164 réponses à ce sujet

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Blah blah, lack of half elves don't bother me. There's very little difference between an elf and a human anyway, and it's not like you could tell an elf from a human if you cut off their ears. At most you've got someone who's slightly thinner, but they're still well within the variance of human phenotypes. Without an understanding of genetics, there's little anyone could do to prove that say, Alistair, is the son of an elf **** if they didn't know the parents. Basically, we wouldn't see much racism against "half-breed" humans because it'd be functionally impossible to tell them apart from normal humans. It's not like we saw enough of the alienage to see how they treat these hypothetical hybrids.



Though... Now that I think about it, don't all children in this game, even Amarthine or whoever Iona's kid was, have round human ears? With the ghosts in the alienage having round ears as well? Oversight or intentional decision?

[The Angry One]

Taleroth wrote...

 I think Force Field countering Crushing Prison is a good thing.  I think the fade being bland sepia filter is a bad thing.  I think moving on with my life after finding out the official explanation for Half-Elves to be somewhere in between.

If Gaider said the Joining ritual is really performed by drinking a mixture of week old Dr. Pepper and Ogre spittle, would you accept that too? It would be as "official".
... why am I asking, of course you would.

I don't think the game needs more Alistair/Elf dynamic.  We got enough.  I don't think "we're supposed" to do anything about it.

Yeah I mean who'd ever want to see Alistair's reactions to his real mother and that he's a half-elf and that he's basically been lied too all his life? Nevermind that crap, we've got more of Morrigan's views on the inferiority of anyone not named Morrigan to hear!

Fine, it didn't happen.  Can you rest easy, now?  I hope you don't lose anymore sleep wondering where the Half-Elves are.

Hey that's super.
I still get to say it's a moronic idea in the way that it's (not) implemented though.

Modifié par The Angry One, 02 décembre 2009 - 06:19 .

[Curlain]

The child of that elf family that was robbed in Lothering had pointed elf ears, not sure about the other elven kids

[Taleroth]

The Angry One wrote...

If Gaider said the Joining ritual is really performed by drinking a mixture of week old Dr. Pepper and Ogre spittle, would you accept that too? It would be as "official".
... why am I asking, of course you would.

I don't see why I wouldn't.  But I would ask where the fresh Dr. Pepper is.  If someone told me it was hiding, I'd be like "dang."

Yeah I mean who'd ever want to see Alistair's reactions to his real mother and that he's a half-elf and that he's basically been lied too all his life?

This game needs more daytime soap drama, obviously.  And besides, what if the revelation turned him into Carth?  Or Kaiden?  Would you really want that?

Hey that's super.
I still get to say it's a moronic idea in the way that it's (not) implemented though.

I'd be more concerned about the lack of implementation of Gryphons.  And Capes.  And Horses.  And Barbarians.

Modifié par Taleroth, 02 décembre 2009 - 06:24 .

[tmp7704]

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah I mean who'd ever want to see Alistair's reactions to his real mother and that he's a half-elf and that he's basically been lied too all his life?

The man already whines all the way across Ferelden, you really want to give him yet another thing to cry about? It'd be funnier if Morrigan's father turned out to be bewitched Dalish elf or something, tbh.

edit: on second thought her father being possibly the same guy who sired Alistair is still more funny, though.

Modifié par tmp7704, 02 décembre 2009 - 06:25 .

[syllogi]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...
Though... Now that I think about it, don't all children in this game, even Amarthine or whoever Iona's kid was, have round human ears? With the ghosts in the alienage having round ears as well? Oversight or intentional decision?

No, look again, elven children in the game definitely have knife ears. 

As for Alistair, I pretty much accept that either he IS Fiona's child, but his origin has been retconned in the Calling, or he isn't and there's another Theirin heir out there waiting for a sequel or expansion.  Either way it doesn't bother me.  The fact that there are no half elves can easily be explained by the same phenomenon that made elves lose their immortality by interaction with humans.  A wizard did it.  And that's the way it is, unless Mr. Gaider moves on to another project and another lead writer comes onboard to change the rules of the world.

Those who are bothered by this should never read comic books, you'd experience the same kind of agita on a much more frequent basis.

[The Angry One]

Oh yes of course I forgot, the Alistair sucks brigade. Rah.

[Dark83]

The Codex mentions this somewhere, about the elves' genetic adaptability.

[Red Viking]

The Angry One wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Except it's still not an issue of consistency.  You'd like it to meet your expectations, when it instead ignores the topic altogether.

And you think ignoring it is a good thing?

It's obviously not a big deal in the game either way, so why not take the explanation and call it a day?  It's a completely unimportant detail.

How is Alistair's true heritage not a big deal? It could add a whole new dynamic to the elves and to Alistair, but instead is ignored while we're supposed to find out in a supplimentary book? Baloney.
Either show us how half-elves are "human" and the consequences of that, or it didn't happen. I will not accept it as so because the writer says it is and fill in the blanks for him.

SPOILERS:

Guys, Alistair isn't Maric and Fiona's kid.  Alistair isn't  a "half-elf".  His mother was a human. 

Modifié par Red Viking, 02 décembre 2009 - 06:28 .

[Bibdy]

I think its funny that the definition of a human and elf breeding resulting in a kind of sub-human/sub-elf monstrosity is canon. Like I could literally go off and have a threesome with a pig and a bear and make Manbearpig. You don't know how the biology interacts. Sure its an 'easy way out', but there isn't some clear cut rule that 2 humanoid species mating results in a cross-breed of the two, is there?

[XOGHunter246]

can tell one has pointy ears

[Taleroth]

The Angry One wrote...

Oh yes of course I forgot, the Alistair sucks brigade. Rah.

He's awesome, actually.  But only when he's funny.

I thought you were a bigger Teagan fan.

[Varenus Luckmann]

It's MAGIC!

[Myzzrimm]

That example doesn't quite work, Bibdy. In real life, breeding of the same species results in crossbreeds. Dogs for example. Mix a lab and a chow and you get a lab with a chow's hound. Thinking that an elf and a human makes a human with pointy ears makes perfect sense, being that the species is overly similar.



Furthermore, I have to take the side with The Angry One. It's just... inconsistent.

[The Angry One]

Red Viking wrote...

Guys, Alistair isn't Maric and Fiona's kid.  Alistair isn't  a "half-elf".  His mother was a human. 

Oh
come now, Gaider's going to make up this entire thing about half-elves
looking human, then have this elf have Maric's kid who "looks just like
Cailan" only to make it an entirely DIFFERENT royal bastard who looks
like Cailan?
Really?

Taleroth wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Oh yes of course I forgot, the Alistair sucks brigade. Rah.

He's awesome, actually.  But only when he's funny.

I thought you were a bigger Teagan fan.

My motto remains "there's room for two"

[RunCDFirst]

Seeing that dwarves, humans and elves can interbreed, they are (essentially) one species. That is, you know, the common definition of species.



I'm curious what makes an elf. Other than pointy ears and a penchant for poverty, could you truly tell the difference if they all stood in front of you with their ears covered? Perhaps the 'genes' for pointy ears is recessive, so whenever a human and an elf makes babies, they get the normal looking ears.



Genes don't work half and half. If I take a blonde and a red head and breed them together, we don't get a unique race of oranged hair folk.

[Taleroth]

They'll be a bit shorter and malnourished.

[Curlain]

TeenZombie wrote...

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...
Though... Now that I think about it, don't all children in this game, even Amarthine or whoever Iona's kid was, have round human ears? With the ghosts in the alienage having round ears as well? Oversight or intentional decision?

No, look again, elven children in the game definitely have knife ears. 

As for Alistair, I pretty much accept that either he IS Fiona's child, but his origin has been retconned in the Calling, or he isn't and there's another Theirin heir out there waiting for a sequel or expansion.  Either way it doesn't bother me.  The fact that there are no half elves can easily be explained by the same phenomenon that made elves lose their immortality by interaction with humans.  A wizard did it.  And that's the way it is, unless Mr. Gaider moves on to another project and another lead writer comes onboard to change the rules of the world.

Those who are bothered by this should never read comic books, you'd experience the same kind of agita on a much more frequent basis.

Yep recons are occupational hazards in the comic book world, everything is certain till the next issue comes out

[tmp7704]

Myzzrimm wrote...

Thinking that an elf and a human makes a human with pointy ears makes perfect sense, being that the species is overly similar.

Like pointed out, it's very possible human genes wind up dominant across the board thus essentially 'wiping' or "disabling" whatever traits it is that "make" the elf. Sort of like genes responsible for brown eyes in humans can potentially completely remove possibility of blue-eyed offsprings (http://www.athro.com/evo/inherit.html)

As i understand it in our own world cross-breeds resulting in what appears like a mix more often than not is byproduct of no one side having full set of dominant genes compared to the other parent. But unlikely as it is it can happen, especially in a made up fantasy world.

Modifié par tmp7704, 02 décembre 2009 - 06:45 .

[Red Viking]

The Angry One wrote...

Red Viking wrote...

Guys, Alistair isn't Maric and Fiona's kid.  Alistair isn't  a "half-elf".  His mother was a human. 

Oh
come now, Gaider's going to make up this entire thing about half-elves
looking human, then have this elf have Maric's kid who "looks just like
Cailan" only to make it an entirely DIFFERENT royal bastard who looks
like Cailan?
Really?

Yes, really.  To be honest, I thought Alistair was Fiona's kid as well, but something that huge would have been brought up in game if that were the case.  His sister has the same mother and she's human as well.  It was established in game that their mother died giving birth to Alistair, which is the entire reason his sister hates him.  Maric's already slept with Rowan, Katriel and Fiona.  Finding out that he slept with a servant girl isn't all that surprisng.

RunCDFirst wrote...

Seeing that dwarves, humans and elves
can interbreed, they are (essentially) one species. That is, you know,
the common definition of species.

Not...really.  Since they can all interbreed, they most likely all belong in the same Genus, but they're hardly the same species.

Modifié par Red Viking, 02 décembre 2009 - 06:52 .

[Taleroth]

Red Viking wrote...

Not...really.  Since they can all interbreed, they most likely all belong in the same Genus, but they're hardly the same species.

I'm not aware of any requirement of breeding being involved in Genus definition.  However, the ability to regularly produce fertile offspring can be part of the species definition.

[RunCDFirst]

Red Viking wrote...
Not...really.  Since they can all interbreed, they most likely all belong in the same Genus, but they're hardly the same species.

Well, I don't want to split hairs but... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

The simplest definition of species when discussing reproduction is two organisms that can produce a viable offspring. I suppose it's possible that all human-elf couplings produce sterile children... but I don't think you'll find any support for that in the lore.

[Red Viking]

Taleroth wrote...

Red Viking wrote...

Not...really.  Since they can all interbreed, they most likely all belong in the same Genus, but they're hardly the same species.

I'm not aware of any requirement of breeding being involved in Genus definition.  However, the ability to regularly produce fertile offspring can be part of the species definition.

I said "most likely" because lions and tigers can interbreed and they belong in the same Genus.  As do horses and donkeys.

You insinuated that humans, elves and dwarves were the same species, which isn't exactly true.  To be fair, however, I think he meant to say subspecies.

RunCDFirst wrote...

Well, I don't want to split hairs but... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

That article also mentions the "species problem" but, again, to be fair, if we're going to debate what exactly determines a species, we're going to be here all day.  I suppose we should just agree to disagree.

Modifié par Red Viking, 02 décembre 2009 - 07:02 .

[DarrenHollywood]

I've seen Angry One rant about this before, and I don't understand where this disbelief comes from.

Human + Elf = Human
This is in the game, and while I don't have the specific codex entry it is found in, I know it is.  I have not read any book, and I know it is true from either dialog (possibly with the Dalish), or codex entries (since I read almost everything I find).
To argue about how "stupid" it is that human and elf pairing create human's is silly.  We see these type of dominant/recesive gene pairings every single day.  The child of a black man and white woman is black.  Yes, there are times that the child is so light that it appears white, but that almost never matters when considering race.
Now let's think back to the times of American Slavery.  Imagine if the Whites were slaves, and the Blacks were the slave owners.  Imagine that no matter how "white" his children got, they would still be black.  They would not be considered slaves.
Apply that to Dragon Age.  If Humans are the dominant, then it doesn't matter how close a person looks to an Elf, they are a human. 

Humans in the Alienage
The Alienage is not a prison.  Elves can come and go freely.  Unfortunatly Elves are treated poorly in the rest of the city.  There is a family that talks of moving to the docks, only to have to return because of how they were stolen from, treated unequally, and couldn't find work.  (again imagine being a black person trying to live in the south, in an all white town, shortly after being given freedom.  You would find yourself murdered if not careful)
Humans that are born in the alienage do not face such oppresion when they venture out into the world.  They can save up to buy a house, find a job, and live a normal life without others knowing of their heritage. 


So in conclusion, none of this is hard to grasp.  The fact that you continue to rant and clutter up threads that once contained useful information is flat out annoying.  I hope you stop this.

Also, please read the information the game gives you before assuming everything and running off to these boards, because as far as I can tell both the book and the game's lore coinside.

[Kepha]

The Angry One wrote...


I'd expect it to have happened as Alistair was growing up.
In other words, I'd expect Alistair to tell me. I can't believe I have to explain this; Alistair tells you everything about his early life, about the pains and prejudices he experienced, particularily how the other templar recruits looked down on him as a noble bastard... yet not one of them ever called him the son of a knife-ear, just to rile him up? Really?

Given that if Alistair is Fiona's child the only three people that probably knew that were Duncun, Maric, and Fiona.  I don't think even Arl Eamon would have known he was the son of an elf, so why would it come up?