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#151
Geneaux486

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I may be reading this out of context, but I don't see how they could make your choices carry over into the next game, especially if the indoctrination theory is correct


You did read it out of context. The point I was responding to was that because the choices you made in the first two games had visible outcomes, such should be the case for the end of the third, to which I responded that we saw the results of those choices because there were sequels to show them in, while the final game in the series has no such luxury.

#152
gmboy902

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No Snakes Alive wrote...

The fact of the matter is there's plenty, PLENTY of evidence in the ending of this game to suggest more than enough closure if you're willing to connect the dots rather than have them connected for you.


Well the big offender here would be the mass relay explosions. How can I connect the dots when doing so with currently established lore implies that all of the relay-inhabited star systems in the galaxy have just been blown to hell?

Secondly, we don't have to knowledge to "connect the dots" for many of the big questions.

Example. I chose to sabotage the genophage. Obviously, I know that the Krogan haven't been cured. But that's not enough, I don't want an epilogue saying "The Krogan were not cured". Do they ever find another way to heal their species? Do they go into a mindless rage because of the lie of a cure and wage war on the galaxy again?

Perhaps I managed to salvage both the Geth and the Quarians. Does this newfound alliance continue to the benefit of Rannoch? Will Tali ever find her way back to Rannoch, where she dreamed of living out her life? Or will the Geth rebel again, forcing their destruction?

Maybe I chose to destroy synthetic life. What happens to Joker, abandoned on this island with only a small crew and his best friend destroyed by my actions? Will he go into depression, or get over the loss?

Let's say I was able to prevent Ashley/Kaiden's death. Will they take my place as the representative of humanity in the Spectres? Will they continue to bring glory to the name of humanity?

Perhaps the biggest question is what will happen now that the relays are gone? Several races, most of them ex-military, are stuck on a wartorn, space-debris filled Earth. There's no way that could go over peaceful. How do I know none of them will resort to great measures, establishing a dictatorship or even destroying the world in nuclear war?

If the question is "Was the genophage cured?" and I had let Mordin cure the genophage, then the answer would be "Yes." BioWare wouldn't have to tell me that. But the questions that I want answered have so many dynamics that only BioWare can really answer them.

#153
STAG IRONHIDE

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Aipex8 wrote...

So, first you say that you don't believe the ending choices are true and that it's indoctrination (which is to say the "choice" had nothing to do with the Reapers, but only the battle in Shepard's mind). This implies that the REAL Reaper conflict is unresolved... as in you wake up in the rubble and battle is still going.

Now you're saying the opposite. That the destroy ending does exactly what it shows: destroys the Reapers and all synthetic life and the mass relays. So which is it? Destroy does actually do what it says on the tin, but control and synthesis are lies? It seems that you really haven't thought this out that much and are just making stuff up to argue any point that is brought up.

Let me say this again. If the choices at the end are Shepard battling indoctrination in his own mind, the best outcome is that he breaks the attempt and wakes up in the rubble AND THE WAR IS STILL GOING ON AS IT WAS BEFORE THEY RAN TOWARDS THE BEAM! And if that is really the end and there's no DLC addition, then we have to make up the entire end of the story in our heads.

If all the stuff that we see really did happen (Reapers and synthetics being destroyed, mass relays, etc.) then it's not in his head, is not indoctrination, and is "true."

So, which is it? You can't have it both ways.


That is why  they would've needed to explain the Indoctrination for it to be their intention in the original ending(and this is just basing it off the game, not what they said about the ending before the game came out)

. Why would the Reapers go through the trouble of Indoctrinating Shepard? And if that is the case, why would Destroy even be an option?

And yes, it makes no sense to say that he breaks the indoctrination in the "Best" Destroy ending, because then it means that Synthesis/Control and the "Bad" Destroy endings were just hallucinations and none of them could have possibly happened. If he is indeed Indoctrinated and wakes up on Earth in the rubbel pile by breaking it, does that mean that he dies while Indoctrinated if he picks Synthesis/Control or the "bad" destroy endings?

Geneaux486 wrote...

You did read it out of context. The point I was
responding to was that because the choices you made in the first two
games had visible outcomes, such should be the case for the end of the
third, to which I responded that we saw the results of those choices
because there were sequels to show them in, while the final game in the
series has no such luxury.


Oh I see, my bad. Still, Bioware will have a hard time making a new game in the series unless they retcon for Indoctrination now or just go with control or destroy if Indoctrination doesn't apply.

Modifié par STAG IRONHIDE, 30 mars 2012 - 01:15 .


#154
Xarathox

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ashdrake1 wrote...

Could be.  He may very well be wireless, which would be awesome.   I had not even thought of that :). Lots of room for future story telling with that one.  I had just thought he had not fixed the citadel for fear of being discovered by the reapers.  

As far as a design flaw, it's a computer.  1 is less than 2 and 2 is less than three.  It may have thought it's solution to be perfect and left it at that.  


Of course it thought it's solution was perfect. It didn't even consider that there were other options until the crucible docked with the citadel. Even then, it only acknowledged 3 new solutions.

I'm convinced that the starbrat isn't even an intelligent entity. If it were, it would be very aware of the law of probabilities. Instead, it clings to the notion that technological singularity is an absolute, but not a probability.

The only way it could possibly be 100% certain in it's assertion of absolutism, is if it were god. Which it most certain is not.

#155
KingZayd

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ashdrake1 wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Really? REALLY?

THIS much outrage over endings that leave a lot up to interpretation in a game series that has stressed player choice from the start?

So let me get this straight: we want obvious black and white choices that answer everything for us in a game about player choice? We don't want thought-provoking endings that leave enough up to our own interpretation that we can come up with theories that reach 10,000+ responses in these forums?

After 100+ hours of some of the very best gaming I've experienced in a life spent gaming, I'm still thinking about the ending more than anything else, and I at the very least love that about it. The ending ties in symbolically, metaphorically, philosophically, etc. with everything from the characters, dialogue and gameplay design of the series itself to real life ideologies about the nature of technology, humanity, theology, and so on.

There's a lot to think about, a lot beneath the surface of the final choices and how they were presented, and a lot to decide for ourselves, which is what Mass Effect has always been about. Shepard and co. told us all along that nothing about our victories in this war would come easy, and I'm glad that carries over to the ending too. I'd much rather figure it all out days - even weeks - later than have Bioware go against everything this series has taught me gaming is capable of and figure it all out for me.

I may be in the minority but I'm okay with that. I'd just like to thank the writers of the ending just as much as everyone else involved in this project for keeping this journey my own until the credits rolled, and helping cement Mass Effect as the best series I've ever played.


The inclusion of starbrat made the events of ME1&2 completely irrelevant. All Sovereign had to do was phone the brat to inform him that the remote garage door opener wasn't working.  Problem solved, reapers pour in, everybody dies. The end.

Basically, what everyone is ****ing about: Mac Walters retconned the entire series in 10 minutes.


See speculation.  I love it.

Nothing from the Reapers indicate they know about the starchild.  The history of the prior games reflect this to be case.  The starchild states he created the reapers, not that he controls them.  He also belives that the created would turn on the creator.  Anouther reason for them not to know about him.  


actually he does say he control the reapers. he doesn't explicitly say he created them, although they are his solution.

#156
No Snakes Alive

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gmboy902 wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...


So let me get this straight: we want obvious black and white choices that answer everything for us in a game about player choice? We don't want thought-provoking endings that leave enough up to our own interpretation that we can come up with theories that reach 10,000+ responses in these forums?


For the sake of your argument, let's ignore the blatant plot holes, loop-logic, and character inconsistencies that the ending introduces.

I paid BioWare for the rights to play this game, including the ending. I did not pay BioWare to let me use the imagination I already have. No New York Times bestseller has ended with "YOU DECIDE!" on the last chapter of the book. No movie has cut to black and stated <Insert desired ending here> ten minutes before it ended. The Mona Lisa is not missing part of her face.

If I wanted to imagine what happened to Shepard, they may as well have just left the plot out. I paid BioWare to create an ending for the trilogy, and I am not satisfied with how my money (alongside, of course, other fans' money) has been used.  The fact that you think there should be 10,000 theories on how the game actually ended is laughable.


But plenty of Picassos are, and I can name a few Pulitzer Prize winning books and Academy Award winning movies that end far more abruptly and vaguely than this game. There's a difference between "thinking there should be 10,000 theories on how the game actually ended" or being left with a feeling of "YOU DECIDE!" and simply being able to interpret a course of events that leave some blanks for you to fill in yourself.

Talk about laughable. Good luck with your refund lolol.

#157
WhiteJoker

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Geneaux486 wrote...

Unless you get an ending where you see Earth literally burn, yes.

Your interpretation.  We never see the fleet in the ending, not a single ship, hell, we don't even see the wreckage of any of there ships when the Crucible docks.  All we see are Reapers in the surrounding area.  That you conclude they did is interpretation yet without solid evidence any contrary interpretation is equally valid.  That's my entire point; there is neither evidence indicating one way or another which means all things are valid and all things are not valid.  You can't have a meaningful discussion at that point unless you preface everything by "asuming that we agree that..." and that's a wretched way to guide a discussion.

As bad as Earth.  This is stated at various points in the game.

Which tells us nothing as all we get to go by is London.  Is every city like London?  Anderson mentions that the Reapers were starting to aim for more rural areas so are they like this too?  Worse?  Better?  See above.  Furthermore the Reapers are explicitely stated to have taken a different approach to attacking Thessia.

 

On a case by case basis, the game either mentions them at some point, or it doesn't.

See above.

Everything.  The effect hit every Mass Relay, therefore it was the same effect everywhere.

I'm don't mean distance.  I mean the Catalyst implies it effects not just Reaper based technology when it infers that Shepard will die too because he's partly synthetic due to the implants Cerberus used to resurrect him.  How far does that go?

Every Reaper.  The control pulse hit every relay in the galaxy and spread to each surrounding system.

Again, I don't mean physical distance.  Is every Reaper now just Shepard?  Do they have a proverbial Shepard sitting around in there heads telling them what to do?  Does it just suggest?  Argue?  Are the Reapers for the most part the same, just altered with Shepard's internal ethics?  Is it just impulse or literal control?  Is it permanent?  Does a mental entity that can be identified as Shepard still exist in there or is it like synthesis in that it's merely a framework based on Shepard's personality that's been overlayed atop Reaper personalities?

Why would everything become a husk?  Making a husk involves draining vital fluids and other bits from the person being transformed and replacing them with tech.  There's nothing to suggest that supplementary synthetic mutation would have this effect.

Nothing to indicate it won't either.  That is again my point.  Synthesis means nothing because it has no definition as such anything and everything is valid about it because nothing says it does not one way or another.  I do admit that the question was sensationalized and exaggerated to prove a point.  The same point every other question highlights which you haven't addressed likely for the very reason why I brought them up.

Untrue.  The explosions are clearly not the same as that of the Alpha Relay because we see affected parties such as Reapers, humans, ships, and planets take the pulses without being obliterated.  There are numerous expalantions for this.

We see it when the Citadel does it's thing but we don't see any of those planets when a relay explodes.  And yes, the explosion is different but how different?  We don't know so again, my point.

Only it isn't lacking.  Everything I've said in this post up to now is based on what is observable in the game itself.  That's my point, we are given more to work with than you seem to think.  There is ambiguity in the ending, yes, but that is not all there is.

Again, it isn't because the game does not portray any of it, those are your interpretations and your conclusions and every single conclusion is equally valid.  That is what makes it poor story telling.  That is what makes it poor speculation.

Yet everything else the Catalyst predicts, the initial change of synthesis, the result of control, or destruction, and the destruction of the Mass Relays, all come true.  There's nothing to suggest the Catalyst is wrong about what the synthesis effect will be.  Therefore, rejecting the Catalyst's explanation is a personal choice, and does not invalidate what I have said.

There is nothing to indicate it will be right either beyond "because it said so."  The Catalyst speaks of long term things, the entire synthetic debate is itself a big picture long term issue, but what we are given is short term alone when your choices are all about the long term big picture.  If you want to argue that as a speculative ending the ME3 ending is good then that is why it is not because it does not deal at all with speculation; it gives you a bang and a then it's done without a glimpse into the future of what those choices mean.  That is why any conclusion is made from whole cloth: it is not supported by what is shown in the ending because none of it is there.  Anything you come up with is wholey your own and it may very well be stellar and amazing but it is not based on Mass Effect 3's ending anymore then me claiming that Synthesis means everything gets turned into Husk is based on ME3's ending.

Making choices then seeing the after-effects in the next game.  Why exactly is my point on that invalid?

Thank you for avoiding the point and splitting hairs.  None the less that itself is invalidated because if there are subsequent games then the consequence will not be of your choices because a future game cannot incorporate control, destroy, and synthesis individually and simultaneously thus you don't actually see the consequences of your choice, instead you're told that this is what Shepard picked and this is what happened.  In such a situation the Effect aspect is perhaps validated but the Cause then becomes the issue and we go back to square one.

#158
KingZayd

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No Snakes Alive wrote...

I wanna thank everyone partaking in civil discussion here, on both sides, and apologize for coming off as condescending. The thread title isn't meant as a generalization of everyone who disliked the ending; it's directed at those to whom it applies only.

The fact of the matter is there's plenty, PLENTY of evidence in the ending of this game to suggest more than enough closure if you're willing to connect the dots rather than have them connected for you. I see so many people saying everything up until the ending was made irrelevant by it. The whole POINT of the ending as I see it is exactly that! To make you question everything you thought you knew and see if you still choose to destroy the reapers, knowing that in some ways you're no better than them for doing it. That's good storytelling to me. When something can convince you of something for so long and then make you question it in the blink of an eye, I'm sold.

It doesn't negate the rest if the game, it gives it real value. What's choice without sacrifice? What's resolve without doubt? Just by getting you to even question for even a second the very ideas of synthesis, control, and destruction, the game has shown you the power of Indoctrination and tested you to challenge its influence.

And some of you are actually upset that everything that was black and white in the entire series up until then is suddenly a lot more gray via the ending's twist? That's bad? No that's amazing if you'd take two seconds to realize the implications of it. Did anyone give even half a thought to the power of Indoctrination before now? Just think about the minds which fell victim to its influence throughout the narrative and yet we still never expected it to get us. Us - Shepard, and even more so, us - the player.

Nothing from the earlier games was thrown out the windows by the ending of this game making us think it was all for naught for however long we considered those options, unless you're still considering them...


it's not that black and white--> gray
it's that in ending, black=white=4.
the starchild adds HUGE inconsistencies to the plot.

#159
Hunter_Wolf

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STAG IRONHIDE wrote...
Oh I see, my bad. Still, Bioware will have a hard time making a new game in the series unless they retcon for Indoctrination now or just go with control or destroy if Indoctrination doesn't apply.


That's assuming they didn't have something planned in the coming months to begin with that we weren't ware of.

#160
STAG IRONHIDE

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I don't think we're going to be able to agree on this lol.

And even if they retcon it that doesn't mean it's consistent with their original intention for the ending, they can run with anything now.

All we can agree upon is that Bioware didn't deliver on their original promise of an ending that answers questions, because this is all speculation.

Hunter_Wolf wrote...



That's assuming they didn't have something planned in the coming months to begin with that we weren't ware of.




That unfortunately seems to be the case.... they definitely created huge "buzz" and "interest" in it... if you want to call it that....

Modifié par STAG IRONHIDE, 30 mars 2012 - 01:23 .


#161
ashdrake1

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Xarathox wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

Could be.  He may very well be wireless, which would be awesome.   I had not even thought of that :). Lots of room for future story telling with that one.  I had just thought he had not fixed the citadel for fear of being discovered by the reapers.  

As far as a design flaw, it's a computer.  1 is less than 2 and 2 is less than three.  It may have thought it's solution to be perfect and left it at that.  


Of course it thought it's solution was perfect. It didn't even consider that there were other options until the crucible docked with the citadel. Even then, it only acknowledged 3 new solutions.

I'm convinced that the starbrat isn't even an intelligent entity. If it were, it would be very aware of the law of probabilities. Instead, it clings to the notion that technological singularity is an absolute, but not a probability.

The only way it could possibly be 100% certain in it's assertion of absolutism, is if it were god. Which it most certain is not.


Like it or not, the ending was very effictive at speculation.  This conversation is more than evidence enough of it.  I am not saying it's a sliced bread sort of thing.  I have seen far more compelling endings, this one does a very good job of keeping my mind in the ME universe.

actually he does say he control the reapers. he doesn't explicitly say he created them, although they are his solution.


just rewatched that bit.  My bad.

#162
Geneaux486

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Your interpretation.


Let me be more specific:  Unless you get the ending where Earth literally burns, you can safely assume that the Catalyst itself did not destroy or kill anyone or anything.

Which tells us nothing as all we get to go by is London.


Anderson gives us regular reports on Earth.  People are dying or being captured, major cities are burning, communications are cut off, as is the case with Palaven and Thessia.

I mean the Catalyst implies it effects not just Reaper based technology when it infers that Shepard will die too because he's partly synthetic due to the implants Cerberus used to resurrect him.  How far does that go?


Destruction of synthetics means destruction of synthetics, so if it's synthetic, it was destroyed. 

 Do they have a proverbial Shepard sitting around in there heads telling them what to do?  Does it just suggest?  Argue?  Are the Reapers for the most part the same, just altered with Shepard's internal ethics?  Is it just impulse or literal control?  Is it permanent?  Does a mental entity that can be identified as Shepard still exist in there or is it like synthesis in that it's merely a framework based on Shepard's personality that's been overlayed atop Reaper personalities?


Game doesn't tell us.  What it does tell us is that the Reapers stop attacking organics as soon as the effect takes off, and that activating the Crucible will "end the cycle".  That's more than enough to go off of.

Nothing to indicate it won't either.


In the same way there's nothing to indicate that synthesis won't cause the universe to implode, yes.

We see it when the Citadel does it's thing but we don't see any of those planets when a relay explodes.  And yes, the explosion is different but how different?  We don't know so again, my point.


We see that the Normandy wasn't obliterated, nor was the planet they landed on, so actually, it is my point.

That is what makes it poor story telling.  That is what makes it poor speculation.


But it's neither.

Anything you come up with is wholey your own and it may very well be stellar and amazing but it is not based on Mass Effect 3's ending anymore then me claiming that Synthesis means everything gets turned into Husk is based on ME3's ending.


I have more than proven that to be false at this point, citing various specific in-game examples.  If you want to keep thinking that we're not given information that we actually are, that's certainly your right, but at this point I can do little more than repeat myself.

Thank you for avoiding the point and splitting hairs.


Your point needed clarification, hence why I asked for it.  We see the effects of our choices because there is a sequel in which to do so.  At the end of the story, there is no sequel, so yes, some things are going to be ambiguous.

#163
gmboy902

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No Snakes Alive wrote...

gmboy902 wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...


So let me get this straight: we want obvious black and white choices that answer everything for us in a game about player choice? We don't want thought-provoking endings that leave enough up to our own interpretation that we can come up with theories that reach 10,000+ responses in these forums?


For the sake of your argument, let's ignore the blatant plot holes, loop-logic, and character inconsistencies that the ending introduces.

I paid BioWare for the rights to play this game, including the ending. I did not pay BioWare to let me use the imagination I already have. No New York Times bestseller has ended with "YOU DECIDE!" on the last chapter of the book. No movie has cut to black and stated <Insert desired ending here> ten minutes before it ended. The Mona Lisa is not missing part of her face.

If I wanted to imagine what happened to Shepard, they may as well have just left the plot out. I paid BioWare to create an ending for the trilogy, and I am not satisfied with how my money (alongside, of course, other fans' money) has been used.  The fact that you think there should be 10,000 theories on how the game actually ended is laughable.


But plenty of Picassos are, and I can name a few Pulitzer Prize winning books and Academy Award winning movies that end far more abruptly and vaguely than this game. There's a difference between "thinking there should be 10,000 theories on how the game actually ended" or being left with a feeling of "YOU DECIDE!" and simply being able to interpret a course of events that leave some blanks for you to fill in yourself.

Talk about laughable. Good luck with your refund lolol.


I'd like to think Mass Effect isn't really an "abstract game".

You bring a good point about books with abrupt endings, although you must remember the purposes of some books. Mass Effect is told for entertainment. Stories like "A Good Man is Hard to Find" (Flannery O'Connor) and books like Animal Farm may have drastic and sudden endings, but they convey their points and the themes the author put in them. The abrupt ending is for dramatic effect, I suppose.

Mass Effect has always been marketed on cause-and-effect. My choice is this. I will see the result like this. We were promised not only results to our choices, but that we wouldn't be left with questions. If Mass Effect was a static story, this wouldn't be a problem, but it is a story in which our choices really matter - or, at least, they should.

And again, I didn't pay under the impression that I would be the one to fill in the blanks of the ending. As I've stated above, filling in the blanks is not a simple matter. It requires more information than we have, meaning only BioWare can decide what happens because of your choices.

Mass Effect 3 is the end of a trilogy. The end of a story which we have helped direct for three games. Such an ending should be clear and resolute.

#164
Hudathan

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People seem to want ME4 with their ME3. God forbid if Bioware wants to make another game later that might address some of these issues years down the line. Or even better, don't tell people the cannon endings to tough decisions because it makes the decision-making process brain-dead in retrospect. The Genophage is interesting precisely because we can't see the future, the same with the Geth.

The point of those decisions is for Shepard and the player to confront his/her personal beliefs regarding the nature of life. If you're an idealist who thinks that the Krogan are ready to change, you cure them. If you have a different experience with Wreav and don't believe they can change, then you sabotage it. That process is what makes those issues so interesting. If Bioware gave us their version of what they think the 'right' outcome is then it all becomes moot.

Modifié par Hudathan, 30 mars 2012 - 01:31 .


#165
Xarathox

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ashdrake1 wrote...

Xarathox wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

Could be.  He may very well be wireless, which would be awesome.   I had not even thought of that :). Lots of room for future story telling with that one.  I had just thought he had not fixed the citadel for fear of being discovered by the reapers.  

As far as a design flaw, it's a computer.  1 is less than 2 and 2 is less than three.  It may have thought it's solution to be perfect and left it at that.  


Of course it thought it's solution was perfect. It didn't even consider that there were other options until the crucible docked with the citadel. Even then, it only acknowledged 3 new solutions.

I'm convinced that the starbrat isn't even an intelligent entity. If it were, it would be very aware of the law of probabilities. Instead, it clings to the notion that technological singularity is an absolute, but not a probability.

The only way it could possibly be 100% certain in it's assertion of absolutism, is if it were god. Which it most certain is not.


Like it or not, the ending was very effictive at speculation.  This conversation is more than evidence enough of it.  I am not saying it's a sliced bread sort of thing.  I have seen far more compelling endings, this one does a very good job of keeping my mind in the ME universe.

actually he does say he control the reapers. he doesn't explicitly say he created them, although they are his solution.


just rewatched that bit.  My bad.


If a writer wants to create coherent "fridge briliance" speculation, cramming it all in the final chapter only is an extremely ****ty way to go about it.

I think the ending was bad because it was both written very poorly, and delivered very poorly.

#166
Kulthar Drax

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Hmm.

Modifié par Kulthar Drax, 30 mars 2012 - 11:37 .


#167
Reidbynature

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BSN, trolls never go hungry, right?

#168
SumthingStupid789

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how about the fact that this was going to be the end of the shepard trilogy but it didnt end

#169
No Snakes Alive

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STAG IRONHIDE wrote...

Aipex8 wrote...

So, first you say that you don't believe the ending choices are true and that it's indoctrination (which is to say the "choice" had nothing to do with the Reapers, but only the battle in Shepard's mind). This implies that the REAL Reaper conflict is unresolved... as in you wake up in the rubble and battle is still going.

Now you're saying the opposite. That the destroy ending does exactly what it shows: destroys the Reapers and all synthetic life and the mass relays. So which is it? Destroy does actually do what it says on the tin, but control and synthesis are lies? It seems that you really haven't thought this out that much and are just making stuff up to argue any point that is brought up.

Let me say this again. If the choices at the end are Shepard battling indoctrination in his own mind, the best outcome is that he breaks the attempt and wakes up in the rubble AND THE WAR IS STILL GOING ON AS IT WAS BEFORE THEY RAN TOWARDS THE BEAM! And if that is really the end and there's no DLC addition, then we have to make up the entire end of the story in our heads.

If all the stuff that we see really did happen (Reapers and synthetics being destroyed, mass relays, etc.) then it's not in his head, is not indoctrination, and is "true."

So, which is it? You can't have it both ways.


That is why  they would've needed to explain the Indoctrination for it to be their intention in the original ending(and this is just basing it off the game, not what they said about the ending before the game came out)

. Why would the Reapers go through the trouble of Indoctrinating Shepard? And if that is the case, why would Destroy even be an option?

And yes, it makes no sense to say that he breaks the indoctrination in the "Best" Destroy ending, because then it means that Synthesis/Control and the "Bad" Destroy endings were just hallucinations and none of them could have possibly happened. If he is indeed Indoctrinated and wakes up on Earth in the rubbel pile by breaking it, does that mean that he dies while Indoctrinated if he picks Synthesis/Control or the "bad" destroy endings?

Geneaux486 wrote...

You did read it out of context. The point I was
responding to was that because the choices you made in the first two
games had visible outcomes, such should be the case for the end of the
third, to which I responded that we saw the results of those choices
because there were sequels to show them in, while the final game in the
series has no such luxury.


Oh I see, my bad. Still, Bioware will have a hard time making a new game in the series unless they retcon for Indoctrination now or just go with control or destroy if Indoctrination doesn't apply.


It's coercion, not blatant mind control or brainwashing. Your seconds away from putting your plan into action and winning the war and the only Ace the reapers have left up their sleeve is to convince you it's the wrong choice to make.

Why the hell does it always have to be all or nothing for everyone? Seriously? Not everything in life is black and white. Yes I think the only say to wipe out the Reapers may have actually been to wipe out all synthetic life forms. Maybe even that was bull**** too. I don't know or care. I think the reapers are bending the truth to try and convince me the idea I've had that the survival of the universe depends on isn't as good as the ideas they have. There may be some truth in some of the things they say and they're may not. I don't care to distinguish which is which because I don't need to. I, again, don't need my hand to be held.

However the game managed to do it, it MADD me consider the very thoughts I despised from Saren and TIM's brainwashed minds as viable solutions to end this war for a second, and then it hit me what was going on and I realized that as sad as ending the Geth after all that would make me, it wad the only option.

Keep nitpicking at every single detail of you want. There's really no confusion for me though. The big picture it that I almost believed that my own plan was no better than the reapers' and their plans weren't so bad after all, but didn't fall for it in the end.

Anyone here ever have to write a college thesis or something of that nature and find that every single detail of the literature they were analyzing supported their thesis? Hell no. That's not how theorizing works. Even if some of you DO happen to find ways to poke holes in some minor aspects of what I think the ending meant to me, why bother?

If you can't draw your own conclusions from what you've been given or simply don't want to/ think Bioware should draw more of it out for you, oh well. Your loss, to be honest.

#170
Wolven_Soul

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You do not have to have ambigious, vague endings to make them thought provoking.  If I wanted to come up with my own endings to this story, I would write a fanfic.  I don't play video games to try and think up my own conclusions about the ending, especially not at the end of a trilogy.  I want to know how the story of Shepherd ends, I don't want to have to try and figure it out.

#171
Ultra Prism

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what was insulting the epilogue text - Commander Shepard became a legend after getting rid of Reaper threat .... .blah blah dowloadable content" wow seriously ... I didnt feel like I was legend in end of game more I like there goes ME down the drain ...

#172
kaidanluv

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I started my third run-through of the Mass Effect series today with ME1. I watched side quests pop up and I wondered whether or not I should do them to see if this playthrough turns out different from my others. Then I thought to myself, eh, either way, once I get to ME3 it's not going to matter anyway. The ending's always going to be the same. So I didn't do them.

This shouldn't be the feeling I'm left with after playing the very last chapter of a trilogy about choice.

#173
No Snakes Alive

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SumthingStupid789 wrote...

how about the fact that this was going to be the end of the shepard trilogy but it didnt end


O rly?

Don't forget to shoot the marauder, bro. It actually does end shortly thereafter, in my case with Shepard surviving and destroying the reapers. Not sure how much more of an ending some of you need lol.

#174
OblivionDawn

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Oh hey I can be pointlessly contrary too.

I disagree.

#175
No Snakes Alive

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Wolven_Soul wrote...

You do not have to have ambigious, vague endings to make them thought provoking.  If I wanted to come up with my own endings to this story, I would write a fanfic.  I don't play video games to try and think up my own conclusions about the ending, especially not at the end of a trilogy.  I want to know how the story of Shepherd ends, I don't want to have to try and figure it out.



ONCE AGAIN, my Shepard either survives and destroys the reapers, saving the universe (though it's a mess now), or gives in to Indoctrination and dies and fails to save the universe. I didn't really have to draw my own conclusion here, I just had to have the brains to put two as two together and figure out who the **** this little kid was and why he was trying to convince me Synthesis and Control were pretty good ideas comparatively.

That's really not that hard to figure out lmao! It's like, a given almost. Holy crap.