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[ChickenDownUnder]

I don't ever remember there being a topic about this, and its been something, allbeit very small thing, that has been bugging me in this game.

If you play a city elf, or any kind of male elf that goes through the Dark Ritual with Morrigan, you learn that sex and pregnancy between the two races does happen. So chances are there should be at least 1-2 likely very reviled half-elves running around with some very shunned parents, but I've never come across anything in the codex addressing this.

Does it get addressed in this game? Has anyone else wondered about this?

Modifié par ChickenDownUnder, 02 décembre 2009 - 08:51 .

[Hizuka]

It's explained in The Calling that the child of a human and an elf is always a human.

[EvilDeity]

Hizuka wrote...

It's explained in The Calling that the child of a human and an elf is always a human.

That makes no sense at all. They might look human but I very much doubt they are actually human. But I suppose nobody's going to be sending their DNA off for testing are they.

Modifié par EvilDeity, 02 décembre 2009 - 05:11 .

[ChickenDownUnder]

Hizuka wrote...

It's explained in The Calling that the child of a human and an elf is always a human.

So it IS something that never actually gets brought up in the game. Odd, and a pity.

The child always being considered human makes no sense whatsoever.

[The Angry One]

I'm not getting into an argument over DNA and recessive genes and whatever as people always believe what they want.



I will however say that considering the fact that interbreeding would appear to be a regular thing in spite of the elves' attempts to isolate themselves (Vaughan for example doesn't give a toss) there should be many, many "human" elves living in Alienages right now.



Yes, yes. Many would be aborted and given away or passed off as human. Surely. But that'd be many. Not *all* of them, and over so many centuries enough would stay on to make a sizable portion of these slums "human".



But then I'm sure a wizard did it.

[Hizuka]

EvilDeity wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

It's explained in The Calling that the child of a human and an elf is always a human.

That makes no sense at all. They might look human but I very much doubt they are actually human. But I suppose nobody's going to be sending their DNA off for testing are they.

Hey, i didn't write the book, so don't yell at me.  Gaider may have been influenced by Kurtz's Deryni, where being Deryni is caused entirely by the presence or absense of a single gene, thus not allowing for half-Deryni.  The same might be possible here, who knows.

Oh, and Angry One - the elf who explains it in The Calling says that that's why the elves stick to themselves in Alienages - so they don't get bred out of existance.  If you want to argue the point, write David Gaider; it's his book.

Modifié par Hizuka, 02 décembre 2009 - 05:25 .

[Taleroth]

If it's built like a duck, looks like a duck, and breeds like a duck. I'm not sure it matters that it's mother was a swan.

[ToJKa1]

It's the easy way out, like in TES it is stated that in case of cross-breeding, the child will be the race of the mother.

[Curlain]

A fact I didn't pick up on my Dalish origin but actually got through my human origin playthrough in the Dalish camp is that by seperating themselves as much as possibly from humans the Dalish have began to gain a longer lifespan again. So there is something to this presence of humns actually having some definite effect in quickening the elven race, and if that is so, I can see why a child actually born of such a union would be essentially human

[The Angry One]

Hizuka wrote...

Oh, and Angry One - the elf who explains it in The Calling says that that's why the elves stick to themselves in Alienages - so they don't get bred out of existance.

And yet when you have humans barging in and raping with impunity, this isn't going to be terribly feasable, is it?

If you want to argue the point, write David Gaider; it's his book.

David Gaider, despite the apparent views of some fanboys here, is not a god, and his books are not gospel.
The idea is inconsistant and illogical, and made up entirely to shoehorn Alistair into a specific origin.
To be brutally frank, subverting your own lore to squeeze in a particular plot point you decided later on is extremely lazy writing and something which, thankfully, I don't have to deal with in-game.

[The Angry One]

Curlain wrote...

A fact I didn't pick up on my Dalish origin but actually got through my human origin playthrough in the Dalish camp is that by seperating themselves as much as possibly from humans the Dalish have began to gain a longer lifespan again. So there is something to this presence of humns actually having some definite effect in quickening the elven race, and if that is so, I can see why a child actually born of such a union would be essentially human

That's what they think, but only Zathrian has achieved this, and only by other means.
It's essentially a lie.

[Taleroth]

The Angry One wrote...

The idea is inconsistant and illogical

It's inconsistent?  So you're saying that there are instances of Half-Elves?

[The Angry One]

Taleroth wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The idea is inconsistant and illogical

It's inconsistent?  So you're saying that there are instances of Half-Elves?

It's inconsistant in that if half-elves were human, then we would see some "humans" in alienages by now.
I'm sorry but no attempt at isolationism will survive constant human intervention like that if all half-elves had NO elven features.

[DM Veil]

It makes perfect sense that the child of a human and an elf is always human because this is a fantasy setting and the rules that apply to real life are different than the ones that apply to Dragon Age.

[Taleroth]

The Angry One wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The idea is inconsistant and illogical

It's inconsistent?  So you're saying that there are instances of Half-Elves?

It's inconsistant in that if half-elves were human, then we would see some "humans" in alienages by now.
I'm sorry but no attempt at isolationism will survive constant human intervention like that if all half-elves had NO elven features.

That's hardly an issue of consistency.  That's an issue of detail.  They simply don't address it.  We see maybe 2 dozen Elves in the Alienage total, I'd hardly say we're getting a representative sample.  And that's ignoring other potential factors, like Half-Elf "humans" leaving the Alienages the first chance they get.

[The Angry One]

No, it's an issue of consistancy since elves isolating themselves and the constant schism between elves and humans is made a big deal of in the game.

Moreover humans are highly racist against elves and highly prejidicial of bastards, yet nobody ever says "hey I bet that bastard is the son of an elf!" or somesuch.

[ChickenDownUnder]

Even if by some odd genetic quirk the child was always considered human, going by other lore in the game there'd still be a definite underclass of the "nasty unpure humans of a knife ear parent". But there isn't, it it as if they all went poof!

Modifié par ChickenDownUnder, 02 décembre 2009 - 05:39 .

[The Angry One]

ChickenDownUnder wrote...

Even if by some odd genetic quirk the child was always considered human, going by other lore in the game there'd still be a definite underclass of the "nasty unpure humans of a knife ear parent". But there isn't, it it as if they all went poof!

Exactly my point. Whether true or not there'd be a definite underclass of people thought to be half-elves, or at least accusations of such. Including, ironically enough, Alistair himself.
Everybody knows he's a bastard, and people have looked down on him for it all his life, but no one has ever, EVER thought he might be a half-elf, even though according to Gaider's book, HE IS?

[Taleroth]

The Angry One wrote...

No, it's an issue of consistancy since elves isolating themselves and the constant schism between elves and humans is made a big deal of in the game.

Which could be considered even more reasons for Half-Elves to distance themselves from Elves, to avoid that.

Moreover humans are highly racist against elves and highly prejidicial of bastards, yet nobody ever says "hey I bet that bastard is the son of an elf!" or somesuch.

  The player interacts with a minimal number of overt racists in the game.  Even playing as an Elf, you see very little of it outside of your origin.

The Angry One wrote...

ChickenDownUnder wrote...

Even if by some odd genetic quirk the child was always considered human, going by other lore in the game there'd still be a definite underclass of the "nasty unpure humans of a knife ear parent". But there isn't, it it as if they all went poof!

Exactly my point. Whether true or not there'd be a definite underclass of people thought to be half-elves, or at least accusations of such. Including, ironically enough, Alistair himself.
Everybody knows he's a bastard, and people have looked down on him for it all his life, but no one has ever, EVER thought he might be a half-elf, even though according to Gaider's book, HE IS?

Who says they haven't?  Who do you expect to slander him like that that you encounter in the game?  Eamon?  Lelianna?  Is it Kolgrim?  It's Kolgrim you were expecting it from, right?

Modifié par Taleroth, 02 décembre 2009 - 05:44 .

[Curlain]

The Angry One wrote...

Curlain wrote...

A fact I didn't pick up on my Dalish origin but actually got through my human origin playthrough in the Dalish camp is that by seperating themselves as much as possibly from humans the Dalish have began to gain a longer lifespan again. So there is something to this presence of humns actually having some definite effect in quickening the elven race, and if that is so, I can see why a child actually born of such a union would be essentially human

That's what they think, but only Zathrian has achieved this, and only by other means.
It's essentially a lie.

No I'm not talking about Zathrian, his first (forget her name) actual says that the Dalish have began to have longer lives since seperating from humans but then says but none of them have lived nearly as long as Zathrian who is unique so far (as we find out later why that is)

But she did state to my human noble that the Dalish elves have now longer lives in comparision to humans when I asked about elves isolating themselves and if they had recovered anything of their former lives (or some such) so it does seem to have some effect.  Whether it will eventually allow them to get immortiality back who knows, but their lifespans do seem to have began to get longer once more

[Suron]

The Angry One wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

Oh, and Angry One - the elf who explains it in The Calling says that that's why the elves stick to themselves in Alienages - so they don't get bred out of existance.

And yet when you have humans barging in and raping with impunity, this isn't going to be terribly feasable, is it?

If you want to argue the point, write David Gaider; it's his book.

David Gaider, despite the apparent views of some fanboys here, is not a god, and his books are not gospel.
The idea is inconsistant and illogical, and made up entirely to shoehorn Alistair into a specific origin.
To be brutally frank, subverting your own lore to squeeze in a particular plot point you decided later on is extremely lazy writing and something which, thankfully, I don't have to deal with in-game.

illogical? how? becuase you're trying to use real-world science on a fantasy realm.

if they said in DA:O that all human/elf conceptions ended up with a flying purple monkey beast flying out of the womans left nostril then that's what it is.

the only thing "illogical" is how poeple want to argue that real-world science should work on MADE UP RACES...

in DA:O ALL human/elf pregnancies end with a human child.  Don't like it? tough.  Want to argue it? don't be stupid..it's not your world or lore.  

/thread

Modifié par Suron, 02 décembre 2009 - 05:47 .

[Hizuka]

The Angry One wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

Oh, and Angry One - the elf who explains it in The Calling says that that's why the elves stick to themselves in Alienages - so they don't get bred out of existance.

And yet when you have humans barging in and raping with impunity, this isn't going to be terribly feasable, is it?

If you want to argue the point, write David Gaider; it's his book.

David Gaider, despite the apparent views of some fanboys here, is not a god, and his books are not gospel.
The idea is inconsistant and illogical, and made up entirely to shoehorn Alistair into a specific origin.
To be brutally frank, subverting your own lore to squeeze in a particular plot point you decided later on is extremely lazy writing and something which, thankfully, I don't have to deal with in-game.

He's the head of the project, and he's the one writing the tales and setting the world in place.  His story; his books.  Saying that his word about his world is not gospel is like saying that JK Rowling is wrong about Dubmledore being gay or that Tolkein was wrong in thinking Frodo wanted peace and quiet.

Fact of the matter is that the writer's word IS gospel.

[The Angry One]

Taleroth wrote...

Which could be considered even more reasons for Half-Elves to distance themselves from Elves, to avoid that.

Yes, it would.
That is however, rarely possible. Some might escape it, not all would.

The player interacts with a minimal number of overt racists in the game.  Even playing as an Elf, you see very little of it outside of your origin.

There is enough to at least give us a hint of the "human" half-elf situation, if there really was one.

Who says they haven't?  Who do you expect to slander him like that that you encounter in the game?  Eamon?  Lelianna?  Is it Kolgrim?  It's Kolgrim you were expecting it from, right?

I'd expect it to have happened as Alistair was growing up.
In other words, I'd expect Alistair to tell me. I can't believe I have to explain this; Alistair tells you everything about his early life, about the pains and prejudices he experienced, particularily how the other templar recruits looked down on him as a noble bastard... yet not one of them ever called him the son of a knife-ear, just to rile him up? Really?

[Suron]

Hizuka wrote...

He's the head of the project, and he's the one writing the tales and setting the world in place.  His story; his books.  Saying that his word about his world is not gospel is like saying that JK Rowling is wrong about Dubmledore being gay or that Tolkein was wrong in thinking Frodo wanted peace and quiet.

Fact of the matter is that the writer's word IS gospel.

exactly my point..arguing about this is idiotic.  It's Gaiders world.  his word IS IN FACT gospel.

or like I said above.

don't like? tough.  make up your own world with it's own lore.

[Nosuchluck]

I think people secretly want to be half dragons.