39 réponses à ce sujet

[Beriks]

First of all I apologies if another post has been made, I couldn’t locate it, secondly I hope this is readable, English isn’t my native language and thirdly sorry for the text wall, I really tried to make it short or so I try to convince myself .
 
Having finished once with a human noble warrior, reached the final Battle with an elf mage, and started several other chars both dwarfs and both elf Origins. I have tried to figure out a good (not in a good/evil sence) reason to decide to make an end to the mages.

With my warrior I decided that I would need a healer, but the fact that mages is counted for as the most powerful and feared made me think "why would I not want mages to help me? - the more the better!" 
Short sum up of my deeds: I decided to kill the werewolves, and voted for Harrowmont(spelling?). Generally I played the knight on the white horse. Though I killed Connor cause I wanted to believe that there was no time to go to the mages tower and that I didn’t trust Jowan who I left to rot in the dungeon. Besides I felt that role playing required me to be a bit skeptical towards mages in general. I also killed Genitive to avoid the ashes to be exploited. But never did the thought of ending the mages come to mind.

With my first mage I was in favor of the tower as I had accepted (rp) the risk mages could cause. There for I reported Jowan and later sentenced him for execution, my trust in the tower made me turn to them for help and thereby save everyone in Redcliffe, I let Genitive spread the word. In this play through my planned role playing kind of made me chose to save the tower because my char according to my role playing liked it there and felt at home. This time though knowing that Harrowmont(Spelling) wouldn’t do good I voted for Behlen, Killed the werewolves etc.  

Now I have started a new mage (human), this time I wanted to go for the type who thought the tower as a prison, I didn’t report Jowan, I let him use his blood magic to save Connor at the cost of his mother. I asked Teagan to set him free (now waiting for(name) to wake up). I forced (name) to end the curse on the werewolves. Haven’t been to the dwarves yet, but I plan to go for the Golems for once.   
So far I haven’t returned to the tower since I try to figure out why to kill them. On one side I hate the idea of a prison, on the other side why would I side with the Templars? Now there is no choice regarding killing the templars, but I could choose to kill the elves (might try that when finishing a dwarf). But does anyone have a "good/logical” reason regarding what could "justify" the extermination of the mages?
So far the best reason I can think of is out of fear or the fact that I can (making me evil?) But I haven’t come to think of a reason that would justify it regarding my mission or as a Grey Warden. Neither can I come up with a reason that would make my mage char more free since the tower and the mages inside isn’t in fact the jailors but only prisoners. I guess the only reason for killing the Dalish would be the general mistrust between dwarves and elves, and maybe the fact that they have cursed humans (while playing human).
Any thoughts?
 
Another Q: why can’t the templars join your army against the blight? The mages join so what would they need to guard, assuming that most of the mages living within has been cleared out?

//Beriks

Modifié par Beriks, 02 décembre 2009 - 05:26 .

[Bhatair]

My first character was a mage- and a total goodie goodie. I didn't even give the templars a second thought.



My second playthrough I'm trying more of an "anything to stop the blight" path. The templars actually provide a reasonable argument. All it takes is one malifecarum to really screw things up, as the situation in the tower blatantly attests to. It's too much of a risk to just let the mages loose and have this happen somewhere else, somewhere that wasn't designed for such a contingency. And the templars already gave me their support against the blight.

[KnightofPhoenix]

My logic in my first playthrough when I killed the mages is this:

- The Mages clearly can't control their power.

- The tower is crawling with abominations and blood mages

- The Templars have the right of annulment in times like this, so why not use it?

- I wouldn't trust any mage inside, what's to tell me that there isn't a demon possessing them?

- Maybe the mages will lose control in battle and that I cannot afford

- So, they all need to be purged.

- The Templars will make a fine replacement (Indeed they did).



Also, I would have preferred having a third option of allying with Uldred. As a blood mage, I don't know whether I am going to help the Templars I hate, or help the mages that emprison themselves.

[Suron]

logic in destroying them?

how about..I dunno...look at it from a roleplaying perspective..and using your characters "theme" decide it's outcome based on how s/he would?

roleplay in an rpg..I'll be damned (yes I have the same responce to ALL these STUPID threads..just because there is a happy-go-lucky ending to a lot of quests doesn't mean YOUR CHARACTER would choose that particular choice given the circumstances of the given situation)

meta-gaming is fine for MMO's...for single player RPG's..it ruins the experience..and if that's all you do you have NO RIGHT to complain the choices or outcomes (not directed at anyone in particular..just a general statement)

Modifié par Suron, 02 décembre 2009 - 03:26 .

[TrinityDivine]

Let me answer your second question first. The templars will join you if you choose to destroy the mages at the end of the Broken Circle quest.



On your first question, as far as I can see, the only reason to take that path is to get the achievement associated with it. It makes absolutely no sense to kill everyone else when you've already destroyed Uldred. In fact, the only one who seems to think it's a good idea is Cullen who is as crazy as the mad hatter in the first place. So if you're looking for a good and/or logical reason to kill the mages, I'm afraid there is none.



You will also be depriving yourself of mage assistance in the Arl of Redcliffe quest as well as the end battle if you choose that path. I am not sure how well the templars fight but those 12 mages you get at the end can definitely kick ass and are worth more than all of the other troops you get.

[Beriks]

Good points all of you. But being a blood mage isn't actually = being a malificarum? And the mages just tried to be free of imprisonment? As you have the opportunity to say once (don't remember where) "Magic is not a curse, it is a gift" But maybe the fact that not all are able to control their power could justify the purge.

Its not that I look for the "right" solution Suron, just looking for other angles than the ones i have come up with

I guess I will think a bit more about it but thank you for your thoughts, it is nice to se another angle.

Modifié par Beriks, 02 décembre 2009 - 03:38 .

[Beriks]

dp

Modifié par Beriks, 02 décembre 2009 - 03:35 .

[Loc'n'lol]

From a pure gameplay perspective, I don't want 12 mages on the battlefield nuking my party into oblivion with total disregard for friendly fire. Templars may be less efficient but at least they don't work against you.



Also. this.



From a RP perspective... well just listen to Cullen, he makes a good point. Whether you listen to him or not is up to you.

[Cuiva]

Yup, if you played the Wardens Keep DLC, you see how the "one malficarum screwing up" looks like.

[interesting03]

TrinityDivine wrote..
You will also be depriving yourself of mage assistance in the Arl of Redcliffe quest as well as the end battle if you choose that path. I am not sure how well the templars fight but those 12 mages you get at the end can definitely kick ass and are worth more than all of the other troops you get.

I don't know, the templars are professionals. They can use longbows! Whilst wearing that infamous templar helmet. Plus they spam holy smite and cleanse area. They took down that hurlock emissary general in a matter of seconds for me. The mages also enjoy throwing a few aoe spells at your party, which is rather annoying.

[qthulu]

For me the most logical choise was to save the mages but in the end when Gregoir decides what to do say something like " you cant be sure if there are no blood mages left among them".

End result was to have all surviving mages sent to Denerim for questioning and examination. IN this case the Templars join your army.

I think thats the most reasonable thing to do.

[Garagnoir]

TrinityDivine wrote...
those 12 mages you get at the end can definitely kick ass and are worth more than all of the other troops you get.

Am I the only one who suffered more damage at the hands of the mages and their stupid AI constantly tossing fireballs at me than the darkspawn they were 'helping' me to fight? Eventually I got them to work a little bit better by hanging back and letting them do their thing, but the first time I used them they ended up killing me.

  Imma chargin' my fireballz!

It reminded me of this episode of Sealab.
video.adultswim.com/sealab-2021/bizarroed-out.html

"I'm helping you."

Modifié par Garagnoir, 02 décembre 2009 - 03:48 .

[Rhys Cordelle]

One of my characters is dedicated to the Chantry and hates mages so he will jump on the opportunity when it comes, but other than that, I always side with the mages.

[Bhatair]

qthulu wrote...

For me the most logical choise was to save the mages but in the end when Gregoir decides what to do say something like " you cant be sure if there are no blood mages left among them".
End result was to have all surviving mages sent to Denerim for questioning and examination. IN this case the Templars join your army.
I think thats the most reasonable thing to do.

This is what I did.

[NicklasBertelsen]

TrinityDivine wrote...
I am not sure how well the templars fight but those 12 mages you get at the end can definitely kick ass and are worth more than all of the other troops you get.

Not true at all. The Golems beat everything. You wont need anything else at all.

Suron wrote...

logic in destroying them?

how
about..I dunno...look at it from a roleplaying perspective..and using
your characters "theme" decide it's outcome based on how s/he would?

roleplay
in an rpg..I'll be damned (yes I have the same responce to ALL these
STUPID threads..just because there is a happy-go-lucky ending to a lot
of quests doesn't mean YOUR CHARACTER would choose that particular
choice given the circumstances of the given situation)

meta-gaming
is fine for MMO's...for single player RPG's..it ruins the
experience..and if that's all you do you have NO RIGHT to complain the
choices or outcomes (not directed at anyone in particular..just a
general statement)

Is it a requirement that every thread on this forum has at least one post that's written by a complete moron?

Modifié par NicklasBertelsen, 02 décembre 2009 - 03:56 .

[Bali_of_Terenas]

The choice in the mage tower is basically is it better to kill some potential innocents to make sure a threat is wiped out or to potentially free a major threat in order to save some possible innocents.



Consider this scenario, rather then a room full of mages and demons it's a room of people some of whom have the plague. A few of them are showing advanced signs but some look healthy. Do you pull out the healthy looking ones and possibly have carriers running around making things worse or do you leave them all in there to die in order to protect the general populous?

[Riona45]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

From a RP perspective... well just listen to Cullen, he makes a good point. Whether you listen to him or not is up to you.

He's also starved, dehydrated, has been psychologically tortured and recently saw many of his friends die.  His reaction is understandable but hardly makes for sound counsel.

[Taleroth]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

From a RP perspective... well just listen to Cullen, he makes a good point. Whether you listen to him or not is up to you.

I'd hardly call FUD a good point.  We've seen demons possess non-Mages.  Like Sophia Dryden.  Gotta kill Cullen because he might be housing one!  Or Alistair.  Or Lelianna.  Dog.

Do you want to take that chance?

[sagevallant]

Taleroth wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

From a RP perspective... well just listen to Cullen, he makes a good point. Whether you listen to him or not is up to you.

I'd hardly call FUD a good point.  We've seen demons possess non-Mages.  Like Sophia Dryden.  Gotta kill Cullen because he might be housing one!  Or Alistair.  Or Lelianna.  Dog.

Do you want to take that chance?

Right everyone must die. Including yourself and your party. It's the only way.

[Curlain]

The only truly pragmatic action is sadly to probably kill everyone in that tower (including Wynne and Cullen etc), because yes anyone spared could be an avenue for demonic presence to spread beyond the Circle Tower and into the rest of Ferelden. In this Cullen does have a point despite his bias, of course this would yes include himself on that list, anybody in the tower when the incident happened you cannot know is truly free of possession or influence until it's to late. Of course it's a pretty harsh action, and so far all my PC's have decided to take the chance and spare the mages (the fact that it works out of course doesn't mean at the time it's really wise to take the chance, cause it could equally be disasterous)

Modifié par Curlain, 02 décembre 2009 - 05:39 .

[Bathead]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, sorry if I am, but it seems you all think that you get either the Mages OR the Templars to side with you in the final battle, depending on your actions at the Circle tower. My experience is you can get BOTH.
Again, sorry if I'm misunderstanding.

[Gold Dragon]

In truth, I don't think I could EVER support the Templars. Every time they speak about the mages/to the mages, they simply come across as afraid of the mages.



As such, they want to inflict the right of Annulment at the FIRST SIGNS of Trouble... Listen to Greigor in the Mage Origin story. He came across as frightened of the PC even there (after the Harrowing)

[Lotion Soronarr]

Gregoir loves his charges. You should probe him a bit more in the tower.

[Riona45]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Gregoir loves his charges. You should probe him a bit more in the tower.

Could you elaborate?

[blauregen]

Curlain wrote...

The only truly pragmatic action is sadly to probably kill everyone in that tower (including Wynne and Cullen etc), because yes anyone spared could be an avenue for demonic presence to spread beyond the Circle Tower and into the rest of Ferelden. In this Cullen does have a point despite his bias, of course this would yes include himself on that list, anybody in the tower when the incident happened you cannot know is truly free of possession or influence until it's to late.

Wouldn't a truly pragmatic Greagoir have to kill you too then? You were exposed to bloodmages and demons after all, and he only has your word that you actually fought them, and didn't become possessed, disguising your slaughter of the last remnants of mage resistance against your malicious deeds as 'cleaning' the tower.