214 réponses à ce sujet

[Burnsie86]

I will accept nothing short of a total retcon that wipes that abysmal starchild out of existence.

[txgoldrush]

Burnsie86 wrote...

I will accept nothing short of a total retcon that wipes that abysmal starchild out of existence.

Then prepare to be disappointed.

[txgoldrush]

Whybother wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

And judging by the title of the thread i'm guessing your posing as a retaker but are really pro-ending.

or that I am in the smart moderate position where I respect what the storytellers were trying to portray but have a problem with how they portray it.

It seems retakers want a happy ending where their Shep and his or her LI ride of into the galaxy with the mass relays still on, destroying any themes the series had. Bioware is just not going to do this....and the very notion that their has to have a happy ending to make choices matter has been proven false again and again. Hell, The Witcher 2 is going to prove it wrong once again April 17th.

Stop with the strawman arguments.  People want an ending that makes coherent sense, it doesn't have to be a "happy" ending.

The ending as created has so many logical inconsistencies ("why can't I just shut the Reapers down but not the Geth? how come I CAN just control the Reapers but not the geth? how does this synthesis thing work?") that it is broken.

Which can be fixed through clarification and a few more lines of dialogue.

[Xandax]

txgoldrush wrote...

Whybother wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

And judging by the title of the thread i'm guessing your posing as a retaker but are really pro-ending.

or that I am in the smart moderate position where I respect what the storytellers were trying to portray but have a problem with how they portray it.

It seems retakers want a happy ending where their Shep and his or her LI ride of into the galaxy with the mass relays still on, destroying any themes the series had. Bioware is just not going to do this....and the very notion that their has to have a happy ending to make choices matter has been proven false again and again. Hell, The Witcher 2 is going to prove it wrong once again April 17th.

Stop with the strawman arguments.  People want an ending that makes coherent sense, it doesn't have to be a "happy" ending.

The ending as created has so many logical inconsistencies ("why can't I just shut the Reapers down but not the Geth? how come I CAN just control the Reapers but not the geth? how does this synthesis thing work?") that it is broken.

Which can be fixed through clarification and a few more lines of dialogue.

Nope, it can't.

Bioware will likely try, but .... it really can't.


And I do agree somewhat with your thread title. I do wonder why you still whine.

Modifié par Xandax, 30 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[Direwolf0294]

I just want a happy ending, I don't care if it's coherent or not. Sadly it looks as if BioWare is against that because happy endings aren't deep and artsy enough. Everythings got to be sad and depressing else it sucks.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

txgoldrush wrote...

Seriously......

Be grateful they are going to fix the ending. You should be THANKING Bioware, not continue bashing them.

Lets look back.....Fallout 2 was rushed with a third of the game missing and the game a broken mess. It was never fixed. Fans had to fix it. A huge chunk of the game was even restored, including three towns.

Ultima IX was released as not only a busted broken mess, but with plot contradictions millions of times worse than ME3's ending, along with poor general writing. Never got fixed, got an off the record patch, and got  a fan dfialogue mod later.

Arcanum had to be fixed by fans with a restoration mod.

KOTOR II had many plot holes and a very poor ending because it was rushed out the door. LucasArts never let Obsdian fix it, fans had to. It now can stand with or even surpass the first game.

At least, ME3 is going to get an ending fix, unlike those games where fans had to do it.

Shut up and be grateful and stop whining.....

No it is not getting an ending fix, it is getting silver tongued rhetoric, designed to convince you to like the ending, and you get to pay for it to boot.

[txgoldrush]

Xandax wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Whybother wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

And judging by the title of the thread i'm guessing your posing as a retaker but are really pro-ending.

or that I am in the smart moderate position where I respect what the storytellers were trying to portray but have a problem with how they portray it.

It seems retakers want a happy ending where their Shep and his or her LI ride of into the galaxy with the mass relays still on, destroying any themes the series had. Bioware is just not going to do this....and the very notion that their has to have a happy ending to make choices matter has been proven false again and again. Hell, The Witcher 2 is going to prove it wrong once again April 17th.

Stop with the strawman arguments.  People want an ending that makes coherent sense, it doesn't have to be a "happy" ending.

The ending as created has so many logical inconsistencies ("why can't I just shut the Reapers down but not the Geth? how come I CAN just control the Reapers but not the geth? how does this synthesis thing work?") that it is broken.

Which can be fixed through clarification and a few more lines of dialogue.

Nope, it can't.

Bioware will likely try, but .... it really can't.


And I do agree somewhat with your thread title. I do wonder why you still whine.

Kingdom of Heaven Directors cut fixed a massive plothole of the regular version in just one sentence of dialogue. It CAN be done.

[iotha1804]

Because no matter how civil, polite, calm, or hell, *constructive* we are, to some eyes we are whining. I guess that's human nature.

[Misterdde45000]

I hardly see how they could just fix a problem that is relative to the lack of choices just by adding lines :/

Beside we still don't know if they are actually planning anything.

You seems kind of... resonable. So why are you insulting us like that ? Maybe some people deserve it, but they are hardly representing 2% of the retake mouvement. If we where to do the same, we would be throwing out of the window :/

[Whybother]

txgoldrush wrote...

Which can be fixed through clarification and a few more lines of dialogue.

OK, explain synthesis.  How does it work, what does it actually do.  In a... line or two of dialogue.

Using the science that we have in the ME universe, of course.  No inventing "mass effect can people into robots" because ME fields have never bee shown to do that.

[Whybother]

txgoldrush wrote...
Kingdom of Heaven Directors cut fixed a massive plothole of the regular version in just one sentence of dialogue. It CAN be done.

If it can, more power to them, but this isn't exactly a "who killed the chauffeur in 'The Big Sleep'" plothole.

[txgoldrush]

Misterdde45000 wrote...

I hardly see how they could just fix a problem that is relative to the lack of choices just by adding lines :/

Beside we still don't know if they are actually planning anything.

You seems kind of... resonable. So why are you insulting us like that ? Maybe some people deserve it, but they are hardly representing 2% of the retake mouvement. If we where to do the same, we would be throwing out of the window :/

Add scenes and add an epilogue....there, choices matter.

"Adding lines" is to clarify many plot points with the Catalyst.

[txgoldrush]

Whybother wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
Kingdom of Heaven Directors cut fixed a massive plothole of the regular version in just one sentence of dialogue. It CAN be done.

If it can, more power to them, but this isn't exactly a "who killed the chauffeur in 'The Big Sleep'" plothole.

Niether was KoH's plothole that got fixed.

[Holoe4]

hel:l is such a strong word...

[Sangheili_1337]

Bioware has lied several times during ME 3's development and after its release. They have to earn the fan's trust now.

[Sharn01]

They said they are looking into the possibility of maybe, if they can find a way to do it, adding to the current ending to make things more clear. There apparently where not any plot holes, we are just to blind to see how perfect the ending was.

[Whybother]

Whybother wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Which can be fixed through clarification and a few more lines of dialogue.

OK, explain synthesis.  How does it work, what does it actually do.  In a... line or two of dialogue.

Using the science that we have in the ME universe, of course.  No inventing "mass effect can people into robots" because ME fields have never bee shown to do that.

[txgoldrush]

Whybother wrote...

Whybother wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Which can be fixed through clarification and a few more lines of dialogue.

OK, explain synthesis.  How does it work, what does it actually do.  In a... line or two of dialogue.

Using the science that we have in the ME universe, of course.  No inventing "mass effect can people into robots" because ME fields have never bee shown to do that.

They already explained it on Catalyst's side...however, the Crucible itself is an unknown throughout the story, they do not know how it works.

[txgoldrush]

Sharn01 wrote...

They said they are looking into the possibility of maybe, if they can find a way to do it, adding to the current ending to make things more clear. There apparently where not any plot holes, we are just to blind to see how perfect the ending was.

No, Bioware is already doing it, announcement April.

[MoSa09]

txgoldrush wrote...

1. Nevermind the endings problem IS A LACK OF CLARIFICATION AND CLOSURE!!!!!!

uhhm, no. If that is your issue with the ending, thats fine with me. But its not mine. And just keep shouting your opinion as fact and call others who disagree whiny isn't going to make this any better.

I did miss closure in the end, a lot. But i also did miss a coherent narative and a non-canonical plotline. I missed different endings. I The ending seemed nonsensical and out of place to me. In my opinion, simply clafirying why the ending violated rules and gameplay mechanics established through 3 games won't cut it.

This is just my opinion, and no one else has to agree with it. But so is yours that clarification and closure is the only issue. I can respect yours, just please respect others also.

txgoldrush wrote...
3. Be thankful they are even attempting to fix the problem.

This is an attitude i don't get. I paid for the product they sold, under pretences i do think that did not live up in the final product they shipped, comparing it to pre-release made statements and advertizing, and to the series as a whole. I don't think any business company deserves my gratitude for getting my money, they have my money already, that should suffice. That being said, if i am not happy with that they sold me, its my right as a customer to voice my displeasure. Listening to your customers is business, and BioWare is a business company.

txgoldrush wrote...
5. No, you people are whining, continously making topics about how the ending sucks, claiming to be the majority when its not proven to be, wishing the game to fail (it hasn't) to teach Bioware "a lesson".

sorry, but why read them? If you don't like the topics being made, skip them. No one is forcing you to read them, or agree with them. I am skipping some topics also, but i am not complaining they exist or call its posters whiners simply cause they hold an opinion that isn't mine.

txgoldrush wrote...
Really be thankful that Bioware even GAF about fans like you. Many other great artists will tell you to ****** off if you don't like their work.

Sorry, i am not buying into the art argument. BioWare is not an artistic nutshell. They are, first, and foremost, a business company, earning money. Nothing wrong with that, its just as i think it is. They hire artists to create the products they make, but their purpose is not to create art, but sell games and make money with it. Art is the means to an end, not the goal. They have a sustained interest in good customers relations to sell their product, and future products.

The art they produce is restrained and constricted along the way, by budget restraints, timetable, or what other branches (like the designers or video artist) can do or not. And eventually, final choice on the narrative lies with the producer, and has to act in accordance with financial and future plans for the franchise and the company.

And last but not least, art is always usbject to critique, and is subject to change, that makes it an art in the first place.  Many great artists (Dickers, Doyle and many others) reworte parts of their artistic vision due to public opinion. They were not afraid or hold their own artistic image in such a high regard that they were beyond criticism or failure. And that doesn't make them any less of an artist to me, on th contrary.

[Calbeb]

There is absolutely no way Bioware can make things better with a lot of the angry fans. They are clearly trying, and they get points from me for that.

People are still annoyed about it though, and want an answer now. That is understandable.

I hate the fact that some "fans" have decided that the best way to do that is to hurt the game and company's reputation. The level of glee from some users that the title is being offered on discount and Amazon was allowing them to be returned unopened still bothers me. "Thanks for eight great years and a series I absolutely love, but because we don't like the 5 minutes and you said it would be different WE WILL DESTROY YOU".

Modifié par Calbeb, 30 mars 2012 - 06:37 .

[txgoldrush]

MoSa09 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

1. Nevermind the endings problem IS A LACK OF CLARIFICATION AND CLOSURE!!!!!!

uhhm, no. If that is your issue with the ending, thats fine with me. But its not mine. And just keep shouting your opinion as fact and call others who disagree whiny isn't going to make this any better.

I did miss closure in the end, a lot. But i also did miss a coherent narative and a non-canonical plotline. I missed different endings. I The ending seemed nonsensical and out of place to me. In my opinion, simply clafirying why the ending violated rules and gameplay mechanics established through 3 games won't cut it.

This is just my opinion, and no one else has to agree with it. But so is yours that clarification and closure is the only issue. I can respect yours, just please respect others also.

txgoldrush wrote...
3. Be thankful they are even attempting to fix the problem.

This is an attitude i don't get. I paid for the product they sold, under pretences i do think that did not live up in the final product they shipped, comparing it to pre-release made statements and advertizing, and to the series as a whole. I don't think any business company deserves my gratitude for getting my money, they have my money already, that should suffice. That being said, if i am not happy with that they sold me, its my right as a customer to voice my displeasure. Listening to your customers is business, and BioWare is a business company.

txgoldrush wrote...
5. No, you people are whining, continously making topics about how the ending sucks, claiming to be the majority when its not proven to be, wishing the game to fail (it hasn't) to teach Bioware "a lesson".

sorry, but why read them? If you don't like the topics being made, skip them. No one is forcing you to read them, or agree with them. I am skipping some topics also, but i am not complaining they exist or call its posters whiners simply cause they hold an opinion that isn't mine.

txgoldrush wrote...
Really be thankful that Bioware even GAF about fans like you. Many other great artists will tell you to ****** off if you don't like their work.

Sorry, i am not buying into the art argument. BioWare is not an artistic nutshell. They are, first, and foremost, a business company, earning money. Nothing wrong with that, its just as i think it is. They hire artists to create the products they make, but their purpose is not to create art, but sell games and make money with it. Art is the means to an end, not the goal. They have a sustained interest in good customers relations to sell their product, and future products.

The art they produce is restrained and constricted along the way, by budget restraints, timetable, or what other branches (like the designers or video artist) can do or not. And eventually, final choice on the narrative lies with the producer, and has to act in accordance with financial and future plans for the franchise and the company.

And last but not least, art is always usbject to critique, and is subject to change, that makes it an art in the first place.  Many great artists (Dickers, Doyle and many others) reworte parts of their artistic vision due to public opinion. They were not afraid or hold their own artistic image in such a high regard that they were beyond criticism or failure. And that doesn't make them any less of an artist to me, on th contrary.

with clarification comes coherence.....and how does the ending violate gameplay rules? Especially if they add an epilogue of how your choice affect things? Hell the "Dark Energy" ending first concieved was worse than this.

Really, all these ending topics after Bioware's statement shows how pissy and moany this forum really is....plain and simple. They beat dead horses over and over again.

And really everybody should be damn grateful, at least they are attempting to fix a flaw in their game. How many game companies just leave flaws in their games? In their stories? And you paid for all those games too. Be grateful Bioware is actually trying to do something about it.

Do I have to bring up KOTOR II again?

Modifié par txgoldrush, 30 mars 2012 - 07:00 .

[Reptilian Rob]

Words /=/ Actions.

[KingKhan03]

txgoldrush wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

1. Nevermind the endings problem IS A LACK OF CLARIFICATION AND CLOSURE!!!!!!

uhhm, no. If that is your issue with the ending, thats fine with me. But its not mine. And just keep shouting your opinion as fact and call others who disagree whiny isn't going to make this any better.

I did miss closure in the end, a lot. But i also did miss a coherent narative and a non-canonical plotline. I missed different endings. I The ending seemed nonsensical and out of place to me. In my opinion, simply clafirying why the ending violated rules and gameplay mechanics established through 3 games won't cut it.

This is just my opinion, and no one else has to agree with it. But so is yours that clarification and closure is the only issue. I can respect yours, just please respect others also.

txgoldrush wrote...
3. Be thankful they are even attempting to fix the problem.

This is an attitude i don't get. I paid for the product they sold, under pretences i do think that did not live up in the final product they shipped, comparing it to pre-release made statements and advertizing, and to the series as a whole. I don't think any business company deserves my gratitude for getting my money, they have my money already, that should suffice. That being said, if i am not happy with that they sold me, its my right as a customer to voice my displeasure. Listening to your customers is business, and BioWare is a business company.

txgoldrush wrote...
5. No, you people are whining, continously making topics about how the ending sucks, claiming to be the majority when its not proven to be, wishing the game to fail (it hasn't) to teach Bioware "a lesson".

sorry, but why read them? If you don't like the topics being made, skip them. No one is forcing you to read them, or agree with them. I am skipping some topics also, but i am not complaining they exist or call its posters whiners simply cause they hold an opinion that isn't mine.

txgoldrush wrote...
Really be thankful that Bioware even GAF about fans like you. Many other great artists will tell you to ****** off if you don't like their work.

Sorry, i am not buying into the art argument. BioWare is not an artistic nutshell. They are, first, and foremost, a business company, earning money. Nothing wrong with that, its just as i think it is. They hire artists to create the products they make, but their purpose is not to create art, but sell games and make money with it. Art is the means to an end, not the goal. They have a sustained interest in good customers relations to sell their product, and future products.

The art they produce is restrained and constricted along the way, by budget restraints, timetable, or what other branches (like the designers or video artist) can do or not. And eventually, final choice on the narrative lies with the producer, and has to act in accordance with financial and future plans for the franchise and the company.

And last but not least, art is always usbject to critique, and is subject to change, that makes it an art in the first place.  Many great artists (Dickers, Doyle and many others) reworte parts of their artistic vision due to public opinion. They were not afraid or hold their own artistic image in such a high regard that they were beyond criticism or failure. And that doesn't make them any less of an artist to me, on th contrary.

with clarification comes coherence.....and how does the ending violate gameplay rules? Especially if they add an epilogue of how your choice affect things? Hell the "Dark Energy" ending first concieved was worse than this.

Really, all these ending topics after Bioware's statement shows how pissy and moany this forum really is....plain and simple. They beat dead horses over and over again.

Umm i'm not sure what forum you've been on but this particular one hasn't been that bad there are more humorous threads popping up rather then Ending ones.

[robertm2]

welcome to bsn people will whine and complain to the bitter end. there was nothing wrong in the first place but a very loud minority can apparently make a huge difference.