54 réponses à ce sujet

[beserker7]

Hey, I've done 2 full playthroughs and 4-5 partial ones to unlock all special talent chains. I must say I hope in any sequel Bioware will move the Lockpicking to the skills section, so all classes can dip into it. My main reason is that in DA-Origins your forced to play will Leliana, or be a rogue, if you want to open chests. I know you can also use Zevron, but when you get him he has no Lockpicking, so you can not max him out in it, until like level16.
 
I hope they correct this, cause as much as I like Leliana, adding access to this as a skill for the main PC would make it easier to have a more diverse roster. Opening chests and gaining loot is important and only having one party memeber for most of the game that can do it, is a weak spot, IMO.

[Enoch VG]

A) Opening lock and traps isn't all that important. (And most of the importance is in the XP gain rather than the loot)



I think the rogue-warrior split should be abolished, and all non-magic-user talents should be available to all non-magic-users. The division is arbitrary (everyone can learn to pick pockets, but only rogues can learn to pick locks?) and doesn't really add anything to the game, other than the comfort of the traditional Wizard/Fighter/Thief class choice.

[DarrenHollywood]

Zevren does not have lockpicking because he doesn't need it. He is built to be a Cunning Rogue, so his Cunning score will make up for his lack of Lockpicking talents.

(My current character is a cunning rogue and I have been able to unlock everything so far with only 1 rank in lockpicking)



The game doesn't require you to lockpick anything. I like that they added something special for rogues.

[metatrans]

i completely agree. lockpicking doesn't feel at all like a talent. all the other talents are combat related. lockpicking is not.



similarly the combat mastery and combat tactics skills feel out of place. they're combat related and thus different than other skills.



in my opinion lockpicking should be made a skill available to all characters. rogues should automatically start with level 1 lockpicking though. (and level 1 stealing as well).



combat mastery and combat tactics should be removed from the game in my opinion. they wouldn't be appropriate as talents either. basically you should just gain the benefit of them automatically as you level up. level 1 gives you automatic level 1 combat mastery. level 4 automatic level 2 combat mastery. level 8 gives automatic level 3 combat mastery. level 12 gives automatic level 4 combat mastery.



combat tactics should also just be rolled into the levelling process. you should just gain 1 talent slot every 2 levels. period. start the game with 2 spots, 3rd spot at 4, 4th at 6, etc. a level 20 character in the endgame could hvae like 10 or 11 tactic slots. would be very nice and let you set some cool tactics that could include some low level scripting stuff.

[Beerfish]

DarrenHollywood wrote...

Zevren does not have lockpicking because he doesn't need it. He is built to be a Cunning Rogue, so his Cunning score will make up for his lack of Lockpicking talents.
(My current character is a cunning rogue and I have been able to unlock everything so far with only 1 rank in lockpicking)

The game doesn't require you to lockpick anything. I like that they added something special for rogues.

And yet the guy can't pick a locks at all because he has NO ranks in lock picking at all when you get him (at least when I picked him up in my last game).  Yeah Zevran lied to me when he boasted about how useful he was at picking locks. 

In a previous playthough I had high cunning as well but obviously didn't read enough about it as I also put 3 ranks in lock picking.  I was able to pick most things.  I think there were a few later in the game I could not pick.

[Ekyri]

No. Lockpicking isn't critical to your game experience. Want to open that chest? Fine, bring a rogue.

[beserker7]

Glad some of you agree.



And to Ekyri, its the point that that rougue has to be Leliana or you have to be a rogue as your PC. Not alot of options. I would also argue that it is critial if you want to earn any money to buy armour,potion receipes, etc. It is important enough and I'm just saying move it to the skill section, which isn't a huge request for the benifits to choices it would offer.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Maybe we simply need class-specific skills? I don't really have a solid concept in mind, yet, but it'd be nice to switch lockpicking over from talents to skills, even if it's just for rogues.

[Bluesmith]

A better solution might be to give warriors the innate ability to bash locks, with success based on the warrior's STR stat. You can only attempt to bash once, and very difficult locks are not bashable.

Or give Dog have a "tear lock" ability similar to this, perhaps with a success rate more comparable to lockpicking, so that one doesn't feel quite so gimped by bringing him along.

[Gliese]

I think it's a great idea, anything that can increase the interest in skills are good since most of them are so marginal anyhow. Rogues still have stealth along with backstab and unique talents, enough imo to make them interesting and valuable even with Lockpicking as a skill available to all (not to mention that they get more skill points and thus still is best suited for utility stuff of that kind).

[Mork_ba]

Bah, it's better as a skill imo.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I like it as a talent. I'd probably make Stealth a talent, too.

[Altharas]

I agree it should be a skill, because the extra skill points rogue gain (every 2 levels instead of 3) are going to waste. However, i think Lockpicking AND Pickpocketing should be Rogue only skills. So, they make use of their extra skill points and there's still a reason to bring a rogue along.

[beserker7]

Good thoughts all, I hope they take note for the sequel.

[Gliese]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I like it as a talent. I'd probably make Stealth a talent, too.

It is a talent.

[Wonderllama4]

yeah. all classes should be able to open locks... "easy" locks at least. rogues can be useful for opening the "hard" locks with the best treasure

[Andraste_Reborn]

I think they put it under talents to increase the utility of the rogue class, since any class can learn any skills. On the whole. I'd prefer it was under skills, but I can see why they made that decision.

[Taleroth]

I like it as a talent.

[Nomcookie]

Wonderllama4 wrote...

yeah. all classes should be able to open locks... "easy" locks at least. rogues can be useful for opening the "hard" locks with the best treasure

If there were actually chests with "treasure". As it stands, there's nothing beyond vendor loot in there. I can see the argument for making it a skill, but I think it should still be exclusive to rogues. Maybe give warriors the 'lock bash' thing people are talking about, but at a risk of damaging the contents of the chest (I remember KotOR had this, and it seemed fair). That way, rogues don't feel any less special, and you don't have to sink talent points into the deft hands tree.

[Gliese]

If locpicking becomes a skill and the requirement for all chests are pushed up so that it become necessary to have 4 points in lockpicking and a high cunning to open the hardest chests, that would make it possible for any class to be a master locpicker but rogues would still afford it much easier than the other classes with their greater amount of skill points and greater benefit of a high cunning value.

Modifié par Gliese, 03 décembre 2009 - 01:25 .

[Kileyan]

I think lockpicking shouldn't have been in the game at all. Seemed to have been included just because it was a fantasy game staple, yet they didn't want people to feel it was required, so they put in no actual rewards for choosing the skill.



I know my first play through I kept track of every chest I couldn't unlock and went back with a max'd out Leliana(my rogue was more combat related), and after 20 or so chests, I gave up and never found a reason to have the skill, other than to "feel" like a D&D rogue.



So yeh, it should be a skill, not take up combat talents. I'd be perfectly fine with any class being able to unlock stuff. This isn't D&D anymore, a warrior doesn't need to destroy the chest or desk with a huge over hand swing, he could pry it open with a hefty pry bar. A mage could use magic or her brains and some tools.A rogue really doesn't need to be the ONLY person able to pry the hinges of a chest anymore, with some basic tools and common sense.

[Mavkiel]

Am I the only person who wants to kick a developer for not allowing me to get a rod of fire? I mean dear god I can get one of those in 5 minutes of the mage start yet cannot find another to burn through another lock?



its not like it would even be hard to balance. Have a random chance that burning through a locked chest will destroy items inside. For doors, perhaps something that alerts nearby creatures, or even summons creatures to fight you. (I am thinking that the door had a demon bound in it for protection, you bust the door, the demon busts out and busts you.)

[Gliese]

I wouldn't say that the lockpicking talents are useless as it is. My first run was with a rogue and opening every chest in the game probably netted me +2 levels in the end (reached level 22) and got me another of the 80-100 gold power items on sale for the later parts of the game.

[menasure]

i'd say the devs should make up their minds. either get rid of fixed classes all together and you can develop your character towards whatever you want or allow rogues to actually be rogues which means that they're the only ones who can pick locks, use stealth and pick pockets.
as for the rogue pc's: i have not seen a single standard rogue in game yet. they're always missing a base talent and bragging about how they'll succeed in rogue things but fail miserably every time lol. i ended up making my own rogue ... which has advantages of its own storywise.

Modifié par menasure, 03 décembre 2009 - 08:48 .