172 réponses à ce sujet

[Peer of the Empire]

VigilancePress wrote...

If they rebuilt ME1 using the ME2-3 engine and released it as a "Special Edition" for all platforms, I'd be ALL over that. Specially if they included all the DLC and just released it on disc. For the PS3. So I could finally play that story on my big screen tv instead of on my work computer.

Just hook up computer to tv

[slimgrin]

secretagentbw wrote...

Does anyone feel that the graphics (with the characters especially) in ME1 & ME2 were better than they are in ME3? I remember playing ME1 and even my sisters who don't play video games were were impressed with the graphics. ME2 was pretty good as well, but for some reason the characters in ME3 seem especially fake to me. Particularly that reporter Diana Allers, but even the returning characters don't seem as realistic as they did in the original... Or maybe it was just because that was the first game?

I play on PC and imo ME3 has the best graphics by a susbtantial margin. 

[Vaktathi]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

only world I can recall you can revisit is the Citadel, unless you mean the sidequest/missions worlds, where there's really no Point going back after you complete them... unless of course you missed something.

You can go back to the Citadel, Noveria, Feros, and a number of side mission worlds and a I may be missing a few. Granted yeah, there wasn't always a reason to do so, but sometimes there was (follow up dialogue, etc) and it was nice either way.

I also didn't think the worlds in ME1 were that Expansive, most of the bases/bunkers were copy pasted (something we deride games over now adays) and the enemies weren't all that different from each other and the AI was terrible in a lot of instances.

A lot of this is true, however on most worlds there was a lot more area to explore than we get in ME2. The available area of the Citadel for instance in ME1 is vast compared to ME2 and ME3.


the biggest thing I feel that's missing from a lot of ME2/3 however is that sort of retro-early 90's video game feel that a lot of the environments and music just ooze.

[Cainne Chapel]

True the citadel DID feel vast in ME1 but that was a blessing and a curse for me, after 2 to 3 games it starts getting annoying having to run over SOO much space for a minor mission or two, felt like it was big for no reason ya know?

I think they did a rather good job in ME3 with the new presidum and what not making every "look" bigger but yet quicker to get around in.

[Cainne Chapel]

jess05 wrote...

Why I think ME1 was the better RPG.

Where you put your points mattered more, and allowed for a bit more unique character builds. Beyond the class Choice.

classes were restricted to certain armor types. Heavy, Medium, Light. Some classes could train to the next highest tier.
classes were restricted to certain weapons, unless they trained to use something else.

Not only could you armor Shepard, but squadmates. Quarian, Krogan, Turian specific armors.
You could also swap Biotic amps, tech amps etc...

Now, any class can use any weapon and theres armor. Plain and simple. Choose a color.


Placing skill points was much better in 1 IMO, becasue you had to decide what was important to your build, and also made squad choice a bit more important.

For example, If Shepard had no Decrypt skill in ME1, try opening doors without Tali there to hack it for you.
Now, Shep can hack anything.  It made characters individual strenghts mean something.

More Skills overall, not just 4.

In me 2 you were restricted by weapons and i thought for the most part skills mattered VERY little unless dumping large amounts of points into them.  But just like in ME2 and in ME3 you cant level up ALL your skills but EACH level has a bigger impact than it did in ME1.  

I feel however ME3 did more right in the weapons regard than wrong since shepard can use whatever class of weapon he feels he needs for the mission, sure certain classes are BETTER at certain weapons than others as they have more need than other ones, but i feel its a nice touch that my sentinel can choose between all 5 classes as needed or go with more but take a hit in power refreshing rate.

Granted you have less skills but thats because they got rid of some uneeded skills like the gun skills and what not not.  Also the hacking skills for the most part were unneeded in ME2 and ME3 because you were raiding crates and lockers so much. I did prefer the bypass games in ME2 over 1 though.  But a lot of the combat applications of those skills just got rolled up into different powers.  Which I think the condensation of that was a good thing. It helped combat out immeasurably.

I'll give you that the armor system with light medium and heavy is a part i miss, but other than being bulkier they all pretty much looked the same and you could say the same with choose a color as that and stats is what it boiled down too, now armor just gives bonuses to certain stats.

But still i feel the RPG elements were just changed and refined, just because there's a little LESS customization in terms of some pointless stats doesn't necessarily mean its a lesser RPG, just different.
But even for ME 1 it was RPG-lite in a lot of ways.

[dfstone]

I thought the ending to ME2 was the best. Yeah the Reaper Baby as a pushover but the cinematic was pretty awesome.

[Colonist Sole Survivor]

jess05 wrote...
Why I think ME1 was the better RPG.

Where you put your points mattered more, and allowed for a bit more unique character builds. Beyond the class Choice.

classes were restricted to certain armor types. Heavy, Medium, Light. Some classes could train to the next highest tier.
classes were restricted to certain weapons, unless they trained to use something else.

Not only could you armor Shepard, but squadmates. Quarian, Krogan, Turian specific armors.
You could also swap Biotic amps, tech amps etc...

Now, any class can use any weapon and theres armor. Plain and simple. Choose a color.


Placing skill points was much better in 1 IMO, becasue you had to decide what was important to your build, and also made squad choice a bit more important.

For example, If Shepard had no Decrypt skill in ME1, try opening doors without Tali there to hack it for you.
Now, Shep can hack anything.  It made characters individual strenghts mean something.

More Skills overall, not just 4.

This post is gold.


and this:

Euno17 wrote...


How many times did
you feel like something awesome was happening in ME-1? fifty million
times? The first mission when you find your training spectre officer
dead and Saren trying to escape maybe?  Or when you found the first
prothean beacon?  or when you become the first human spectre? There are
so many awesome moments in ME-1!

Sovereign is by far the best
Reaper (with the best lines). Everything about ME-1's story is great.
Saren being a renegade Spectre and you hunting him down.

Saren
was by far the best mini-boss/encounters you face in the trilogy (Don't
get me started on the Assasin arc of the ME-3 story - that was so forced
it was pathetic. I was pissed off at how many times he 'magically'
wins. What a poorly done mini-boss/character.).

You also fight a
Matriarch in ME-1 (and also save or kill a Rachni Queen) a thorian . . .
you have prothean beacons to uncover (which worked so much better then
those stupid dreams in ME-3). Saren also tries to 'control' the Krogan
and build his own army . . .

Lets not forget the ending to ME-1. You oepning up the relay to let the 5th fleet in - man what a feeling.

[jess05]

I would agree, that even ME1 could be considered a light RPG.


TBH, Ive always been a fan of the way Oblivion/Skyrim handled skills.
You use whatever you want, any way you want. You might suck at it, and be highly inefficient, but you could do it.
But given time and practice, you got better and eventually could master whatever skill you were aiming for.
Even if that meant playing a all out mage wearing heavy armor. Probably not ideal, but quite possible.

Rather than x amount of points to spend after x amount of experience points.

This method always felt more natural .. so to speak, for me.

Modifié par jess05, 30 mars 2012 - 04:24 .

[Cainne Chapel]

Its funny though when you think about it, all 3 games were great, but all 3 games also had a lot of GLARING gameplay issues and even plot holes (which is a whole 'nother argument).

But I think the debates we are having here are a testament to how good the games and even the series as a whole is...since it makes us such fervent fans.

I know i've spent WAAY too much of my life on Mass Effect (hundreds...and hundreds of hours)...and dammit i'd do it again.

[slimgrin]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Its funny though when you think about it, all 3 games were great, but all 3 games also had a lot of GLARING gameplay issues and even plot holes (which is a whole 'nother argument).

Yes, although I feel ME3 takes the crown on that front. All 3 games had examples of lazy design/filler content as well.

Modifié par slimgrin, 30 mars 2012 - 04:35 .

[Cainne Chapel]

jess05 wrote...

I would agree, that even ME1 could be considered a light RPG.


TBH, Ive always been a fan of the way Oblivion/Skyrim handled skills.
You use whatever you want, any way you want. You might suck at it, and be highly inefficient, but you could do it.
But given time and practice, you got better and eventually could master whatever skill you were aiming for.
Even if that meant playing a all out mage wearing heavy armor. Probably not ideal, but quite possible.

Rather than x amount of points to spend after x amount of experience points.

This method always felt more natural .. so to speak, for me.

I agree that style of play aslways felt more natural to me as well, let me wear/fight with what I like even If i'm terribly inefficient... i find the challenge fun sometimes.

Of course i could always play an adept with a penchant for sniper rifles and shot guns... i'll be penalized like crazy for it... but it can be fun

[DarthCaine]

Epic moments in the endings:

ME1: Destroying Sovereign and Shepard coming out from the wreckage
ME2: Escaping from the Collector Base
ME3: Shepard and Anderson dying. THAT'S HOW ME3 ENDS. THERE'S NO MAGICAL RIDE IN A SPACE ELEVATOR, THERE'S NO KID

Modifié par DarthCaine, 30 mars 2012 - 04:26 .

[Cainne Chapel]

slimgrin wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Its funny though when you think about it, all 3 games were great, but all 3 games also had a lot of GLARING gameplay issues and even plot holes (which is a whole 'nother argument).

Yes, although I feel ME3 takes the crown on that front. All 3 games had examples of lazy design/filler conent as well.

I can think of a lot of issues in ME3 but thats only because its the most recent (and not heavily scrutinized) game of the series, but ME2 and even ME1 had some issues as welll that were pointed out in their heyday quite a bit.  So I dont hink we can just fault ME3 for having the crown.... I know ME2 got a LOT a LOT of flak too on the BSN.


Two things gameplay wise anyway that stick out for me is Benezia and Reaper Saren.... it just seemed silly to me Sovreign would lose all power by "empowering" sovereign to Geth hopper shepard and crew and that benezia got weak by "summoning" geth and commandos... for some reason those two battle stuck out as poorly designed to me...  didn't detract from my enjoyment of the game mind you but did make me go "Huh?" a number of times...

Modifié par Cainne Chapel, 30 mars 2012 - 04:29 .

[Kyda]

Yeah, I have played the 3 games and even if ME3 was really good (despite the auto dialog) and I was thinking it was the cherry on top of the sundae, the end (as artistic as it could be) just feels empty. That feeling at the end of ME1 is epic. I do give ME2 credits for the best final mission (the whole pick teams and chars to do different things with different outcomes). I have to say I was expecting some of that with ME3 it was really sad that the last mission was reduced again to pick 2 of them and go. It sorts of diminishes the "build up a team". I mean, what for? The Normandy doesn´t need them to flight and fight. And of course the not know nothing about them by the end of the game is what gives you the "what?! That can´t be it" feeling. At least not for the end of the trilogy. I understand that they could add DLC and stuff but it just feels wrong that people who bought the game doesn´t get the complete end. And if that´s the complete end then at least throw in some epilogues that´s not a lot to ask. I can´t help but feel sad about this. I have to say that overall I think that ME1 was the best of the series for me, even though I love the interrupts and ME2 final mission and ME3 interactions between the teammates.

[Siansonea]

What would be ideal at this point would be for BioWare to create a "Master Edition", which is essentially ME1 with better graphics and updated combat mechanics, and then a "Skip ME2" button, and then a "Cut To The Chase" button to get directly to your preferred colorful Deus Ex Machina explosion. Really, the last two games could just be cutscenes, it's not like anything you do actually plays out all that differently.

I think ME1 also benefitted from our hopes and optimism. When I saved the rachni queen, I imagined that ME2 or ME3 would be a very different game just based on that one decision. There would be rachni living peacefully on the Citadel or something, and maybe we'd have a rachni squadmate, or maybe the rachni would turn on us and be an enemy, but killing the rachni queen would make them absent in the later games and my Renegade Shepards would pat themselves on the back for a wise decision. Turns out that Epic Decision really just amounts to meeting her again in one mission, or meeting a monster you don't know. Ugh! That wasn't what I had in mind when I was told that my actions would have far-reaching consequences. The rachni in ME3 are pretty much the same (i.e., Ravagers) whether you save the rachni queen or not. Boo! I created multiple Shepards, some of whom killed the rachni queen, others who saved her, just to see that one scene play out slightly differently? Really? And BioWare thought we'd be satisfied by that?

[kalle90]

Kyda wrote...

Yeah, I have played the 3 games and even if ME3 was really good (despite the auto dialog) and I was thinking it was the cherry on top of the sundae, the end (as artistic as it could be) just feels empty. That feeling at the end of ME1 is epic. I do give ME2 credits for the best final mission (the whole pick teams and chars to do different things with different outcomes). I have to say I was expecting some of that with ME3 it was really sad that the last mission was reduced again to pick 2 of them and go. It sorts of diminishes the "build up a team". I mean, what for? The Normandy doesn´t need them to flight and fight. And of course the not know nothing about them by the end of the game is what gives you the "what?! That can´t be it" feeling. At least not for the end of the trilogy. I understand that they could add DLC and stuff but it just feels wrong that people who bought the game doesn´t get the complete end. And if that´s the complete end then at least throw in some epilogues that´s not a lot to ask. I can´t help but feel sad about this. I have to say that overall I think that ME1 was the best of the series for me, even though I love the interrupts and ME2 final mission and ME3 interactions between the teammates.

I wasn't expecting so much a chance to plan this "assault on Earth", I can see other people doing that.

What I expected was seeing tons of NPCs storming through the battlefield like in the videos. Instead when you take control of Shepard it's like everyone vanished except for a couple of scripted individuals. It would be epic if some Turian/Geth/Asari/Krogan groundtroops ran at your side, sniping on rooftops, flying ships, Quarians setting up turrets and repairing vehicles. Heck, even having all your 6-7 squadmates backing you up instead of waiting back somewhere. Endless ambient voices, screams, gunshots and radio chatter.

Since KOTOR I have expected a chance to have all my squad join a battle. It sort of happens in Baldurs Gates so why not here. IMO it's just a testament to how awful gameplay Bioware can deliver. I'd expect something COD/Halo/BF-esque full scale assault with bodies dropping like flies just so more can enter the screen. If you don't have much assets, you run out of people.

Heck, the last storm to the beam was perhaps the best part of all game. I actually thought that is the start of the battle. And then 10 seconds later it was all over.


EDIT:
Also, jess05 and Siansonea II describe my feelings perfectly, gameplay and storywise. In ME1 it felt like there would be dozens if not hundreds of very unique paths. Nope. But that happens when they design the trilogy so that people can jump in at ME2 or ME3, they can't put much resources on thinking all the dozen ways Rachni could affect ME2/3.

Modifié par kalle90, 30 mars 2012 - 05:07 .

[slimgrin]

Siansonea II wrote...

What would be ideal at this point would be for BioWare to create a "Master Edition", which is essentially ME1 with better graphics and updated combat mechanics, and then a "Skip ME2" button, and then a "Cut To The Chase" button to get directly to your preferred colorful Deus Ex Machina explosion. Really, the last two games could just be cutscenes, it's not like anything you do actually plays out all that differently.

I think ME1 also benefitted from our hopes and optimism. When I saved the rachni queen, I imagined that ME2 or ME3 would be a very different game just based on that one decision. There would be rachni living peacefully on the Citadel or something, and maybe we'd have a rachni squadmate, or maybe the rachni would turn on us and be an enemy, but killing the rachni queen would make them absent in the later games and my Renegade Shepards would pat themselves on the back for a wise decision. Turns out that Epic Decision really just amounts to meeting her again in one mission, or meeting a monster you don't know. Ugh! That wasn't what I had in mind when I was told that my actions would have far-reaching consequences. The rachni in ME3 are pretty much the same (i.e., Ravagers) whether you save the rachni queen or not. Boo! I created multiple Shepards, some of whom killed the rachni queen, others who saved her, just to see that one scene play out slightly differently? Really? And BioWare thought we'd be satisfied by that?

Spot on. I would kill to have the combat from ME2 in ME1. A remastered edition would be positively awesome, but it will never happen with EA at the helm.

[shnellegaming]

tehturian wrote...

 All I can say is...what an ending. This is perhaps the 6th or 7th time I've completed it however I still get shivers down my spine when I see Shepherd emerging from the rubble with a smirk. It's a shame that the other Mass effect games couldn't capture that "f yeah" emotion. 

well said

[Kyda]

kalle90 wrote...

Since KOTOR I have expected a chance to have all my squad join a battle. It sort of happens in Baldurs Gates so why not here. IMO it's just a testament to how awful gameplay Bioware can deliver. I'd expect something COD/Halo/BF-esque full scale assault with bodies dropping like flies just so more can enter the screen. If you don't have much assets, you run out of people.

You know, now that you mention KOTOR. I have to say this time I had a similar feeling than when I finished KOTOR 2 (I know it is not a Bioware game). After playing the first I thought the second would be as good and for a moment it was, I liked Kreia a lot it was a great character and the story was promising... but then the end came and I was like... WHAT?!!. I didn´t had any of the mods or patches installed so I played it as it came out (like ME3) and it felt pretty much like with this game... like they had to patch things up and leave it the best they could with the time they got (I want to believe it was "in part" because of lack of time)

[Jazharah]

I have to agree that ME1 had by far the best story. And I can say why, too. In one word:

Coherence.

Mass Effect 1 was coherent from beginning to end. Save for some side-missions it felt like one fluid, coherent and cohesive story line with very interesting twists along the way. The fact there was still a lot of wonder and newness to the universe helped a lot of course.

Mass Effect 2 lacked this coherence due to the many squad mates. Though I still can very much appreciate ME2's story, it could not trump ME1 - also because of the many many plot holes it had. Something ME1 didn't have to deal with.

Mass Effect 3, though emotionally gripping at many points, has the exact same premises as ME2, just without the squad mates: gather resources.

Gathering resources simply does not make for a good, coherent story line. There is no sense of wonder. It's simply "here's your target, this is what you need, go get it." Both ME2 and ME3 were set up like this, while ME1 felt a lot like 'Fellowship of the Ring' to me. It felt organic, fluid, and was only inhibited by its cumbersome gameplay.

BioWare could have done SO much better in the sequels. It's almost embarrassing how they destroy their own lore with plot holes, ret-con and character-ruination. Not to mention the endings. (Though I personally appreciate the intent of ethereal spirituality, it was executed poorly and felt unsatisfying.)

Mind you, I still enjoyed every hour I spent in every game but it could have been so much more.

[Mx_CN3]

I guess I'm in the vast minority by thinking that the ending of ME1 was really lame. The fleet battle and the combat was really great, don't get me wrong, but the "Is Shepard dead? Oh wait, heroic music!" part felt like something from a movie I'd see when I was 5. I very nearly groaned out loud when that happened.

Granted, I'd take that over ME3's ending any day of the week. I still think ME2's ending was by far the best, as it was the perfect ending for the middle of the series.

[Artemis_Entrari]

BioWare got ME1 and ME3's ending mixed up.  ME3's ending (vague, confusing, depressing) should have ended the first or second game, and ME1's ending (player saves the day) should have ended the final game.

[Kyda]

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

BioWare got ME1 and ME3's ending mixed up.  ME3's ending (vague, confusing, depressing) should have ended the first or second game, and ME1's ending (player saves the day) should have ended the final game.

This... although as I said before, if this is the ending they wanted for Shepard then at least we needed closure for the rest of the teammates

[twisty77]

Garland7A wrote...

ME1 had the best ending of the 3 games.
ME2 had the best build up to a final mission (suicide mission).
ME3 has the best combat.
As for the all-time best ending to a game, Red Dead Redemption still holds that spot in my books

I completely agree. RDR, as a whole, has a story that supasses anything in the ME series.

RDR is the only game I have EVER played with a story that beats a ME story.

[Meshaber]

I really don't see where people are getting this "ME1 story and writing were so much brilliantlier than everything else ever" from.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game, and it has one huge advantage over the other two story-wise (Saren)...but what part of it is it that makes people **** all over the story/writing/pacing?

ME1 is filled to the brim with Shepard saying dumb-ass things (in autodialogue), companions just tag along for no good reason (Garrus, Wrex, Tali and Liara are all badly introduced. Especially Liara), Shepard is a robot (when he doesn't go on childish rampages against the schtupid politischians who don't believe hish schcary schtoriesch (bwaaaaahhhh)), it has very little character development, and several key parts of the plot are full of serious derp. Good ending, not amazing.

ME2 has an incredibly weak start. Everything from Lazarus station until you meet Joker is a pure pain, but the rest of the game is amazing even if the main plot doesn't fit in too well with the trilogy. There are derpy moments, but nothing too serious. The ending kicks balls and has this http://www.youtube.c...?v=e2z28mutY1E.
Also, Jack. And this is where Garrus went from a lump of plastic to muddafukkin' batman in space, plus three jupitermasses of pure awesome.

Mass Effect 3 has...issues. It's not perfect, but it trumps the other two games (and pretty much everything else ever made) in every single department, except for the ending. Nothing more to say.

Jade Empire still has the best ending. Ever.