402 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I will not accept an interrupt that requires the player make a quick decision based on incomplete information.

Thats kind of the point. It's a situation that requires a reflex response it's not something you can mull over. Since it reflects a real life analog I don't see how you can be opposed to it.

Because you don't know what the character is gong to actually do when you select it.

Really ? I've always had a fair idea. Moreso perhaps than with paraphrase system,which borders on random.

Krogan standing on fuel tank + renegade interupt..

[Maria Caliban]

The lack of female dwarves in DA II did not go unnoticed. I'm not interested in playing one, but I hope they make a return.

[Mike3207]

A straight port of DA2-and don't override previous choices like they did with Anders and Leliana.

[tmp7704]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

What about angry against the wall renegade interrupt kisses.

[n2nw]

tmp7704 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

What about angry against the wall renegade interrupt kisses.

Yes, please.

[the_one_54321]

BobSmith101 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I will not accept an interrupt that requires the player make a quick decision based on incomplete information.

Thats kind of the point. It's a situation that requires a reflex response it's not something you can mull over. Since it reflects a real life analog I don't see how you can be opposed to it.

Because you don't know what the character is gong to actually do when you select it.

Really ? I've always had a fair idea. Moreso perhaps than with paraphrase system,which borders on random.

Krogan standing on fuel tank + renegade interupt..

You were wondering how Sylvius could be in opposition to it. That's why. Knowing what the character will do.

[Maria Caliban]

tmp7704 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

What about angry against the wall renegade interrupt kisses.

I'd rather be on the receiving end of those.

[AtreiyaN7]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

This idea I like.

[jackofalltrades456]

Two things for me.

1:The return of para-trooper enemies that spawned in endless waves for nearly every single bloody fight in D2.

2: Disregarding the players choices from the last two games. I really hope Bioware doesn't pull a Blizzard and starts randomly reviving dead characters the players killed off  in future games. (Spoiler) I don't want to see Alistair as King even if I killed him and gave the crown to Anora.

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 30 mars 2012 - 07:43 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Thats kind of the point. It's a situation that requires a reflex response it's not something you can mull over.

The character can't mull it over.  The character is under time pressure.

Forcing the player to work under that same pressure risks forcing roleplaying errors.  Or physical mistakes.  If I want my character to use the interrupts, but I don't successfulyl cklick the icon in time, by character doesn't do the in-character thing that the iterrupt offered.  Why not?  What in-game reason is there to explain why that didn't happen?

There isn't one.  Real-time interrupts are twitch gameplay.  Twitch gameplay breaks roleplaying.

BobSmith101 wrote...

Really ? I've always had a fair idea.

You were guessing.  That you guessed right doesn't change that you were guessing.

The only good decisions are informed decisions.  The player needs certainty.

Furthermore, the interrupts in ME2 relied on the player being aware of the narrative.  In your Krogan example, you (the player) know that the fuel tank is relevant to the interrupt because the designers wouldn't have the interrupt right then otherwise.  But your character isn't aware of the authored narrative.  So the ME2 interrupts only worked if the player broke character to interpret them.

Asking the player ever to break character is unacceptable.

[Adanu]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Make the game without having any idea of where the storyline is going.

Again see Dragon Age II.

Basically the worse thing Bioware could do is make another Dragon Age II.

Dragon Age 2 was fine, it just needed more time for making things less recycled.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I support paragon interrupt kisses.

I oppose interrupts.
 
Well,
In Exile and I worked out an Interrupt design we would both accept, but
it didn't really resemble ME-style interrupts.  They allowed the player
to pause the scene in order to examine the potential interrupt more
closely, and then choose the interrupt or not.  

I will not accept an interrupt that requires the player make a quick decision based on incomplete information.

You don't accept anything Bioware puts out anyway these days, so you might as well say you oppose modern RPGs.

[Izsera]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

You were guessing.  That you guessed right doesn't change that you were guessing.

The only good decisions are informed decisions.  The player needs certainty.

Furthermore, the interrupts in ME2 relied on the player being aware of the narrative.  In your Krogan example, you (the player) know that the fuel tank is relevant to the interrupt because the designers wouldn't have the interrupt right then otherwise.  But your character isn't aware of the authored narrative.  So the ME2 interrupts only worked if the player broke character to interpret them.

Asking the player ever to break character is unacceptable.

I very rarely write anything in these forums, and I intend to go back to that after this brief post, but I felt like I had to say something here. I agree with your twitch related comments honestly, even though I like interrupts and find them to be a minor compromise at worst.

However, this part where you say "you as the player know that the fuel tank is relevant but your character doesn't know that" is the single funniest thing I have read this last week probably. I don't know what kind of characters you like to roleplay as of course, but if you think that Shepard making the reasoning "Hmm..that's a fuel tank that Krogan is over, if I shoot it he'll burn to a crisp" is somehow out of character for him, then..well I don't know really. The "authored narrative" that my character isn't aware of is something behind the scenes for myself, the player, and actual freaking life for my character, so when that interrupt comes I think what a person is supposed to assume is "Aha, Shepard saw that fuel tank and thought of that himself". Unless of course your Shepard can't figure out that shooting a fuel tank causes explosions and a burned Krogan, in which case I guess I can agree that yeah, you somehow made Shepard have an out of character epiphany. And in that scenario basically the entire premise of a roleplaying computer game is thrown out of the window, in the first ever dialogue I can just say "What the hell?! I had assumed my character didn't know how to speak or walk and crawled around naked everywhere! This is completely out of character for what I had assumed was the situation. I refuse this experience!"

Modifié par Izsera, 30 mars 2012 - 10:43 .

[Rurik948]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Make the game without having any idea of where the storyline is going.

Again see Dragon Age II.

Basically the worse thing Bioware could do is make another Dragon Age II.

This seems to be far not the worse now.

[kingtigernz]

Harping on about Innovation and introducing a AWESOME button.

[kingtigernz]

FedericoV wrote...

CrustyBot wrote...



Now your dreams can haunt you while you're awake too. You can thank me later.

nooooooooooooooo.com/

Brain damage! Head X-plosion in 3...2...1...

As for the removal of Origin Stories, considering Dragon Age 2's story and considering it's short development time, it's not surprising they were removed.

I think marketing probably has some influence over the game's development, but I can't imagine them "forcing" anything over the creative team that the creative don't either: already support or are ambivalent about. For example, the lego chunking of enemies in combat definitely seemed to me a marketing driven design decision. Origin Stories just seemed to be a natural cut considering the development time frame they were given.

I mostly agree with you but I would like to have a description of the big picture directly from them. I mean, one of the most common accusation that players make against developers is to be driven ONLY by marketing plans, focus groups and corporate stuff. It is reaching a point very near to paranoia and it would be usefull to discard wrong assumption.

Morever, they allways ask us for constructive criticism: how can we make constructive criticism if we do not know hot the process works? It's pointless to ask for lasagne if the cook is chinese and has allready fried the whole meal. I know, the example is not smart but I'm still suffering from the effect of post-thraumatic silverman's syndrome.

Of course, none of us are privy to the development process, so all I'm doing is giving LOTS OF SPECULATION.

In either case, I wish we had Origins back. From my perspective, it was easily the most innovative or unique aspect of the franchise and I wished that the concept was expanded to become more relevant in the story, not removed altogether.

I've posted countless times that there are fixes to the lack Origins. At least you can have multiple human origins. Or better, you can have multiple protagonist that are the members of the party. But if they put origins back, the experience should somewhat change according to them, unlike DA:O.

Oh god that video is hilarious lol.

[Dejajeva]

Izsera, you should post more often.

[Giltspur]

Hmm, the worst thing possible.

They could make a list of conversation choices.  Only instead of simply choosing them, you have to pass a quick time test.  So on XBox to say "I want to be a dragon, ho ho!" you have to press A, X, RB, LB or something before a timer runs out. 

After all of my calculations, that is the worst thing possible.  It narrowly edged out MMO.

[Brahox]

release in 18 months..

[FedericoV]

Adanu wrote...

You don't accept anything Bioware puts out anyway these days, so you might as well say you oppose modern RPGs.

The concept of "modern" RPGs is a fraud.

At least if with the term modern RPGs you do not mean interactive movies but actual games.

Modifié par FedericoV, 31 mars 2012 - 09:32 .

[AkiKishi]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Thats kind of the point. It's a situation that requires a reflex response it's not something you can mull over.

The character can't mull it over.  The character is under time pressure.

Forcing the player to work under that same pressure risks forcing roleplaying errors.  Or physical mistakes.  If I want my character to use the interrupts, but I don't successfulyl cklick the icon in time, by character doesn't do the in-character thing that the iterrupt offered.  Why not?  What in-game reason is there to explain why that didn't happen?

There isn't one.  Real-time interrupts are twitch gameplay.  Twitch gameplay breaks roleplaying.

BobSmith101 wrote...

Really ? I've always had a fair idea.

You were guessing.  That you guessed right doesn't change that you were guessing.

The only good decisions are informed decisions.  The player needs certainty.

Furthermore, the interrupts in ME2 relied on the player being aware of the narrative.  In your Krogan example, you (the player) know that the fuel tank is relevant to the interrupt because the designers wouldn't have the interrupt right then otherwise.  But your character isn't aware of the authored narrative.  So the ME2 interrupts only worked if the player broke character to interpret them.

Asking the player ever to break character is unacceptable.

The guy is special forces. You would need the IQ of a houeplant to not know shooting a fuel tank would not result in boom.

Someone standing next to a window + renegade interupt... not really rocket science.

Some guy coughing his guts up + paragon

[Tirigon]

BobSmith101 wrote...


The guy is special forces. You would need the IQ of a houeplant to not know shooting a fuel tank would not result in boom.

Someone standing next to a window + renegade interupt... not really rocket science.

Some guy coughing his guts up + paragon

Actually, shooting a fuel tank is rather unlikely to cause an explosion, outside of Michael Bay movies anyhow.