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[tenojitsu]

EDIT: Sorry that this is a bit long. I've had way too much time to think about this.

This is my response to a comment that Mike Gamble made in another thread. This is only my feelings, and I am not speaking on behalf of the Retake folks. If you happen to feel the same way, feel free to sign or comment.

Michael Gamble wrote...

Folks,

I don't represent whether or not EA funds us for any DLC content. EA supports us, don't worry about that. I help to manage some of that budget, yes, but my primary goal is to work with Casey (the executive producer) and the other creative visionaries around BioWare and create something we are proud of.

I can understand how Producers get a bad reputation sometimes - but most of us care passionately about the product we are putting out. Of course, having a financially successful game is important - but making something we are proud of, and something that's a very high quality is even more important to me.

More soon...And see, we still do read the forums

Mike,

I think everyone appreciates that you guys really do care about what you comes out of your studio, but at the end of the day isnt it the people with the really nice suits who have the final say? No doubt you all at BioWare love the ME universe, but at least in my opinion, the people in those suits really only care about the bottom line. I've been around the corporate environment long enough to know thats usually how it works. I cannot speak for everyone, but to me, it seems like the suits influence has gotten really strong in ME3.

The whole multiplayer thing seems to stink of a corporate decision. Not that multiplayer isnt fun, because it is. But having it tied to single player seems unethical to me. ME was always a single player game. Now we have play multiplayer or an iOS app to able to get the "best" ending? Seems like the suits just wanted to make sure that people who bought used games also had to purchase the online pass, and maybe will pick up some Spectre packs as well.

I have my little conspiracy theory regarding the ending and what future DLC will bring, but I'll spare you all the details. All I'll say is that I'm confident that more content regarding the ending will be released, and I'm sure we'll have to pay for it. If my conspiracy theory isnt correct, then I wouldnt mind paying for it either, but as I feel now, I dont thinks it right to charge for it. The fact that a conspiracy theory is even rolling around my head when it comes to BioWare saddens me, as I really like and TRUSTED the studio.

The aforementioned implementation of the multiplayer has weakened this trust. I dont think im exaggerating when I say I believe BioWare has some of the brightest minds in the industy working on their games, and I'm sure someone along the line of developement would have noticed how the joining of multiplayer and single player would have this type of effect on players. That being said, it proves to me that corporate masters made this decision, and not BioWare. The journal not updating, the weapons rating bars not changing after you upgrade a weapon, and the face import bug dont seem to be par for the course for BioWare. It just feels like there must have been an outside influence for the game to be released with these issues. Enter the suits...

I have spent a lot of time thinking about these issues, as well as the whole Mass Effect universe. It's a testament to the level of story telling, design, and pretty much every aspect the game that BioWare was able to create. Its a series that you can lose yourself in. The fact that this series is even being compared to Star Wars is a testament to BioWare as well. I agreed with the Mass Effect story being this generations Star Wars, until the ending.

Unfortunetely the games ending (as it stands now), comparing it to the comments from different BioWare employees I've read and heard regarding what the end was going to be, takes Mass Effect way out of the Star Wars league for me. The ending that I previously thought was going to be released, sounds terrific though. The deaths of Mordin, Legion, and Thane are all an epitome of bittersweet. So confusing how a concept that BioWare seems to had perfected doesnt really meet the company's own level of execution during the ending sequence. I understand that BioWare's hands are tied at the momment when it comes to speaking about the ending, so I'll be patient a little while longer, but not indefinetely.

Despite these things that seem so out of place for BioWare and the Mass Effect series, you should know that I still LOVE this game as whole, I think. Perhaps the appropriate way to say it is that I am ready to LOVE this game, just cant do it because the game doesnt love me back. I'm not saying that a "happy" ending would be the game loving me back. All I need is an ending that is on par with the rest of the game, regardless of whatever direction it goes. That, along with the polishing of the other bugs I've mentioned will put this game in the place of gaming history where it truly belongs. The characters deserve it, the fans deserve it, the whole Mass Effect universe deserves it. Most of all, BioWare deserves it. BioWare deserves to have this series of games be one of the greatest trilogies of all time, of any medium.

Modifié par tenojitsu, 30 mars 2012 - 03:41 .

[GoblinSapper]

Greedy Space Banker approves this message

[tenojitsu]

GoblinSapper wrote...

Greedy Space Banker approves this message

Glad at least one person read it, lol. Thanks.

[Naltair]

Looking at some early documents for when they pitched Mass Effect, one of the goals was to have a multiplayer aspect to the game. I say they found a good way to do it and actually make a quality little game out of it.

But I am a fan of the series and the multiplayer.

[Tiggerous]

Well said OP

[Flashlegend]

A good read and a good message OP.

[tenojitsu]

Naltair wrote...

Looking at some early documents for when they pitched Mass Effect, one of the goals was to have a multiplayer aspect to the game. I say they found a good way to do it and actually make a quality little game out of it.

But I am a fan of the series and the multiplayer.

I am also a fan of the series and as I stated, I think the multiplayer is fun. No disagreement there. I just feel that making it a requirement for single player is a ploy to sell online passes to gamers that purchase their games used.

[jarms48]

Support

[Murkman4683]

Read the first word of each paragraph; I, The, I, The, I, Unfortunately, and Despite. I am going to go out on a limb an agree with everything you said.

Overall a nice professional post, a bit too civil for these forums, but acceptable.

[Sohlito]

Agreed OP. Hopefully more take the time to read it.

[tenojitsu]

Murkman4683 wrote...

Read the first word of each paragraph; I, The, I, The, I, Unfortunately, and Despite. I am going to go out on a limb an agree with everything you said.

Overall a nice professional post, a bit too civil for these forums, but acceptable.

I wanted to be clear that I was speaking for myself, and not the Retake movement. I dont like putting words in other peoples mouths. BioWare seems to not want nasty comments, so I tried to keep it as subjective as I could without getting too passionate. Thanks for kind words though

[tenojitsu]

shameful bump

Modifié par tenojitsu, 30 mars 2012 - 04:08 .

[PSUHammer]

Why do people write "Please Read" in thread titles? Isn't it implied that you want someone to read it? It is a forum where people log in to read threads, right?

/RANT

[tenojitsu]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Why do people write "Please Read" in thread titles? Isn't it implied that you want someone to read it? It is a forum where people log in to read threads, right?

/RANT

Good job having something relevant to say

[Dendio1]

I really like and TRUSTED the studio.

Nice post. The only problem I had was the above. Bioware is a company. Companies exist to make money. So long as what im buying is quality, im willing to pay. You shouldnt trust a company to ask for anything less.

[cbqueue]

well put, bravo!

[tenojitsu]

Dendio1 wrote...

I really like and TRUSTED the studio.

Nice post. The only problem I had was the above. Bioware is a company. Companies exist to make money. So long as what im buying is quality, im willing to pay. You shouldnt trust a company to ask for anything less.

I guess what I was trying to say was that move to integrate mulitplayer into single player made me much more cautious about how far they would go to make money. Agreed, companies exist to be profitable, but to what lengths they will go is what is in question here. It's like a typical paragon/renegade response, where choice matters. +5 renegade on the decision to make multiplayer influence single player

[stuka1000]

I agree completely. I feel sad for Bioware that they must now bow down to these faceless corporate drones sat in EA's ivory tower. Multiplayer should never have been a part of this game, all it achieved was to take away development time and money from the single player experience which has always been the focus of the ME series; resulting in cut corners ( conversations with no player input apart from pressing the spacebar, missions that were clearly penned in at some point to be full missions but that turned into simple planet scans ( The Elcor ) and yes, the terrible ending ). Then to rub salt in the wounds Emilly Wong was killed off on twitter ( a medium not everyone bothers with ) to make room for an employee of IGN that would ensure the game got good ratings, just incase the advertising money wasn't enough. Bioware would never have been guilty of these things before they were swallowed by EA and they have my sympathies.

[Naltair]

tenojitsu wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Looking at some early documents for when they pitched Mass Effect, one of the goals was to have a multiplayer aspect to the game. I say they found a good way to do it and actually make a quality little game out of it.

But I am a fan of the series and the multiplayer.

I am also a fan of the series and as I stated, I think the multiplayer is fun. No disagreement there. I just feel that making it a requirement for single player is a ploy to sell online passes to gamers that purchase their games used.

They would have found another way to sell you an online pass, so I am not sure why you blame MP specifically for that.

[tenojitsu]

Naltair wrote...

tenojitsu wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Looking at some early documents for when they pitched Mass Effect, one of the goals was to have a multiplayer aspect to the game. I say they found a good way to do it and actually make a quality little game out of it.

But I am a fan of the series and the multiplayer.

I am also a fan of the series and as I stated, I think the multiplayer is fun. No disagreement there. I just feel that making it a requirement for single player is a ploy to sell online passes to gamers that purchase their games used.

They would have found another way to sell you an online pass, so I am not sure why you blame MP specifically for that.

Not sure how else to sell online passes if its strictly a single player game. If they would require an online pass just to connect to the servers for whatever reason, it would be too obvious that it a scam for more money. By linking single player to multiplayer they can always claim that they are charging for the pass because they are giving you something for that investment, the multiplayer mode (which is true).

Why link the multiplayer mode with single player? The only answer I can come up with is to get players to play the multiplayer mode. I highly doubt if EA never invented online passes in the first place and they didnt exist , there would be no link between the two. Can you think of any reasons why to have the two mode linked? I cant.

Modifié par tenojitsu, 30 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[devSin]

Naltair wrote...

They would have found another way to sell you an online pass, so I am not sure why you blame MP specifically for that.

I think the argument is for the instances where multiplayer became a requisite to accessing single-player content, instead of merely an alternative like they consistently claimed.

I'm glad the multiplayer is there. A lot of people seem to enjoy it, which is great, and I think its incorporation maybe led to smart gameplay adjustments that benefit everyone. But it's not acceptable when it becomes a requirement, and although that shouldn't obviate its entire existence, it obviously wouldn't be the case if it weren't there.

It's also unknown how the Galaxy at War system, which is admittedly a little inane for what it's supposed to represent, would be different if it wasn't tied into something that you can influence through multiplayer and with other content. (Reducing the state of the galaxy down to a glorified scoreboard is a little... underwhelming, to be honest.)

I'm not bothered by multiplayer, but I'll be much happier when all single-player content is accessible through single-player alone.

[Dendio1]

tenojitsu wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

I really like and TRUSTED the studio.

Nice post. The only problem I had was the above. Bioware is a company. Companies exist to make money. So long as what im buying is quality, im willing to pay. You shouldnt trust a company to ask for anything less.

I guess what I was trying to say was that move to integrate mulitplayer into single player made me much more cautious about how far they would go to make money. Agreed, companies exist to be profitable, but to what lengths they will go is what is in question here. It's like a typical paragon/renegade response, where choice matters. +5 renegade on the decision to make multiplayer influence single player

Right now we need multiplayer for the best ending. I have a strong feeling DLC will make it so single player can get the  best ending on its own.

[Scorpii]

Great post!

[tenojitsu]

stuka1000 wrote...

I agree completely. I feel sad for Bioware that they must now bow down to these faceless corporate drones sat in EA's ivory tower. Multiplayer should never have been a part of this game, all it achieved was to take away development time and money from the single player experience which has always been the focus of the ME series; resulting in cut corners ( conversations with no player input apart from pressing the spacebar, missions that were clearly penned in at some point to be full missions but that turned into simple planet scans ( The Elcor ) and yes, the terrible ending ). Then to rub salt in the wounds Emilly Wong was killed off on twitter ( a medium not everyone bothers with ) to make room for an employee of IGN that would ensure the game got good ratings, just incase the advertising money wasn't enough. Bioware would never have been guilty of these things before they were swallowed by EA and they have my sympathies.

To be fair, I heard that a seperate studio developed the multiplayer, so not sure how much in the way of resources was diverted from the single player game because of multiplayer. I dont know if this is true or not, just something I heard. I'm giving BioWare the benefit of the doubt on this one that multiplayer didnt affect the production of the single player game. Before I heard this, however, I felt the same exact way as you regarding the existence of multiplayer.

[tenojitsu]

Dendio1 wrote...

tenojitsu wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

I really like and TRUSTED the studio.

Nice post. The only problem I had was the above. Bioware is a company. Companies exist to make money. So long as what im buying is quality, im willing to pay. You shouldnt trust a company to ask for anything less.

I guess what I was trying to say was that move to integrate mulitplayer into single player made me much more cautious about how far they would go to make money. Agreed, companies exist to be profitable, but to what lengths they will go is what is in question here. It's like a typical paragon/renegade response, where choice matters. +5 renegade on the decision to make multiplayer influence single player

Right now we need multiplayer for the best ending. I have a strong feeling DLC will make it so single player can get the  best ending on its own.

I 100% agree that as DLC comes out multiplayer will not be needed for the best ending. But think about that for a minute. Great, used game purchasers dont have to buy online passes, but now they are forced to buy who knows how many DLCs. Is that any better?