54 réponses à ce sujet

[crossover.attack]

Modifié par crossover.attack, 03 décembre 2009 - 02:57 .

[hOnOr]

There should definitely be a "knock" line of spells.

[CJohnJones]

I kind of disagree. You also need a mage (besides the occasional novelty power-gamer). You also need a tank (see above). Everybody is needed somehow.



And yeah, you can toss one level of lockpicking on Zev and pump his cunning. He likes that.

[Pellegrin]

I think what I would prefer is to leave lockpicking as a talent but enhance the contents of locked chests significantly the first time you are in the area. Once you leave an area the chest contents degrade. So bringing a rogue along to pick locks leaves you less battle ready but if you want the good stuff you can't just come back later picking all the locks.

[Marvin TPA]

I normally gravitate to rogues in games and think it is fine as it is. Take away these thievery talents and rogues end up as little more than a (very powerful) speciality warrior.

[Gliese]

Pellegrin wrote...

I think what I would prefer is to leave lockpicking as a talent but enhance the contents of locked chests significantly the first time you are in the area. Once you leave an area the chest contents degrade. So bringing a rogue along to pick locks leaves you less battle ready but if you want the good stuff you can't just come back later picking all the locks.

The only problem with that is that if you're not playing a rogue you're going to miss out on a lot of good stuff in your origin (at least some), Ostagar and the Korcari Wilds. As it is I hate to give up the xp of all those locations, would be much worse if I actually missed out on good loot as well.

[Draconus Kahn]

In most games rogues have lockpicking and finding/disabling traps as a matter of course. With how nerfed rogue is on this game, they really should have made those two abilities in one easy to access talent chain.. I get ticked when I think of all the treasure I miss when I want to play an evil character that will eventually lose Leliana (if I make a certain choice.. you know, the one that gives reaper), and have to fall back on Zevran for rogue abilities. I basically lose dmg for scouting skills.



Now, mostly, it's a worthy sacrifice. But, with rogue so gimped as it is, can we really sacrifice DW + assasin skills just to pander to our need to find every treasure or disable every trap? This is a question I have trouble answering to myself every time I am faced with the rogue dilemna (that is, of course, if I am not the rogue myself.)



Sorry for the rant. But, some things just bug me in this class. It could have been so much better if the backstab spikes were higher and the device mastery included lock picking ability. Kay, I'm done. Feed back please lol. Thanks

[Gliese]

Rogues are nerfed? Hadn't noticed.

[ogreballerina2]

Only end game is lock picking worth anything ( There is one minor quest though)

Most of the stuff is junk...except for the occasional magic arrow.

You only need one lockpicking talent and high cunning to unlock most every box,,,,and if your going cunning rogue....why not?

Other then that...( there are a few gifts in locked boxes )

So not worth it...

In BG2 a rogue was a rogue....DA:O...not so much...



Take whats her name after you've cleared out an area and have her pick the locks...

[middlemagic]

Leave devices as a skill.

Let everyone detect traps.

Add strength checks for opening most locks (any chest type) and disarming some traps (bear trap wrestling sounds like a fun sport).

Add knock and allow trap destruction via spells.

There, everyone can handle traps and locks which are rather worthless.

Modifié par middlemagic, 04 décembre 2009 - 12:48 .

[Sidney]

Lockpicking is the only non-combat talent, all other non-combat actions are skills. It is inconsistent and done solely because talents are class-based and skills are universal. It is unfair to hurt rogue combat skills so they can open the mostly useless chests.



I'm more irked that Sten's massive hammer can't seem to open up most chests.

[Gliese]

I was a rogue that reached level 22 in the first game. Had I not opened chests at all I would probably have ended up at level 20. I could have gone by with only 2 talent points in the lockpicking tree and still opened every chest in the game according to info that's been dug up so far (with the cunning I had). That means it would have evened out and basically payed for itself in terms of talent allocation and given a nice boost in money over the whole of the game besides.

Modifié par Gliese, 04 décembre 2009 - 01:40 .

[SBJ]

Warriors should be able to break up chests and doors with a strength check, and Mages have a Knock-ability.



And of course there's teh trap-issue as well. Even if you got 4 skill points in Traps, you still can't disarm any, not even your own traps. Overall I would say Raogues are just as strong as warriors in combat, if not stronger, except they can't put talent points in 2-handed or shield.



Of course, I started out on easy when I played my first character (rogue) and have gone up to Hard now with my Warrior. But still, in the Origins and in Ostagar, you have no access to a Rogue that can open locks, so you miss out on a great deal by not playing Rogue. And if you do play one, Leliana and Zevran becomes pretty much useless to your party later on.



Perhaps the better solution would be to remove all locked chests and doors up Lothering, or make sure there are keys available for all locked items until Ostagar is completed.

[SirErik]

Bluesmith wrote...

A better solution might be to give warriors the innate ability to bash locks, with success based on the warrior's STR stat. You can only attempt to bash once, and very difficult locks are not bashable.
Or give Dog have a "tear lock" ability similar to this, perhaps with a success rate more comparable to lockpicking, so that one doesn't feel quite so gimped by bringing him along.

I agree that Warrior should be able to bash the locks and not pick the locks. Maybe not the lock itself but ie a door or a chest. Warrior should be able to bash through the door by destroying it (based on STR and door material : wood, reinforced wood and metal).

Same with chests. But bashing a chest would result in breaking fragile objects like potions. Only hard item as weapons and armor would remain intact. Destroying a wooden chest would result in a 50% chance of destroying fragile items. Destroying a reinforced wooden chest would result in a 75% chance of destroying fragile item and a 25% chance of destroying small items like rings, amulets, dagger, leather armor, clothing. Destroying a metal chest would result in a 100% chance of destroying fragile items, 50% chance of destroying small items and a 25% chance of destroying bigger items like swords (1h or 2h) and armors.

Modifié par Commando666, 04 décembre 2009 - 06:18 .

[Bill 1977]

I agree 100%. After killing off Zevran and Leliana, I'm pretty much screwed, lol.

[Valmy]

I think it is a terrible idea. Rogues have enough to do with their skills already, so unless they want to balance it with giving rogues more skill points and the make the skill rogue only this would be a nerf IMO.

[Tinmachine]

Lockpicking as an ability that only rogues take to gimp themselves further bothers me. I think the ability as it is in DAO adds very little to gameplay.

Either go the way of Fallout (any character build can learn it, AND it gives you at least one special area and loads of interesting options to bypass story/quest lines, not just "open a silly chest"), or do it like Mass Effect had it: it is actually connected with a combat ability. That's for the best. Could be that lockpicking, traps and poison/bombmaking would be merged into one talent. Lockpicking as a talent merely to open irrelevant boxes is just dull.

edit: grammar

Modifié par Tinmachine, 04 décembre 2009 - 01:56 .

[BramAlam12345]

I like it the way it is. Yeah, to open chests you need to be a rogue yourself or take Zevran or Leliana. That's a lot of choices. I WANT differences among the characters. Otherwise I would simply build my party based on personality.

[Pellegrin]

Gliese wrote...

Pellegrin wrote...

I think what I would prefer is to leave lockpicking as a talent but enhance the contents of locked chests significantly the first time you are in the area. Once you leave an area the chest contents degrade. So bringing a rogue along to pick locks leaves you less battle ready but if you want the good stuff you can't just come back later picking all the locks.

The only problem with that is that if you're not playing a rogue you're going to miss out on a lot of good stuff in your origin (at least some), Ostagar and the Korcari Wilds. As it is I hate to give up the xp of all those locations, would be much worse if I actually missed out on good loot as well.

Other than some poultices I don't remember any worthwhile loot in these beginning stages. It did help me to purchase the extra backpack slot in Ostagar I guess but that's it. The XP is nice but it can't be more than 200-300. I could see giving warriors/mages a 150-200 XP boost after Ostagar falls but in the grand scheme it's not so big a deal.

BramAlam12345 wrote...

I like it the way it is. Yeah, to open chests you need to be a rogue yourself or take Zevran or Leliana. That's a lot of choices. I WANT differences among the characters. Otherwise I would simply build my party based on personality.

Meh...that's what I did my first playthrough. Alistair, Morrigan, and Shale ftw.

Modifié par Pellegrin, 04 décembre 2009 - 03:53 .

[Sable Phoenix]

metatrans wrote...

i completely agree. lockpicking doesn't feel at all like a talent. all the other talents are combat related. lockpicking is not.

similarly the combat mastery and combat tactics skills feel out of place. they're combat related and thus different than other skills.

in my opinion lockpicking should be made a skill available to all characters. rogues should automatically start with level 1 lockpicking though. (and level 1 stealing as well).

combat mastery and combat tactics should be removed from the game in my opinion. they wouldn't be appropriate as talents either. basically you should just gain the benefit of them automatically as you level up. level 1 gives you automatic level 1 combat mastery. level 4 automatic level 2 combat mastery. level 8 gives automatic level 3 combat mastery. level 12 gives automatic level 4 combat mastery.

combat tactics should also just be rolled into the levelling process. you should just gain 1 talent slot every 2 levels. period. start the game with 2 spots, 3rd spot at 4, 4th at 6, etc. a level 20 character in the endgame could hvae like 10 or 11 tactic slots. would be very nice and let you set some cool tactics that could include some low level scripting stuff.

Oh yes, this, a hundred thousand times over.

This would help solve the problem of painful skill point shortage that everyone suffers as well.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 04 décembre 2009 - 05:16 .

[Sable Phoenix]

Bluesmith wrote...

A better solution might be to give warriors the innate ability to bash locks, with success based on the warrior's STR stat. You can only attempt to bash once, and very difficult locks are not bashable.
Or give Dog have a "tear lock" ability similar to this, perhaps with a success rate more comparable to lockpicking, so that one doesn't feel quite so gimped by bringing him along.

This as well.  And a spell that picks locks and disables trap mechanisms.

It always confused me why none of this was available.  I'm a warrior that can cleave a dragon's skull.  I'm a mage who can incinerate entire platoons with a gesture.  And a little wooden chest with a padlock is supposed to stop me?

Please.

[Javanaut]

If you feel that strongly about it, you can just use console commands to give whatever character you are playing the lock picking ability. Problem solved. Well, on the PC version anyway. On Xbox, PS3 you're screwed.

Not to derail the topic, but the game does a horrible job of auto-leveling Zevran when you first acquire him. He's obviously meant to be a cunning rogue as he already has Lethality when you get him, but his cunning score is crap. Thank goodness for the respec mod.

And like everyone has already stated, there's nothing in those chests you can't live without. The only locked items you may need is there are one or two with love letters in them for the quest, but not having them isn't going to break your game.

Also, there are only a handful of areas that you can't go back into. Most areas you can came back with a rogue if you just HAVE to open those chests. I just use the console commands IF I don't have a rogue with me. If I have a rogue with me, then I use the rogue. I don't think of it as cheating since I could just come back with a rogue later. I'm just saving myself some time.

Modifié par Javanaut, 04 décembre 2009 - 05:41 .

[VidiVici]

I is very wrong to have lockpicking as a talent and pickpocket as a skill.
It just seems absurd to have a warrior or mage picking the pockets of NPCs unable lone box int the middle of a forest.

IMO lock-picking and pickpocketing should simply be switched.

Only rogues will then be able to steal things form NPCs and, because you still need at least 30 cunning with lvl 4 lock-picking to open the hardest boxes, rogues will keep their advantage as the relative investment is smaller. (Rogues have other benefits from a higher cunning)

Modifié par VidiVici, 23 janvier 2010 - 12:34 .

[SusanStoHelit]

Lock picking and picking pockets should both be skills, and picking pockets should be rogue specific at least.



Oh, and leaving locked doors and chests in my wake is just - wrong. The loot from chests pays for almost all of my equipment and gear throughout the game, drops and quests give me considerably less. But even if it didn't do so, locked chests are just - wrong. ;-)

[Kaoschizm]

I vote it should have been a skill, but with both high cunning and high dex requirements so that characters other than rogue would really have to sacrifice to get it.

Modifié par Kaoschizm, 23 janvier 2010 - 02:26 .