Elyiia wrote...
The Catalyst's logic is flawed. He wants to impose order upon chaos but the universe is naturally chaotic. The only way to impose order would be to destroy everything.
Guest_vivaladricas_*
Shallyah wrote...
If the created will always rebel against the creator, why haven't the Reapers found a way to eat the stupid Catalyst in the millions years they've been Reaping?
It would've saved us some ending annoyance...
Actually you can go even further. The universe is naturally orderly. What we percieve as chaos may just be a very complex order that we just cannot grasp, because of our mental limitations or whatever. Meaning that if the Reapers think that the organics are chaos, then they never really understood organic life or at least never managed to study it to a point they learned predict it.Elyiia wrote...
@The Angry One, don't forget he doesn't just run like an Ethiopian Olympic sprinter, he also makes a jump that would put an Olympic long jumper to shame.
The Catalyst's logic is flawed. He wants to impose order upon chaos but the universe is naturally chaotic. The only way to impose order would be to destroy everything.
The Angry One wrote...
Elyiia wrote...
The Catalyst's logic is flawed. He wants to impose order upon chaos but the universe is naturally chaotic. The only way to impose order would be to destroy everything.
You know what the dumbest thing is? According to the Rannoch arc, Reaper AI simulates the structure of organic minds.
Which means they think like organics. Which means if organics are inherently chaotic, then so are Reapers.
Oh and they spread this code to other synthetics like the Geth.
Let see now..In ME2 we had trurian fight a rebelion with in themselves.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Also, It not som organics...ME2 made it clear that there constant conflict and degade of environment. And we all most had the technologic synergy everyone say we never were close too...Project overlord....
So yes, we are very self destructive.
Again, irrelevant. This does not threaten the overall order of the galaxy.
Again, the Protheans brought order. The Asari and the Council brought order.
The Reapers brought chaos.
The Reapers are the problem.
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
The Angry One wrote...
Anyone get tired of these people making threads then vanishing when their flimsy assertions are challenged?
Your forgetting these are timeless machines who can easilly exsist from eon to eon watching organics rise and fall.AlexXIV wrote...
Actually you can go even further. The universe is naturally orderly. What we percieve as chaos may just be a very complex order that we just cannot grasp, because of our mental limitations or whatever. Meaning that if the Reapers think that the organics are chaos, then they never really understood organic life or at least never managed to study it to a point they learned predict it.Elyiia wrote...
@The Angry One, don't forget he doesn't just run like an Ethiopian Olympic sprinter, he also makes a jump that would put an Olympic long jumper to shame.
The Catalyst's logic is flawed. He wants to impose order upon chaos but the universe is naturally chaotic. The only way to impose order would be to destroy everything.
AlexXIV wrote...
Actually you can go even further. The universe is naturally orderly. What we percieve as chaos may just be a very complex order that we just cannot grasp, because of our mental limitations or whatever. Meaning that if the Reapers think that the organics are chaos, then they never really understood organic life or at least never managed to study it to a point they learned predict it.Elyiia wrote...
@The Angry One, don't forget he doesn't just run like an Ethiopian Olympic sprinter, he also makes a jump that would put an Olympic long jumper to shame.
The Catalyst's logic is flawed. He wants to impose order upon chaos but the universe is naturally chaotic. The only way to impose order would be to destroy everything.
dreman9999 wrote...
But thats the main agrument made by the joke....AlexXIV wrote...
And why is it imporant who made them and how do you know they didn't? Does anyone ever claim or say that Reapers are made by anyone else but the race of the starchild?dreman9999 wrote...
But the point is that it being a salution doesn't mean he made it.AlexXIV wrote...
And who is to blame for you using insecticide? Not you? It doesn't matter who made the weapon that you use to murder someone either. This is just about semantincs and doesn't add anything to the discussion.dreman9999 wrote...
That doesn't say he made them. I can have a bug problem in my yard. I can go out a buy insectiside and call it my salution to the bug pest problem. I clearly did not make the insectiside.Orthodox Infidel wrote...
tjmax wrote...
AtlasMickey wrote...
That Catalyst made the Reapers as a solution to chaos. THAT'S IT. Not out of altruism. Not out of a protective instinct. These things are mentioned, yes, but they are secondary to the purely selfish reason that he prefers order to chaos. Any time the altruism card is played or a Reaper says, "we are your salvation" Shepard rightly calls bull****. Yes, it's in the narrative. When you post "yo dawg" you are adding nothing. Nothing! Shepard already calls foul. Many many times.
Catalyst did not make the reapers. He controls them.
"They are my solution" implies he came up with the idea of having them rape everything every 50k years. Whether he hand crafted them himself in his space magic workshop is irrelevant.
"Yo , dawg..I heard you don't want to be killed by synthetics ...So I made synthetics to kill you every 50000 years so you won'tbe killed by synthetics."
My comment is aimed at that.
Elyiia wrote...
It would have made so much more sense for the Reapers to be explained like this:
We need organics to create ourselves. We need sufficiently advanced organics or else we don't advance at all. The 50,000 number isn't arbitrary, it's a number than allows an organic species from the start of the cycle to advance far enough to be process-worthy but not so far advanced that they can fight back. The reason this cycle can fight back is because the Protheans messed them up in their death throws.
Honestly, we were forced to ignore or accept alot of stupidity during all of ME. And the devs got feedback to most of it. Not sure if they ever cared or thought they make 'only a video game' so it wouldn't be imporant anyway. However, now we are at the point that many fans have had enough stupidity and don't just accept it anymore. That may very well be a reason why Bioware got caught offguard with the fan reaction. They probably thought we don't care or don't notice and that they could serve us everything and we would swallow everything at the end of the day. The worst thing about it, they may be right about that.SoraStrife wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Elyiia wrote...
The Catalyst's logic is flawed. He wants to impose order upon chaos but the universe is naturally chaotic. The only way to impose order would be to destroy everything.
You know what the dumbest thing is? According to the Rannoch arc, Reaper AI simulates the structure of organic minds.
Which means they think like organics. Which means if organics are inherently chaotic, then so are Reapers.
Oh and they spread this code to other synthetics like the Geth.
What's sad is people wouldnt even be thinking of this if the ending hadn't forced everyone in to hyper analysis mode just to make even the slightest bit of sense out of it.
This hurts them.
tjmax wrote...
Orthodox Infidel wrote...
tjmax wrote...
AtlasMickey wrote...
That Catalyst made the Reapers as a solution to chaos. THAT'S IT. Not out of altruism. Not out of a protective instinct. These things are mentioned, yes, but they are secondary to the purely selfish reason that he prefers order to chaos. Any time the altruism card is played or a Reaper says, "we are your salvation" Shepard rightly calls bull****. Yes, it's in the narrative. When you post "yo dawg" you are adding nothing. Nothing! Shepard already calls foul. Many many times.
Catalyst did not make the reapers. He controls them.
"They are my solution" implies he came up with the idea of having them rape everything every 50k years. Whether he hand crafted them himself in his space magic workshop is irrelevant.
Ok i am tired of explaining this over and over lol so i will make a whole post about the star kid of my own ;P
The universe is not chaotic....It goes through a cycle of cration to distruction back to creation. It's order and chaos.Baronesa wrote...
Why is chaos worse than order?
The Universe IS chaotic... We only see order in things because we consciously self impose it...
dreman9999 wrote...
Let see now..In ME2 we had trurian fight a rebelion with in themselves.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Also, It not som organics...ME2 made it clear that there constant conflict and degade of environment. And we all most had the technologic synergy everyone say we never were close too...Project overlord....
So yes, we are very self destructive.
Again, irrelevant. This does not threaten the overall order of the galaxy.
Again, the Protheans brought order. The Asari and the Council brought order.
The Reapers brought chaos.
The Reapers are the problem.
We had corperations and krogan figh over an mining planet.
Then we had project overlord that nearly cause the massive synthetic uprising...
The protheans was in a massive war with the synthetic of there time....They used rachni as weapns and when they lost control of them, they had to burn 13 world to kill them off...
...Nice order they are keeping.
Well yes, but it is an order the Reapers impose by leading organic life with their technology. But basically you are right, if life was pure chaos, then the solution was bound to fail anyway. Because chaos would imply that they can't be prepared for all possible events.SoraStrife wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
Actually you can go even further. The universe is naturally orderly. What we percieve as chaos may just be a very complex order that we just cannot grasp, because of our mental limitations or whatever. Meaning that if the Reapers think that the organics are chaos, then they never really understood organic life or at least never managed to study it to a point they learned predict it.Elyiia wrote...
@The Angry One, don't forget he doesn't just run like an Ethiopian Olympic sprinter, he also makes a jump that would put an Olympic long jumper to shame.
The Catalyst's logic is flawed. He wants to impose order upon chaos but the universe is naturally chaotic. The only way to impose order would be to destroy everything.
But that still doesnt make sense, because if organics are chaos, then they wouldnt be able to fall in to a cycle or be predictable to a level where a cycle is always predictable. By creating the cycle and expecting organics to always fall in to it, the starchild implies that organics can be predicted, and therefore are in order.
The star childs logic is that if organics are left unchecked, they will cause the distuction of themselves.Erield wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
But thats the main agrument made by the joke....AlexXIV wrote...
And why is it imporant who made them and how do you know they didn't? Does anyone ever claim or say that Reapers are made by anyone else but the race of the starchild?dreman9999 wrote...
But the point is that it being a salution doesn't mean he made it.AlexXIV wrote...
And who is to blame for you using insecticide? Not you? It doesn't matter who made the weapon that you use to murder someone either. This is just about semantincs and doesn't add anything to the discussion.dreman9999 wrote...
That doesn't say he made them. I can have a bug problem in my yard. I can go out a buy insectiside and call it my salution to the bug pest problem. I clearly did not make the insectiside.Orthodox Infidel wrote...
tjmax wrote...
AtlasMickey wrote...
That Catalyst made the Reapers as a solution to chaos. THAT'S IT. Not out of altruism. Not out of a protective instinct. These things are mentioned, yes, but they are secondary to the purely selfish reason that he prefers order to chaos. Any time the altruism card is played or a Reaper says, "we are your salvation" Shepard rightly calls bull****. Yes, it's in the narrative. When you post "yo dawg" you are adding nothing. Nothing! Shepard already calls foul. Many many times.
Catalyst did not make the reapers. He controls them.
"They are my solution" implies he came up with the idea of having them rape everything every 50k years. Whether he hand crafted them himself in his space magic workshop is irrelevant.
"Yo , dawg..I heard you don't want to be killed by synthetics ...So I made synthetics to kill you every 50000 years so you won'tbe killed by synthetics."
My comment is aimed at that.
Your assertion is that the Reapers were not made by the Starchild, and that is the reason why the Reapers have not turned on him. Fine. You win. You still miss the point of the meme (even though the meme misses the point of what the Star Child is doing.)
The Star Child's logic is that if a civilization is left unchecked, it will create a synthetic lifeform that will reach a point where it becomes infinitely intelligent and infinitely powerful, and then destroy all organic life in the galaxy. To prevent this from happening, the Star Child uses synthetic lifeforms to wipe out only select organic civilizations.
The very fact that millions of years have passed without the Reapers destroying more than they should is evidence that the Star Child's assertion is flawed at best. Even if the meme is technically wrong, it is essentially correct.
dreman9999 wrote...
The universe is not chaotic....It goes through a cycle of cration to distruction back to creation. It's order and chaos.Baronesa wrote...
Why is chaos worse than order?
The Universe IS chaotic... We only see order in things because we consciously self impose it...
Too bad Reapers are probably made by organics as well and destroy us too. That's the point of the yo dawg thing.dreman9999 wrote...
We will make things that will destory us and cause it to destroy us...
I am no physican but I honestly think chaos is just something we don't understand yet. If you see something that seems to have no rules because you cannot recognize any rules it can be interpreted that there are no rules ... or ... that we simply know the rules.SoraStrife wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
The universe is not chaotic....It goes through a cycle of cration to distruction back to creation. It's order and chaos.Baronesa wrote...
Why is chaos worse than order?
The Universe IS chaotic... We only see order in things because we consciously self impose it...
Physics fail. The laws governing mass state specifically that its natural movements will always be chaotic. The universe gravitates towards chaos.
Modifié par AlexXIV, 30 mars 2012 - 12:24 .
And that is the problem withthe reapers salution.....It's trying to be perfect but only with orgaince at advance levels. The thing they seem to fear with organics is that our nature with conflict and self distruction will destroy us and hamper younger racse as well. That almost happened with Project overlord.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Let see now..In ME2 we had trurian fight a rebelion with in themselves.The Angry One wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Also, It not som organics...ME2 made it clear that there constant conflict and degade of environment. And we all most had the technologic synergy everyone say we never were close too...Project overlord....
So yes, we are very self destructive.
Again, irrelevant. This does not threaten the overall order of the galaxy.
Again, the Protheans brought order. The Asari and the Council brought order.
The Reapers brought chaos.
The Reapers are the problem.
We had corperations and krogan figh over an mining planet.
Then we had project overlord that nearly cause the massive synthetic uprising...
The protheans was in a massive war with the synthetic of there time....They used rachni as weapns and when they lost control of them, they had to burn 13 world to kill them off...
...Nice order they are keeping.
So what? Overall order was maintained. You're speaking of absolute perfect order and I hate to break it to you but you're only going to achieve that by killing off EVERYTHING. Forever. Including the Reapers.
In retrospect that's probably what you're doing in the destroy ending. No wonder spacebrat lets you do it.
They're not say was are total chaos...Just that our chaotic nature is self destructive.SoraStrife wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
Actually you can go even further. The universe is naturally orderly. What we percieve as chaos may just be a very complex order that we just cannot grasp, because of our mental limitations or whatever. Meaning that if the Reapers think that the organics are chaos, then they never really understood organic life or at least never managed to study it to a point they learned predict it.Elyiia wrote...
@The Angry One, don't forget he doesn't just run like an Ethiopian Olympic sprinter, he also makes a jump that would put an Olympic long jumper to shame.
The Catalyst's logic is flawed. He wants to impose order upon chaos but the universe is naturally chaotic. The only way to impose order would be to destroy everything.
But that still doesnt make sense, because if organics are chaos, then they wouldnt be able to fall in to a cycle or be predictable to a level where a cycle is always predictable. By creating the cycle and expecting organics to always fall in to it, the starchild implies that organics can be predicted, and therefore are in order.
Modifié par dreman9999, 30 mars 2012 - 12:27 .
dreman9999 wrote...
The star childs logic is that if organics are left unchecked, they will cause the distuction of themselves.
This isthe reapers logic....http://www.youtube.c...fl5xqHiM#t=370s
We will make things that will destory us and cause it to destroy us...
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