286 réponses à ce sujet

[Machazareel]

First off "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.". It takes place in imagination land where people can make black holes with their brains. I don't know why we picked now to start picking at what can and can't be done by super technology.

Second bit is, it hasn't always been in it's power. It was not until the crucible was inserted did it become a option. We upgraded it's operating system.

While that statement is most certainly true, I don't accept it in Mass Effect as the series is based on having an explanation for all its technology. The devs specifically stated that they didn't want things to seem like "Magic in Space". Diverging from the consistency at the very end, something that is contradictory to the narrative method used thus far in the series, is exactly why it's not acceptable to me.

[Aipex8]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

So the vast majority of you really do believe the choices presented to you? Holy crap I'd be pissed too!

No, I actually don't believe the choices, but if it is indoctrination then what happens with the war against the Reapers? It's unresolved and there is no ending, just a cliff hanger. Whether Harbinger successfully indoctrinates you (control or synthesis) or he fails (destroy) the war is still happening. A failed indoctrination attempt on Shepard isn't going to end the war. So you're saying that you are satisfied with that? With filling in the actual resolution to the war with your imagination? You started this thread saying you were satisfied with the ending as-is, and were happy to fill in the rest with your imagination and speculation. But if you think it's indoctrination, then that's a WHOLE LOT of imagination and speculation!

If it is indoctrination, and more ending DLC is planned to show us how the war goes after Shepard's failed indoc attempt, then that's fine! That's a unique twist that I can totally get into! But I don't want to have to make up the real end in my head. That's absurd!

Modifié par Aipex8, 29 mars 2012 - 11:50 .

[Jayelle Janson]

DJBare wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

I may be in the minority

My dear chap, allow me r3stats.net/graphs
But everyone is entitles to their own opinion.

We're gonna need bigger graphs

[ashdrake1]

Machazareel wrote...

First off "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.". It takes place in imagination land where people can make black holes with their brains. I don't know why we picked now to start picking at what can and can't be done by super technology.

Second bit is, it hasn't always been in it's power. It was not until the crucible was inserted did it become a option. We upgraded it's operating system.

While that statement is most certainly true, I don't accept it in Mass Effect as the series is based on having an explanation for all its technology. The devs specifically stated that they didn't want things to seem like "Magic in Space". Diverging from the consistency at the very end, something that is contradictory to the narrative method used thus far in the series, is exactly why it's not acceptable to me.

Unobtainium that can grow in people's brain's to give them the force is pretty damn space magicy.  Or how about embracing eternity?

I would be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts someone on thier writing team can come up with as good of a reason why it works.  Could be some rare element hidden in the mass relays Uberunobtainium.  The entirty of the series relies on suspension of disbelief why can't this one bit?

Modifié par ashdrake1, 30 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[capn233]

Well sorry, I didn't read the thread. I started to read the OP's post...

Ignoring hand-holding for a moment, and ignore the fact that it isn't coherent and does not logically follow from what we learned playing the first two games. And nevermind the fact that the ending is eerily similar to certain other games...

The bigger issue is that in the end choice actually hardly matters whatsoever. You don't have different endings, you basically have the same nonsense with a different colored blast. If you spent more time (not made the "right" choices) you get some 5 second scene that hints that Shepard may have lived.

[Machazareel]

ashdrake1 wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

First off "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.". It takes place in imagination land where people can make black holes with their brains. I don't know why we picked now to start picking at what can and can't be done by super technology.

Second bit is, it hasn't always been in it's power. It was not until the crucible was inserted did it become a option. We upgraded it's operating system.

While that statement is most certainly true, I don't accept it in Mass Effect as the series is based on having an explanation for all its technology. The devs specifically stated that they didn't want things to seem like "Magic in Space". Diverging from the consistency at the very end, something that is contradictory to the narrative method used thus far in the series, is exactly why it's not acceptable to me.

Unobtainium that can grow in people's brain's to give them the force is pretty damn space magicy.  Or how about embracing eternity?

I would be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts someone on thier writing team can come up with as good of a reason why it works.  Could be some rare element hidden in the mass relays Uberunobtainium.  The entirty of the series relies on suspension of disbelief why can't this one bit?

The point is that it's explained within the reality of the ME universe, and thus one can maintain the suspension of disbelief. Yes, I'm sure one of the writers could explain it, but the whole point is that they don't and that breaks the narrative cohesion that has been maintained up to that point.

This is academic. Like, Creative Writing 101.

Modifié par Machazareel, 30 mars 2012 - 12:09 .

[No Snakes Alive]

Aipex8 wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

So the vast majority of you really do believe the choices presented to you? Holy crap I'd be pissed too!

No, I actually don't believe the choices, but if it is indoctrination then what happens with the war against the Reapers? It's unresolved and there is no ending, just a cliff hanger. Whether Harbinger successfully indoctrinates you (control or synthesis) or he fails (destroy) the war is still happening. A failed indoctrination attempt on Shepard isn't going to end the war. So you're saying that you are satisfied with that? With filling in the actual resolution to the war with your imagination? You started this thread saying you were satisfied with the ending as-is, and were happy to fill in the rest with your imagination and speculation. But if you think it's indoctrination, then that's a WHOLE LOT of imagination and speculation!

If it is indoctrination, and more ending DLC is planned to show us how the war goes after Shepard's failed indoc attempt, then that's fine! That's a unique twist that I can totally get into! But I don't want to have to make up the real end in my head. That's absurd!

When I first read The Road I didn't give a **** why the world was in the state it was. The vague few lines it provided were more than enough exposition for me and it instantly became my favorite book ever. I was shocked to see so many people looking for answers to the questions the narrative never asked.

I get that this is a different situation because we're talking about the ending to a narrative rather than its prologue, but the same feeling applies here. I have enough information to draw the conclusions that the destroy option eliminates the reaper threat along with all other AI/synthetic life forms, unfortunately, and leaves the universe in a state of disarray, but united. And with Shep still clinging to life. That's all the hope I need to end with.

I don't care what happens after that to anyone, from the Turians and Quarians to Earth and so on. Those are different stories. It's supplemental to the tale that has been told here, not essential, at least to me. This was about Shepard and co. saving the universe from the reapers and it's been done. And the final battle was with my own ****ing mind! Me, the player! I thought for a second about the very things Saren and TIM did and considered giving in to the same thoughts! Even a second of pause given makes the ending successful to me. That's pretty damn brilliant, to be honest, and all the closure I need is knowing I carried Shep through to the very end and never gave up the fight.

The story has to end somewhere. I don't need the game to show me Miranda and Shepard standing together, embracing one another in the burning aftermath of the apocalypse. I can do that for myself with what the game gave me.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 30 mars 2012 - 12:14 .

[STAG IRONHIDE]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

So the vast majority of you really do believe the choices presented to you? Holy crap I'd be pissed too!

I'm sorry but even avoiding all spoilers until long after the ending sunk in I thought it was painstakingly obvious the starchild was just the voice of indoctrination. I thought it was brilliant how convincing it was, which really made me question my faith in myself (Shepard) over Saren and TIM, but I still thought it was so blatantly an attempt to persuade you that destroying the reapers wouldn't make a difference and that controlling them/synthesizing would be preferable. To me this was an obvious ploy and the Catalyst taking the form of something embedded in Shepard's mind (the boy from Earth) only made it even clearer to me that this was a voice in my head and one I did not want to persuade me off my gameplan.

There was a lot of truth in what it said (which is why indoctrination was so effective!) but I just didn't fully buy the idea of the eternal conflict between organic creator and synthetic creation (I just united Quarians and Geth!), or the harmony of synthesis (Husks, anyone?), or the ease of control (Bravo, TIM) or so on and so forth. I wondered about their plausibility but in the end remained steadfast in my resolve. I didn't give in to the coercion but holy crap a lot of people seem to have done just that.

Maybe I projected too much of my own self into the ending and that's why I like it so much. Maybe I filled in too many blanks. But isn't that the point? I think it's a matter of perspective, and the ending, for many, giving you a lot of bad answers, versus the ending, for me and very few others, simply making us ask good questions.

I can see where dislike would stem from but I find it hard to believe so many people think the ending was simply some randomly-introduced plot device of a character providing three straightforward choices with lame repercussions...

This is a great post, No Snakes Alive, and it's making me reexamine the ending, but it begs the question of how he was indoctrinated in the first place if it wasn't from the beam that hits him. Maybe his interaction with the beacons and being around Reapers and Reaper tech slowly indoctrinated him over time.

I guess you're right about it being how you look at it, but it wasn't the ending people were expecting or promised. If this is what they truly meant to portray then releasing DLC to clarify it would be tacky.

[ashdrake1]

Machazareel wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

First off "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.". It takes place in imagination land where people can make black holes with their brains. I don't know why we picked now to start picking at what can and can't be done by super technology.

Second bit is, it hasn't always been in it's power. It was not until the crucible was inserted did it become a option. We upgraded it's operating system.

While that statement is most certainly true, I don't accept it in Mass Effect as the series is based on having an explanation for all its technology. The devs specifically stated that they didn't want things to seem like "Magic in Space". Diverging from the consistency at the very end, something that is contradictory to the narrative method used thus far in the series, is exactly why it's not acceptable to me.

Unobtainium that can grow in people's brain's to give them the force is pretty damn space magicy.  Or how about embracing eternity?

I would be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts someone on thier writing team can come up with as good of a reason why it works.  Could be some rare element hidden in the mass relays Uberunobtainium.  The entirty of the series relies on suspension of disbelief why can't this one bit?

The point is that it's explained within the reality of the ME universe, and thus one can maintain the suspension of disbelief. Yes, I'm sure one of the writers could explain it, but the whole point is that they don't and that breaks the narrative cohesion that has been maintained up to that point.

This is academic. Like, Creative Writing 101.

Here is hoping to a codex entry with DLC then.

Personally I can imagine that it was done with countless species contributing data into the crucible over millions of years.  Within the setting, I don't find the results out of place. 

[BuckHammer]

 I didn't mind the endings. The only things I HATED about the ending were the lack of closure and the false promises made by BioWare. It's clear that BioWare won't follow through with their promises, so I must settle for closure, which they will provide, supposedly. In general, though, I liked the ending, and here's why:

1) Bittersweet. I love bittersweet endings. Disney endings that contain "And Happily Ever After"  make me nauseous. I know you guys say that you don't want a happy ending, but a lot of you do. And yes, "I want the OPTION of a happy ending" = "I want a happy ending".

2) It doesn't bother me that Shepard and his lover will be separated either by death or long distance. Sometimes, sacrifices need to be made for the greater good. Both Shepard and any potential love interests knew what they were in for when they signed on. While it would be nice to find out what happened to all of the important characters, which is apparently what they will follow up on in the DLC, don't let this element distract you from the big picture.

3) It doesn't bother me that the mass relays were destroyed. Life will go on. You cannot honestly expect that the galaxy was going to finish the Reaper war looking exactly like it did when it entered. It's a lot like World War II. Whole cities and bunches of infrastructure were destroyed. But it was all necessary to defeat a great evil. Life moved on and the world was better for it. Also, the mass relays were part of the cycle, and Shepard's whole mission was ending the cycle. Instead of looking at it like the entire galaxy was destroyed, I see it as beautiful. Even if ALL advanced life in the galaxy was extinct, the next generation of advanced species will grow free of the cycle. I think many of you were too focused on making blue babies and missed the big picture here.

4) It doesn't bother me that Shepard and a whole bunch of squadmates perish. Like I said before, they all knew what they signed on for. I think a lot of you got too distracted by the possibility of blue babies and forgot that you were really supposed to be destroying the Reapers, no matter the cost. Some things in life do not come free of cost, and the ending reflects this.

5) I love the theme of sacrifice. By the way, yes, creating an option that would allow you to finish the mission scot-free would demolish this theme. If that option were available, you would have to intentionally avoid it in order to enjoy the theme of sacrifice. The problem with that is in order for a sacrifice to mean anything, it has to be wholly necessary. If it can be avoided, then it is unnecessary. Then, it would be pure wastefulness and suicide as opposed to a wholesome sacrifice. There is a huge difference.

On the other hand, there are a lot of things I didn't like about the ending. Here are several:

1) It felt rushed. It was too many elements with too little explanation behind them. It really seems like a lot of papers I wrote in school that were due the following day.

2) Our choices didn't matter. BioWare promised several unique endings that would be a result of the choices we had made. This simply is not the case.

3) Space magic. You guys know what I'm talking about here.

4) No variety in the ending. The fact that I can refer to it as an ending instead of a set of endings is pretty sad, especially when compared to promises made during and after development. The only difference between all of the endings was the color of the explosions. Again, this reminds me too much of so many papers I wrote in school the night before the due date. I would have gladly waited as long as it would have taken for BioWare to release a properly made ending.

As you can see, there are a lot of things that I liked about the endings and a lot of things I didn't like. However, I didn't expect the ending to be perfect, although to be honest, I was very disappointed for a few days after I finished the game. However, I'm not going to let an imperfect ending ruin the entire trilogy for me. Another thing is that I don't mean to upset anybody with what I'm presenting here. I'm just trying to give everybody something to think about. Thanks for reading. 

Modifié par BuckHammer, 30 mars 2012 - 12:24 .

[Sublyminal]

Ignorance is bliss...

[Xarathox]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Really? REALLY?

THIS much outrage over endings that leave a lot up to interpretation in a game series that has stressed player choice from the start?

So let me get this straight: we want obvious black and white choices that answer everything for us in a game about player choice? We don't want thought-provoking endings that leave enough up to our own interpretation that we can come up with theories that reach 10,000+ responses in these forums?

After 100+ hours of some of the very best gaming I've experienced in a life spent gaming, I'm still thinking about the ending more than anything else, and I at the very least love that about it. The ending ties in symbolically, metaphorically, philosophically, etc. with everything from the characters, dialogue and gameplay design of the series itself to real life ideologies about the nature of technology, humanity, theology, and so on.

There's a lot to think about, a lot beneath the surface of the final choices and how they were presented, and a lot to decide for ourselves, which is what Mass Effect has always been about. Shepard and co. told us all along that nothing about our victories in this war would come easy, and I'm glad that carries over to the ending too. I'd much rather figure it all out days - even weeks - later than have Bioware go against everything this series has taught me gaming is capable of and figure it all out for me.

I may be in the minority but I'm okay with that. I'd just like to thank the writers of the ending just as much as everyone else involved in this project for keeping this journey my own until the credits rolled, and helping cement Mass Effect as the best series I've ever played.

The inclusion of starbrat made the events of ME1&2 completely irrelevant. All Sovereign had to do was phone the brat to inform him that the remote garage door opener wasn't working.  Problem solved, reapers pour in, everybody dies. The end.

Basically, what everyone is ****ing about: Mac Walters retconned the entire series in 10 minutes.

[KingG528]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Really? REALLY?

THIS much outrage over endings that leave a lot up to interpretation in a game series that has stressed player choice from the start?

So let me get this straight: we want obvious black and white choices that answer everything for us in a game about player choice? We don't want thought-provoking endings that leave enough up to our own interpretation that we can come up with theories that reach 10,000+ responses in these forums?

After 100+ hours of some of the very best gaming I've experienced in a life spent gaming, I'm still thinking about the ending more than anything else, and I at the very least love that about it. The ending ties in symbolically, metaphorically, philosophically, etc. with everything from the characters, dialogue and gameplay design of the series itself to real life ideologies about the nature of technology, humanity, theology, and so on.

There's a lot to think about, a lot beneath the surface of the final choices and how they were presented, and a lot to decide for ourselves, which is what Mass Effect has always been about. Shepard and co. told us all along that nothing about our victories in this war would come easy, and I'm glad that carries over to the ending too. I'd much rather figure it all out days - even weeks - later than have Bioware go against everything this series has taught me gaming is capable of and figure it all out for me.

I may be in the minority but I'm okay with that. I'd just like to thank the writers of the ending just as much as everyone else involved in this project for keeping this journey my own until the credits rolled, and helping cement Mass Effect as the best series I've ever played.

A trilogy is supposed to wrap everything up in the end. Instead, Bioware took the whole the and threw it against the wall. Im sorry but every possibly way I try to decipher the endings I still end up thinking "wtf?"

[ashdrake1]

Xarathox wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Really? REALLY?

THIS much outrage over endings that leave a lot up to interpretation in a game series that has stressed player choice from the start?

So let me get this straight: we want obvious black and white choices that answer everything for us in a game about player choice? We don't want thought-provoking endings that leave enough up to our own interpretation that we can come up with theories that reach 10,000+ responses in these forums?

After 100+ hours of some of the very best gaming I've experienced in a life spent gaming, I'm still thinking about the ending more than anything else, and I at the very least love that about it. The ending ties in symbolically, metaphorically, philosophically, etc. with everything from the characters, dialogue and gameplay design of the series itself to real life ideologies about the nature of technology, humanity, theology, and so on.

There's a lot to think about, a lot beneath the surface of the final choices and how they were presented, and a lot to decide for ourselves, which is what Mass Effect has always been about. Shepard and co. told us all along that nothing about our victories in this war would come easy, and I'm glad that carries over to the ending too. I'd much rather figure it all out days - even weeks - later than have Bioware go against everything this series has taught me gaming is capable of and figure it all out for me.

I may be in the minority but I'm okay with that. I'd just like to thank the writers of the ending just as much as everyone else involved in this project for keeping this journey my own until the credits rolled, and helping cement Mass Effect as the best series I've ever played.

The inclusion of starbrat made the events of ME1&2 completely irrelevant. All Sovereign had to do was phone the brat to inform him that the remote garage door opener wasn't working.  Problem solved, reapers pour in, everybody dies. The end.

Basically, what everyone is ****ing about: Mac Walters retconned the entire series in 10 minutes.

See speculation.  I love it.

Nothing from the Reapers indicate they know about the starchild.  The history of the prior games reflect this to be case.  The starchild states he created the reapers, not that he controls them.  He also belives that the created would turn on the creator.  Anouther reason for them not to know about him.  

[panzerwzh]

Viral marketers/PR trolling again...

[Geneaux486]

I'm talking even more basic.  Did any of them survive the battle?

Unless you get an ending where you see Earth literally burn, yes.

 

How devestated are the worlds like Thessia/Palavan?

As bad as Earth.  This is stated at various points in the game.

 

What about non-capital planets or major population centers?

On a case by case basis, the game either mentions them at some point, or it doesn't.

What else was affected if the Destroy option takes out more then just Reapers and the Geth/EDI?

Everything.  The effect hit every Mass Relay, therefore it was the same effect everywhere.

If Shepard selects Control then just how far does his control reach?

Every Reaper.  The control pulse hit every relay in the galaxy and spread to each surrounding system.

If you pick Synthesis does that mean that over time everything becomes a husk?

Why would everything become a husk?  Making a husk involves draining vital fluids and other bits from the person being transformed and replacing them with tech.  There's nothing to suggest that supplementary synthetic mutation would have this effect.

The fact that you assume they survived at all is also interpretation is nothing in the ending in upon itself indicates that the relays didn't explode in a similar fashion to the Arrival

 
Untrue.  The explosions are clearly not the same as that of the Alpha Relay because we see affected parties such as Reapers, humans, ships, and planets take the pulses without being obliterated.  There are numerous expalantions for this.

and yet you can say that it wasn't Bioware's intention because they tweeted about it but that's not in the game; that is a specification after the fact.  Using what is actually in the game there is no singular set of facts involving "what happens now?" because it is lacking.

Only it isn't lacking.  Everything I've said in this post up to now is based on what is observable in the game itself.  That's my point, we are given more to work with than you seem to think.  There is ambiguity in the ending, yes, but that is not all there is.

The Reapers are proven to be fallible so just because they believe something does not make it so; that has always been the case the only difference is previously the Reapers wouldn't acknowledge this.

Yet everything else the Catalyst predicts, the initial change of synthesis, the result of control, or destruction, and the destruction of the Mass Relays, all come true.  There's nothing to suggest the Catalyst is wrong about what the synthesis effect will be.  Therefore, rejecting the Catalyst's explanation is a personal choice, and does not invalidate what I have said.

Mass Effect isn't about making choices and then coming up with your consequences, it's always been about making choices and then seeing the consequences and after effects occur. 

Making choices then seeing the after-effects in the next game.  Why exactly is my point on that invalid?

[RenownedRyan]

If the ending provoked thought, you may need to think about what provokes you to think.

[No Snakes Alive]

I wanna thank everyone partaking in civil discussion here, on both sides, and apologize for coming off as condescending. The thread title isn't meant as a generalization of everyone who disliked the ending; it's directed at those to whom it applies only.

The fact of the matter is there's plenty, PLENTY of evidence in the ending of this game to suggest more than enough closure if you're willing to connect the dots rather than have them connected for you. I see so many people saying everything up until the ending was made irrelevant by it. The whole POINT of the ending as I see it is exactly that! To make you question everything you thought you knew and see if you still choose to destroy the reapers, knowing that in some ways you're no better than them for doing it. That's good storytelling to me. When something can convince you of something for so long and then make you question it in the blink of an eye, I'm sold.

It doesn't negate the rest if the game, it gives it real value. What's choice without sacrifice? What's resolve without doubt? Just by getting you to even question for even a second the very ideas of synthesis, control, and destruction, the game has shown you the power of Indoctrination and tested you to challenge its influence.

And some of you are actually upset that everything that was black and white in the entire series up until then is suddenly a lot more gray via the ending's twist? That's bad? No that's amazing if you'd take two seconds to realize the implications of it. Did anyone give even half a thought to the power of Indoctrination before now? Just think about the minds which fell victim to its influence throughout the narrative and yet we still never expected it to get us. Us - Shepard, and even more so, us - the player.

Nothing from the earlier games was thrown out the windows by the ending of this game making us think it was all for naught for however long we considered those options, unless you're still considering them...

[Xarathox]

ashdrake1 wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Really? REALLY?

THIS much outrage over endings that leave a lot up to interpretation in a game series that has stressed player choice from the start?

So let me get this straight: we want obvious black and white choices that answer everything for us in a game about player choice? We don't want thought-provoking endings that leave enough up to our own interpretation that we can come up with theories that reach 10,000+ responses in these forums?

After 100+ hours of some of the very best gaming I've experienced in a life spent gaming, I'm still thinking about the ending more than anything else, and I at the very least love that about it. The ending ties in symbolically, metaphorically, philosophically, etc. with everything from the characters, dialogue and gameplay design of the series itself to real life ideologies about the nature of technology, humanity, theology, and so on.

There's a lot to think about, a lot beneath the surface of the final choices and how they were presented, and a lot to decide for ourselves, which is what Mass Effect has always been about. Shepard and co. told us all along that nothing about our victories in this war would come easy, and I'm glad that carries over to the ending too. I'd much rather figure it all out days - even weeks - later than have Bioware go against everything this series has taught me gaming is capable of and figure it all out for me.

I may be in the minority but I'm okay with that. I'd just like to thank the writers of the ending just as much as everyone else involved in this project for keeping this journey my own until the credits rolled, and helping cement Mass Effect as the best series I've ever played.

The inclusion of starbrat made the events of ME1&2 completely irrelevant. All Sovereign had to do was phone the brat to inform him that the remote garage door opener wasn't working.  Problem solved, reapers pour in, everybody dies. The end.

Basically, what everyone is ****ing about: Mac Walters retconned the entire series in 10 minutes.

See speculation.  I love it.

Nothing from the Reapers indicate they know about the starchild.  The history of the prior games reflect this to be case.  The starchild states he created the reapers, not that he controls them.  He also belives that the created would turn on the creator.  Anouther reason for them not to know about him.  

I see what you're saying. Even if he didn't directly control the reapers, he would have direct control of the citadel, since as he put it "the citadel is part of me".

Unless, he's just a wireless remote construct and not actually hard-wired into the citadel. If that's the case: Worse. ****ing. design. flaw. ever. No competent organic would ever design something without a failsafe. Can't see an artificial entity missing that basic peice of logic. Then again, there is his logic for reaping....

[gmboy902]

No Snakes Alive wrote...


So let me get this straight: we want obvious black and white choices that answer everything for us in a game about player choice? We don't want thought-provoking endings that leave enough up to our own interpretation that we can come up with theories that reach 10,000+ responses in these forums?

For the sake of your argument, let's ignore the blatant plot holes, loop-logic, and character inconsistencies that the ending introduces.

I paid BioWare for the rights to play this game, including the ending. I did not pay BioWare to let me use the imagination I already have. No New York Times bestseller has ended with "YOU DECIDE!" on the last chapter of the book. No movie has cut to black and stated <Insert desired ending here> ten minutes before it ended. The Mona Lisa is not missing part of her face.

If I wanted to imagine what happened to Shepard, they may as well have just left the plot out. I paid BioWare to create an ending for the trilogy, and I am not satisfied with how my money (alongside, of course, other fans' money) has been used.  The fact that you think there should be 10,000 theories on how the game actually ended is laughable.

[No Snakes Alive]

I wanna thank everyone partaking in civil discussion here, on both sides, and apologize for coming off as condescending. The thread title isn't meant as a generalization of everyone who disliked the ending; it's directed at those to whom it applies only.

The fact of the matter is there's plenty, PLENTY of evidence in the ending of this game to suggest more than enough closure if you're willing to connect the dots rather than have them connected for you. I see so many people saying everything up until the ending was made irrelevant by it. The whole POINT of the ending as I see it is exactly that! To make you question everything you thought you knew and see if you still choose to destroy the reapers, knowing that in some ways you're no better than them for doing it. That's good storytelling to me. When something can convince you of something for so long and then make you question it in the blink of an eye, I'm sold.

It doesn't negate the rest if the game, it gives it real value. What's choice without sacrifice? What's resolve without doubt? Just by getting you to even question for even a second the very ideas of synthesis, control, and destruction, the game has shown you the power of Indoctrination and tested you to challenge its influence.

And some of you are actually upset that everything that was black and white in the entire series up until then is suddenly a lot more gray via the ending's twist? That's bad? No that's amazing if you'd take two seconds to realize the implications of it. Did anyone give even half a thought to the power of Indoctrination before now? Just think about the minds which fell victim to its influence throughout the narrative and yet we still never expected it to get us. Us - Shepard, and even more so, us - the player.

Nothing from the earlier games was thrown out the window by the ending of this game making us think it was all for naught for however long we considered those options, unless you're still considering them.

In which case, you're indoctrinated.

[Aipex8]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Aipex8 wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

So the vast majority of you really do believe the choices presented to you? Holy crap I'd be pissed too!

No, I actually don't believe the choices, but if it is indoctrination then what happens with the war against the Reapers? It's unresolved and there is no ending, just a cliff hanger. Whether Harbinger successfully indoctrinates you (control or synthesis) or he fails (destroy) the war is still happening. A failed indoctrination attempt on Shepard isn't going to end the war. So you're saying that you are satisfied with that? With filling in the actual resolution to the war with your imagination? You started this thread saying you were satisfied with the ending as-is, and were happy to fill in the rest with your imagination and speculation. But if you think it's indoctrination, then that's a WHOLE LOT of imagination and speculation!

If it is indoctrination, and more ending DLC is planned to show us how the war goes after Shepard's failed indoc attempt, then that's fine! That's a unique twist that I can totally get into! But I don't want to have to make up the real end in my head. That's absurd!

When I first read The Road I didn't give a **** why the world was in the state it was. The vague few lines it provided were more than enough exposition for me and it instantly became my favorite book ever. I was shocked to see so many people looking for answers to the questions the narrative never asked.

I get that this is a different situation because we're talking about the ending to a narrative rather than its prologue, but the same feeling applies here. I have enough information to draw the conclusions that the destroy option eliminates the reaper threat along with all other AI/synthetic life forms, unfortunately, and leaves the universe in a state of disarray, but united. And with Shep still clinging to life. That's all the hope I need to end with.

I don't care what happens after that to anyone, from the Turians and Quarians to Earth and so on. Those are different stories. It's supplemental to the tale that has been told here, not essential, at least to me. This was about Shepard and co. saving the universe from the reapers and it's been done. And the final battle was with my own ****ing mind! Me, the player! I thought for a second about the very things Saren and TIM did and considered giving in to the same thoughts! Even a second of pause given makes the ending successful to me. That's pretty damn brilliant, to be honest, and all the closure I need is knowing I carried Shep through to the very end and never gave up the fight.

The story has to end somewhere. I don't need the game to show me Miranda and Shepard standing together, embracing one another in the burning aftermath of the apocalypse. I can do that for myself with what the game gave me.

So, first you say that you don't believe the ending choices are true and that it's indoctrination (which is to say the "choice" had nothing to do with the Reapers, but only the battle in Shepard's mind). This implies that the REAL Reaper conflict is unresolved... as in you wake up in the rubble and battle is still going.

Now you're saying the opposite. That the destroy ending does exactly what it shows: destroys the Reapers and all synthetic life and the mass relays. So which is it? Destroy does actually do what it says on the tin, but control and synthesis are lies? It seems that you really haven't thought this out that much and are just making stuff up to argue any point that is brought up.

Let me say this again. If the choices at the end are Shepard battling indoctrination in his own mind, the best outcome is that he breaks the attempt and wakes up in the rubble AND THE WAR IS STILL GOING ON AS IT WAS BEFORE THEY RAN TOWARDS THE BEAM! And if that is really the end and there's no DLC addition, then we have to make up the entire end of the story in our heads.

If all the stuff that we see really did happen (Reapers and synthetics being destroyed, mass relays, etc.) then it's not in his head, is not indoctrination, and is "true."

So, which is it? You can't have it both ways.

[STAG IRONHIDE]

Geneaux486 wrote...


Making choices then seeing the after-effects in the next game.  Why exactly is my point on that invalid?

I may be reading this out of context, but I don't see how they could make your choices carry over into the next game, especially if the indoctrination theory is correct (well maybe if they retcon the ending where he gasps for air they could continue from that ending).

Everyone in the Synthesis ending would have to have completely different dialogue since they are a fusion of organic and synthetic life now (are they a group collective? That would be even stranger)

Assuming Indoctrination is what they go with if they retcon the ending, Synthesis and Control keeps the Reapers alive.

[ashdrake1]

Xarathox wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Really? REALLY?

THIS much outrage over endings that leave a lot up to interpretation in a game series that has stressed player choice from the start?

So let me get this straight: we want obvious black and white choices that answer everything for us in a game about player choice? We don't want thought-provoking endings that leave enough up to our own interpretation that we can come up with theories that reach 10,000+ responses in these forums?

After 100+ hours of some of the very best gaming I've experienced in a life spent gaming, I'm still thinking about the ending more than anything else, and I at the very least love that about it. The ending ties in symbolically, metaphorically, philosophically, etc. with everything from the characters, dialogue and gameplay design of the series itself to real life ideologies about the nature of technology, humanity, theology, and so on.

There's a lot to think about, a lot beneath the surface of the final choices and how they were presented, and a lot to decide for ourselves, which is what Mass Effect has always been about. Shepard and co. told us all along that nothing about our victories in this war would come easy, and I'm glad that carries over to the ending too. I'd much rather figure it all out days - even weeks - later than have Bioware go against everything this series has taught me gaming is capable of and figure it all out for me.

I may be in the minority but I'm okay with that. I'd just like to thank the writers of the ending just as much as everyone else involved in this project for keeping this journey my own until the credits rolled, and helping cement Mass Effect as the best series I've ever played.

The inclusion of starbrat made the events of ME1&2 completely irrelevant. All Sovereign had to do was phone the brat to inform him that the remote garage door opener wasn't working.  Problem solved, reapers pour in, everybody dies. The end.

Basically, what everyone is ****ing about: Mac Walters retconned the entire series in 10 minutes.

See speculation.  I love it.

Nothing from the Reapers indicate they know about the starchild.  The history of the prior games reflect this to be case.  The starchild states he created the reapers, not that he controls them.  He also belives that the created would turn on the creator.  Anouther reason for them not to know about him.  

I see what you're saying. Even if he didn't directly control the reapers, he would have direct control of the citadel, since as he put it "the citadel is part of me".

Unless, he's just a wireless remote construct and not actually hard-wired into the citadel. If that's the case: Worse. ****ing. design. flaw. ever. No competent organic would ever design something without a failsafe. Can't see an artificial entity missing that basic peice of logic. Then again, there is his logic for reaping....

Could be.  He may very well be wireless, which would be awesome.   I had not even thought of that . Lots of room for future story telling with that one.  I had just thought he had not fixed the citadel for fear of being discovered by the reapers.  

As far as a design flaw, it's a computer.  1 is less than 2 and 2 is less than three.  It may have thought it's solution to be perfect and left it at that.  

[rymajn3]

I can't quite understand how anyone can be satisfied with mediocrity, after the trilogy was so good up to that point.