150 réponses à ce sujet

[dfstone]

I thought ME1 and ME2 flowed together nicely. A lot of what you did in ME1 carried over to ME2 in significant, if not essential, ways. Like saving the council and saving wrex. The story fit. At the end of ME1 you released the citadel from reaper control and destroyed soverign leaving the Reapers trapped in dark-space. In ME2 the Collectors stepped in, kidnapping humans in order to make a new Reaper to make up for the loss of Soverign and find a way to bring the reapers back. Even in the DLC, Arrival the reapers were going to use the Alpha Relay to get back but you destroyed it leaving them trapped again.

Then we fast forward to ME3 and its like WTF happened? Somehow the Reapers managed to get out of dark space and back into the galaxy without soverign, or its human/reaper replacement, or the collectors, or the alpha relay. So if the Reapers could have just returned whenver they wanted to then why the hell did we even bother to do ME1 or 2? Its like both those games were totally pointless.

[Fuzzfro]

A lot of this can be ignored and overlooked or even filled in easily by the audience especially in contrast to the stronger points in the game (genophage, geth-quarian conflcit).

It's only towards the ending starting at the Cerberus base mission that things went drastically downhill. The lack of a proper showdown with the illusive man, your choice on keep/destroying collector base meant nothing, no harbinger showdown even though he is the main villain in mass effect 2, No directing or even seeing many of your collected war assets, horrible explanation for reapers that is void of any reasonable logic, A weird ghostly child that controls the reapers that just opens up more plotholes, 3 set endings with litte-no variation which make absolutely no sense, endings with consequences that doom the entire universe and no epilouge whatsoever.

It's these faults that open our eyes up to some of the more minor problems and writing errors within the game. I wish bioware spent another 6-12 months making the game so they could finally get some of these aspects right.

[AnacondaDarce]

I agree with you on the opening, i could of sworn you were supposed to be on trial when the reapers attacked, although that could of had something to to do the script for the game being leaked (can't remember if that really happened or not) and I think the citadel was moved to earth because the reapers knew that you knew that the citadel was the catalyst and most of the reaper forces were on earth so it would be easier to protect, not sure though.

[ahandsomeshark]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I've often scratched my head at the overall writing, since ME2, in fact. Something happened between ME1 and ME2, and the logical consistency of the narrative seemed to be the last priority from that point on.

It wasn't great but it was enough that I bought it.  Plus in my game I went to the Citadel first so I got told in no uncertain terms that the Alliance wasn't going to help me.

Plus, like I told Jacob, they brought Shepard back to life so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one just once. 

Then he betrayed me later on the IFF mission but I got an awesome Normandy and crew and by that point I needed to stop the Collectors so that took precedence over previous Cerberus nonsense.  Collector threat > Cerberus threat.  

As it turns out, it was one big mostly meaningless in the context of the trilogy sidequest, but I was having fun with it so no care. 

Also even though the background story was fuzzy the main point was really learning about the terminus systems and building a squad, and for the most part the writing behind the characters and Omega and Illium and what not was fantastic so I was willing to forgive a bit of sequel decay in the main plot (which really is kind of inevitable for any second entry in a planned trilogy since you have to figure out a way to provide a reasonable link that doesn't mimic the first story too much). In this game though the poorly thought out plot is impossible to ignore. Partially because the plot is so important in the end of trilogies and partially because the writing is sparse all over (including characters).

[Davnort]

1.the opening wasnt that bad. it was better than ME2, but worse than ME1.
2.come on man. this was gimmie.you shouldve known that there was gonna be a super weapon used to beat the reapers.(maybe not a complete gimmie,but he idea shouldve crossed your mind after the battle with sovereign)
3.TIM needed the citadel under his control so he can control the reapers.
4.ill just leave this squiggly here ~
5.the kid. stated in the artbook that came with the N7. says that he represents humanity.and you can hear the voices of your dead teammates.
6.please take another squiggly? ~

there is alot more holes in this game.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Luc0s wrote...

 Lets be honest folks, it was not just the ending of ME3 that was bad. The entire plot of ME3 was at the very least cheesy as hell.

The Mass Effect story has always been heavy on the cheese. That's part of its charm, in fact. The problem isn't that it's plot is cheesy. The problem is that its plot undermines itself in the last ten minutes.

[dfstone]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

 Lets be honest folks, it was not just the ending of ME3 that was bad. The entire plot of ME3 was at the very least cheesy as hell.

The Mass Effect story has always been heavy on the cheese. That's part of its charm, in fact. The problem isn't that it's plot is cheesy. The problem is that its plot undermines itself in the last ten minutes.

I think the plot undermines itself from the very start of ME3. 

[ahandsomeshark]

Davnort wrote...

2.come on man. this was gimmie.you shouldve known that there was gonna be a super weapon used to beat the reapers.(maybe not a complete gimmie,but he idea shouldve crossed your mind after the battle with sovereign) .

they specifically said there wouldn't be an ancient reaper off button used to resolve the story. Which is probably why most people weren't expecting it.

[ahandsomeshark]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

 Lets be honest folks, it was not just the ending of ME3 that was bad. The entire plot of ME3 was at the very least cheesy as hell.

The Mass Effect story has always been heavy on the cheese. That's part of its charm, in fact. The problem isn't that it's plot is cheesy. The problem is that its plot undermines itself in the last ten minutes.

to me there's a difference, ME1 was more of an homage to some of the cheese in past sci fi movies. In ME3 it seemed like it was relying on the cheese as easy tropes to stick in rather than actual compelling writing.

[Davnort]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

 Lets be honest folks, it was not just the ending of ME3 that was bad. The entire plot of ME3 was at the very least cheesy as hell.

The Mass Effect story has always been heavy on the cheese. That's part of its charm, in fact. The problem isn't that it's plot is cheesy. The problem is that its plot undermines itself in the last ten minutes.

willing to accept anything as long as it stayed true to the lore.
hell id accept giant sandwiches come in the last 20 mins and engage in an epic battle with the reapers.
cause that doesnt make you question what happened in the first 2 games.
and it sets up the plot for the 4th one. you must gather an army to stop the sandwich overlords

[Davnort]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Davnort wrote...

2.come on man. this was gimmie.you shouldve known that there was gonna be a super weapon used to beat the reapers.(maybe not a complete gimmie,but he idea shouldve crossed your mind after the battle with sovereign) .

they specifically said there wouldn't be an ancient reaper off button used to resolve the story. Which is probably why most people weren't expecting it.

i withdraw that argument. as i didnt know that.

[jumpingkaede]

Davnort wrote...

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

 Lets be honest folks, it was not just the ending of ME3 that was bad. The entire plot of ME3 was at the very least cheesy as hell.

The Mass Effect story has always been heavy on the cheese. That's part of its charm, in fact. The problem isn't that it's plot is cheesy. The problem is that its plot undermines itself in the last ten minutes.

willing to accept anything as long as it stayed true to the lore.
hell id accept giant sandwiches come in the last 20 mins and engage in an epic battle with the reapers.
cause that doesnt make you question what happened in the first 2 games.
and it sets up the plot for the 4th one. you must gather an army to stop the sandwich overlords

How pissed off would fans have been if the Reapers were stopped by even bigger MEGA-Reapers who from GALAXY TO GALAXY and Reap the regular Reapers every 5,000,000,000 years.

Cutscene of Harbinger talkingto Reaperius Maximus:

Harbinger: "BUT WHY?"

Reaperius Maximus: "YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND OUR PURPOSE."

Shepard in background chuckling.

[RukiaKuchki]

So...you don't like the end. You don't like the beginning. You don't like the conversations. You don't like the fact that a lot of information is stored in a detailed codex in order to cut down the need for exposition. You don't like the relationships between characters. You don't like/don't understand the characters motivations. You don't care for the overall story arc. You don't care for the side missions. Et cetera, et cetera....

Perhaps it's just time for you to let Mass Effect go, move on to something that you do like, and stop getting yourself so worked up on the forums? None of these things are going to change, no matter how much you jump up and down, stamp your feet and make lists of complaints. You've invested your money on something you found disappointing...well, that happens sometimes. It hurts, but you're not going to die! This really isn't the end of the world. There will be more games, and there will be more disappointments and hopefully some wonderful surprises. Just let it go. Seriously. All this regurgitation of the same things again and again and again is not healthy.

[Davnort]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Davnort wrote...

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

 Lets be honest folks, it was not just the ending of ME3 that was bad. The entire plot of ME3 was at the very least cheesy as hell.

The Mass Effect story has always been heavy on the cheese. That's part of its charm, in fact. The problem isn't that it's plot is cheesy. The problem is that its plot undermines itself in the last ten minutes.

willing to accept anything as long as it stayed true to the lore.
hell id accept giant sandwiches come in the last 20 mins and engage in an epic battle with the reapers.
cause that doesnt make you question what happened in the first 2 games.
and it sets up the plot for the 4th one. you must gather an army to stop the sandwich overlords

How pissed off would fans have been if the Reapers were stopped by even bigger MEGA-Reapers who from GALAXY TO GALAXY and Reap the regular Reapers every 5,000,000,000 years.

Cutscene of Harbinger talkingto Reaperius Maximus:

Harbinger: "BUT WHY?"

Reaperius Maximus: "YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND OUR PURPOSE."

Shepard in background chuckling.

then we get to have harby as a squadmate

[ahandsomeshark]

RukiaKuchki wrote...

So...you don't like the end. You don't like the beginning. You don't like the conversations. You don't like the fact that a lot of information is stored in a detailed codex in order to cut down the need for exposition. You don't like the relationships between characters. You don't like/don't understand the characters motivations. You don't care for the overall story arc. You don't care for the side missions. Et cetera, et cetera....

Perhaps it's just time for you to let Mass Effect go, move on to something that you do like, and stop getting yourself so worked up on the forums? None of these things are going to change, no matter how much you jump up and down, stamp your feet and make lists of complaints. You've invested your money on something you found disappointing...well, that happens sometimes. It hurts, but you're not going to die! This really isn't the end of the world. There will be more games, and there will be more disappointments and hopefully some wonderful surprises. Just let it go. Seriously. All this regurgitation of the same things again and again and again is not healthy.

I think most of the people here are here because they love bioware games in general and they're hoping that DA2 and this game aren't a sign of things to come and a shift in the type of games bioware releases. And how else can we express to bioware (a company that says it's always valued fan feedback) these concerns if by not making them heart on this board? It's not just about money I've invested, it's about future games.

Edit: Also It's not just that people don't care for those things, I don't care for CoD so I don't buy it. It's that these things that had become central to bioware games (exposition, side missions, in depth story-lines) are suddenly missing in ME3. So I think a alot of people are here to try and find out if this is a sign that bioware has shifted it's focus, or if this was just a one time thing (whether it was a misstep or just how they thought this game played out best but not neccessarily indicative of future releases). 

Modifié par ahandsomeshark, 30 mars 2012 - 05:19 .

[jumpingkaede]

Davnort wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...

Davnort wrote...

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

 Lets be honest folks, it was not just the ending of ME3 that was bad. The entire plot of ME3 was at the very least cheesy as hell.

The Mass Effect story has always been heavy on the cheese. That's part of its charm, in fact. The problem isn't that it's plot is cheesy. The problem is that its plot undermines itself in the last ten minutes.

willing to accept anything as long as it stayed true to the lore.
hell id accept giant sandwiches come in the last 20 mins and engage in an epic battle with the reapers.
cause that doesnt make you question what happened in the first 2 games.
and it sets up the plot for the 4th one. you must gather an army to stop the sandwich overlords

How pissed off would fans have been if the Reapers were stopped by even bigger MEGA-Reapers who from GALAXY TO GALAXY and Reap the regular Reapers every 5,000,000,000 years.

Cutscene of Harbinger talkingto Reaperius Maximus:

Harbinger: "BUT WHY?"

Reaperius Maximus: "YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND OUR PURPOSE."

Shepard in background chuckling.

then we get to have harby as a squadmate

I would bring him on every mission for the squad dialogue.  Ruh roh being introduced to the other Reapers as the guy who killed Sovereign... talk about awkward?

[ahandsomeshark]

tl,dr: basically I think most of us are just waiting to find out if we should wipe bioware off our always buy list forever, or if we should continue getting excited for new bioware games and IPS.

Modifié par ahandsomeshark, 30 mars 2012 - 05:18 .

[Davnort]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Davnort wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...

Davnort wrote...

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

 Lets be honest folks, it was not just the ending of ME3 that was bad. The entire plot of ME3 was at the very least cheesy as hell.

The Mass Effect story has always been heavy on the cheese. That's part of its charm, in fact. The problem isn't that it's plot is cheesy. The problem is that its plot undermines itself in the last ten minutes.

willing to accept anything as long as it stayed true to the lore.
hell id accept giant sandwiches come in the last 20 mins and engage in an epic battle with the reapers.
cause that doesnt make you question what happened in the first 2 games.
and it sets up the plot for the 4th one. you must gather an army to stop the sandwich overlords

How pissed off would fans have been if the Reapers were stopped by even bigger MEGA-Reapers who from GALAXY TO GALAXY and Reap the regular Reapers every 5,000,000,000 years.

Cutscene of Harbinger talkingto Reaperius Maximus:

Harbinger: "BUT WHY?"

Reaperius Maximus: "YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND OUR PURPOSE."

Shepard in background chuckling.

then we get to have harby as a squadmate

I would bring him on every mission for the squad dialogue.  Ruh roh being introduced to the other Reapers as the guy who killed Sovereign... talk about awkward?

harby wont let anyone hurt us. cause only he can hurt sheploo

[k8ee]

Agreed about the beginning. When I played the demo I was convinced there would be more at the beginning, like something to tie the second game to the third, just like we had with ME2, but there was nothing. And I had just finished playing the first two games again, including all the DLC, so I was fresh from playing Arrival. Felt like I got away with killing 300 000 batarians with little or no ramifications. I wanted to see them throw the book at Shepard, toss her in a cell for awhile, SOMETHING.

I will admit I liked the dreams, I liked that we saw a side of Shepard that was a little more human, though maybe that's because I'm a chick. Who knows.

I was so optimistic about this game that I was willing for forgive A LOT. I forgave that I couldn't import my face and had to go back to me ME1 import and copy down where the damn sliders were and then input those into ME3. I forgave the messed up journal, using the map instead to find people of interest. I forgave the way Shepard derped around in a few spots, seemingly unable to act on things that were happening (during the coupe... Thessia). I could even ignore the bizarre movement of the Citadel... sure the reapers want to guard it... ok... what happened to everyone living there? Well... who knows... but there it is, above Earth. I was... with some effort... able to accept that.

As has been said a thousand times before, it was the end that broke me. I have tried to start a new playthrough, but I just can't. I was able to forgive ALL the other problems, but for me that ending was it for me.

[AnsinJung]

The Coup is tied up with TIM changing from ME2 to ME3, explained away with indoctrination. That's not that bad.

The Crucible was necessary after making the Reapers unstoppable. The idea of it becoming a little more complete each cycle was pretty good.

FFVII Cloud's dream about Aerith leaving was also slow motion. He isn't derided for this. Shepard does hear dead friends in dreams. The first one happens after VS gets coma'd, the second after Mordin. If you hate the child, so be it, but I like how it fits into IT, which aspect I "got" before anyone explained it to me.

Stronger point about the beginning on Earth. The Citadel at the end also requires some dismissive hand waving. It's there for greater climax, blah blah. It does fit nicely with the Crucible though.

[RukiaKuchki]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

RukiaKuchki wrote...

So...you don't like the end. You don't like the beginning. You don't like the conversations. You don't like the fact that a lot of information is stored in a detailed codex in order to cut down the need for exposition. You don't like the relationships between characters. You don't like/don't understand the characters motivations. You don't care for the overall story arc. You don't care for the side missions. Et cetera, et cetera....

Perhaps it's just time for you to let Mass Effect go, move on to something that you do like, and stop getting yourself so worked up on the forums? None of these things are going to change, no matter how much you jump up and down, stamp your feet and make lists of complaints. You've invested your money on something you found disappointing...well, that happens sometimes. It hurts, but you're not going to die! This really isn't the end of the world. There will be more games, and there will be more disappointments and hopefully some wonderful surprises. Just let it go. Seriously. All this regurgitation of the same things again and again and again is not healthy.

I think most of the people here are here because they love bioware games in general and they're hoping that DA2 and this game aren't a sign of things to come and a shift in the type of games bioware releases. And how else can we express to bioware (a company that says it's always valued fan feedback) these concerns if by not making them heart on this board? It's not just about money I've invested, it's about future games.

Edit: Also It's not just that people don't care for those things, I don't care for CoD so I don't buy it. It's that these things that had become central to bioware games (exposition, side missions, in depth story-lines) are suddenly missing in ME3. So I think a alot of people are here to try and find out if this is a sign that bioware has shifted it's focus, or if this was just a one time thing (whether it was a misstep or just how they thought this game played out best but not neccessarily indicative of future releases). 

I appreciate the reasoned reply! There is no way Bioware isn't aware of the fans' opinions, and by repeating the same things again and again, louder and louder, for weeks and weeks - it doesn't necesarily make them listen to you any harder. What this whole situation (and, in my opinion, this rather tedious 'Take Back Mass Effect' campaign) has very successfully achieved is that no studio will attempt to do what Bioware has done with Mass Effect. Bioware are likely to be more tentative, mainstream and 'safe' with their future output. They took a huge risk with Mass Effect, and 99% of other studios out there would have cut their losses after the first installment once they realised the monumental task ahead of them. I certainly don't believe that Mass Effect 3 was a triumph - it's buggy as hell and I haven't a clue what was going on in the last 15 minutes like just about everyone else - but I have a sense of awe in what they achieved, no matter how imperfect.  People who are so quick to turn on them so visciously because the ending wasn't everything they've ever dreamed of, are just not true fans. Starting threads to brag about how many people you've convinced not to buy the game, how to cause upset and embarrassment at PAX, how to dissect the Bioware/EA PR machine creating a disturbing 'us vs them' scenario ... these actions are not performed by people who want to start a dialogue. They are actions performed by people who have a loosened grip on the reality of this situation. So yes, I think these people really do need to move on because it's just not healthy.

[The Harmonizer]

1. DLC
2. DLC
3. DLC
4. DLC
5. DLC
6. DLC