate.

Now I understand they didn't exactly say they were "Fixing" it, but they did say they were working on doing something towards addressing our concerns and there are quite a few people still bashing them. It makes me sad to see people acting like this about the situation. I understand completely why they are upset because I am as well... I just don't like all the negativity. 

[JulienJaden]

The problem is that the statements all go in the direction of "clarification". That is not what we want.

We 'understand' the ending, but that doesn't change the fact that they are bad writing. I'm keeping up my pressure until BioWare releases a statement that "yes, we are changing the endings; we're working on implementing the variety of endings we promised before release right now; we're terribly sorry about this whole mess."

That is what I want to hear and I feel absolutely justified to get a refund, if they stick with "clarification" because then, they obviously weren't listening at all.

[Hydralysk]

Tyrzun wrote...

You need to read what I wrote.  You're refusing to see the ending.  The Catalyst is Harbinger.  

Again, all books and movies  that fade to black and come back... leave you major plot holes or character acting out of character to WARN YOU it's not the real world.  Those "plot holes" that the Catalyst makes up were so you could realize AGAIN it was lies, like magically not having your armor on anymore and infinite ammo.  <---- they were your first major clues of "Dorthy, you aren't in Kansas."

Oh god...more indoc theory proponents. Look it's called a theory because there is no clear evidence that it's the ending bioware intended. Until Bioware comes out and says "Oh yeah, you guys figured it out that's totally what happened, here's the rest of the ending" then it's not "refusing to see the ending" it's just "refusing to see the ending the exact same way you do". Until Bioware confirms indoc theory, it holds as much weight as any other fanfic.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 29 mars 2012 - 08:06 .

[Jenonax]

*removed*

Modifié par Jenonax, 29 mars 2012 - 08:06 .

[Manton-X2]

Tacosauced wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Shut up and be grateful and stop whining.....

Thank you. You are practically taking the words from my lips. I go around the forums and I see all this negativity and it hurts me that so many people who love Mass Effect and BioWare could just be this pessimistic about the ending.  So what? It was a poor ending and didn't live up to expectations. At least BioWare is taking the time to do what they can to address our concerns. You don't need to be forceful or practically say they should burn in hell. They're working their butts off for us and that's what matters. 

So, what exactly is it that they're doing that is addressing our concerns?  Because as far as I can see so far, it's lip service until something actually comes out.  I'm sorry, but my trust in Bioware is in short supply right now.  Especially after things that were specifically said about the endings made a little more than a month before launch that proved to be 100% false.

And just so we get this right, Bioware doesn't work their butts off for -us-.  Bioware works their butts off for the money in our wallets.  That's the relationship between a company and its customers (which is what we are, not fans .. not friends .. customers).  They excelled for 99% of this franchise (one that I love dearly) and half-assed the ending ... why shouldn't I be annoyed at that?  It's safe to say that with an ending worthy of this game, they would have gone down as having one of the most epic and amazing trilogies in the history of SciFi regardless of what medium you're talking about.  Now, the majority of fans hate, dislike or feel the ending was "alright" with the minority "loving it".   And that taints the entire thing.  I am so disappointed in BW for that ...

As someone who loves ME, how are you ok with that?

[FJVP]

How do you even know that what they are trying to do will make the endings better? For all we know it could only make things worse. Only after I see the results I may stop feeling angered about them. And btw most people are not whining, they're addressing their problems with the endings in a detailed and civil manner. What you're doing, though, IS whining.

Modifié par FJVP, 29 mars 2012 - 08:07 .

[Nelzeben]

There are some plot holes you can't just fix by "explaining" them. For example: the crew members you took with you suddenly being on the Normandy. The Normandy fleeing the battle.

I assume they'll come up with some half-assed explanations, ignore the most glaring problems and all that still leaves us with a magical space god whose ludicrous opinion (and that's all his logic is) you can't even challenge.

I'd say most people are waiting for a result before they stop complaining.

[Zokopops]

As if they havent lied to us before...

[NubXL]

DJBare wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
Seriously......
Be grateful they are going to fix the ending. You should be THANKING Bioware,

I'll thank them when I see words turned into results and reality, fair enough?

This.

Some people turn blind and ignorantly happy the moment a claim is made. Others would like to actually see results first. txgoldrush is the former. The "whiners" are the latter.

[Iwillbeback]

I'm sorry did they fix the endings already?

[Jackal7713]

Really how hard is it to say "yes we are fixing the issues, more to follow."

[InfiniteDemise]

txgoldrush wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

Because they haven't said they're going to fix the ending, despite what media sites have been claiming. Just some vague allusions to 'clarification' and 'closure' which doesn't actually sound like they are fixing the ending issues, just adding a 3 minute epilogue and maybe some deleted scenes.

We want an ending(s) that addresses the glaring plot holes and delivers on the promises made to us prerelease (i.e. vastly different endings that reflect the choices you've made during the series). Until they tell us just what exactly they are doing about this ending debacle then they haven't really told us anything.

One little scene and a couple of dailogue lines can FIX plot holes.

The current ending cannot be fixed.Tape isn't going to fixed a cracked engine block. You gotta replace that crap.

[Tyrzun]

Arcian wrote...

So many BioWare white knights in such a small thread.

Listen, nothing they do will ever make up for the endings. As it happens, that's also what they WILL do - nothing. They will try to explain the endings, but the endings were horribly written in the first place, meaning every explanation they give isn't going to solve the problem.

What you really said is nothing they say will ever suit you.  That seems a lot like prejudice - an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
They still must let us finish the fight and see how all of our choices played out, but the ending is brilliant.  Finaly attempt to trick the player.  What they didn't count on is the player refusing to believe they were tricked into making the wrong choice once it was explained to them.  A lot of people get "angry" when this ill perceived insult of their intelligence happens.  Bioware didn't count on that.  They expected people to go "DANG!  I messed up!  You got me Bioware.  Even though you warned me and warned me I still fell for Harbingers trick.  Great job!"  

Bioware seriously overestimated people willingness to READ their codex and learn what and how indoctrination happens...  They gave the gamer too much credit.

STILL, they didn't deliver our FULL ending that shows all of our choices and consequences.  They must still make amends for that.

Modifié par Tyrzun, 29 mars 2012 - 08:14 .

[Dark Specie]

The winning will stop once we see actual results.

Plus, their statements so far have been rather vauge/unsatisfying: They're sating they're going to "clarify things". But clarification isn't what people have been asking for (implying they may not really be listening)...

[Tyrzun]

Nelzeben wrote...

There are some plot holes you can't just fix by "explaining" them. For example: the crew members you took with you suddenly being on the Normandy. The Normandy fleeing the battle.

I assume they'll come up with some half-assed explanations, ignore the most glaring problems and all that still leaves us with a magical space god whose ludicrous opinion (and that's all his logic is) you can't even challenge.

I'd say most people are waiting for a result before they stop complaining.

That was all in your mind.

Once you accept that you'll see how clear the ending is.  But you refuse... because your not looking for truth.  

YOU can challenge him by saying no the reapers need to die and THEN you wake up back in London.  You obviously were NOT ever on the Citadel.  Seriously...

[RedTail F22]

@OP

For a sec just forget whether either of us are for or against the ending.

Why do you start these threads where you come out and insult so many people? If you want to ask a question thats fine but whynot make it polite and civil? This way more people will be willing to actually discuss it rather than feel they need to defend themselves.

This only works though if your actually curious and not just trying to troll.

[Mev186]

We are still "whining" because Bioware is sending some very wrong signals. They keep hinting that any change will seek to "clarify" the ending. The fact of the matter is, the entire ending is broken. If you have to explain why it should work then it doesn't work at all. The entire ending needs to be re-written and re-done.

[zarnk567]

They said "clarification" as for what that means..... who knows?

[Tacosauced]

Manton-X2 wrote...

So, what exactly is it that they're doing that is addressing our concerns?  Because as far as I can see so far, it's lip service until something actually comes out.  I'm sorry, but my trust in Bioware is in short supply right now.  Especially after things that were specifically said about the endings made a little more than a month before launch that proved to be 100% false.

And just so we get this right, Bioware doesn't work their butts off for -us-.  Bioware works their butts off for the money in our wallets.  That's the relationship between a company and its customers (which is what we are, not fans .. not friends .. customers).  They excelled for 99% of this franchise (one that I love dearly) and half-assed the ending ... why shouldn't I be annoyed at that?  It's safe to say that with an ending worthy of this game, they would have gone down as having one of the most epic and amazing trilogies in the history of SciFi regardless of what medium you're talking about.  Now, the majority of fans hate, dislike or feel the ending was "alright" with the minority "loving it".   And that taints the entire thing.  I am so disappointed in BW for that ...

As someone who loves ME, how are you ok with that?

Believe me, I wasn't happy about the ending either. It disappointed me as well, but because my brain is weird, I figured, "Hey. I hope BioWare does something about this. I see all these people rising up against them. Maybe that will convince them! :lol:" But as I lurked the forums I began to see more and more negativity.

The optimism that my brain holds true just couldn't comprehend that so many people were being so mean. I'm sorry if I came out a bit strong in the beginning. I just don't like so many people bashing on them because they created one of my favorite game franchises of all time. Sigh. I just need to focus. I don't even know why I'm saying these things... I'm normally a lurker on forums.

[Militarized]

Because they really are that bad?

And we don't know what they're doing yet.