150 réponses à ce sujet

[zarnk567]

Mandemon wrote...

Lankist wrote...

The thing is, though, most of those things would fly under the suspension of disbelief had it not been shattered by Starkid and his technicolor dreamsplosion.

Here we go.

Thanks to Star Kid we have lost our suspension of disbelief and are now seeing everything that is wrong.

^this^

Modifié par zarnk567, 30 mars 2012 - 02:43 .

[STEEEEVE]

The plot for the coup that makes the most sense in my mind was that the bit of data transferred to the Illuisive Man was what contained information on the catalyst, and that Cerberus tried to take the Citadel because he knew what it really was.

[kkndgr]

If TIM was indoctrinated during cerberus attack on the citadel why he wa doing all the experiments to control the reapers later on at the sanctuary labs?

[Gibb_Shepard]

You don't play Mass Effect for the plot. You play it for the characters. The character moments are without a doubt the best in ME3. The plot is ridiculously basic.

The ending strips the characters, and screws up the very basic plot. So you've got no chance there.

[Letator]

3. To shove Kei Leng into the story, give Thane an awesome death, and show how extreme and probably indoctrinated Cerberus is... I mean what did they expect to learn about enslaving the reapers by killing Eve, blowing up Tuchanka and abducting a handful of biotic teenagers?

5. Bizarre depictions of PTSD I guess.

6. It gave all those aliens much better reason to fight and die there than "Hey, Shepard is obsessed with his own planet and we all owe him some favors.". It made the Earth strategically significant.

Modifié par Letator, 30 mars 2012 - 05:27 .

[Grasich]

Judging by what I've heard from the devs (via Twitter mostly), they had a whole lot more explanations for this sort of thing planned, but cut it all out for one reason or another.

[ahandsomeshark]

I have a ton of complaints about the rest of the game but I think most of them would have been minimized if the ENTIRE ending level had been up to bioware's standard. But as a whole with the linear gameplay of the ending and the absurd ending in itself just further cements my disappoints with the game.

Like the lack of depth with the rest of the game didn't bother me because I assumed the ending mission was going to be like the suicide mission on a larger scale. Where the war assets I collected would directly and visually come into play and alter things (which would make 2nd and 3rd play throughs actually different) and there would be multiple decisions and repercussions. If that had happened the lack of depth in the rest of the game wouldn't have bothered me as much cause I'd known the different decisions I make would amount to more than just numbers on a chart in the war room.

Instead it really doesn't matter whether you get 4000 EMS or 7000 or how you get there. Which is awful for a bioware game.

Modifié par ahandsomeshark, 30 mars 2012 - 03:32 .

[ahandsomeshark]

Also yeah I really don't like the crucible story-line, since it's basically an off button for the reapers which I'm pretty sure was one of the things they promised they wouldn't do in pre release interviews. If nothing else they could have added some legitimate twist with it. Like we get it halfway built and Cerberus destroys it or steals it, or we get it built and too earth but then find out it's not what we expected (like it's a reaper trap) so we have to rally the troops, or maybe it's effectiveness changes based on who you recruited and assigned to working on it (like getting Kasumi, STG, Ceberus engineers have different impacts). Then it would at least make sense that you can't get some of your squad mates back (like you can get Kasumi in squad but it's going to make it harder for you to complete the crucible)

Also for some reason I was really under the impression that we were going to go through Shepard's actual trial. I understand they wanted to get the action started but I really would have preferred really getting back into being Shepard the character before being thrown into the war. With ME1 you get to talk and make real decisions in conversations before you get thrown onto Eden Prime, even in ME2 it's kind of split between dialogue (if you want to you can skip it) and action before the game really begins. On this game it just kind of felt like I was just being thrown from battle to battle.

[rvgifford]

If not for the ending being as bad as it was I would have overlooked the rest. Once the ending shattered my fairy tale-esque love for Mass Effect I began to see the blemishes in ME3. Still love it, except the ending, but it feels less . . . like Mass Effect.

[Marta Rio II]

Yep, OP, these are the things we'd be talking about if the ending hadn't been so glaringly disappointing.

I'd put most of these in the same "tier of sillyness" as the human reaper from ME2.  Yes, they are all silly at face-value, and are somewhat logic defying, and are possibly cliche/bad writing, but they don't really make you never want to play the game again. 

These are the things that make you want to create a 45 minute youtube video pointing out all the flaws of ME3 (*cough* Smudboy *cough*). 

But they are not things that make you want to send 402 cupcakes to Bioware, or donate $80,000 to charity, or grind your ME1-ME3 game discs into a fine powder, all in the hopes that someday the pain might go away...

[ahandsomeshark]

Also the dreams were just ridiculous I don't even understand what the point of them was. They kind of set it up like the number of crew mates Shepard lost was going to have a real impact on his personal story, but there's virtually no difference. My main Shepard only lost like 3 people, and he had the same reaction as my friends Shepard who'd killed like half of the characters off.

And the coup definitely could have used at least some more foreshadowing. How hard would it have been to add a few cut scenes, or a few conversations or emails from Udina on the Normandy, where his increasing frustration at the lack of progress is being shown.

[ahandsomeshark]

rvgifford wrote...

If not for the ending being as bad as it was I would have overlooked the rest. Once the ending shattered my fairy tale-esque love for Mass Effect I began to see the blemishes in ME3. Still love it, except the ending, but it feels less . . . like Mass Effect.

yep this exactly. To me it feels like a generic shooter with some mass effect characters and plot lines thrown in. No exploration, extremely limited dialogue, thrown together sidequests. It's like I don't even know you anymore bioware. I play bioware games because I love talking to NPC's as much as I love shooting them in the face.

[The Interloper]

ME3's other plot holes pale in comparison to the ending.

[Iwillbeback]

Luc0s wrote...

DERP! So I have to read the friggin' codex or else I'll miss VITAL plot points? That's not very good game-design. The codex should be OPTIONAL, but now it seems to be a VITAL part of the plot (because without it, the coup makes no sense).

I still think the coup plot is poorly written, even after reading the codex now (thanks for the tip), but at least it makes a little sense now.

You sound like an annoying whiny kid who chooses not to read stuff because you're lazy.

Modifié par Iwillbeback, 30 mars 2012 - 04:00 .

[Talogrungi]

I was totally happy with my ME3 experience right up 'til the ending.

Any problems prior to that, I was happy to overlook.

[ed87]

Yeah, and some of the dialogue was trying too hard to turn the game into a movie, which is not always a bad thing but it did destroy a lot of dialogue choice and added a few awkward moments in the script. "we fight or we die! thats the plan" -Redneck Shepard at his best!

Modifié par ed87, 30 mars 2012 - 04:10 .

[liggy002]

Luc0s wrote...

 Lets be honest folks, it was not just the ending of ME3 that was bad. The entire plot of ME3 was at the very least cheesy as hell. The build-up was bad, the Crucible is just a silly McGuffin, the way Cerberus is threated in ME3 is just plain horrible, the Citadel coup (Cerberus attacking the Citadel) was stupid and silly, the motivation behind the Reaper cycle is stupid, Shepard having those silly dreams was just cheesy as hell and the entire thing with the Citadel above planet Earth was also pretty silly. The horrible ending is just the final nail in the coffin.

Let me point out some facts on why the writing in Mass Effect 3 is just plain bad in general:


1. The Opening:
This is no way the worst part of ME3, but it certainly felt hush-hush. No proper character introduction for the newcomers and there wasn't even the promised trial/hearing. There is a huge gap between the ending of ME2 and the beginning of ME3 that isn't explained. Instead the game forces me to fill in the blanks myself, something I had to do a lot duing ME3 by the way. That's not good writing and it's not "mature" or whatsoever. No, "speculation for everyone" is not cool guys, it comes of as lazy, rushed, or uncreative (pick one).


2. The Crucible:
All of the sudden this McGuffen gets thrown in your face. So apperantly there are plans for some kind of super anti-reaper weapon buried in the prothean archives on Mars. How convenient that we just so happen to find this information right now at the beginning of the Reaper invasion! Those prothean data archives are around for how long exactly? 30 years at the very least? And we just so happen to find this Crucible data NOW while the Reapers are at our doorstep? Sorry, but this smells like an ass-pull to me.


3. The Coup:
Seriously, what's up with this coup? It didn't make sense at all. Why did Cerberus attack the Citadel? Why did Udina help Cerberus? Why was Cerberus trying to kill the Council while they tried to protect the very same Counci before? There was absolutely NOTHING about the whole coup that made sense. it didn't add anything of value to the plot, it didn't make Cerberus look cool (instead, it made Cerberus look even more like a joke than they already were). Seriously, can someone explain this silly coup to me (without adding headcanon or fan-fic to it)?


4. The Reapers' Motivation:
Do I even need to address this? I thin we all know their motivation behind the cycle is silly to say the least.


5. The Silly Dreams:
Seriously, why the hell are we all forced to watch these bad, over-the-top, silly, kiddy dreams about Shepard running after this kid like a f*cking moron in slow-motion? Some of Shepard's best crew members and best friends die, but does he have nightmares about them? Noooooo! So why in the world does Shepard keep dreaming about this stupid kid from the prologue that he hardly even knew? Sorry BioWare, but that's just dumb and cheesy. Just because I love cheese on my sandwich doesn't mean I love cheese in my Mass Effect.


6. The Citadel above planet Earth:
This was a huge WTF moment for me. What the hell is the Citadel doing above planet Earth? It seems like they're using a beacon like the Conduit to beam human corpes up to the Citadel, but for what? To build another Reaper? And why do they have to move the entire Citadel to planet earth for that? The prothean Conduit on Ilos worked just fine when the Citadel was chillin' at it's regular place. You'd think a Reaper conduit would work better than a prothean conduit, so why the f*ck bother moving the Citadel over to planet Earth?



And these are just a few obvious points from the ME3 story that are incredibly bad. I can make a much longer list, but I'm not going to bother you with that. I think these 6 points make it perfectly clear and obvious that the story and plot of ME3 is just a big joke.

I don't get it. wasn't BioWare supposed to be famous for their quality narrative and story-telling in their games? So why haven't I seen a single decent story from BioWare after ME1 and DA:O? BioWare, what's happening with you guys?

Regarding #2 The Crucible - Or a set up by the Reapers.

[moater boat]

I agree with the OP, the crappiness of the ending overshadows the lower level crappiness of the entire game.

[Zeppex]

Once the Citadel was moved to earth didn't Vendetta say that meant your species was ready to be Harvested. So one can assume the Citadel also served a massive harvesting machine that made reapers.

[jumpingkaede]

Zeppex wrote...

Once the Citadel was moved to earth didn't Vendetta say that meant your species was ready to be Harvested. So one can assume the Citadel also served a massive harvesting machine that made reapers.

I like that at no time did any of the Citadel races, including post-Sovereign when it was obvious that the Citadel was important for some reason, ever did any investigation into parts of the Citadel.

So they never found the Catalyst on the Citadel.  Or the Reaper making factory.  Or the organic harvesting plant.

Explanation:  The Keepers took care of it so nobody cared.  Nobody knows where the Keepers come from or where are they made and nobody really wants to know  (except that one Salarian that asks you to scan the Keepers).  

Really?  That wouldn't even fly here in 21st century Earth and humans are pretty much dumb as hell.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 30 mars 2012 - 04:33 .

[Siansonea]

I've often scratched my head at the overall writing, since ME2, in fact. Something happened between ME1 and ME2, and the logical consistency of the narrative seemed to be the last priority from that point on.

In ME2, we get the Lazarus Project. Is it a compelling plot point, to show how our hero copes with her own death, how she looks at life differently, how she questions her own sense of self and seeks to find answers about the nature of the new creation she has become? NOPE! It's just to provide a time jump (hey newcomers, have some exposition!) and to reset the skill trees and combat mechanics. THAT'S IT. Ugh...

And then she IMMEDIATELY starts working for the Illusive Man. Now, that's not so bad, is it? Cool-looking badass dude with freaky eyes, smokes and drinks, cool, right? WRONG. Cerberus in ME1 was a terrorist organization responsible for all sorts of atrocities that Shepard had direct knowledge of. Not the least of those crimes was the execution of Alliance Admiral Kahoku, who had gotten too close and uncovered the Illusive Man's dirty laundry. Cerberus was also responsible for the thresher maw ambush on Akuze, and they tortured Corporal Toombs by injecting him with thresher maw acid. And Shepard knew about all that! And she walked into Cerberus-created thresher maw ambush HERSELF on Edolus! And she personally shut down a bunch of Cerberus facilities where they were experimenting on rachni and Thorian creepers. But she signs right on the dotted line after Freedom's Progress, based on the testimony of Cerberus agents and one traumatized quarian. Srsly?

Oh, and look at that, the Illusive Man repeatedly lies to Shepard and places her and her crew in mortal danger, and refuses to share vital intel, and allows Shepard to get lured into a trap on the Collector Ship, and we learn that the Illusive Man was responsible for luring the Collectors to Horizon by leaking the info to them that Kaidan/Ashley was going to be on Horizon. And Shepard learns about this, and apparently accepts TIM's rationale of wanting to prove his pet theory that the Collectors were interested in Shepard. Mind you, he KNOWS the Collectors are interested in Shepard, since the Shadow Broker was trying to help the Collectors obtain Shepard's body, until Cerberus snatched it away. But in any case, Shepard can only make half-hearted attempts at gaining support outside of Cerberus, and doesn't look for "dossiers" outside of the pile that TIM gives her. It's only at the end of ME2 that Shepard can defy the Illusive Man, but by that point it seems more like a fit of pique than any real moral objection to the Illusive Man's goals and methods.

And at no point does she ask herself whether chasing the Collectors is the Big Picture Best Use Of Her Time. As we learn in ME3, it was pretty much a giant side-quest. One half-finished Human Reaper wasn't ever going to be a big factor in the upcoming Reaper invasion, and if Shepard hadn't been so preoccupied by that task, might she have been able to forestall the Alpha Relay situation sooner? And don't even get me started on Shepard's derptastic handling of Dr. Kenson and her henchmen. I mean, REALLY SHEPARD? "You found a Reaper artifact? How are you not Indoctrinated?" "We were careful." "Oh, okay! SO glad you're not Indoctrinated." If I could have b¡tchslapped Shepard, I so would have.

And of course this thread is about the absurdities of the writing in ME3, many of which I agree with. Please BioWare, for the love of Cod, can we just have writing that doesn't insult our intelligence? That's really all we ask for. Hate to break it to you guys, but we ARE paying attention, and we ARE remembering what came before, and we ARE thinking about the through line and the implications and the paths not taken. Give us some credit, we're smarter than you think.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 30 mars 2012 - 04:43 .

[ahandsomeshark]

these two quotes from PC Power play sum it up quite nicely:

"The story itself also suffers. Finding a way to end the conflict with the Reapers was always going to be a difficult one; prior to release, BioWare stated it would not be resolved by uncovering some long-lost Reaper “off” button. Good stuff; ending with a silly macguffin would not be the way to do it. So, instead, Mass Effect 3 has Shepard look under the couch to find some IKEA assembly instructions for a dick-shaped superweapon that, when activated, will function as a long-lost Reaper “off” button. G-d dammit."

"More than anything, this makes the game less replayable – this is not a time and place you’ll want to revisit. There’s also less to explore, as you don’t feel like you’re seeing actual planets. Instead, Shepard is shuttle-dropped into various contained hot-zones in a cinematic fashion and is immediately beset by enemies. As the Citadel is the only hub world, the RPG bits and the shooty bits have become even more separate – further evidenced by the fact that Shepard can no longer choose when to holster her weapon."

[dfstone]

The problem I had was the storyline in ME3 reduces the storylines in ME1 and ME2 to side quests. At the end I thought to myself well WTF, why did they even bother to make ME1 and 2 if this is how it ends? No matter what I did in the other 2 games it didn't really matter to how the final installment ended. I was sort of left with the feeling that I'd been punked.

[jumpingkaede]

Siansonea II wrote...

I've often scratched my head at the overall writing, since ME2, in fact. Something happened between ME1 and ME2, and the logical consistency of the narrative seemed to be the last priority from that point on.

It wasn't great but it was enough that I bought it.  Plus in my game I went to the Citadel first so I got told in no uncertain terms that the Alliance wasn't going to help me.

Plus, like I told Jacob, they brought Shepard back to life so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one just once. 

Then he betrayed me later on the IFF mission but I got an awesome Normandy and crew and by that point I needed to stop the Collectors so that took precedence over previous Cerberus nonsense.  Collector threat > Cerberus threat.  

As it turns out, it was one big mostly meaningless in the context of the trilogy sidequest, but I was having fun with it so no care.