650 réponses à ce sujet

[Rache123]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

ME3 had a real underdog theme to it... a happy ending would remove that.

It could be said that 1 & 2 had that, too. Just because this is part 3 doesn't mean everything should totally go to s***. How does it hurt you if others have the option to get what they want, too?

Agreed, we're just asking for the CHOICE of a happy ending, not ramming it down everyone's throats!

[jtrook]

 Here is an ending I would like it to where if I work hard enough I can get an ending where Shepard lives but the cynical squad mates (Javik) remind Shepard that while the reapers are gone, husks, cannibals, and others are still terrorizing the galaxy but now they are on an equal playing field. (This could allow for post DLC such as the retaking of Palaven, Thessia, etc.) At this point Shepard can jump on his space horse to ride off and defeat the left overs or go "Aaahh screw that. Im going to go some where sunny. Someone else can fix this for once" but more eloquently. 

[Jenetic]

MrAtomica wrote...

Dagasi wrote...

The ending of ME3 is, ultimately, a victory for all since the reaper threat is now gone or abated. The problem I had with it, however, is not that it was a "sad" ending, but that it never FELT like the victory it was supposed to be.

I understand that the ending was trying to match the overall theme of sacrifice for the greater good (and I totally get what the writers were trying to do), but I didn't expect as much soul-destroying bleakness as I got with the end. Again, that's how it FELT regardless of the writers' intentions. So I agree to a point with you OP.

Except that it isn't really a victory. Consider this:

Destroy - You destroy all advanced technology. This does nothing to prevent it from being rebuilt. Simultaneously, you are betraying the synthetics you have befriended earlier on (EDI and the Geth). You have committed genocide, both of the billions of lives trapped inside the Reapers, and the friends you turned on. You may have stayed true to your original goal, but at what cost?

Control - You perpetuate the enslavement of the Reapers. Essentially, you become the Catalyst. There is no guarantee that you will retain control, nor that you will not be corrupted by the process. The Reapers are not gone for good, they are simply waiting. Synthetics can still be built, and they will be. Everything you have fought for is for nothing. You have become the enemy.

Synthesis - Supposedly the "best" ending. Except, you have just turned all life into Reaper form. You have become a mirror image of Saren, who preached the merits of such an end in Mass Effect 1. Without consulting anyone, you have just fundamentally altered the entire universe. There is no guarantee of peace, since pure synthetics can still be built. Again, you have fought for nothing. You have capitualted.

None of these is promising. Not to me, at least. The information here is subjective to some extent, but not terribly farfetched. I didn't feel any shred of pride after finishing this story.

I had those same thoughts.  To clarify, I think the writers meant for the ending to be a victory as in the reapers are no longer a threat, but it's more complicated than that for the reasons you pointed out and I just didn't feel as though there was a winner. 

Perhaps that's the point though. There are major sacrifices that have to be made in order to rid the galaxy of the reaper threat.  But the way it was executed left me feeling too confused with too many questions to make those sacrifices seem justifiable and worthy of such a decision that is presented at the end.  We are in agreement.

[The Razman]

Master Che wrote...

The notion of a "happy ending" violates some peoples' individual "canons". Or they listen to the Cure waaaaaaaaaaaay too much.

This series is based on choice. Having a predetermined outcome violates the very thing that underpins what makes the games so awesome.

And also immediately makes everything pointless. If you lock yourself into a mindset that "the series is based on choice, so there must always be an option to win in any situation" ... then there's no threat. You become tantamount to a God, able to get out or simply kick butt out of any situation.

Not having choice in the end isn't "violating the premise of the series". It's exactly what the series is about. The fact that you've had choice throughout the game underlines just how powerful the Reapers are ... that to beat them, you simply don't have options. You have to be prepared to give everything up, or not bother trying.

[The Razman]

Rache123 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

ME3 had a real underdog theme to it... a happy ending would remove that.

It could be said that 1 & 2 had that, too. Just because this is part 3 doesn't mean everything should totally go to s***. How does it hurt you if others have the option to get what they want, too?

Agreed, we're just asking for the CHOICE of a happy ending, not ramming it down everyone's throats!

I'm afraid that simply wouldn't work. A happy ending and an unhappy ending can't co-exist and maintain the impact of the unhappy ending.

[Iakus]

The Razman wrote...

I'm afraid that simply wouldn't work. A happy ending and an unhappy ending can't co-exist and maintain the impact of the unhappy ending.

Which DAO endings are happy, and which are unhappy?

[Nicky 192]

The Razman wrote...

Rache123 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

ME3 had a real underdog theme to it... a happy ending would remove that.

It could be said that 1 & 2 had that, too. Just because this is part 3 doesn't mean everything should totally go to s***. How does it hurt you if others have the option to get what they want, too?

Agreed, we're just asking for the CHOICE of a happy ending, not ramming it down everyone's throats!

I'm afraid that simply wouldn't work. A happy ending and an unhappy ending can't co-exist and maintain the impact of the unhappy ending.

I respectfully disagree Dragon Age Origins did it very well and made the game a lot more replayable.

[The Razman]

Find a single article written in the last 3 years which mentions the ending of Dragon Age: Origins having any emotional impact at all, and you can cite Dragon Age: Origins as having a successful ending. People who found the ending particularly sad are in the minority view.

Just check out the forums post-release ... beauty of BSN, the posts are all still there probably.

[JBONE27]

The Razman wrote...

Rache123 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

ME3 had a real underdog theme to it... a happy ending would remove that.

It could be said that 1 & 2 had that, too. Just because this is part 3 doesn't mean everything should totally go to s***. How does it hurt you if others have the option to get what they want, too?

Agreed, we're just asking for the CHOICE of a happy ending, not ramming it down everyone's throats!

I'm afraid that simply wouldn't work. A happy ending and an unhappy ending can't co-exist and maintain the impact of the unhappy ending.

So your whole premis is that no one should get a happy ending because no one should be able to beat the game?  Ow, my head hurts from the lack of logic.

Let's take ME2 for example.  I personally felt more satisfied killing Jacob off than I did with 100 percent survival.  In ME3, I would feel more accomplished if Allers took a blast right to the face for me.

[The Razman]

JBONE27 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Rache123 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

ME3 had a real underdog theme to it... a happy ending would remove that.

It could be said that 1 & 2 had that, too. Just because this is part 3 doesn't mean everything should totally go to s***. How does it hurt you if others have the option to get what they want, too?

Agreed, we're just asking for the CHOICE of a happy ending, not ramming it down everyone's throats!

I'm afraid that simply wouldn't work. A happy ending and an unhappy ending can't co-exist and maintain the impact of the unhappy ending.

So your whole premis is that no one should get a happy ending because no one should be able to beat the game?  Ow, my head hurts from the lack of logic.

Let's take ME2 for example.  I personally felt more satisfied killing Jacob off than I did with 100 percent survival.  In ME3, I would feel more accomplished if Allers took a blast right to the face for me.

In the business, we call that a straw man fallacy. No, that's not what I said.

I said that the emotional impact of any negative emotion such as sadness, pain and loss is immediately robbed of all power it has over you if you know you can simply flick a switch and take them away by choosing an alternate ending where everything ends much better for you. It's like love. Would love be such a powerful emotion if we had the choice to turn it off?

[Blackmind1]

 A happy ending for Shepard is not realistic at all. You need to accept at least a little tragedy in your entertainment.

Either way, I'm not bothered, as long as I get the choice to not have one.

[Random citizen]

The Razman wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Rache123 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

ME3 had a real underdog theme to it... a happy ending would remove that.

It could be said that 1 & 2 had that, too. Just because this is part 3 doesn't mean everything should totally go to s***. How does it hurt you if others have the option to get what they want, too?

Agreed, we're just asking for the CHOICE of a happy ending, not ramming it down everyone's throats!

I'm afraid that simply wouldn't work. A happy ending and an unhappy ending can't co-exist and maintain the impact of the unhappy ending.

So your whole premis is that no one should get a happy ending because no one should be able to beat the game?  Ow, my head hurts from the lack of logic.

Let's take ME2 for example.  I personally felt more satisfied killing Jacob off than I did with 100 percent survival.  In ME3, I would feel more accomplished if Allers took a blast right to the face for me.

In the business, we call that a straw man fallacy. No, that's not what I said.

I said that the emotional impact of any negative emotion such as sadness, pain and loss is immediately robbed of all power it has over you if you know you can simply flick a switch and take them away by choosing an alternate ending where everything ends much better for you. It's like love. Would love be such a powerful emotion if we had the choice to turn it off?

Sounds good to me. Why would you assume people would want or need to feel more sadness, pain and loss then necessary? There still is lots of that stuff in the game before the ending.
But I think it is a good idea that the longer you take building forces, the more people dies on Earth and the other world occupied by the reaper forces. Multiplayer could help somewhat.

[JBONE27]

The Razman wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Rache123 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

ME3 had a real underdog theme to it... a happy ending would remove that.

It could be said that 1 & 2 had that, too. Just because this is part 3 doesn't mean everything should totally go to s***. How does it hurt you if others have the option to get what they want, too?

Agreed, we're just asking for the CHOICE of a happy ending, not ramming it down everyone's throats!

I'm afraid that simply wouldn't work. A happy ending and an unhappy ending can't co-exist and maintain the impact of the unhappy ending.

So your whole premis is that no one should get a happy ending because no one should be able to beat the game?  Ow, my head hurts from the lack of logic.

Let's take ME2 for example.  I personally felt more satisfied killing Jacob off than I did with 100 percent survival.  In ME3, I would feel more accomplished if Allers took a blast right to the face for me.

In the business, we call that a straw man fallacy. No, that's not what I said.

I said that the emotional impact of any negative emotion such as sadness, pain and loss is immediately robbed of all power it has over you if you know you can simply flick a switch and take them away by choosing an alternate ending where everything ends much better for you. It's like love. Would love be such a powerful emotion if we had the choice to turn it off?

It's not flicking a switch.  It's being a completitionist, and making the right choices.  For example, if Romeo had chosen to tell Juliette's parents that he was in love with her, they would have actually been okay with the marriage.  How do I know this?  At one point they remark on the fact that Romeo is a kind and noble boy, and how his family would be so much better if they were all like him.  Or Othello, if Othello had been thorough in his "investigation" of his wife's supposed infidelity, then he would have discovered that Iago was a liar.  Or if Oedopus's parents had decided to completely disregard the orical, they would have had a happy royal family life.  If the Onceler had decided to only harvest the tufts of the truffelup trees, then all the brown barbalutes would have remained in the forest playing in their barbalute suits.

The saddest thing about tradgedy is that if one tiny choice was made differently, the tradgedy could have completely been avoided.  Since the war with the reapers is unavoidable regardless of what anyone does, then the success or failure must be due to a choice made in game.

[The Razman]

Sounds good to me. Why would you assume people would want or need to feel more sadness, pain and loss then necessary? There still is lots of that stuff in the game before the ending.

Whether or not you want to feel these emotions isn't the point. It's the emotions the writers are attempting to instil. That's their job, to make us feel emotions.

[JBONE27]

The Razman wrote...

Sounds good to me. Why would you assume people would want or need to feel more sadness, pain and loss then necessary? There still is lots of that stuff in the game before the ending.

Whether or not you want to feel these emotions isn't the point. It's the emotions the writers are attempting to instil. That's their job, to make us feel emotions.

And (outside of the ending) they did a great job of instilling a lot of emotions.  I cried at certain points.  I laughed so hard I nearly vomited at others.  I got incredibly turned on at one point.  Who are you to say which emotion they were going for, for the ending, and therefore the enitre game?

In point of fact, Casey Hudson I believe, though I could be wrong, wanted a hopeful ending.  How is a happy ending, where Shepard and his/her crew are off to either help rebuild the galaxy or retire not hopeful?

Modifié par JBONE27, 30 mars 2012 - 10:27 .

[The Razman]

JBONE27 wrote...

It's not flicking a switch.  It's being a completitionist, and making the right choices.  For example, if Romeo had chosen to tell Juliette's parents that he was in love with her, they would have actually been okay with the marriage.  How do I know this?  At one point they remark on the fact that Romeo is a kind and noble boy, and how his family would be so much better if they were all like him.  Or Othello, if Othello had been thorough in his "investigation" of his wife's supposed infidelity, then he would have discovered that Iago was a liar.  Or if Oedopus's parents had decided to completely disregard the orical, they would have had a happy royal family life.  If the Onceler had decided to only harvest the tufts of the truffelup trees, then all the brown barbalutes would have remained in the forest playing in their barbalute suits.

The saddest thing about tradgedy is that if one tiny choice was made differently, the tradgedy could have completely been avoided.  Since the war with the reapers is unavoidable regardless of what anyone does, then the success or failure must be due to a choice made in game.

You seem to be arguing against your intention? If the point of good tragedy is that if a tiny choice was made differently, it could've been averted ... then the emotional impact of that tragedy is completely disintegrated by having that alternative actually be playable with as much canonicity as the tragic option.

It would be like if there was a choice to prevent Eli Vance from dying at the end of Half Life 2: Episode 2 if you played really well. The impact of that moment would be completely lost.

[Iakus]

Blackmind1 wrote...

 A happy ending for Shepard is not realistic at all. You need to accept at least a little tragedy in your entertainment.

Either way, I'm not bothered, as long as I get the choice to not have one.

Again, though, what endings in DAO ae "good" and which are "bad"

My human noble put Alistair on the throne without Anora, executed Loghain, romanced Leliana, but went through with the Dark Ritual.  Happy or unhappy?

My elven mage arranged a marriage betwen Alistair and Anora, made Loghain a Grey Warden (damaging his friendship with Alistair) romanced Morrigan, did not do the Dark Ritual, and let Loghain redeem himself by killing the archdemon.  Happy or unhappy?

My dalish rogue put Anora on the throne convincing Alistar to renounce his claims, executed Loghain, romanced both Morrigan and Leliana, did not do the Dark Ritual, and let Alistair slay the archdemon.  Happy or unhappy?

I have a dwarven noble in the works who will do the Ultimate Sacrifice ending.  haven't decided what else will go into it, save Alistair will probably be king.  WIll that be a happy or unhappy ending?

Happy endings are what people say are happy endings.  People want to choose which endings will satisfy them.  What sacrifices we are willing to make.  The ones we got in ME3 do not allow that.

I don't want the game to tell me to "shut up and eat my vegetables"  I want the game to say "You can have this, but it'll cost you"

[JBONE27]

The Razman wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

It's not flicking a switch.  It's being a completitionist, and making the right choices.  For example, if Romeo had chosen to tell Juliette's parents that he was in love with her, they would have actually been okay with the marriage.  How do I know this?  At one point they remark on the fact that Romeo is a kind and noble boy, and how his family would be so much better if they were all like him.  Or Othello, if Othello had been thorough in his "investigation" of his wife's supposed infidelity, then he would have discovered that Iago was a liar.  Or if Oedopus's parents had decided to completely disregard the orical, they would have had a happy royal family life.  If the Onceler had decided to only harvest the tufts of the truffelup trees, then all the brown barbalutes would have remained in the forest playing in their barbalute suits.

The saddest thing about tradgedy is that if one tiny choice was made differently, the tradgedy could have completely been avoided.  Since the war with the reapers is unavoidable regardless of what anyone does, then the success or failure must be due to a choice made in game.

You seem to be arguing against your intention? If the point of good tragedy is that if a tiny choice was made differently, it could've been averted ... then the emotional impact of that tragedy is completely disintegrated by having that alternative actually be playable with as much canonicity as the tragic option.

It would be like if there was a choice to prevent Eli Vance from dying at the end of Half Life 2: Episode 2 if you played really well. The impact of that moment would be completely lost.

I'm saying that not everyone (including some of the writers) wants Mass Effect to be a tradgedy, and you seem to be forgeting that it is a GAME.  People don't play games to watch everything they played for end.  Why don't you want to give the people who want a triuphant space opera, a triuphrant space opera, if again, some of the writers wanted it that way?

[arial]

reason alot of us don't want a happy ending is that this is a war. wars end in Sacrifice, and Shepard is the perfect example for this.

not to mention those of us who are parents have another reason, CBC news had a story a few months ago about more and more students are enlisting in the military after High School, and it is believed that its because games nowadays "Beautify" war, and often show a happy ending.

war never ends like that, war always ends with death and sacrifice, and the gaming industry has to start showing this.

[Heather Cline]

I've posted this elsewhere but I'll state it here. I want a happy ending. It isn't all sunshine and rainbows and all those who think that is what those of us who want a happy ending want you are dead wrong.

The kind of happy ending we want is our Shepard ending up with her/his LI in the end and possibly with the crew of the Normandy as well alive.

It doesn't mean that it's all sunshine and rainbows and everyone is singing and dancing. The earth has been ravaged, people have died. There will be a long rebuilding period but there is hope and Shepard gets to be with her/his LI and look to the future whatever that may be.

That is what I want and I don't think that this kind of happy ending is so bad.

[The Razman]

JBONE27 wrote...

And (outside of the ending) they did a great job of instilling a lot of emotions.  I cried at certain points.  I laughed so hard I nearly vomited at others.  I got incredibly turned on at one point.  Who are you to say which emotion they were going for, for the ending, and therefore the enitre game?

In point of fact, Casey Hudson I believe, though I could be wrong, wanted a hopeful ending.  How is a happy ending, where Shepard and his/her crew are off to either help rebuild the galaxy or retire not hopeful?

I'm not saying what emotions they were going for, specifically. I'm saying that changing the ending to make it into a happy one would quite obviously result in a different emotional impact to whichever one they originally intended. You can't slap a generic emotional adjective with your own interpretation (such as "hopeful") onto two very different endings and say they perform the same, emotionally. If that's not the emotion they're trying to create, that's not the emotion they're trying to create.

And you can't go around telling them to write an ending which makes you feel differently just because you'd prefer it that way.

[Wiggs Magee]

I don't see the problem with ONE of the endings being hopeful, that way everyone can be happy. People who want a more darker ending can achieve that while people who wish to see Shepard & Co reunited can also get that.

[JBONE27]

arial wrote...

reason alot of us don't want a happy ending is that this is a war. wars end in Sacrifice, and Shepard is the perfect example for this.

not to mention those of us who are parents have another reason, CBC news had a story a few months ago about more and more students are enlisting in the military after High School, and it is believed that its because games nowadays "Beautify" war, and often show a happy ending.

war never ends like that, war always ends with death and sacrifice, and the gaming industry has to start showing this.

Apparently you missed the part where this game was rated MA, as in mature audience only, and those children who are gullible enough to think of war as something romantic because they play video games should have better parents who will teach them how to be skeptical.

[JBONE27]

The Razman wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

And (outside of the ending) they did a great job of instilling a lot of emotions.  I cried at certain points.  I laughed so hard I nearly vomited at others.  I got incredibly turned on at one point.  Who are you to say which emotion they were going for, for the ending, and therefore the enitre game?

In point of fact, Casey Hudson I believe, though I could be wrong, wanted a hopeful ending.  How is a happy ending, where Shepard and his/her crew are off to either help rebuild the galaxy or retire not hopeful?

I'm not saying what emotions they were going for, specifically. I'm saying that changing the ending to make it into a happy one would quite obviously result in a different emotional impact to whichever one they originally intended. You can't slap a generic emotional adjective with your own interpretation (such as "hopeful") onto two very different endings and say they perform the same, emotionally. If that's not the emotion they're trying to create, that's not the emotion they're trying to create.

And you can't go around telling them to write an ending which makes you feel differently just because you'd prefer it that way.

Again, this is a game built around CHOICE.  Have you ever read a choose your own adventure story?  Most of the time you make a poor decision and die.  Sometimes you make the right one and live happily ever after.  It's not about changing the ending to change the way it makes me feel, it's about changing the ending to incorperate the big choices promised by the current game and its other installments.

[arial]

JBONE27 wrote...

arial wrote...

reason alot of us don't want a happy ending is that this is a war. wars end in Sacrifice, and Shepard is the perfect example for this.

not to mention those of us who are parents have another reason, CBC news had a story a few months ago about more and more students are enlisting in the military after High School, and it is believed that its because games nowadays "Beautify" war, and often show a happy ending.

war never ends like that, war always ends with death and sacrifice, and the gaming industry has to start showing this.

Apparently you missed the part where this game was rated MA, as in mature audience only, and those children who are gullible enough to think of war as something romantic because they play video games should have better parents who will teach them how to be skeptical.

it does not matter the rating, parents will still by there kids games inapropriate for there ages, the gaming industry needs to realize this and show what war is actually like, full of tears, gief, and sacrifice. and ME3 has done a great job showing this