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[Shepard Wins]

BioWare pride themselves on the account of listening to their fans. I'd really, really like to believe that. They have proven to listen before (not necessarily in matters connected to the ME3 endings backlash).

So:

(EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION: Here is the beginning of the thread the quote below stems from: http://social.biowar...ndex/10750224/1 This thread contains several responses to the ending backlash by Mods Stanley Woo and John Epler. The one I've quoted below is just the one I felt was the most blatantly insulting.)

Shepard Wins wrote, in another thread:

Stanley Woo wrote...

Snakedude4life wrote...

But
who asked for this ending? What feedback showed you (or rather the
designers) that we wanted "space magic"? or a ending that can be summed
as "Red, Green or Blue"? Also, did the feedback show that people
who might want to import an ME1 Face would have problems?

I'm
sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they
would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and
every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

If
you wish to sum up the conclusion of a multi-part epic game series as
"Red, Green, and Blue," then feel free to. But please don't then
complain that the endings are oversimplified. You are the one who has
slapped that label onto it, not us.

(...)

Wow.
Just wow. I know this is a post from the beginning of the thread way
back, but I feel I have to address this. Mr Woo, pardon me, but what in
the name of all that's holy are you talking about? You're basically
saying people cannot fathom the endings. Accusing people of "summing up
the conclusion of a multi-part epic game as RGB" is just a really
polite way of saying "it's not our fault you're too stupid to
comprehend our artistic ending".

It's not our fault that the
endings are so ill-recieved. It's the fault of the team who created
those endings. There is a proverb in my native language (Polish) "Do
not turn the cat around by its tail". Do not blame others for what
you(BioWare) have done wrong. Well that's exactly what you did here, Mr
Woo. And it's insulting. And it really takes a lot of self control for
me to keep civil right now, as I have just been insulted. Again. (The
first insult was the ending - this is how I feel).

The endings
are being summarized as "RGB" because they are exactly that. I've
recently found an amazingly well done video that states exactly almost
everything that is wrong with the ending. Here it is:  .
Now, if you do listen to your fans at BioWare, this is a perfect
summary of why over 50 000 people (and that's just the number from the
Retake group on facebook) disliked the endings. I do believe you should
watch it. Yeah, I know it's almost 40 minutes long. But thanks to that
it's really detailed.

I also believe you should watch this  .
This is a reaction to the endings of one of the players. It's all
polite, no rage there. It was recorded by this player's brother with
what seems to be a camera he (the Player) was unaware of. He's just
confused and disappointed.

That's what this ending achieves.
Confusion and disappointment for thousands of people. These are not
singular cases, that's how majority of players reacted to the endings.

I'm
posting this, seeing you also post here, Mr Woo, and I do hope you read
this. But most of all I hope you see the videos I've linked. They
really say it all.

Here's the link: http://social.biowar...224/50#10763585

Sadly, this has remained unanswered and the thread was locked a few pages after that, with an explanation:

I think we have exhausted discussion on the original purpose of this thread. thank you for all the cool discussion, everyone.

End of line.

Well I am not exhausted yet. I was sincerely hoping to see Mr Woo, Mr Epler or other BioWare rep here on the boards to address this, seeing how much they've posted in the original thread. I especially wanted to bring their attention to two videos linked in my post quoted above. And I got disappointed.

I'm being stubborn here because I still feel insulted over this:

Stanley Woo wrote...

Snakedude4life wrote...

But
who asked for this ending? What feedback showed you (or rather the
designers) that we wanted "space magic"? or a ending that can be summed
as "Red, Green or Blue"? Also, did the feedback show that people
who might want to import an ME1 Face would have problems?

I'm
sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they
would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and
every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

If
you wish to sum up the conclusion of a multi-part epic game series as
"Red, Green, and Blue," then feel free to. But please don't then
complain that the endings are oversimplified. You are the one who has
slapped that label onto it, not us.

(...)

Why it's insulting I've stated above, in my own quoted post. This is not BioWare listening to their fans. This is BioWare treating their fans like idiots. Locking the original thread now feels even more like stonewalling. I can't really speak for everyone but I have not been listened to. I've been ignored.

So my request is, BioWare - watch those videos. Let us know you have. Just an acknowledgement would do right now, even if you disagree completely with what's in them. That wouldn't make people happy but it would prove you do listen.

Well.

Do you listen?

Modifié par Shepard Wins, 30 mars 2012 - 04:27 .

[Elyiia]

Since I imagine a Bioware employ is going to come here sooner or later, I'm going to sneak in a quick question.

Dear Bioware employee can you confirm or deny that a Hades Canon is a Reaper Destroyer with a turret on it's back? While it's alluded to that it is a Destroyer some confirmation would be nice

[Ozzyfan223]

yea, I have to agree. That post by Mr. Woo was out of line, no questions about it.

"I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals"

is essentially saying you are not one. Not good.

[Homey C-Dawg]

I find all the pre-release lying more insulting myself. But yes, the insistence by Bioware that we just don't "get it" is indeed insulting as well.

[count_4]

BioWare has indeed developed great skill in insulting players. They did it with probably every official statement as well as a lot of these unofficial ones.

They're too proud (and probably think all the praising reviews out there are actually honest) to see that they messed up.

[Kilshrek]

I think the first paragraph there wasn't meant to be malicious in any way. He's just saying that Bioware is looking to tell a story, and they can't do that by committee, although looking back they probably should have.

The second one, eh, it is RGB, really. It's not oversimplifying anything, in fact it's trying to overcomplicate a very straightforward ending. Everything blows up, and Shepard may or may not die. Nothing else is explained. I don't see how anyone can oversimplify something so patently simple.

[T1l]

That's probably one of Stanley Woo's less professional moments. Poor form.

[_Arkayne_]

"I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals"

Im really starting to get tired of all the self-praise from Bioware staff.

[Animositisomina]

Pretty sure bashing the employees is against the forum rules...

"Effective immediately there is a zero tolerance policy on any form of abuse towards staff, moderators or other Community members.

Anyone posting a personal attack on staff, moderators or other Community members will, at the sole discretion of staff or moderators, be banned from the BioWare Social Network without notice and is no longer welcomed."

Modifié par Animositisomina, 30 mars 2012 - 11:19 .

[mrgeth]

all this does is turn fans against the developer. When sales go through the floor you can thank lousy conclusions, decisions and comments such as mr woo's. BioWare you have made an utter mess of the whole ME3 situation.

[HenchxNarf]

Kind of in bad form to disrespect and insult BioWare's people who take time out of their lives to come talk to people, only to be attacked the moment they say anything at all. They put up with a lot from most people, and they're only human.

But, I guess that doesn't really matter to you, does it?

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 30 mars 2012 - 11:14 .

[EVL65R]

I'm sure you've seen the prerequisite requirement on the back if the disc case that you need an iq of 130+ to truely understand the depth, complexity and artistic integrity to the conclusion to the series.

But I'm only an electrician and audio visual installer. I don't go to art exhibits, listen to beatnik music or wear a beret. I do have a goatee though if that helps.

I understand your frustration. They helped us fall in love with the best sci fi universe of our generation, if nit ever. Getting reactions like this must show the developers how much we love and care for this series to see it end like that. Am I right? I've seen it written somewhere else, the bigger the love the bigger the heartbreak.

[Dridengx]

Shepard Wins wrote...
Well I am not exhausted yet.

Good for you? If Woo is tired he's tired of it.  You gonna force him to talk more about it? Way to look like an entitled gamer

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

"I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals"

is essentially saying you are not one. Not good.

Read the whole quote. He's saying Bioware has talented people with their own ideas they want in the game and not everything has to be passed through fan requests. It's their game.. How you can't understand this quote is scary... lol

Here, try again lol

I'm
sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they
would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and
every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

Modifié par Dridengx, 30 mars 2012 - 11:17 .

[KingKhan03]

lol apparently the bioware staff are all "beyond our comprehension".

[joe1852]

i thought that was a great response by him

[tjmax]

You know.. you can pick apart anyone out of anger. i think people hinging on every word and taking offence to everything being said is far beyond silly, and you wonder why they never say anything.

[Homey C-Dawg]

EVL65R wrote...
...the bigger the love the bigger the heartbreak.

Basically, yes. And Bioware's handling of the situation just makes it worse.

In Woo's defense though, he's just trying to run damage control. That post, as unprofessional as it is, shows clearly that he is annoyed by the ending backlash. On the other hand, that the game could make it to retail without most of the Bioware staff noticing that the fanbase would hate the ending, and even defending it when called on how bad it is, doesn't say much about how in touch with...reality Bioware is.

[JulienJaden]

Wow. Just wow...

I didn't know BioWare openly insulted us. With the Muzyka statement, at least they tried (to some degree) to not be openly insulting. THIS, however, is great public relations right there. Great Job, Mr Woo.

For the record, I am a creative individual. I write stories myself.
And you know what I tell you, not as a fan but as a writer?
The ending is GARBAGE.

You are right that "RGB" puts an incorrect label on it: It assumes that it's a simple ending that makes sense and just has so little variation, other than color, but is otherwise sound.
And that is not the case. It is broken. It is horrificly bad writing, to the point where I have to believe that either whoever wrote it up doesn't deserve to be called a writer because it is worse and makes far less sense then the first stuff I ever wrote (and that's saying a lot) OR said person had to write it at gun point, being ordered to "write the most incoherent, senseless crap you can think of".

If you want to know about my creativity, send me a PM or an email. Ask me for alternative ending. I will write one. I'm willing to give you more feedback, as I have done for the past few weeks.

But for f*ck's sake, stop being so damn arrogant. You guys f*cked up, and big. No matter if it was under time pressure or because everybody was really drunk at the time, you messed this up, and you should come out and admit it, because this is your fault, and the only thing you're achieving by stonewalling and insulting us is draining my civility and goodwill.

[lasertank]

Bump this.

[Tracido]

Ehem, I too understood what he meant, and anyway he's always been a bit touchy. How quickly people forget how he defended Bioware's CHOICE, to censor every game.

Yet, when it came down to it (a brave poster calling the whole bs out), he finally admitted it was certainly 'possibly' more about those at the top being too scared to NOT censor content.

I don't blame him sometimes, but it's easy to see when he says something and take it out of context. He's human, and I'm sure Bioware gets enough crap from their publisher, it's probably frustrating getting it from both ends, and as I said he's human.

A human who's never finished the 3 ME games and wants to be paid to do so, still found that comment by him funny...

Modifié par Tracido, 30 mars 2012 - 11:29 .

[Dridengx]

count_4 wrote...

BioWare has indeed developed great skill in insulting players. .

I didn't see one insult but then again you guys are known to cry about everything

[Krevex]

       THIS HURTS ME

Modifié par Krevex, 30 mars 2012 - 11:31 .

[Aulis Vaara]

Dridengx wrote...

Read the whole quote. He's saying Bioware has talented people with their own ideas they want in the game and not everything has to be passed through fan requests. It's their game.. How you can't understand this quote is scary... lol

Here, try again lol

I'm
sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they
would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and
every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

You tell people to read the whole quote and then proceed to quote half of it. Well done, sir, well done indeed.