402 réponses à ce sujet

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

FedericoV wrote...

Rushing the game and removing any kind of tangible connection with classical RPGs in the name of "innovation".

CrustyBot wrote...

Johnny Jaded wrote...

Have David Silverman make it.

Now that's a scary thought.

Scratch that, I'd wanna see a game made by him.

You're so cruel: I won't sleep tonight. I will be haunted by buttons and awesomes.

Btw, is it not what's happening allready ? Just joking but I would like to know what kind of relation exist between the marketing guys and the creative guys in reality during the creation of a game like DA3. Who decides what? What kind of feedback and controll does marketing have on the project?

I mean, I remember that one of the reason for the removal of the Origins feature was linked to marketing (it's easier to sell a game with a clear protagonist).

Now your dreams can haunt you while you're awake too. You can thank me later.



As for the removal of Origin Stories, considering Dragon Age 2's story and considering it's short development time, it's not surprising they were removed.

I think marketing probably has some influence over the game's development, but I can't imagine them "forcing" anything over the creative team that the creative don't either: already support or are ambivalent about. For example, the lego chunking of enemies in combat definitely seemed to me a marketing driven design decision. Origin Stories just seemed to be a natural cut considering the development time frame they were given.

Of course, none of us are privy to the development process, so all I'm doing is giving LOTS OF SPECULATION.

In either case, I wish we had Origins back. From my perspective, it was easily the most innovative or unique aspect of the franchise and I wished that the concept was expanded to become more relevant in the story, not removed altogether.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 30 mars 2012 - 01:19 .

[Pasquale1234]

FedericoV wrote...

Rushing the game and removing any kind of tangible connection with classical RPGs in the name of "innovation".

This.

Plus - too much watching the story unfold, not enough gameplay and player agency to shape the story, not enough latitude to actually role-play.

[Vincent Laww]

Bioware ignoring concerned fans regarding game mechanics that are counterinuitive to releasing a acceptable product. Addionally, replicating past trangressions that have caused detriment to the Dragon Age name. Misleading trailers that instill a tale of epics proportions. Only to discover the reality of this situation is far more mundane than what was originally purported.

Modifié par Vincent Laww, 30 mars 2012 - 02:00 .

[Cultist]

The worst thing BioWare could do with Dragon Age III is Dragon Age 2.

[FedericoV]

CrustyBot wrote...



Now your dreams can haunt you while you're awake too. You can thank me later.

nooooooooooooooo.com/

Brain damage! Head X-plosion in 3...2...1...

As for the removal of Origin Stories, considering Dragon Age 2's story and considering it's short development time, it's not surprising they were removed.

I think marketing probably has some influence over the game's development, but I can't imagine them "forcing" anything over the creative team that the creative don't either: already support or are ambivalent about. For example, the lego chunking of enemies in combat definitely seemed to me a marketing driven design decision. Origin Stories just seemed to be a natural cut considering the development time frame they were given.

I mostly agree with you but I would like to have a description of the big picture directly from them. I mean, one of the most common accusation that players make against developers is to be driven ONLY by marketing plans, focus groups and corporate stuff. It is reaching a point very near to paranoia and it would be usefull to discard wrong assumption.

Morever, they allways ask us for constructive criticism: how can we make constructive criticism if we do not know hot the process works? It's pointless to ask for lasagne if the cook is chinese and has allready fried the whole meal. I know, the example is not smart but I'm still suffering from the effect of post-thraumatic silverman's syndrome.

Of course, none of us are privy to the development process, so all I'm doing is giving LOTS OF SPECULATION.

In either case, I wish we had Origins back. From my perspective, it was easily the most innovative or unique aspect of the franchise and I wished that the concept was expanded to become more relevant in the story, not removed altogether.

I've posted countless times that there are fixes to the lack Origins. At least you can have multiple human origins. Or better, you can have multiple protagonist that are the members of the party. But if they put origins back, the experience should somewhat change according to them, unlike DA:O.

Modifié par FedericoV, 30 mars 2012 - 02:27 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Make the game without having any idea of where the storyline is going.

[Maria Caliban]

Xewaka wrote...

There are already guns in the setting. Well, cannons. The Qunari have them.
And I'd love to see them in the setting.

I don't see guns in the setting to be the same as cannons mentioned in the codex.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Make the game without having any idea of where the storyline is going.

Again see Dragon Age II.

Basically the worse thing Bioware could do is make another Dragon Age II.

[the_one_54321]

Mike Laidlaw said...
I think, as a team, we're quite happy with what we've done with Dragon Age II, and this is establishing a solid foundation that keeps a lot, in fact almost everything I want to keep about Origins

Saying this is probably also one of the worst things they could do with DAIII. (emphasis, mine)

Nice to know that, as far as I am concerned, they don't really expect to improve on DAII at all.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 30 mars 2012 - 05:42 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

The worst thing BW can do is take the gameplay elements from ME3. I am not really waiting for characters to click on that burp up lines without interaction or that don't have meaningful choices.

[Maria Caliban]

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Mike Laidlaw said...
I think, as a team, we're quite happy with what we've done with Dragon Age II, and this is establishing a solid foundation that keeps a lot, in fact almost everything I want to keep about Origins

Saying this is probably also one of the worst things they could do with DAIII. (emphasis, mine)

Nice to know that, as far as I am concerned, they don't really expect to improve on DAII at all.

Well that's pretty telling right there just what Mike thought of Origins.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

I oppose interrupts.
 
Well, In Exile and I worked out an Interrupt design we would both accept, but it didn't really resemble ME-style interrupts.  They allowed the player to pause the scene in order to examine the potential interrupt more closely, and then choose the interrupt or not.  

I will not accept an interrupt that requires the player make a quick decision based on incomplete information.

[Sylvius the Mad]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Mike Laidlaw said...

I think, as a team, we're quite happy with what we've done with Dragon Age II, and this is establishing a solid foundation that keeps a lot, in fact almost everything I want to keep about Origins

Saying this is probably also one of the worst things they could do with DAIII. (emphasis, mine)

Nice to know that, as far as I am concerned, they don't really expect to improve on DAII at all.

Well that's pretty telling right there just what Mike thought of Origins.

Keep in mind, Mike said this right after DA2's release, when everything BioWare said about the game was hugely positive.

It's a predictable pattern.  When they release a game, they talk constantly about hiw great it is.  Then, as they approach the release of the subsequent game, they expound on all of the problems with the earlier game.

When Mike said that, they were in the "DA2 is perfect" phase.  Now they're willing to admit the game had some issues.  I expect they'll talk about those issues in more detail as DA3 approaches, and which issues they talk about will be the one's they've changed for DA3.  The issues they don't mention likely will not have been fixed.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

[n2nw]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

Me too!!  ME TOO!!!!!!! *bounces up and down*

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

I oppose interrupts.
 

You are SUCH a party pooper.  A predictable party pooper.  Someone should paragon interrupt kiss you.  Party pooper.

[AkiKishi]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I will not accept an interrupt that requires the player make a quick decision based on incomplete information.

Thats kind of the point. It's a situation that requires a reflex response it's not something you can mull over. Since it reflects a real life analog I don't see how you can be opposed to it.

[Seagloom]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

Only if there are renegade interrupt stabbings.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 mars 2012 - 06:39 .

[the_one_54321]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I will not accept an interrupt that requires the player make a quick decision based on incomplete information.

Thats kind of the point. It's a situation that requires a reflex response it's not something you can mull over. Since it reflects a real life analog I don't see how you can be opposed to it.

Because you don't know what the character is gong to actually do when you select it.

[The Elder King]

I said earlier mandatory MP, but I remembered a thing that could be worse (though thankfully it seems it'll not happen): copying ME3 autodialogue system.

[Maria Caliban]

Seagloom wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

Only if there are renegade interupt stabbings.

Dragon Age without the murder knife is Dragon Age in name only.

the_one_54321 wrote...

Because you don't know what the character is gong to actually do when you select it.

That can be solved by putting a small note by the icon. [kiss her], [punch her], [shoot them], [defend self].

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 30 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[Seagloom]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dragon Age without the murder knife is Dragon Age in name only.

Yep!

[CarlSpackler]

Yeah the interupts are a bit problematic. I don't mind them as much in ME as I usually have a general idea of what Shep is going to do and Shep isn't totally my character anyways. I certainly direct some of his personality and choices but its never really felt like me making those choices.

I tend to agree with Sylvius here though that I dislike like having to make a split-second decision about something of which I am ultimatly unaware of the consequences regardless of how obvious it may appear to be.

I definitly think they're an interesting idea and was pleasantly surprised in ME when the reaction was what I was anticipating it to be, it really did feel like my decision in that moment, however that also made it all the worse when Shep did something I didn't expect at all. That remains true of the dialogue wheel and paraphrase system as a whole though. If there were a way to refine the interupts in some way that would be nice. And in other obvious hopes with no suggestion on how to achieve them, it would be nice if Bioware could make the ultimate RPG that satisfied everyone's greatest gaming hopes in a matter of weeks with the thought and polish that typically go with a five year dev cycle.

Modifié par CarlSpackler, 30 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[the_one_54321]

Maria Caliban wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Because you don't know what the character is gong to actually do when you select it.

That can be solved by putting a small note by the icon. [kiss her], [punch her], [shoot them], [defend self].

Yes, please.

[n2nw]

Seagloom wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

Only if there are renegade interrupt stabbings.

Combining the two could be interesting.