172 réponses à ce sujet

[Euno17]

I think the series was (for most parts) so great because games veren't carbon copies of each others. For example, ME1 is more akin of classic scifi and ME2 has more "cyberpunkish" feel in it. ME3 is a war story, yet again different tone in comparison to previous games.

However,I agree that  some things weren't necessarily change for better. Personally I feel focusing to characters in ME2 might have worked out better if there were less characters. Also, main plot doesn't really go anywhere but in Arrival DLC.
What comes to ME3, I actually wish they were done some reinventing there. It was good that Cerberus story arch was closed, but IMO Cerberus was over used.

I definitely don't agree with this notion at all. It's never a good idea to change things up so much in a planned trilogy particularly if you can't manage to produce the same level of quality (or better) in all areas (and/or EXPAND those areas).

The entire point I would hope of a planned trilogy is so that you WOULD'NT have to keep building from scratch over and over again.

It'd be like a book series drastically changing up it's tone/feel every book while continually dropping vital characters in and out. (yeah I know not exactly the greatest comparsion but I hope you get my point).

I would have thought that with ME-1 they would have a foundation to which to build from. Not wildly change the tone of the game/settings every game. Being killed at the start of ME-2 was just dumb. Sure SOME things might have to change simply due to the way the story went (such as the attack on the Citadel) but for the most part you want some sort of continuation/familarity with all three games. 

For example in ME-2 two years had passed which means the rachni queen probably should have been more then a simple cameo for cameo's sake. Building a foundation and keeping that foundation (like the inventory system intact with just some fine-tuning) would allow for the galaxy to continually expand (not contract/shrink) over time.

Also on the consoles my focus would have been on the gameplay/story and NOT the graphics (which takes up alot of room on the discs). That's the point of the PC. Otherwise you are sacrificing gameplay mechanics (ergo going style over substance).

[BlacJAC74]

My only issue with ME1 was the inane side missions. They were all cut n paste jobs.

[ZLurps]

Euno17 wrote...

I think the series was (for most parts) so great because games veren't carbon copies of each others. For example, ME1 is more akin of classic scifi and ME2 has more "cyberpunkish" feel in it. ME3 is a war story, yet again different tone in comparison to previous games.

However,I agree that  some things weren't necessarily change for better. Personally I feel focusing to characters in ME2 might have worked out better if there were less characters. Also, main plot doesn't really go anywhere but in Arrival DLC.
What comes to ME3, I actually wish they were done some reinventing there. It was good that Cerberus story arch was closed, but IMO Cerberus was over used.

I definitely don't agree with this notion at all. It's never a good idea to change things up so much in a planned trilogy particularly if you can't manage to produce the same level of quality (or better) in all areas (and/or EXPAND those areas).

The entire point I would hope of a planned trilogy is so that you WOULD'NT have to keep building from scratch over and over again.

It'd be like a book series drastically changing up it's tone/feel every book while continually dropping vital characters in and out. (yeah I know not exactly the greatest comparsion but I hope you get my point).

I would have thought that with ME-1 they would have a foundation to which to build from. Not wildly change the tone of the game/settings every game. Being killed at the start of ME-2 was just dumb. Sure SOME things might have to change simply due to the way the story went (such as the attack on the Citadel) but for the most part you want some sort of continuation/familarity with all three games. 

For example in ME-2 two years had passed which means the rachni queen probably should have been more then a simple cameo for cameo's sake. Building a foundation and keeping that foundation (like the inventory system intact with just some fine-tuning) would allow for the galaxy to continually expand (not contract/shrink) over time.

Also on the consoles my focus would have been on the gameplay/story and NOT the graphics (which takes up alot of room on the discs). That's the point of the PC. Otherwise you are sacrificing gameplay mechanics (ergo going style over substance).

In the end I think it's just a matter of personal preference. I have played through ME1 and 2 including all available story DLC's several times and no matter how great ME1 is, going through very much the same 2 more times, would have easily turned out to be tedious at some point.

[Funkcase]

It's probably my favourite game of all time. I love the fantastic story, deep characters, and the great soundtrack with it's awsome ambient synths that I felt ME2 and 3 lacked. (Although 3 thankfully brought back some old favourites) It also had a great sense of scope that ME2 and 3 lacked, the universe really felt huge, I really felt like my decisions carried such weight, that I was a small fish is a huge ocean.

For these reasons I can happily overlook the games shortcommings (combat and frame rate) And although it looks dated compared to ME2 and 3 it still actually looks pretty good, and I dont need a game to look good if everything else is there.

[Ravenmyste]

garf wrote...

Damn now I'm feeling the urge to restart from scratch.

gah no fair!! you took my shepard!! lol

i custom made that shep from me1>me2 and 3 i am glad you like it{ only way you can get is if you upload it from you game and or  copy the image and upload from a computer}

[Taritu]

Mass Effect 2's story is ok internally but doesn't fit into the trilogy. It has no reason to exist. You could ditch it entirely, and ME3 would not be noticeably different, except you'd have to introduce the Illusive Man. Arrival, alone, made ME2 pointless. The Reapers kill more humans in one day than the Collectors did in their entire spree.

ME1 was the best story for one simple reason, it was written by the original writer, Drew. When Mac took over, he apparently decided to revamp the original plot of the trilogy.

Also the handling of the Reapers in ME2 was atrocious. "This hurts you". Harbinger came across like a trash talking punk. Sovereign, with his disdain, and his treatment of organics as ants, was so much more scary it wasn't even close.

ME1 was also immersive in a way the other games weren't due to open hubs, open world exploration in the MAKO, and due to having to walk on the ship, take elevators and so on (loading screens which didn't break immersion, ME3 has one as well, when you get scanned leaving the conference center on the Normandy.)

Was it the best /game/? Maybe, maybe not. But it had the best story, and it was the most immersive.

[Bleachrude]

sillyrobot wrote...

Batviper wrote...

Well actually, Saren did need the Conduit for a surprise attack inside the Citadel, otherwise he wouldn't be able to board the station with all those troops and just walk up to the console, especially not before the geth and Sovereign attack the Citadel, a single Spectre has no chance against the whole C-sec force.I agree with your first point though.

Saren needed a covert way back onto the Citadel because he was implicated in the attack on Eden Prime which he made... to get a covert way onto the Citadel.

Before the attack on Eden Prime, Saren wouldn't have had any resistance to activating the console -- no one would even question his approach being a respected Spectre and with no threat being identified.  Sovereign and geth fleet sit in deep space waiting to jump in (like they did), Saren resets the controls, the fleet jumps in and charges the Citadel just like at the end only with fewer defences in place.  Sovereign shuts down the mass relays, activates the connection to dark space and voila! No more galactic civilisation.

THANK YOU!!!

Somebody gets it...

The plotline for ME3 doesn't fall apart until the ending whereas the plot for ME1 doesn't work from the start...

[ThomasakaDes_]

VigilancePress wrote...

If they rebuilt ME1 using the ME2-3 engine and released it as a "Special Edition" for all platforms, I'd be ALL over that. Specially if they included all the DLC and just released it on disc. For the PS3. So I could finally play that story on my big screen tv instead of on my work computer.

For that to happen, EA would have to buy the rights to ME1, which is owned by Microsoft, thus why it`s only on Xbox and PC.
And I doubt EA wants to buy the rights, in case Microsoft gets mad at them for wanting to do that.
But seeing as Microsoft is greedy too, they might be willing to sell it if EA offers enough cash
It would be very nice to have all 3 on the same platform.
I would buy ME1 in a heartbeat if I found it on the PS Store xD

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Most startling realization:  Anderson keeps talking about a "Prothean weapon of mass destruction" throughout the game, they knew about the crucible from day 1.

[Cainne Chapel]

Bleachrude wrote...

sillyrobot wrote...

Batviper wrote...

Well actually, Saren did need the Conduit for a surprise attack inside the Citadel, otherwise he wouldn't be able to board the station with all those troops and just walk up to the console, especially not before the geth and Sovereign attack the Citadel, a single Spectre has no chance against the whole C-sec force.I agree with your first point though.

Saren needed a covert way back onto the Citadel because he was implicated in the attack on Eden Prime which he made... to get a covert way onto the Citadel.

Before the attack on Eden Prime, Saren wouldn't have had any resistance to activating the console -- no one would even question his approach being a respected Spectre and with no threat being identified.  Sovereign and geth fleet sit in deep space waiting to jump in (like they did), Saren resets the controls, the fleet jumps in and charges the Citadel just like at the end only with fewer defences in place.  Sovereign shuts down the mass relays, activates the connection to dark space and voila! No more galactic civilisation.

THANK YOU!!!

Somebody gets it...

The plotline for ME3 doesn't fall apart until the ending whereas the plot for ME1 doesn't work from the start...

Well the plot also takes a leap of logic due to the fact that you SEE some soldiers have cameras on the suits (when you first see sovreign while debreifing in the ship) but nobody seems to have a recording, or what not when Nihlus gets gunned down, etc (we cant match bullets anymore?) and so on.
and yet all it takes is a voice recording (which i'm sure could be edited in the future...) at face value....*shrug*

There's little inconsistencies like that throughout the whole series.  and I know we all seem to love Drew and loathe Mac... but even Drew isn't god and he didn't write ME1 all by his lonesome.  But then neither did Mac write all of ME2 and 3.  Both had teams of writers.

People seem to forget that...

[grimkillah]

Bleachrude wrote...

sillyrobot wrote...

Batviper wrote...

Well actually, Saren did need the Conduit for a surprise attack inside the Citadel, otherwise he wouldn't be able to board the station with all those troops and just walk up to the console, especially not before the geth and Sovereign attack the Citadel, a single Spectre has no chance against the whole C-sec force.I agree with your first point though.

Saren needed a covert way back onto the Citadel because he was implicated in the attack on Eden Prime which he made... to get a covert way onto the Citadel.

Before the attack on Eden Prime, Saren wouldn't have had any resistance to activating the console -- no one would even question his approach being a respected Spectre and with no threat being identified.  Sovereign and geth fleet sit in deep space waiting to jump in (like they did), Saren resets the controls, the fleet jumps in and charges the Citadel just like at the end only with fewer defences in place.  Sovereign shuts down the mass relays, activates the connection to dark space and voila! No more galactic civilisation.

THANK YOU!!!

Somebody gets it...

The plotline for ME3 doesn't fall apart until the ending whereas the plot for ME1 doesn't work from the start...

You all wrong, Saren need to find a way to sneak not him, but the Geth ground forces onto the Citadel, enough forces to create diversions so Sovereign can come in during the chaos and reactivate the connection to dark space. Without the Conduit Sovereign can't break through the Citadel Fleet on his own. Even with Geth fleets, lack of ground support will mean the troops on the Citadel might figure out what he is after, and might damage it during the assault. ME1 makes sense until the revelation that Citadel is reaper AI, which made the entire series pointless.

[Tirigon]

Bleachrude wrote...

sillyrobot wrote...

Batviper wrote...

Well actually, Saren did need the Conduit for a surprise attack inside the Citadel, otherwise he wouldn't be able to board the station with all those troops and just walk up to the console, especially not before the geth and Sovereign attack the Citadel, a single Spectre has no chance against the whole C-sec force.I agree with your first point though.

Saren needed a covert way back onto the Citadel because he was implicated in the attack on Eden Prime which he made... to get a covert way onto the Citadel.

Before the attack on Eden Prime, Saren wouldn't have had any resistance to activating the console -- no one would even question his approach being a respected Spectre and with no threat being identified.  Sovereign and geth fleet sit in deep space waiting to jump in (like they did), Saren resets the controls, the fleet jumps in and charges the Citadel just like at the end only with fewer defences in place.  Sovereign shuts down the mass relays, activates the connection to dark space and voila! No more galactic civilisation.

THANK YOU!!!

Somebody gets it...

The plotline for ME3 doesn't fall apart until the ending whereas the plot for ME1 doesn't work from the start...

DID YOU EVEN PLAY ME1?!

Honestly that is BS....

Saren didnt attack Eden Prime to get a covert way into the Citadel, he needed it for the Beacon.
He didnt even know anything about the Citadel being a Mass Relay, the Conduit and everything, just like everyone else.

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Well the plot also takes a leap of
logic due to the fact that you SEE some soldiers have cameras on the
suits (when you first see sovreign while debreifing in the ship) but
nobody seems to have a recording, or what not when Nihlus gets gunned
down, etc (we cant match bullets anymore?) and so on.
and yet all it takes is a voice recording (which i'm sure could be edited in the future...) at face value....*shrug*

There's
little inconsistencies like that throughout the whole series.  and I
know we all seem to love Drew and loathe Mac... but even Drew isn't god
and he didn't write ME1 all by his lonesome.  But then neither did Mac
write all of ME2 and 3.  Both had teams of writers.

People seem to forget that...

Noone except the dockworker was present at the murder... and the Council decided (not entirely unreasonable, to be honest) to take the word of their best spectre over that of a human civilian who is likely under shock after seeing his colony slaughtered.
Matching bullets doesnt work due to the fact that slugs arent even real bullets, they are just metal generated in the weapon, and at any rate Saren could easily let the gun he used disappear, being a spectre and all.

As for the recording being believed immediately: Yea that kind of baffled me as well. But I suppose it is impossible to fake Geth data, so its source can be proven undoubtedly.

[Sgt Reed 24]

Getorex wrote...

The first one has THE story. It is/has been hard (obviously) for Bioware to match it. It was EXTREMELY well laid out, built up, revealed, and concluded.

I wonder why...

oh right, Mac Walters didn't write it. 

[Cainne Chapel]

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

The first one has THE story. It is/has been hard (obviously) for Bioware to match it. It was EXTREMELY well laid out, built up, revealed, and concluded.

I wonder why...

oh right, Mac Walters didn't write it. 

as much as I like drew, I think you're giving him WAY to much credit and Mac WAY to little.

Its not like they wrote the whole games by themselves.  They were only the lead writers.

They had TEAMS.  Besides Mac isn't that bad either and its not like he's the only one working ont he story.

[Sgt Reed 24]

NightKay wrote...

I'm replaying Mass Effect 1, already made and finished with two characters, I'm on my third one, I actually like the first one more for the RPG elements, I just hate the cover/run system and the graphics, better designed worlds for the mako levels would be awesome also.

No doubt... if there was actual detail on those uncharted worlds and something to actually explore like settlements, ruins, etc ... ME1 would be GODLIKE compared to the other two. 

Exploration is something that the latest two games have sorely lacked. Although, I didn't really like the exploration in ME1 b/c of what I said above... it was just a barren rock with like one outpost and tons of mountains. But in a game that is set in space... exploration is a must IMO. So many possibilities with it. 

[Bleachrude]

grimkillah wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

sillyrobot wrote...

Batviper wrote...

Well actually, Saren did need the Conduit for a surprise attack inside the Citadel, otherwise he wouldn't be able to board the station with all those troops and just walk up to the console, especially not before the geth and Sovereign attack the Citadel, a single Spectre has no chance against the whole C-sec force.I agree with your first point though.

Saren needed a covert way back onto the Citadel because he was implicated in the attack on Eden Prime which he made... to get a covert way onto the Citadel.

Before the attack on Eden Prime, Saren wouldn't have had any resistance to activating the console -- no one would even question his approach being a respected Spectre and with no threat being identified.  Sovereign and geth fleet sit in deep space waiting to jump in (like they did), Saren resets the controls, the fleet jumps in and charges the Citadel just like at the end only with fewer defences in place.  Sovereign shuts down the mass relays, activates the connection to dark space and voila! No more galactic civilisation.

THANK YOU!!!

Somebody gets it...

The plotline for ME3 doesn't fall apart until the ending whereas the plot for ME1 doesn't work from the start...

You all wrong, Saren need to find a way to sneak not him, but the Geth ground forces onto the Citadel, enough forces to create diversions so Sovereign can come in during the chaos and reactivate the connection to dark space. Without the Conduit Sovereign can't break through the Citadel Fleet on his own. Even with Geth fleets, lack of ground support will mean the troops on the Citadel might figure out what he is after, and might damage it during the assault. ME1 makes sense until the revelation that Citadel is reaper AI, which made the entire series pointless.

He needed to sneak into the citadel because he had to find the beacon to find out about the conduit which allowed him to SNEAK into the citadel....

Right and that's not circular logic:pinched::pinched:

At ANY time prior to ME1, why didn't Saren simply go to the citadel DIRECTLY when nobody was thinking he was a traitor but was "greatest spectre ever" and access the controls directly...Remember, it was Shepard who needed Vigil on Ilos to give him the codes to directly control the citadel...

Saren didn't need that AT ALL.

Simply walk in, time it so that the geth and sovereign simply emerge from the relay and while everyone is going WTF, simply walk in and take control of the citadel when practically everyone would actually be thinking Saren was on their side...

EDIT: recordings

That actually was a bigger problem with ME2 since apparently NOBODY during the entirety of ME1 was recording anything even though the game in ME1, makes mention of the fact that the combat suits have inbuilt camers/recorders..so there's no proof Shep isn't a crazy person...

Modifié par Bleachrude, 01 avril 2012 - 04:41 .

[Ravenmyste]

yes i just started new game from me1 and i am going to continue thru it to see if there is away to get the perfect game to save everyone in me3 seem li lock in me3 kills people that you have lied and switched or rekindle once laira ask you if you want to e friend or continue on with you current li{ i plan on doing tail/miri romance to see if i can infact save miri since i cant seem to save her no mater what i do as following the wiki information and i did everything except romance her so that may be the reason we shall see

[Cainne Chapel]

you cant save mIri raven? Thats odd even in the games were I HAVEN'T romanced her she always seems to live....

God that woman is harder to kill than shepard!

[Sgt Reed 24]

That's... unbelievable... Miranda has so much plot armor it's ridiculous. The ONLY time she can die in the SM is if she isn't loyal and you don't have enough points at hold the line. (She might also die if not loyal at the reaper battle, not sure) Romancing her doesn't matter.

Just get everyone loyal and you're guaranteed to have Miranda survive.

[Tirigon]

Bleachrude wrote...

He needed to sneak into the citadel because he had to find the beacon to find out about the conduit which allowed him to SNEAK into the citadel....

Right and that's not circular logic:pinched::pinched:

At ANY time prior to ME1, why didn't Saren simply go to the citadel DIRECTLY when nobody was thinking he was a traitor but was "greatest spectre ever" and access the controls directly...Remember, it was Shepard who needed Vigil on Ilos to give him the codes to directly control the citadel...

Saren didn't need that AT ALL.

Simply walk in, time it so that the geth and sovereign simply emerge from the relay and while everyone is going WTF, simply walk in and take control of the citadel when practically everyone would actually be thinking Saren was on their side...

What makes you believe that Saren didnt need the Conduit?

I may be wrong (my last ME1 run was years ago, and currently I am only at the beginning) but the way I understood he didnt know much more than Shep, which is why you chase him to Ilos to begin with.

[Getorex]

Tirigon wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

He needed to sneak into the citadel because he had to find the beacon to find out about the conduit which allowed him to SNEAK into the citadel....

Right and that's not circular logic:pinched::pinched:

At ANY time prior to ME1, why didn't Saren simply go to the citadel DIRECTLY when nobody was thinking he was a traitor but was "greatest spectre ever" and access the controls directly...Remember, it was Shepard who needed Vigil on Ilos to give him the codes to directly control the citadel...

Saren didn't need that AT ALL.

Simply walk in, time it so that the geth and sovereign simply emerge from the relay and while everyone is going WTF, simply walk in and take control of the citadel when practically everyone would actually be thinking Saren was on their side...

What makes you believe that Saren didnt need the Conduit?

I may be wrong (my last ME1 run was years ago, and currently I am only at the beginning) but the way I understood he didnt know much more than Shep, which is why you chase him to Ilos to begin with.

Also...I understood him to be indoctrinated.  That isn't instantaneous.  I just got he found bits and pieces out, explored/investigated, got in deeper, started getting indoctrinated...it flows from there.  He wasn't just evil/bad from day 1.  He had to be turned by the Reapers (Sovereign). 

[Il Divo]

Tirigon wrote...

What makes you believe that Saren didnt need the Conduit?

I may be wrong (my last ME1 run was years ago, and currently I am only at the beginning) but the way I understood he didnt know much more than Shep, which is why you chase him to Ilos to begin with.

He didn't know everything compared to Shepard, but he was affiliated with Sovereign, which gave him access to knowledge regarding what the Reapers were, what Sovereign wanted, and how he could get it. Sovereign knew everything which was necessary to actually take control of the Citadel; this is why Saren didn't need Vigil's codes. Far as we know, Saren was already aware of what the Conduit was capable of. The problem is the back door onto the Citadel is more risky than simply walking onto the Citadel under his Spectre cover and playing with the control panel.

Modifié par Il Divo, 01 avril 2012 - 05:32 .

[freestylez]

Interesting points about Saren simply just infiltrating the Citadel controls.

Can we just assume the Citadel controls are always just sitting there unguarded? I mean Saren brought the Geth ground troops to completely overrun the Citadel. It is possible that they needed to overwhelm C-Sec and even perhaps get access to security overrides in order to access the control panel.

Even if Saren attempted to walk into the Citadel before Eden Prime, he may have had to get past Citadel security to access the main controls.