650 réponses à ce sujet

[MaestroX101]

DJBare wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...
Whatever way you look at it, people shouldn't expect Shepard to survive, whether he wins or loses the war. In fact, the game would have a perfect ending if Shepard didn't defeat the Reapers. There are warnings starting from ME1 telling Shepard that he only continues to delay the enevitable.

But it's also true that Shepard never takes a defeatist attitude, some guy tells me he is inevitably going to shoot me does not mean he is going to succeed.

I absolutely agree. But every enemy Shepard has faced isn't as superior as the Reapers, so it would be understandable (to me at least) if the Reapers did win in the end. But not saying it HAS to end that way.

[Delta_V2]

People are correct when they say a "sunshine and rainbows" ending wouldn't fit with the rest of the game. However, that is not what most people who want a "happy" ending want. What we want would actually be "bittersweet" by normal definitions, but would be much happier than what we got.

The general consensus for a "happy" ending seems to be as follows:
-relays intact
-Shepard survives and is reunited with LI and crew
-Earth + rest of galaxy heavily damaged
-billions dead

Those last two points are pretty much unavoidable, since they both happen throughout the course of the game, so no ending will ever be "sunshine and rainbows"

Personally, I've never understood the whole "Shepard must die" mindset. For some Shepards, it may be fitting, but Shepard has never really been a tragic hero. He didn't need to die anymore than Luke Skywalker or Captain Kirk needed to die. Of course, the option for sacrifice should be there, but so should the option for Shepard to live.

Compare that to Mordin. By the second time I talked to him back in ME2, I knew he wasn't going to survive this series, because he was a tragic hero.

[Deltoran]

Delta_V2 wrote...

People are correct when they say a "sunshine and rainbows" ending wouldn't fit with the rest of the game. However, that is not what most people who want a "happy" ending want. What we want would actually be "bittersweet" by normal definitions, but would be much happier than what we got.

The general consensus for a "happy" ending seems to be as follows:
-relays intact
-Shepard survives and is reunited with LI and crew
-Earth + rest of galaxy heavily damaged
-billions dead

Those last two points are pretty much unavoidable, since they both happen throughout the course of the game, so no ending will ever be "sunshine and rainbows"

Personally, I've never understood the whole "Shepard must die" mindset. For some Shepards, it may be fitting, but Shepard has never really been a tragic hero. He didn't need to die anymore than Luke Skywalker or Captain Kirk needed to die. Of course, the option for sacrifice should be there, but so should the option for Shepard to live.

Compare that to Mordin. By the second time I talked to him back in ME2, I knew he wasn't going to survive this series, because he was a tragic hero.

Nicely said, I agree.

[DeinonSlayer]

Delta_V2 wrote...

People are correct when they say a "sunshine and rainbows" ending wouldn't fit with the rest of the game. However, that is not what most people who want a "happy" ending want. What we want would actually be "bittersweet" by normal definitions, but would be much happier than what we got.

The general consensus for a "happy" ending seems to be as follows:
-relays intact
-Shepard survives and is reunited with LI and crew
-Earth + rest of galaxy heavily damaged
-billions dead

Those last two points are pretty much unavoidable, since they both happen throughout the course of the game, so no ending will ever be "sunshine and rainbows"

Personally, I've never understood the whole "Shepard must die" mindset. For some Shepards, it may be fitting, but Shepard has never really been a tragic hero. He didn't need to die anymore than Luke Skywalker or Captain Kirk needed to die. Of course, the option for sacrifice should be there, but so should the option for Shepard to live.

Compare that to Mordin. By the second time I talked to him back in ME2, I knew he wasn't going to survive this series, because he was a tragic hero.

^ This.

[What a Succulent Ass]

True art is angsty.

...and speculative.

[jtrook]

I think if a player wants to put in extra time, then their Shep being alive and kicking is a good reward but on the other hand the ending would go from WTF! to eeehhh could of been better

[JBONE27]

I think that there should have been 5 possible endings.

1. Reapers win, and the only sentient species left are the Yahg.
2. Reapers lose, but Shepard and crew sacrifice the Earth and themselves to achieve it.
3. Reapers lose, but Shepard and crew sacrifice themselves to achieve it.
4. Reapers lose, but Some of Shepard's crew (possibly including Shepard) sacrifice themselves to achieve it.
5 Reapers lose, and Shepard a crew survive to rebuild the galaxy.

[BioWareM0d13]

The general consensus for a "happy" ending seems to be as follows:
-relays intact
-Shepard survives and is reunited with LI and crew
-Earth + rest of galaxy heavily damaged
-billions dead

I'd make a poor Geth in that case, as I disagree with the consensus.

The bold point is what would turn it into a  'butterflies and rainbows' ending, in my opinion. Considering the stakes involved it just shouldn't be possible to get every single person on the Normandy through the final battle unscathed. It would only undermine the Reapers as antagonists and make the victory seem too implausibly easy.

The other problem is that while billions may be dead and we the players may have some emotional reaction to that, in the end those billions are just a faceless statistic. Those people aren't actual characters in the story that we are emotionally invested in to the same degree as Garrus, or Liara, or Tali.  A player may read about 40,000 dying on some backwater colony, and probably isn't going to shed a tear over it. That same player might be bawling if Garrus died on screen. In order for the ending to have any emotional impact it has to be paid for with some level of sacrifice.


I also disagree with the notion that a squad mate dying somehow makes an ending unhappy. Kaidan or Ashley died on Virmire, but I'm sure everyone will agree that ME1 had a happy ending.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 30 mars 2012 - 05:48 .

[The Stabilo Boss]

My problem with a happy ending is that I feel like it would diminish the seriousness of the Reaper threat. For 3 games, we've been leading up to this big conflict with an unstoppable fleet of galaxy destroying machines - to defeat them without the whole galaxy making serious sacrifices would leave me thinking "That was it? That wasn't such a big deal. We didn't even break a sweat."

In the end, I think it just comes down to personal preference. I wouldn't be angry about a happy ending, but I would prefer a bittersweet one. Likewise, I would expect people who were hoping for a happy ending to accept a bittersweet one - even if it wasn't exactly what they wanted.

[DJBare]

The Stabilo Boss wrote...

My problem with a happy ending is that I feel like it would diminish the seriousness of the Reaper threat. For 3 games, we've been leading up to this big conflict with an unstoppable fleet of galaxy destroying machines - to defeat them without the whole galaxy making serious sacrifices would leave me thinking "That was it? That wasn't such a big deal. We didn't even break a sweat."

Billions are already dead or converted, whole planets have been wiped out, I'd say the Reapers have earned their reputation.

[RocketManSR2]

The Stabilo Boss wrote...

My problem with a happy ending is that I feel like it would diminish the seriousness of the Reaper threat. For 3 games, we've been leading up to this big conflict with an unstoppable fleet of galaxy destroying machines - to defeat them without the whole galaxy making serious sacrifices would leave me thinking "That was it? That wasn't such a big deal. We didn't even break a sweat."

In the end, I think it just comes down to personal preference. I wouldn't be angry about a happy ending, but I would prefer a bittersweet one. Likewise, I would expect people who were hoping for a happy ending to accept a bittersweet one - even if it wasn't exactly what they wanted.

Have you beaten the game? BioWare already did a fine job of that. I wouldn't mind bittersweet, but the 'sweet' part seems to be missing.

[RocketManSR2]

iVitriol wrote...

Because here on BSN, everybody has to b*tch about someting, no matter how small.

The ending of an epic trilogy is not something small.

[Heimdall]

JBONE27 wrote...

I've seen a lot of people on this board who either say, "Don't change the ending to something happy," or "I hope the ending DLC doesn't have a happy ending."  I say, if you have to work for it, why not have a happy ending.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has grown to love these characters, and I do want to see them happy.  Do I think the happy ending should be easy to achieve... HELL NO!  I believe that what ever is worth having, it's worth working hard for, and a happy ending with everyone you care about surviving, is worth having. 

Because my heroic sacrifice ending is incompatible with the existence of a happy ending where Shepard lives and everything goes well.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 30 mars 2012 - 05:56 .

[RocketManSR2]

Lord Aesir wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

I've seen a lot of people on this board who either say, "Don't change the ending to something happy," or "I hope the ending DLC doesn't have a happy ending."  I say, if you have to work for it, why not have a happy ending.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has grown to love these characters, and I do want to see them happy.  Do I think the happy ending should be easy to achieve... HELL NO!  I believe that what ever is worth having, it's worth working hard for, and a happy ending with everyone you care about surviving, is worth having. 

Because my heroic sacrifice ending is incompatible with a happy ending where Shepard lives and everything goes well.

How special for you. Others may like something different.

[BioWareM0d13]

DJBare wrote...

The Stabilo Boss wrote...

My problem with a happy ending is that I feel like it would diminish the seriousness of the Reaper threat. For 3 games, we've been leading up to this big conflict with an unstoppable fleet of galaxy destroying machines - to defeat them without the whole galaxy making serious sacrifices would leave me thinking "That was it? That wasn't such a big deal. We didn't even break a sweat."

Billions are already dead or converted, whole planets have been wiped out, I'd say the Reapers have earned their reputation.

The problem is that the player doesn't really know those billions. Seeing the damage done to the galaxy might provoke an emotional reaction, but no where near the level of seeing Shepard or a couple team mates die. An ending where eveyone on the Normandy's manifest survives would be lacking in emotional impact.

[RocketManSR2]

iVitriol wrote...

Trust me, I HATE the endings as they are now. I said that because people will complain just because others want an option for a happy ending.

Ah, I see. Carry on, then.

[The Stabilo Boss]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

The Stabilo Boss wrote...

My problem with a happy ending is that I feel like it would diminish the seriousness of the Reaper threat. For 3 games, we've been leading up to this big conflict with an unstoppable fleet of galaxy destroying machines - to defeat them without the whole galaxy making serious sacrifices would leave me thinking "That was it? That wasn't such a big deal. We didn't even break a sweat."

In the end, I think it just comes down to personal preference. I wouldn't be angry about a happy ending, but I would prefer a bittersweet one. Likewise, I would expect people who were hoping for a happy ending to accept a bittersweet one - even if it wasn't exactly what they wanted.

Have you beaten the game? BioWare already did a fine job of that. I wouldn't mind bittersweet, but the 'sweet' part seems to be missing.

I consider stopping the Reapers to be the sweet part. But I see how people could want a little less bitter and a little more sweet. Losing the relays AND Shepard was pretty intense.

[Rorschachinstein]

Which one is the happy ending. The green one or the blue one?

[Delta_V2]

Han Shot First wrote...

The general consensus for a "happy" ending seems to be as follows:
-relays intact
-Shepard survives and is reunited with LI and crew
-Earth + rest of galaxy heavily damaged
-billions dead

I'd make a poor Geth in that case, as I disagree with the consensus.

The bold point is what would turn it into a  'butterflies and rainbows' ending, in my opinion. Considering the stakes involved it just shouldn't be possible to get every single person on the Normandy through the final battle unscathed. It would only undermine the Reapers as antagonists and make the victory seem too implausibly easy.

The other problem is that while billions may be dead and we the players may have some emotional reaction to that, in the end those billions are just a faceless statistic. Those people aren't actual characters in the story that we are emotionally invested in to the same degree as Garrus, or Liara, or Tali.  A player may read about 40,000 dying on some backwater colony, and probably isn't going to shed a tear over it. That same player might be bawling if Garrus died on screen. In order for the ending to have any emotional impact it has to be paid for with some level of sacrifice.


I also disagree with the notion that a squad mate dying somehow makes an ending unhappy. Kaidan or Ashley died on Virmire, but I'm sure everyone will agree that ME1 had a happy ending.

A lot of this comes down to the exact tone of the endings.  Just because Shepard gets back with his/her LI doesn't mean it has to be a "hero gets the girl and rides off into the sunset" ending.  It could emphasize that, yes, you survived, but rebuilding from this mess is going to be a long, slow process.  Showing Shepard reuniting with their LI, but in the same scene showing that Earth is royally f'ed up, would add weight to the scene.

I didn't say there shouldn't be some casualties in your crew, but we've already lost people along the way.

You mention the billions are a faceless statistic, and this is true (just as Mordin said in ME2). 

How I would handle it (at this point, I don't care if it's a little cliche, and I'm not a writer): show some sort of memorial under construction, and have a flashback to all the people you've lost along the way.  Ashley/Kaidan, anyone who died on the SM, Mordin, Thane, Legion, Anderson, etc.  This could drive home the personal loss you've experienced.

[DJBare]

Han Shot First wrote...
The problem is that the player doesn't really know those billions. Seeing the damage done to the galaxy might provoke an emotional reaction, but no where near the level of seeing Shepard or a couple team mates die. An ending where eveyone on the Normandy's manifest survives would be lacking in emotional impact.

When standing on Thesia after Kai Leng got away, I certainly felt the emotional impact of Thesia being lost and it was not because of Liara, I got a stark reminder this was happening all over the galaxy.

[BioWareM0d13]

iVitriol wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

DJBare wrote...

The Stabilo Boss wrote...

My problem with a happy ending is that I feel like it would diminish the seriousness of the Reaper threat. For 3 games, we've been leading up to this big conflict with an unstoppable fleet of galaxy destroying machines - to defeat them without the whole galaxy making serious sacrifices would leave me thinking "That was it? That wasn't such a big deal. We didn't even break a sweat."

Billions are already dead or converted, whole planets have been wiped out, I'd say the Reapers have earned their reputation.

The problem is that the player doesn't really know those billions. Seeing the damage done to the galaxy might provoke an emotional reaction, but no where near the level of seeing Shepard or a couple team mates die. An ending where eveyone on the Normandy's manifest survives would be lacking in emotional impact.

I think getting out battered but alive sparks a serious emotional impact along the lines of holy sh*t, we just won!

Imagine for a moment if Saving Private Ryan ended with not a single member of the squad dying on the beach, or in the final battle in the town. Whatever emotional impact that victory scene would have had would have be undercut both by the implausible nature of that victory, and the fact that it was achieved without any sacrifice. Captain Miller's dying words to Private Ryan, to "Earn this," would have had no meaning if they all walked away to live happily ever after.

The final battle against the Reapers should involve someone on the team dying. If it isn't Shepard, it should be a crew member or two.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 30 mars 2012 - 06:13 .