164 réponses à ce sujet

[Inakhia]

The Angry One wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Which could be considered even more reasons for Half-Elves to distance themselves from Elves, to avoid that.

Yes, it would.
That is however, rarely possible. Some might escape it, not all would.

The player interacts with a minimal number of overt racists in the game.  Even playing as an Elf, you see very little of it outside of your origin.

There is enough to at least give us a hint of the "human" half-elf situation, if there really was one.

Who says they haven't?  Who do you expect to slander him like that that you encounter in the game?  Eamon?  Lelianna?  Is it Kolgrim?  It's Kolgrim you were expecting it from, right?

I'd expect it to have happened as Alistair was growing up.
In other words, I'd expect Alistair to tell me. I can't believe I have to explain this; Alistair tells you everything about his early life, about the pains and prejudices he experienced, particularily how the other templar recruits looked down on him as a noble bastard... yet not one of them ever called him the son of a knife-ear, just to rile him up? Really

If one of them did, WHY oh Why oh Why would he even Care????
As far as he's concerned his mother was Human. So if someone called him a knife ear just to rile him up, he's not going to give it a second thought, any more than all the other names they called him. If fact Since Alistair *knows* its false he's going to give it *less* than a thought. Whether or not its actually true is irrelevant. As far as Alistair is concerned his mother was human, he's human and Maric is his father.
He's not going to give a rats arse what some annoying brat called him 15 odd years ago. Of course he's not going to tell you about something so utterly trivial he doesn't even remember it himself.

[TastyLaksa]

EvilDeity wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

It's explained in The Calling that the child of a human and an elf is always a human.

That makes no sense at all. They might look human but I very much doubt they are actually human. But I suppose nobody's going to be sending their DNA off for testing are they.

Elven genes are recessive I am thinking. Human genes dominant. So only an elf and an elf can beget an elf.

[twincast]

starwind99 wrote...

Hey perhaps the only real feature between elves and humans are the ears and the elven ear shape is a recessive trait and human ear a dominant trait. If you do not understand that recessive means it requires two genes that are the same to produce the trait and dominant only requires one to produce the trait. Example humans would carry the B,B, ear trait elves would carry the a,a, trait for ears a half elf would have B,a, ears. Now this begs the question if a half elf and an elf were to produce an offspring they would have a 50% chance that this offspring would have elven ears. With the half elf having B,a, ears and the elf having a,a, ears with the offspring getting one gene (at random) from each parent they could have either B,a, ears or a,a, ears.

Well, no, there's no way back. Their genes aren't just recessive, they're "adaptive".

Really, their intentions to give a scientific reason were all nice and swell, but it would have been easier, less dicussion-begetting and most importantly even more logical if they had just said it's magic.

Come to think about, I'll just consider "adaptive genes" a magical term from now on.

[Imryll]

RazorNightngale wrote...

Also if he was just switched with a random baby  at Redcliff, how would Goldanna have known that he was the king's baby?  Did they say "Oh, while we chuck your dead baby brother into the lake can you hold THE KING'S baby that we're going to say is actually your mom's kid.  Sorry that she died and everything."  

Why do you think Goldanna would have known that the baby her mother carried wasn't the king's? If the mother were unmarried, would she necessarily have known who the father of the new child was? She need never have known that a second baby was involved, at all. Certainly, she seemed to believe that Alastair was her brother when they met in Denerim.

I also can't imagine Duncan being party to unnecessary chucking of babies into lakes. We don't know whether that child would have been born alive or dead or whether an arrangement might not have been made with the mother before the birth of her child: Raise the king's bastard as your own, and your baby will be given opportunities it would never have had if you'd kept it.  When the mother died, the baby was likely given burial if it died also, or placed elsewhere as planned.

I'd need to check the timeline again, but fantasy heroes are frequently younger than seems likely, and Alastair didn't have time to take vows as a templar before Duncan recruited him, and had only been with the Wardens for about six months at the time of the story and certainly acts immaturely at times.

[RazorNightngale]

Imryll wrote...

RazorNightngale wrote...

Also if he was just switched with a random baby  at Redcliff, how would Goldanna have known that he was the king's baby?  Did they say "Oh, while we chuck your dead baby brother into the lake can you hold THE KING'S baby that we're going to say is actually your mom's kid.  Sorry that she died and everything."  

Why do you think Goldanna would have known that the baby her mother carried wasn't the king's? If the mother were unmarried, would she necessarily have known who the father of the new child was? She need never have known that a second baby was involved, at all. Certainly, she seemed to believe that Alastair was her brother when they met in Denerim.

I also can't imagine Duncan being party to unnecessary chucking of babies into lakes. We don't know whether that child would have been born alive or dead or whether an arrangement might not have been made with the mother before the birth of her child: Raise the king's bastard as your own, and your baby will be given opportunities it would never have had if you'd kept it.  When the mother died, the baby was likely given burial if it died also, or placed elsewhere as planned.

I'd need to check the timeline again, but fantasy heroes are frequently younger than seems likely, and Alastair didn't have time to take vows as a templar before Duncan recruited him, and had only been with the Wardens for about six months at the time of the story and certainly acts immaturely at times.

First off: Sarcasm.  I'm chuck full of it.  I do not actually believe that they threw the baby in the lake.  They actually probably actually fed it to the cat (hint: that is more sarcasm)

Secondly:  Why would she think it WAS the king's baby unless it actually was?  Unless Maric was the father wouldn't it make more sense for her to think that it was someone who lived in the castle?  If she was just throwing out accusations to make money, she probably would have blamed Eamon or Teagan since they were around um, everyday. 

And doesn't having her known that Alistair is her brother support my point of Alistair being the maid's kid?  Why are we arguing about it.  If she knew that he was just a subsitute because of Maric's elfen lovin' ways, why would she focus on the brother thing first.  Especially since she cared more about money than family. 

Thirdly:  Younger hero in fantasies is a horrible trend (totally ruins Song of Ice and Fire for me).  Luckily this game does not follow this and actually protrays people at realistic ages.  Our group is not a group of teenagers running around saving the world (a la Final Fantasy).  They are all at least in their mid-twenties (except for the dog).  

[tmp7704]

RazorNightngale wrote...

Thirdly:  Younger hero in fantasies is a horrible trend (totally ruins Song of Ice and Fire for me).  Luckily this game does not follow this and actually protrays people at realistic ages.  Our group is not a group of teenagers running around saving the world (a la Final Fantasy).  They are all at least in their mid-twenties

Females at least in their mid-twenties still remaining unmarried (or just about to get married) in medieval-based settings don't make it any more realistic, really.

[Imryll]

RazorNightngale wrote...
Secondly:  Why would she think it WAS the king's baby unless it actually was?  Unless Maric was the father wouldn't it make more sense for her to think that it was someone who lived in the castle?  If she was just throwing out accusations to make money, she probably would have blamed Eamon or Teagan since they were around um, everyday. 

Duncan approached the mother asking her to act as the mother of the king's baby in exchange for whatever benefits.  Mother agrees and tells Goldanna that the king is the father?

Family doesn't know who the father of the serving woman's baby was. After the death of the mother, Alastair is substuted for either stillborn baby or baby to be cared for elsewhere. Family, ignorant of any substitution, is offered compensation by Duncan.

One could come up with any number of scenarios.  I think the salient thing to keep in mind though is that Goldanna was a small child who wouldn't necessarily know or understand adult arrangements.  What she believed and the truth of the situation might or might not be the same.

[starwind99]

Adaptive gene's BRILLIANT!

[Taleroth]

RazorNightngale wrote...

Secondly:  Why would she think it WAS the king's baby unless it actually was?  Unless Maric was the father wouldn't it make more sense for her to think that it was someone who lived in the castle?

She thinks the maid's child was the king's because it was.  I'm not sure anyone's contesting that point.  The maid had a child to Maric, Fiona had a child to Maric.  Which one is Alistair?  The maid's child supposedly died with her, to note.

And doesn't having her known that Alistair is her brother support my point of Alistair being the maid's kid?

It only supports that Goldhanna believes Alistair is the maid's son, her brother.  Not necessarilly that he truly is.

[hankmurphy]

elves arent made up. they are in books and i saw one on tv.

[jinx01313]

The Angry One wrote...

Hizuka wrote...

Oh, and Angry One - the elf who explains it in The Calling says that that's why the elves stick to themselves in Alienages - so they don't get bred out of existance.

And yet when you have humans barging in and raping with impunity, this isn't going to be terribly feasable, is it?

If you want to argue the point, write David Gaider; it's his book.

David Gaider, despite the apparent views of some fanboys here, is not a god, and his books are not gospel.
The idea is inconsistant and illogical, and made up entirely to shoehorn Alistair into a specific origin.
To be brutally frank, subverting your own lore to squeeze in a particular plot point you decided later on is extremely lazy writing and something which, thankfully, I don't have to deal with in-game.

Or since elves and humans lived together in Arlanth (spelling?) they already cross bred and now only halfelves and humans are left so only humans are produced  from such a union? Or maybe elves actually created the human plague, that now threatens to wipe them out, by using some of their blood's immortal magic?  Yup all speculation, after all we are talking about a world of magic one where DNA does not apply.

If thats the plot killer for you then what can I say?  Don't watch any Michael Bay movies. 

Modifié par jinx01313, 04 décembre 2009 - 06:21 .

[RazorNightngale]

I'll admit, that I was wrong about the dates. It still makes the baby too young to be Alistair.



But still this whole conspiracy theory you all love is still so idiotic that I'm sure my forehehad is now flatten from all the head-desking. Really, do you all believe that moon landing was faked as well? The only connection I see is that people want to make Fiona's baby Alistair because it means give the ending of the Calling meaning into the game as it is.



I do believe that it will be relevant, just not currently. Because otherwise, why are they being so coy about the issue? If it was just as simple of Fiona being Alistair's mother why have Goldanna at all? Couldn't finding out the truth of him being a half-elf be his personal quest?



But then I'm finding this the same as arguing with people who believe that moon landing was faked or that Obama was actually born in Kenya. They love the conspiracy too much to actual see logic.

[Taleroth]

Because the moon landing and Obama are totally drive by the laws of narrative causality.

[jinx01313]

RazorNightngale wrote...

I'll admit, that I was wrong about the dates. It still makes the baby too young to be Alistair.

But still this whole conspiracy theory you all love is still so idiotic that I'm sure my forehehad is now flatten from all the head-desking. Really, do you all believe that moon landing was faked as well? The only connection I see is that people want to make Fiona's baby Alistair because it means give the ending of the Calling meaning into the game as it is.

I do believe that it will be relevant, just not currently. Because otherwise, why are they being so coy about the issue? If it was just as simple of Fiona being Alistair's mother why have Goldanna at all? Couldn't finding out the truth of him being a half-elf be his personal quest?

But then I'm finding this the same as arguing with people who believe that moon landing was faked or that Obama was actually born in Kenya. They love the conspiracy too much to actual see logic.

You really haven't investigated sixties technology nor have you reviewed the pictures from the moon landing!  Its all shot in the mojave desert at a place call the moon rocks. The same place they test drove the lunar landers. I mean the shadows are all wrong and we even lost contact with the "astronauts" because a plane was flying overhead. You can totally hear it. The whole one leap line was done on a sound stage for clarity. 

Then there is the evidence of martians, atlantis, the holy grail, and the fact that cheesepoofs cause people to resurrect after death hence all the zombie sightings in the last few years.

Oh and there is JFK and Rassputin and and and  

[Imryll]

RazorNightngale wrote...

But still this whole conspiracy theory you all love is still so idiotic that I'm sure my forehehad is now flatten from all the head-desking. Really, do you all believe that moon landing was faked as well? The only connection I see is that people want to make Fiona's baby Alistair because it means give the ending of the Calling meaning into the game as it is. 

Folks are speculating and testing the likelihood of different theories.  However, if you see looking at things differently than you do as necessarily idiotic--and this motivates you to injure your forehead and insult others--it may be a discussion in which you're happier not participating.  Any evidence you've uncovered from the books or games to support one view or another would be interesting. Obviously, as long as Bioware remains silent, the jury is still out.  Suggesting that folks must be the equivalent of flat earthers not to see things as you do just cuts off communication.